Pilot light question... [Archive]

Donziweasel

03-23-2008, 07:15 AM

Woke up this morning and the house was freezing. Checked the pilot light on our stove and it was out. Turned off the gas and pilot knob. After 15 minutes, tunred pilot knob until you could push it in, pushed it in and lit it. It lit, but as as soon as I let the knob out, it went out. No matter how long I hold it in, whenever I let it out, the flame goes out. Checked the tank and it is full of gas. Of course it is Sunday and I can't get any service. What am I doing wrong?

CHACHI

03-23-2008, 07:24 AM

Nothing, I would guess the the sensor that detects the flame and keeps the valve open to keep the pilot lit has failed. It no longer can detect the flame so it shuts off the gas supply. Very techincal answer I know.
Where is our resident boiler man?

Ken

Donziweasel

03-23-2008, 07:30 AM

Is there a boiler mechanic in the house? Is there a boiler mechanic in the house? We need a boiler machanic, is there one in the house?:wink:

BUIZILLA

03-23-2008, 07:32 AM

i'm not a gas guy.....

but...

I had this happen on my last motorhome... drove me nuts.... turned out I had to clean the vent tube for the pilot light, it got some mud dobber's crap or dirt/dust in there... once it re-lights, adjust the mixture sleeve for color.. also, make sure your inbound regulator isn't stuck... loosen the fittings outbound of the regulator and check for good pressure..

tmdog

03-23-2008, 07:38 AM

Donziweasel

03-23-2008, 07:50 AM

Hmmm..... might leave this one for the pro's. I usually have the attitude of if something is broke, I will either fix it or make it worse, but will dig in and try anyway. Gas is a little different. Make a mistake and it could be a very BAD mistake. Got baseboard backup, just haven't used it in years. Hate em, dangerous, take huge amounts of power, and will smell for a while since they haven't been used. Still looking for that boiler mechanic!

MOP

03-23-2008, 08:14 AM

Thermo coupler! ME Too! We have a commercial oven it needs one about every three years, pretty easy to change out.

Phil

MOP

03-23-2008, 08:16 AM

Spay all the connections with "Windex" when done it will bubble if there is a leak with no safety concerns!

BUIZILLA

03-23-2008, 08:43 AM

smart wimp.. :wink:

Donziweasel

03-23-2008, 08:47 AM

Well, since it is Easter Sunday and I won't be able to get it fixed today, I am going in...... If you don't see a post from me today, I am probably cooked a nice, well done. I am work right now, but will be heading home soon. Had to come here to warm up, it is -6 outside this morning.

Thermocouplers use a chemical reaction? Hmmm...... sounds like a job for a chemist, not a mechanic. Now where is that damn boiler mechanic when I need him! LOL.

boxy

03-23-2008, 09:37 AM

Now where is that damn boiler mechanic when I need him! LOL.

If the invading fans from Ed's hometown were any indication, I'd guess he is still celebrating after the Leafs win over the Senators last night. You'd think the Leaf faithful were celebrating a Stanley Cup win. Yonge Street must have been full last night with modified Civics flying the Leafs Flag and the Tricolore....

Good luck with your gas problem, is it a stand alone stove/fireplace, or a furnace?

Donziweasel

03-23-2008, 09:49 AM

It is a stand alone. Here is a pic. It has a remote thermastat. Just put it on the temp you want and the stove automatically lights. When it reaches temp, it shuts down. Little sucker heats the whole house, (up to -35, then it can get a little chilly) and runs off a 130 gallon propane tank that also feeds our cooking stove.

Just got home and turned on the baseboards, damn they smell! Old burning dust. Blah!

Ed Donnelly

03-23-2008, 09:52 AM

Here I am to save the day:wink:

Look at the gas valve.. If you have a thin copper tube screwed into the vave with a 5/16th nut, that is a thermocouple... Not to be confused by the pilot tubing, that should be aluminum.

Or you have a shiney metal wire with 2 connectors wired into the gas valve... That is a power pile generator..

If it is the PPG then clean the part that the pilot flame hits.If it is the thermocouple, you can try that too but likely won't work..

Make sure the pilot flame is hitting the top inch of the PPG or thermocouple..

Sorry for the delay , but, Formula 1 was on at 3 a.m. this morning..

Or call me and I will walk you through it, we might be able to steal the part from another appliance

ED 416 744 2345 Home
416 984 2854 Cell in case I am out doing a service call
at $170 an hr 3hr. min. .....................Ed

Donziweasel

03-23-2008, 10:37 AM

Ed, thanks a bunch man. Really appreciate it. Got the front sheilding off. The pics are of the pilot light tube, controls and the gas valve to the unit. The pilot light tube and everything around it is coated in white soot. Clean then re-try?

Damn, you get 170.00 and hour???? Crap, I'm in the wrong business!!!! Hmmmm......Alltrans Boiler Repair. Has a nice ring. How about Boo Boo's Boilers? Boilerweasel's?

