Anyone Have A VHF Antenna On A 22C? [Archive]

Carl C

04-23-2008, 06:10 PM

Have you considered a good hand held unit? (no need for mounting an antennae...)

Budmann was kind enough to buy me a hand held VHF for our Okeechobee trip and it worked great.

If you're traveling far enough offshore or out of range of land / other vessels, a dash mounted unit with associated antennae is a good idea.... I get out on Lake Huron a few times a year and will be venturing further & further as I get used to it. I have unlimited freshwater towing coverage but would need to contact TowBoatUS if needed or Coast Guard in an emergency. I also like to listen to other boaters. I've been relying on a handheld and extra batteries for emergencies but it doesn't pick up much on Lake Huron or even St. Clair. I suspect the transmitting range is pretty limited @ 5 watts too. The setup I'm looking at would only cost about $300.

MOP

04-23-2008, 07:30 PM

Carl a loaded can type antenna like you see on sail boat masts will transmit quite ways even mounted very low, that may be an option. I did a fair amount of offshore sail boat racing, I know the can type will give a solid signal of 15-20 miles mounted low on the transom and way farther at mast height. I always transom mounted my VHF antennas for the possible event of being rolled or pitch poled, you can get hit with some big stuff in the middle of the night and never see it coming.

RedDog

04-24-2008, 07:33 AM

On the 18 I use to have the antenna was mounted on the side grab rail. The radio was on the c**kpit floor in the front center.

MOP

04-24-2008, 08:14 AM

RedDog is running the can style I am speaking of, I am sure he will say range is very good. The rail mounts can be a fairly quick removal item if you want to stash it at times.

Phil

BlownCrewCab

04-24-2008, 08:50 AM

You can get a good suction cup mount and only put it up when you want to use it, other times it can be suctioned to the ski locker for storage.

BUIZILLA

04-24-2008, 08:54 AM

a good 30" base loaded whip will reach out about 3-4 x available horizon view at deck level on a good day, or about 20-30 miles on open water... I had one of my old Icom M55's turned up by a local shop so the low side was 5 watt's, and the high side was about 10 watts.... that was a squawking fool, he also opened up 2 or 3 restricted Govt channel's...

on_plane

04-24-2008, 11:27 AM

Here are a few pictures of an antenna on our 22c, I know for a fact that this was a factory install.

Interesting fact on this boat also is that it is known to be 'the' very last boat built under Donzi's Chislolm era, it is an 85.

Paul

Carl C

04-24-2008, 12:19 PM

On plane, I can't see your mount in those pics but what is that behind the bow light? Mop, the only can types I "can" find are only 3db. Buizilla, Lake Huron is lonely on week-days and 20-30 miles may not be enough to hear much, although the Coasties could no doubt hear me. I don't have any type of rail to mount to but maybe I can modify a rail mount to clamp to the rear lifting eye. I don't think a suction cup type would work well for me. I'd like to put the antenna on and leave it on for big water outings. Suction cup would no doubt come off running in rough water.

Air 22

04-24-2008, 12:38 PM

As a Coastie..I know we can hear ya..!:wink: Its guys like you that keep us busy:doh:...:hangum::smash:...lol..just kidding:wink:

You could try mounting a Stainless or Nylon swivel mount on the floor or down below window..port side..left of front pass seat...this allows a 5-6 ft fiberglass or stainless antenna to be locked into position "up" while running and then folded back down when not in use...I've seen this on a few boats..:wink:

on_plane

04-24-2008, 01:34 PM

The mount is bolted right in front of the railing on the starboard side. Has a lever that you can lock in any number of positions like a ratchet..sorry the pics arent clearer of the mount.

I think it looks goo and does not take away form the boat. It has a box on the passenger side footwell that has some elctronics in it, then there is a connector that comes up through the glove box wheree you attach a hand held I believe, then it goes through the large antenna via the box.

The thing on the bow is a light that rises up for docking. Its fun top play with, kids like it.

