View Full Version : Performance of 16 with various engines
Scolo9
03-30-2008, 01:58 AM
What is the performance difference on the 16 between a stock 4.3 ltr and stock 5.0 ltr. What are the advantages and disadvantages of each. Thanks :smash:
The Hedgehog
03-30-2008, 10:15 AM
If you are going 4 bbl to 4 bbl, not much in speed. The v-6 feels lighter. The V-8 is heavier but has a better sound with through hull tips.
Once you get into mods, that opens up a whole new discussion.
If you ever decide to upgrade a 5.0 you have many more options to chose vs. the 4.3.
BigGrizzly
03-30-2008, 10:46 AM
Remember 250 horse power at the shaft is the same regardless of engine configuration. The difference is weight and distribution. If you have a heavy load the 5.0 will do better in speed and fuel economy. There is NO substitute for cub displacement. If I€ had a 16 with a 4.3 in this day and age with fuel prices I would leave it. However if i wanted to upgrade I would go to a 350 and not stop at 5.0. The size and weight is the same. I feel that 4 hours on the water at 50 beats 2 hours at 70. It thing with me is on the water moving beats sitting on the water not moving, unless you are hanging out with a bunch of Donzi-ites swapping stories and enjoying the company.
The Hedgehog
03-30-2008, 11:28 AM
The 4.3 is plenty upgradeable. You just need to do a little homework (not much though). You can do the exact same thing with both. Remember, a 4.3 is 3/4 a 350. Actually, I would like to know what upgrades are available for a 5.0 that you can't do to a 4.3.
I am with Grizz on the whole "no need to stop at 5.0 when you can have a 350" concept.
f_inscreenname
03-30-2008, 02:52 PM
Just remember before you do anything make sure your drive is up to it. 4's, 6's and 8's are all diffrent. If you are doing all that you might as well go BBC.http://www.supernova19.com/forumcw/Smileys/classic/checkeredflag.gif (javascript:void(0);)
No one said anything about "what upgrades are available for a 5.0 that you can't do to a 4.3" the key word is options when doing upgrades. Take a look at any manufacture and or reseller of after market performance parts and I think you will find more options for small blocks. By that I mean more options in the way of heads, cams, intakes ect for V8's.
At the the end of the day you need to decide what you want the boat to do now and maybe in the future. What ever you do I think you'll have fun with either set up and that's a fact :wink:.
The Hedgehog
03-30-2008, 03:41 PM
No one said anything about "what upgrades are available for a 5.0 that you can't do to a 4.3" the key word is options when doing upgrades. Take a look at any manufacture and or reseller of after market performance parts and I think you will find more options for small blocks. By that I mean more options in the way of heads, cams, intakes ect for V8's.
At the the end of the day you need to decide what you want the boat to do now and maybe in the future. What ever you do I think you'll have fun with either set up and that's a fact :wink:.
Pretty much the only limiting option is intake. You have to go with an Edelbrock performer there. Yes, if you want to buy alum heads, you have fewer options. Or you could always just port the ones you have. Now if only SM made some nice dry risers for a V-6 you could get a little crazier with the cam too:wink:
Now if Sam here would part with that nice alpha SS setup he has, I could show you what a 4.3 in a 16 can really do!:shocking:
If you want a good setup with the best resale and a good sound, get the V-8. That does not mean that you should shy away from a 4.3 if the price is right. You can have mega fun either way. I do agree with Sam that you will have to do a little less homework with a V-8. We chose to do a 6 because not many have taken it to the limit. We still have a good way to go.
Hedgehog, bring that bad boy to AOTH and let's play. I'm starting to have a size complex :eek: based on all the 22's that show up for the event. I'd love to have some company. If your serious about the SS let me know. I'm not interested in selling mine but I see them from time to time. I just saw a couple of them on Craig's list................should have bought them :bonk:.
Sam
The Hedgehog
03-30-2008, 05:48 PM
Hedgehog, bring that bad boy to AOTH and let's play. I'm starting to have a size complex :eek: based on all the 22's that show up for the event. I'd love to have some company. If your serious about the SS let me know. I'm not interested in selling mine but I see them from time to time. I just saw a couple of them on Craig's list................should have bought them :bonk:.