Donziweasel

03-23-2008, 10:48 AM

Better pic-

Donziweasel

03-23-2008, 11:00 AM

I think I found the problem, just not sure how to fix it. On top of the pilot light tube is a flame spitter. It splits the flame three way, to the left it hits a large round thing. In the middle, it lays the flame on top of the gas hole to light the stove. Here is the problem- on the right side it goes to a small sensor that must be the thermocoupler. I pulled everything out and the flame went all three ways and stayed lit. The stove lit. WHen I put back the plate and fake logs, the flame would not shoot out of the splitter to the right side sensor and won't stay lit. So, why is the damn thing not splitting to the right? Going to look for obstrcutions and clean again.

Ed Donnelly

03-23-2008, 11:05 AM

O.K. Light the pilot.. See if the pilot flame is a whitish in colour
(color) If it is............While still holding the pilot on.........tap the pilot several times on the top of the flame deflector..
If it changes to blue, you will have heat......Ed

P.S. Its Sunday so labour (labor) is double time

P.P.S. You did clean the spade connectors on the gas valve??

Ed Donnelly

03-23-2008, 11:08 AM

My last post was before I saw your last post TAP TAP TAP AWAY......

OR

416 984 2854 ......................Ed

It would be a good idea to get it serviced during the week..

Donziweasel

03-23-2008, 11:13 AM

Ed, here are two more pics of the flames. In the first one you can see it is split 3 ways, second pic, only 2 and the sensor on the right side is not getting flame. Now, even when I had all three, it wouldn't stay lit.

Thanks for helping me on your day off. Who won the F-1 race?

Donziweasel

03-23-2008, 11:16 AM

Ooops, forgot the pics-here they are-See anything funky? Flame look good? That is the normal color when it is working.

Ed Donnelly

03-23-2008, 11:30 AM

The one on the left is the P.P.G. for sure
2nd pic shows NO flame to the right
Never saw a pilot assy with a P.P.G. and thermocouple before.

Is this an imitation log fireplace???

Post make model serial # and I will call a few friends that work on those

I am a bit of a Prima Dona, Only do boilers......Ed
P.P.S. Don't forget to clean spade connectors,as, that P.P.G. produces between 450 and 650 millivolts (3/4 of 1 volt dc)
so it doesn't take much to screw up..
Valve needs 250 m.v. to open...................

hardcrab

03-23-2008, 11:40 AM

" Boilerweasel " HA! I like it !

Donziweasel

03-23-2008, 11:58 AM

I don't think Boilerweasel's Boiler Repair would be very successful. Spent 15 minutes on the phone with Ed and still couldn't get it to go. He thinks it is the thermocoupler. Going to see if I can find one, but being Easter Sunday, doubt any of the hardware stores are open.

Also, all my tools are at Alltrans including my multi-meter. Ed told me where me milli-volts should be off the PPG. Going to head over there, grab it, and test.

Donziweasel

03-23-2008, 12:09 PM

BTW- Thanks Ed for helping, I really appreciate it. I can say he new his stuff. Ever thought about selling cars? HAHA!

Boilerweasel's Boiler Repair is officailly out of business! After providing great service in the JH area for the last 20 minutes, I think it is time to retire. Made some money, lots of freinds and good clients. Many have asked me to stay in business, but I think it is best to close the doors for good. I'll always have my wonderful memories. I'll leave it to the pros like Ed.

BUIZILLA

03-23-2008, 12:42 PM

there is an 86* temp differential between where you are and where I am.. :cool: went to take a quick 5 minute Harley ride to cash in lotto tickets.... came back 2 1/2 hours later.. ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

MOP

03-23-2008, 12:44 PM

I believe most thermo couples are sealed pressure chambers that when heated trip the gas valve, the pilot hot is enough to keep the valve open.

Phil

zelatore

03-23-2008, 03:00 PM

Who won the F-1 race?

Well, since nobody answered the really critical question I'll chime in.

Kimi won walking away. Massa would have been an easy second, but threw it off the track trying to keep pace with Kimi. Kubica gave BMW/Sauber a lonely second, while Kovalainin (sp?) brought his Mclaren home 3rd.

Hamilton ended up 5th and still retains the points lead. He never looked like he could contend for the win this time out with front tire graining in the early laps followed by front brake problems that led to a bias adjustment that left the rear of the car twitchy.

From my point of view it's all good since my guy won but I have to admit it wasn't as exciting as Austrailia.

As for the stove, I'm not going to be much help. When mine won't light it's usually because the wood's too wet. :wink:

Ed Donnelly

03-23-2008, 04:35 PM

Mop, Mop, Mop, You are thinking of a pilotstat...
The tip is filled with alcohol, when heated alcohol expands and presses against an normally open contact.. Contact closes, makes electrical circuit within gas valve..
Thermocouple has 2 dissimilar metals twisted inside probe.

When heated it creates an electrical current normally
30 millivolts which holds open a pilot solenoid valve..Ed