Carl C

04-24-2008, 04:34 PM

I appreciate the info. Since I don't have a rail, I'm leaning toward a stern mount if I can find one with enough set-back to clear the rub rail. I could handle drilling holes back there but not on the deck. I suppose I'll just run the cable out the engine room vent. Obviously the boat pics don't show a mount, just a bracket to show the idea.

on_plane

04-24-2008, 08:25 PM

yep, that's the same exact mount.

Carl C

04-24-2008, 09:21 PM

VHF is line of sight, which means the waves do not follow the earths curvature... Your antenna must see the receiving antenna in order for it to work, which is one reason the Coasties have theirs mounted WAYYYY high.... A loaded can type antenna can emulate the output "power" of a 1/2 or full wave whip, but in the end length counts..Yeah, I think if I'm gonna bother then I want at least an 8' 6db antenna. I need to go look at the mounts and see if they will clear. A jury rigged mount isn't gonna hold up the way I drive.

Air 22

04-24-2008, 11:44 PM

Like Poodle said "its the length that counts..."Lol:) and she agree's too...:):)....lol

BUIZILLA

04-25-2008, 06:21 AM

C, if ya mount i on the stern you cannot lay it flat.. Of course, if you paint it flourescent red you can lay it flat out behind the boat to fend off those folks that want to rear-end your boat.. that way it can do double duty as a curb or dock feeler... :pizza:

boxy

04-25-2008, 06:31 AM

C, if ya mount i on the stern you cannot lay it flat.. Of course, if you paint it flourescent red you can lay it flat out behind the boat to fend off those folks that want to rear-end your boat..
.... or tie a racoon tail to it, and bend it forward to the the front lifting eye, sort of like a reverse CB antenna :D

boxy

04-25-2008, 06:34 AM

Yeah, I think if I'm gonna bother then I want at least an 8' 6db antenna. I need to go look at the mounts and see if they will clear. A jury rigged mount isn't gonna hold up the way I drive.
Carl, if it is just going to be used for safety, in case something breaks, why not just use a suction mount. Tuck everything away while you are running, and if you ever need it, toss it up on the deck, and call whom ever you need.....

RedDog

04-25-2008, 07:03 AM

Carl, if it is just going to be used for safety, in case something breaks, why not just use a suction mount. Tuck everything away while you are running, and if you ever need it, toss it up on the deck, and call whom ever you need.....

I agree -

or use a cell phone

VetteLT193

04-25-2008, 07:36 AM

My brother's 22 has a screw in antenna mount. Basically you can stow it and pop it in when you want to. In the pic attached, the first thing on the deck is the light mount, 2nd is VHF antenna mount minus the antenna. it takes about 10 seconds to screw in.

My Minx had an antenna on each side of the windshield bolted in the same place where On Plane's is. They are gone now because they were in the way... that spot is the perfect spot to put your foot on the way up to the bow, with the antenna there it made getting up to the front even harder.

I like the idea of those new suction cup mounts that are out though... they were on Ship Shape TV on the last episode and hold very well (I think I remember 50 pounds)

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=31856&d=1190818186

Carl C

04-25-2008, 07:44 AM

that way it can do double duty as a curb or dock feeler... :pizza: Or maybe a grounding strap. I don't want it just for emergencies, I have the hh for that now. I like to put the hh on scan and listen to other boaters and ships while not running. It doesn't pick up much though and goes through batteries:(. When I'm terrorizing (:wink:) Lake Oakland I can remove it and tuck the coax into the engine comp. Does an 8' antenna whip around a lot? Would it need to be tied or laid down somehow when running rough water?:confused: BTW I'm really paranoid about being rear-ended again the way people drive now.:eek!: Vette, just saw your pic. I made some mods to my boat but don't have the heart to drill holes in the deck. I don't think I'd want an antenna there in my line of site anyway but thanks for sharing.