Sam
I wish we could bring the 16 to AOTH. We will bring the 26ZX and possibly the X-18.
My father (the owner of the 16)will be coming along. I am thinking that AOTH will be enough to get him amped to let me finish the 16. I would love to see it with an alpha SS and hydraulic steering. That would be the ticket. The time will come and I will be giving you a shout. Thanks
Ok, sounds good................see ya in May :yes:
smokediver
03-30-2008, 07:54 PM
in my 16 i had a 4.3 w/ a 2bbl vortec heads , put a 4bbl manifold on it and picked up 3 mph ... I then had a 5.7 with a 2bbl picked up another 4 mph ... then i put on a air-gap manifold and picked up another4 mph , so i was at the 65 mph mark or so ... then i put in a 430 horse 383 ... picked up anothe 8 mph or so ... rootsy did his right ... a higher revving 350 with an alpha ss i think is the ticket in a 16 ... That 383 just had too much torque down low and was a real alpha drive breaker ... i went thru 4 upper gear sets ... although the last HD gear set is lasting .... or so i think ... i sold it ... If i had to do it all over again .... i would have left the darn thing alone ... Poodle warned me , lol ....
The Hedgehog
03-30-2008, 08:08 PM
in my 16 i had a 4.3 w/ a 2bbl vortec heads , put a 4bbl manifold on it and picked up 3 mph ... I then had a 5.7 with a 2bbl picked up another 4 mph ... then i put on a air-gap manifold and picked up another4 mph , so i was at the 65 mph mark or so ... then i put in a 430 horse 383 ... picked up anothe 8 mph or so ... rootsy did his right ... a higher revving 350 with an alpha ss i think is the ticket in a 16 ... That 383 just had too much torque down low and was a real alpha drive breaker ... i went thru 4 upper gear sets ... although the last HD gear set is lasting .... or so i think ... i sold it ... If i had to do it all over again .... i would have left the darn thing alone ... Poodle warned me , lol ....
Wow, you have pretty much run the whole nine yards!
I am thinking that the aplha SS would be great with a blown V-6!
Wow, you have pretty much run the whole nine yards!
I am thinking that the aplha SS would be great with a blown V-6!
It is time someone slapped a BH on the back of a 16, that would eliminate all of the high speed handling issues it would ride on rails!
The Hedgehog
03-31-2008, 02:00 PM
It is time someone slapped a BH on the back of a 16, that would eliminate all of the high speed handling issues it would ride on rails!
Agreed. Would I have to raise the X dimension or could I just slap on a new transom assembly and the BH?
Frankly I would raise the X and bump the hatch high enough to clear the risers and air cleaner. I have had my eye on a 16 out by me, I asked and was allowed to look it over. It has terminal acne from being covered so long without any venting, bottom is great but deck and sides are shot.
The Hedgehog
03-31-2008, 02:59 PM
Frankly I would raise the X and bump the hatch high enough to clear the risers and air cleaner. I have had my eye on a 16 out by me, I asked and was allowed to look it over. It has terminal acne from being covered so long without any venting, bottom is great but deck and sides are shot.
And keep it light so the hook will be less of an issue. I think that would be cool
And keep it light so the hook will be less of an issue. I think that would be cool
Even with the hook the 16 has a lot of bow lift, to my thinking there is a tad more speed to be had on any late 16 by eliminating the hook.
The Hedgehog
03-31-2008, 03:47 PM
Even with the hook the 16 has a lot of bow lift, to my thinking there is a tad more speed to be had on any late 16 by eliminating the hook.
Have you ever measured how much glass needs to be removed to take out the hook?
I think that Ed Donnely has done this but I forgot to ask him.
Have you ever measured how much glass needs to be removed to take out the hook?
I think that Ed Donnely has done this but I forgot to ask him.
No thats Ed's department, I did lay a straight edge along the chine. I am a little surprised Donzi has not done away with it, I feel it adds to the porpoising that is so renowned on the 16 plus it has to scrub off a little speed.
