Car dealers.....

[Donziweasel]

I think they are all a bunch of **** bags. You would think for a potential $250,000.00 deal I could get some service. Chevy in JH lost my business today and Ford is not too far behind. Working with Chevy in Idaho Falls now. Enough said........

[Barry Eller]

Sounds like you need a hug...:bighug:

I have been in the automobile business 35 years, yes, there are a lot of dealerships that make doing business difficult.

There are good, honest dealerships out there.

There are good, honest lawyers out there.

There are good, honest Doctors out there.

There are a lot of customers out there that have bad attitudes that makes my job a lot harder than it should be.
Some people "Deal and Negotiate" too rudely and too hard.

Good luck with your next shopping experience, I hope you get what you need at a fair price with good service.

[vonkamp]

Don't know the situation is but a call to corporate GM might be in order. I hope you can work it out. I absolutely love my Silverado. :yes:

[Donziweasel]

No offense to anyone in the buisness. Should have just said the ones I am dealing with are **** bags.

[chappy]

DW,

Perhaps if you went into a little detail, some members of the board may be able to assist, being we have people in sales, as well as some people who have purchased fleets. There may be an answer here.:umbrella:

[roadtrip se]

and my specialty is training dealers to be easier to do business with and to look at their business from the long term view of repeat customers. As Barry said, I will probably have work as long as I am interested in it, because there are dealers out there who refuse to get it.

All I would add is, treat these guys like you treat your customers. It is human nature to want to bend over backwards for somebody you like and has a sense of humor in their dealings. And let them make a little money. It amazes how many people think profit is an evil word when it comes to the auto biz.

Everything that I am seeing right now in the trade rags is that Ford incentives on the heavy stuff are stronger than everybody else, so unless the Ford products are dq-ed for reasons other than price in your book, you might try finding another dealer who might be easier to work with.

[BUIZILLA]

the latest lease deals on Navigator's, and other Lincoln products, are a slam dunk no-brainer, ZERO down, ZERO security deposit, ZERO fee's... sign and drive... unless you keep a car for 7-10 years, and if you only drive 10k-12k miles or less a year, it makes zero sense to outright buy a vehicle... in this instance, leasing a luxury Lincoln product for 39 months pays off handsomely on the back end...

JMO

[Barry Eller]

All I would add is, treat these guys like you treat your customers. It is human nature to want to bend over backwards for somebody you like and has a sense of humor in their dealings. And let them make a little money. It amazes how many people think profit is an evil word when it comes to the auto biz.


Well stated. It has never ceased to amaze me how really good and nice people come shopping for a vehicle, and have a attitude towards me, and they don't even know me, just met. I see people at their most aggressive and so many times untruthful behaviour. I guess our "well informed" buying public, have read the scripts to so many magazines and books on how to buy a car, they have confused their judgement on "human relationships" and common manners. I can always tell when a customer has read a "How to buy a car" book, they follow the script so well.

A customer that is up front with me, courteous, and respectful to me will get MUCH MORE service from me than the customer that come to me with the attitude, I'm gonna get him before he gets me!

My advice to anyone that may be close to purchasing a vehicle soon, do you research about the product you want, be honest with the people you deal with, and be realistic.

Yes, business is tough now, there is a lot at stake, but the personnel at the dealership have families to feed, mortgages to pay, they have lives too. And don't forget the dealership itself has a huge investment in property and facilities. Profit is NOT a dirty word.

I have been at the same location selling cars for 20 years. Repeat business is key to success. Relationships with my customers are determined by the respect my customers give me. I appreciate all my customers, but I do have favorites that I will do things for that I won't do for some.

Treat people the way you want to be treated. If you don't like them, be a gentleman and go somewhere else. There is nothing to gain in badmouthing someone, it makes you look bad yourself.

If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.
My Mothers advice!

[Donziweasel]