Air 22

04-25-2008, 09:04 AM

Carl C

04-25-2008, 10:17 AM

The easiest thing to do..keep a roll of aluminum foil handy...when u need to make a "Call" wrap yourself in the foil head to toe..hold your arms out straight for a strong signal speaker in left hand mike in right hand left toe on positve battery terminal right toe on negative terminal. Wait u may need to cross your toes..anyway.. Stand straight and wail away...this technique has been know to work 100+ miles..:):):) Kind of like being tased?:tase: I'm pretty much decided on mounting an 8' 6db antenna on the stern and running the coax through the engine comp vent. The only thing I'm wondering now is will an 8' antenna whip around a lot in rough water? I'll post pics when done.

VetteLT193

04-25-2008, 10:26 AM

Carl C

04-25-2008, 10:59 AM

http://www.seasucker.com/

it looks like they hold over 200 pounds based on the web site. you might be able to just suction cup it on the stern, which would give you extra clearance to get past the rub rail too. But it hasn't passed the CC driving test!:smash::eek!: It would just really suck if it came off while running and I'd be out an expensive antenna. A lot of the antennas cost more than the radios! And, like I said, I want to leave it on and not just have it for emergencies.

Air 22

04-25-2008, 11:09 AM

2 words..Sat Phone..:cool::yes::thumbsup::drive::beer:

Carl C

04-25-2008, 11:19 AM

Carl,

No pictures please, I think the board might crash..

think a minute.. It's a 8' fiberglass pole, of freekin course it's gonna whip around.. Mounted on the stern you can't lay it down, you going to tow with it up also? Lets not even contemplate what happens when the ratchet mount retaining bolt loosesn and it falls and drags behind the boat in the water, or down the road..

Mount it on the deck in the stern. PROPERLY route the cable through the deck not through the vent like a total rube. Have it lay forward with the tip up by the ****pit in an antenna receiver clip. Your done.. Hehehe, he said ****pit. Just when I thought I had it figured out I'm back to square one. I don't think I can bring myself to drilling those holes. Will you come up and do it for me?

Air 22

04-25-2008, 11:24 AM

No place for the coon tail :) :) ;) ;)
Anonymous

:doh: Sorry what was I thinking:nilly::nilly::blub::screwy:

Cuda

04-25-2008, 12:16 PM

Personally, there's no way I'd put a whip antenna on a 22. I had one on my 302 Formula, and never once raised it upl I'm sure a handhelf would suffice. Even if you can't reach a land based station, you'd probably be able to raise a vessel that does have the means to contact a shore station for you. I've been 150 miles out in the Gulf at night, and you can see lights of other boats all over the place.

VetteLT193

04-25-2008, 12:38 PM

But it hasn't passed the CC driving test!:smash::eek!: It would just really suck if it came off while running and I'd be out an expensive antenna. A lot of the antennas cost more than the radios! And, like I said, I want to leave it on and not just have it for emergencies.

I just wanted to suggest it at least... I know from many boats over the years that no matter where you mount a damn antenna it will be in the way, up or down, and cause you problems.

If you mount it on the stern like you show in the picture it will be in the way when you dock (think about the lines and getting around it). on the sides, in the way to get to the bow. On the bow, it's in your line of sight.

The best place for an antenna is on a hard top, then they are a pain to lay down. On big sportfishing boats they are on the sides with side mounts to the hard top... ok location until you are in 16 footers and a mount breaks and my fat butt is hanging off the side in huge rollers trying to rope lash it back on.

Needless to say, I don't like antennas and I don't think they like me either:nilly:

Carl C

04-25-2008, 01:13 PM

Cuda

04-25-2008, 02:20 PM

I had a suction cup one on my fishboat. It sucked. I have a fixed 8 footer on it now, but it's not my Donzi. :)

DonziJon

04-25-2008, 02:46 PM

Back in the day, the FCC REQUIRED a "Station Licence" for the boat with FCC assigned call letters..like "WYQ7432", and there was a certain protocol required to use the radio, as well as an FCC "VHF Radio Operators Licence". The Operators Licence may NOT be required anymore but I susspect the "Station Licence" still is. It's just a matter of filling out the forms and...I think..mailing it in.