BigGrizzly
03-31-2008, 06:27 PM
I have taken the hook out and put a Chevy in one DON't do it! we ended putting it back in. believe it or not the hook slowes the chine walking down. with out the hooks it heads to the sky every chance it gets. That was one of our worst ideas ever. not to mention its almost 1/2 inch to level it out.
smokediver
03-31-2008, 06:35 PM
I am with Griz on that .. The hook helps with handling .. The U-17 copy didn't have a hook ... and it had it's problems with taking off to the sky as evidence of its' short production run ... I think the blackhawk is a cool idea :yes: .. there is an awful lot of bow lift with the 16 ....
A 16 will break into the low 80's with a stock 300, Steve was close to that on his 18. He had mentioned that he may apply a little more juice to it not sure if he ever pursued it.
The Hedgehog
03-31-2008, 07:10 PM
I have taken the hook out and put a Chevy in one DON't do it! we ended putting it back in. believe it or not the hook slowes the chine walking down. with out the hooks it heads to the sky every chance it gets. That was one of our worst ideas ever. not to mention its almost 1/2 inch to level it out.
Wow, its good to know that
A 16 will break into the low 80's with a stock 300, Steve was close to that on his 18. He had mentioned that he may apply a little more juice to it not sure if he ever pursued it.
MOP, just curious when you say a "stock 300" what are you referring to ?
MOP, just curious when you say a "stock 300" what are you referring to ?
Steve has been running a stock 350 300hp in his BH-18, he comes close to 80. the 16 being lighter should break into the 80's easily.
Ahhhh, I guess I missed the BH part of the equation :wink: .
smbarcelow
04-01-2008, 02:23 PM
Before long, I’ll be able to weigh in with the results of my setup. (Spring can’t come to Michigan soon enough!) My ZZ4 crate engine is supposed to be good for around 350 HP. The boat’s still new to me and needs a bit of tuning. For example, the secondary accelerator pump is bound up; that should be a relatively easy fix. I got a GPS for Christmas, so I’ll be able to be accurate. ;)
Please do, your set up sounds interesting. Where in Mich are you located ?
smokediver
04-01-2008, 06:32 PM
I think the 16 hull is slower than the 18 hull ... the weight difference isn't that much ... power for power and drive for drive , the 18 is faster ... it takes about 400 horsepower to push a 16 70 mph ... i talked to the guy that put together the 18 with the blackhawk and they really did their homework ...
smbarcelow
04-01-2008, 08:37 PM
I'm in Clarksvile, Michigan (about half way between Grand Rapids and Lansing). We do most of our boating on Morrison Lake, which is a couple hundred yards from my house. I remember seeing Tony's red Ski Sporter out there numerous times.
As for the 16 hull being slower than the 18, many of the posts I've read here validate that theory. SOTP tells me I'm running somewhere around 60. I can probably put another 3-5 degrees of advance on the distributor and gain 100 or so RPM. It was 4 degrees retarded at baseline when I got it last August. I was using a very old timing light, so I've only been able to check baseline timing. I put it at 8 degrees advanced per the book, which is pretty conservative. Talk about a night and day difference! I'd be happy to be north of 65 with this setup once she's running well. My father has an 18' Checkmate with a W30 455 Olds turning a Jacuzzi low pressure pump. That boat weighs about 1850 soaking wet. I need to make sure I don't get dusted too badly once he finishes his resto and drops her back in. I've got my work cut out for me. ;)
I think the 16 hull is slower than the 18 hull ... the weight difference isn't that much ... power for power and drive for drive , the 18 is faster ... it takes about 400 horsepower to push a 16 70 mph ... i talked to the guy that put together the 18 with the blackhawk and they really did their homework ...
I agree 100% :yes:
Don't worry to much about base timing, it is top timing that will give you your best results. 32-34 is pretty average although I know two guys running a few degrees higher, one has aluminum heads and is at 38 running high test still a bit spooky for my taste.
HIGH LIFE
04-01-2008, 09:22 PM
I have the opportunity of buying a 16' Donzi. I want to put a bracket w/ a 225 h.p. o/b on it, any commentes?? HIGH LIFE
smbarcelow
04-02-2008, 08:01 AM
I was planning full advance to be somewhere around 34 degrees. I need to buy a programmable timing light so I can set it. I’ve been running 92 octane, but it would be nice to be able to get away with an occasional tank of 87 given the cost of fuel. I’d rather keep timing in the safe range and maybe give up a couple RPM.