My VHF experience has been (with a sailboat with a 46' mast and a loaded SS Wire antenna (30") mounted on top. This gave a range of usually NO More than 40 miles when talking to another sailboat with a similar antenna height above water.

The TWO factors that count most, when it comes to VHF range, is the Quality of the radio, AND.. the Height of the antenna above water.....in That Order.

My first VHF ("Modar") costing just over $1000 gave me "about" 40 miles. The second radio ("Horizon Standard") at around $250 gave me about 25 miles at best. Again, this is with the antenna 40 plus feet above the water.

I have a friend who has a 47' offshore sailboat, and a "Lake" Amphibian Seaplane. In both cases he has "Icom" radios. Maybe THE Best.:smash:

VetteLT193

04-25-2008, 03:08 PM

Vette, the suction cup mount is looking better all the time. I thought about it and I'm not going to mount a permanent antenna or bracket on the deck. I just don't want to clutter the sexy looks of the boat. I just got the new Overton's catalog a half hour ago and there is a nice set-up that will get me going cheap. Maybe this with a suction cup mount will work. Speaking of work, I've gotta go!

Try to find the ship shape TV with the sea-suckers I listed earlier... they looked really good on the show.

I had a suction cup one on my fishboat. It sucked. I have a fixed 8 footer on it now, but it's not my Donzi. :)

Cuda, did your suction cup mount have the air pump to suck out all the air like the sea suckers or was it a traditional suction cup that just sticks on and you hope for the best?

Back in the day, the FCC REQUIRED a "Station Licence" for the boat with FCC assigned call letters..like "WYQ7432", and there was a certain protocol required to use the radio, as well as an FCC "VHF Radio Operators Licence". The Operators Licence may NOT be required anymore but I susspect the "Station Licence" still is. It's just a matter of filling out the forms and...I think..mailing it in.
My VHF experience has been (with a sailboat with a 46' mast and a loaded SS Wire antenna (30") mounted on top. This gave a range of usually NO More than 40 miles when talking to another sailboat with a similar antenna height above water.
The TWO factors that count most, when it comes to VHF range, is the Quality of the radio, AND.. the Height of the antenna above water.....in That Order.
My first VHF ("Modar") costing just over $1000 gave me "about" 40 miles. The second radio ("Horizon Standard") at around $250 gave me about 25 miles at best. Again, this is with the antenna 40 plus feet above the water.
I have a friend who has a 47' offshore sailboat, and a "Lake" Amphibian Seaplane. In both cases he has "Icom" radios. Maybe THE Best.:smash:

They dropped all the licensing back in the 80's I think.

I've used standard and Icom for years. I can't tell a difference in quality or performance but I can't say I ever truly compared them. In the bigger boats we had one of each... Icom as the main radio on the bridge, Standard on the tower or in the cabin. Icom has always had the better name, although I've had a standard handheld for years and it still works well today.

BUIZILLA

04-25-2008, 03:09 PM

why don't you just solder the radio wire to the rubrail, that should be good for about a 52' antenna...

kinda like the alien spaceships use, you never seen a whip antenna with a coon tail on those right?

MOP

04-25-2008, 03:59 PM

DonziJon

04-25-2008, 06:22 PM

With an 8 footer the biggest issue will be the mount & substantial mounting, you are talking about a baby out rigger. If you through bolt it to the deck you will need one heck of a big backing plate glued to the under side, an 8 footer will induce some maxi flex in a chop! I like a few up here have rigged more then my fair share of offshore fishing boats, if you don't do a bang up job you will regret an 8 footer.

This is ABSOLUTLY True. An 8' whip is stressfull to the mounting area and requires large bolts, holes, and backing plates.

SO: Carl C: What do you do? Drill BIG Holes? Nah. I would FORGET the VHF Radio idea and save your money. Your engine will be perfectly reliable with "Minimal" maintence. It will get you there. Got a cell phone? Close enough. I don't even have that..... and I trust my engine. Have you been stuck out yet???:nilly:

The last time I checked..that was awhile ago: A "Satalite Phone" costs BIG bucks and requires a subscribtion. VERY expensive.:bonk:

Cuda

04-25-2008, 06:55 PM

My suction type was just a plain suction cup. That was one of the problems. With it stored away, the suction cup would dry out, and get dirty.

mjw930

04-25-2008, 07:18 PM

I think Joe's talking about this

http://www.shakespeare-marine.com/images/main/5911.jpg

I don't see that having any significant value with a handheld but the previous owner of my boat had that with a radio mounted under the dash. That came out on the first weekend I owned the boat.

The SeaSuckers are a lot more powerful but I suspect it's still not up to the task of an 8' antenna.

Tony

04-25-2008, 08:50 PM

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=31856&d=1190818186

Vette, no offense meant, but the screw-in antenna mount is a disaster waiting to happen. (Unless your brother has a rounded cap, like a shift know, then...disregard my concerns.)

My buddy slipped off the edge of his deck and impaled his ankle with a rounded, dull cleat. Pierced the skin and did some decent damage. I wouldn't have thought it could happen...

:beer:

Carl C

04-25-2008, 09:08 PM

I had a suction cup one on my fishboat. It sucked. :):):) Aren't suction cups supposed to suck?:wink:

The TWO factors that count most, when it comes to VHF range, is the Quality of the radio, AND.. the Height of the antenna above water.....in That Order.

So a cheap radio will have poor range even though it is 25 watts? What specs should I look for? I want a base radio because I like to listen to it. When we were watching the poker run a while ago at Lake Michigan I could listen to everyone talking and I knew what was going on. I'm not going to drill holes or mount anything permanent on the deck. I didn't know antennas had to be laid down when running so the stern mount is out:(. The new suction cup mount might work at least for now but what a pain to take the antenna up and down all the time. At least I have plenty of space to stow it.

Buizilla - you are crazy:screwy:

What a front stowage area on a 22C should look like:

MOP

04-25-2008, 09:45 PM

Carl get yourself a good Icom hand held, that and your cell and you are home free. No need for big holes in your boat!

Carl C

04-25-2008, 10:19 PM

I have a Humminbird hh but it gobbles up batteries 8 at a time.........however I looked at it and the battery case slides off and there are 2 screw terminals where I could hook up a cig lighter plug and cord. It is 12 volts with the 8 AA bats. I guess I need to think about it. I'll be busy for a few days anyway.

Carl C

04-25-2008, 10:33 PM

I just found a source that sells a cig lighter adapter that replaces the battery pack on my Humminbird handheld. Maybe I'll just try that for a while. I appreciate all the help since I didn't know anything about antennas and mounts. A big original concern was if I could rely on a hh in an emergency and it seems that most think I can.

RedDog

04-26-2008, 08:58 AM

My icom handheld has a Li Ion battery - rechargable. It holds a charge forever it seems.

I have turned in on or charged it since last summer. Just checked and it has a full charge

Carl C

04-26-2008, 05:33 PM

My icom handheld has a Li Ion battery - rechargable. It holds a charge forever it seems.

I have turned in on or charged it since last summer. Just checked and it has a full charge It looks like they all do now. My model (VHF5) has been discontinued. I'm going to try to order the power adapter and if not available I'll make my own and then I'll see if this is good enough before getting a fixed mount radio. I'm not going to mount a permanent antenna on the best looking 22C around. (no, I'm not biased:wink:) (yes, the house needs paint)

MOP

04-26-2008, 05:57 PM

My Icom is an oldie an IC M5 I get about 5 or 6 trips out of it before it needs charging. I found a trick with mine I turn the squelch until it cut the signal then back it down about 1/4 turn and leave it, when the battery is getting low the squelch starts cutting in and which gives me fair warning of it getting low.