I was planning full advance to be somewhere around 34 degrees. I need to buy a programmable timing light so I can set it. I’ve been running 92 octane, but it would be nice to be able to get away with an occasional tank of 87 given the cost of fuel. I’d rather keep timing in the safe range and maybe give up a couple RPM.
What's your compression ratio ?
smbarcelow
04-02-2008, 10:30 AM
I don’t have the specs for my particular ZZ4 (couple years old), but current model specs are 10 to 1.
Schnoogie
04-12-2008, 03:47 PM
Sorry folks there isn't any subsitute for cu. inches, it all depends how you configure it. Most of the time it oinly takes more money.
U all know what boat means: break out another another nthousand.
Hope to make the LG event, coming from Jersey looks like fun.
Greg
smbarcelow
04-14-2008, 09:38 AM
Sorry folks there isn't any subsitute for cu. inches
Agreed!
smbarcelow
06-18-2008, 08:58 PM
I FINALLY got the opportunity to check top speed with my GPS. (Due to a boat lift project that took longer than expected, the boat didn't go in until this past weekend.) Anyway, on still water with ambient temp somewhere around 65 degrees, I managed 56 MPH. I got the same result after my wife and son were out of the boat. She was riding pretty flat. I think I might try setting the trim a notch higher. (I've got a Volvo 270 without power trim.) I also think a little chop would help. Not a bad starting point, though.
Rootsy
06-19-2008, 07:31 AM
in my 16 i had a 4.3 w/ a 2bbl vortec heads , put a 4bbl manifold on it and picked up 3 mph ... I then had a 5.7 with a 2bbl picked up another 4 mph ... then i put on a air-gap manifold and picked up another4 mph , so i was at the 65 mph mark or so ... then i put in a 430 horse 383 ... picked up anothe 8 mph or so ... rootsy did his right ... a higher revving 350 with an alpha ss i think is the ticket in a 16 ... That 383 just had too much torque down low and was a real alpha drive breaker ... i went thru 4 upper gear sets ... although the last HD gear set is lasting .... or so i think ... i sold it ... If i had to do it all over again .... i would have left the darn thing alone ... Poodle warned me , lol ....
I don't know how "right" I did anything... I seem to remember eating a few teeth in the SS Upper, put it back together, made one lap and put a tooth of the lower pinion right through the side of the gearcase... Rebuilding that lower was a real experience to say the least...
But she did run :)
The SS is the way to go on the 16... At least that's my opinion... your mileage may vary.
BigGrizzly
06-19-2008, 09:38 AM
This is not a sales pitch, but your boat needs one of my props. If your running an old aluminum prop handling sucks. and a Ultra has too much slip. Check some of the forums or talk to people who tried them. There was a good post on Donzi.org about them. I won't go into the design of it now but look it up. 32 out and no complains just praise.
smbarcelow
06-19-2008, 09:46 AM
That occurred to me, Randy. Based on the fact that she topped out at exactly the same speed with just me as she did with two other passengers, it seems like I could turn a bit more prop with the horsepower she's making. I'll start researching. I have a SS prop, but I don't know the first thing about it. It does slip quite a bit, though.
BigGrizzly
06-19-2008, 09:52 AM
If you have a SS prop it is either a old Michigan wheel, no longer in production or an Volvo Ultra, no longer in production or possibly a Hill thrasher, it was still being special order for big dollars. I have had them all and nothing compares to mine.
smbarcelow
06-19-2008, 10:06 AM
Based on the photos Matty Boy posted (assuming I'm reading the correct thread) it looks like an Ultra. I'm only about half way through the first page of 7, so I have a bit to go. This looks like an intense crash course in prop engineering...good stuff!
By the way, I should have posted this earlier: at 56 MPH I was bumping up against 5,000 RPM.
smbarcelow
06-22-2008, 08:20 PM
I set the trim at the highest of three notches and managed 59 MPH at 5,100 to 5,200 RPM's. After I put the GPS away, I made a pass and got a solid 5,200 RPM's. I wouldn't want to run her there all the time...took forever to plane out with my wife and son with me. I also got a lot of ventilation. Power trim is definitely in my future.
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