Phil

Cuda

04-26-2008, 06:10 PM

:):):) Aren't suction cups supposed to suck?:wink:

How did I know that response was coming?

DonziJon

04-26-2008, 07:09 PM

Lake Michigan is BIG Water. :doh:

VetteLT193

04-27-2008, 05:37 PM

:):):) Aren't suction cups supposed to suck?:wink:

So a cheap radio will have poor range even though it is 25 watts? What specs should I look for? I want a base radio because I like to listen to it. When we were watching the poker run a while ago at Lake Michigan I could listen to everyone talking and I knew what was going on. I'm not going to drill holes or mount anything permanent on the deck. I didn't know antennas had to be laid down when running so the stern mount is out:(. The new suction cup mount might work at least for now but what a pain to take the antenna up and down all the time. At least I have plenty of space to stow it.

Buizilla - you are crazy:screwy:

What a front stowage area on a 22C should look like:

The wattage doesn't have anything to do with reception, only sending. You may want to just pick up a new handheld... I just saw an Icom for about $160 that has a LiIon battery and 8 hours run time...

Carl C

04-27-2008, 07:47 PM

Mine may be out-dated but it's yellow. I'm gonna try the cig lighter power plug adapter (the boat has the power plug). you all helped me decide against a fixed radio for now.

VetteLT193

04-28-2008, 12:51 AM

Mine may be out-dated but it's yellow. I'm gonna try the cig lighter power plug adapter (the boat has the power plug). you all helped me decide against a fixed radio for now.

Here's a new Icom in yellow in case that doesn't work:wink:

http://www.icomamerica.com/en/products/marine/handhelds/gm1600/default.aspx

mjw930

04-28-2008, 08:58 AM

It looks like they all do now. My model (VHF5) has been discontinued. I'm going to try to order the power adapter and if not available I'll make my own and then I'll see if this is good enough before getting a fixed mount radio. I'm not going to mount a permanent antenna on the best looking 22C around. (no, I'm not biased:wink:) (yes, the house needs paint)

Now there's a man with his priorities. Beautiful boat and a house in need of TLC :cool:

BaldEagle

05-02-2008, 10:17 AM

Carl, I have a VHF and 8' antenna on my AE. I've relocated the VHF and changed the antenna mounting. The location of the antenna is the same.

http://www.drop.io/AEHullNo2/login
password: AE2

Carl C

05-02-2008, 12:48 PM

Thanks, Baldeagle. I didn't think about mounting it inside the air dam. That looks more like a 3 footer in the pic though. Other things have come up here though, like the need to spend more $ on a better radio. I'll look at your link better later, right now getting ready for work.

Carl C

05-26-2008, 07:37 AM

Mine may be out-dated but it's yellow. I'm gonna try the cig lighter power plug adapter (the boat has the power plug). you all helped me decide against a fixed radio for now. I modified my battery pack and soldered in a length of wire and cig lighter plug. I plugged it in to try it and it didn't work. I reversed the polarity and fried the radio so now I must decide on a fixed mount radio with a short antenna or a new handheld.:(

Carl C

05-26-2008, 10:31 AM

I modified my battery pack and soldered in a length of wire and cig lighter plug. I plugged it in to try it and it didn't work. I reversed the polarity and fried the radio so now I must decide on a fixed mount radio with a short antenna or a new handheld.:( Nevermind, I just bought a new handheld at Bass Pro Shops (yup, they're open today). It has rechargable batteries and a cig lighter adapter so I won't get caught with dead batteries. I almost brought home a Lowrance M68C chartplotter too. Very impressive unit for $400 and programmed with Great Lakes and inland lakes. The only problem is where do I put it.