If you want the details, here they are. First, after 12 years, I have purchased over 70 vehicles for Alltrans, Inc. I actually love negotiating for new vehicles. That being said, I look at it as a war between me and them. They want the highest price they can get, I want the lowest. I have a tried and true system for negotiating called non-negotiation. I called Ford 3 days prior to going down there and meeting them. I told him here is the deal. I want two things-1. A price on the new vehicles and 2. a price on my trade. I told him he had one shot and that I was pricing out the same vehicles with Chevy. I told him he had better give me his rock bottom price and whoever had the lowest price wins. I also told him that if I decided to pass on his deal, don't come back to me with a better price because it was over and that meant he had lied to me about his best deal. He said he would.
I went down there and the sales manager stuck me with a salesman that reminded me of Gill on the Simpsons. He seemed down on his luck and had a bad limp. I am thinking that the sales manager knew I would be hard to negotiate with and wanted me with this particular salesman to soften me up. Bad idea. Anyway, we test drive, they check the trades, etc... Then comes the price. Instead of what I had asked for, he presents me with the price I will pay for the vehicle with trade. I have no idea what the price of the truck or the trade is. I am pissed! I ask him for 15 minutes what the price of the truck is and what the trade is. He keeps telling me what a wonderful deal it is. Out of the corner of my eye, I am watching the sales manager. His full attention is on us as I expected it would be. I tell Gill "Randy" that I am done and get up to leave. The sales manager come around from his desk so fast it makes my head spin. Once again we go through the ole switcherooo with them not telling me the price of the truck or the trade. Finally, I have had enough and start walking out. The sales manager, who is a ****y 27 year old with enough motor oil in his slicked back hair to do an oil change on a F-350, tells me the price of the truck and trade. His "great" deal actually sucks! He then goes on to tell me he came from a dealership in Florida where they sell 1000's of trucks and that he know how to "deal with people like me". Bad Idea. I will be damned if I am going to let some ****y punk treat me like a child in a condesending way. In any event, they had thier chance, they did not do what I asked, they treated me poorly, and they treated me like I was stupid. They also lost a $250,000.00 deal because of it. Hence why I consider them a bunch of **** bags.

Stay tuned for adventures in Chevy land later this morning as it is a whole different story. Got to get ready for work now.

[mjw930]

I'm guessing that the local dealers aren't big enough to have commercial or fleet departments. I find it amazing that you would be on negotiation on a multi vehicle deal for a business sitting on the floor with a regular salesman and the floor manager (no way this guy was the GM). If I owned that dealership I would have made sure one of my floor managers handled you personally.

Down here in Florida most Ford dealers have a fleet / commercial department with dedicated sale people. At one dealership I actually called the F&I manager to ask some questions about a Ford finance deal. As I was getting ready to hang up I asked him to recommend a salesman for me to talk to when I come in. He hooked me up with the fleet manager. I went in, we pulled the invoices on all the trucks I was interested in. I picked 2, we went out and looked at them then I picked the one I wanted, he added $500 to the invoice price (this was a few years ago and there weren't any incentives at the time) and we wrote it up. I went back to him twice on new vehicles and every time is was the same low pressure deal. Nothing to negotiate, it's $500 over invoice minus any incentives.

Now, I use supplier pricing offered through my company and it's the same deal. The price is fixed, the incentives are automatic and the dealer gets a set commission for brokering the deal. I tell whoever meets me at the door that I'm going to use X-Plan, Supplier Pricing, H-Plan, whatever and they know up front that my decision to buy will be totally on how well they treat me, not on how adversarial we can be negotiating the best deal. It takes some of the fun out of it but it also makes it easy.

Find a Ford dealership that has a commercial sales department, don't waste your time with the general sales flunkies (sorry for those in the business). Your time and money should be as important to the dealership as it is to you.

[Donziweasel]

Here is part 2, adventures in Chevy land. Last Tuesday I called Chevy and asked about fleet deals, etc... They said I needed to talk to Dave, who I know is the owner and manager (Jackson is still a small town). I leave message after message. I go over to them and leave build sheets for the vans. I go back two more times. While this is going on, I start working with a very attractive sales woman there I knew at Ford (she jumped ship) on the truck and suburban. Once again, I tell her the same thing I tell Ford, one shot, best price. Funny how every time we talk or meet her cloths get tighter and tighter and she becomes more flirty. SAVE IT FOR THE NEXT GUY! I am married and here to do business, not flirt. Anyway, finally I get the build sheets to her on the truck and suv. I keep asking about the Vans, and she say's Dave is working on it. Finally, I say, no more negotiating until I know what is up with the vans and I finally get to speak with the mysterious and never present Dave. She say's that I have to talk to Dave because there is a problem with the build sheets on the vans. I built them right off the Chevy website. Anywho, more calls to Dave, no reply. Finally, I called Tamara, and said, If Dave after a week can't call me back on a $250,000.00 deal, then I am done! Not only that, she told me it was my job to contact Dave, which I had been trying to do for a damn week! I feel at this time I have done everything, built the vehicles, left 6 messages, been by there 4 times and it is MY job to contact Dave? Screw it, lost my business and we move forward.

Maybe some of you think I am harsh. The benefits of doing business with me are impressive. I spent over $1,000,000.00 with Ford in 12 years. For this kind of potential, I do have high expectations of my dealers. Don't mess with me, stay in touch, shoot straight, and don't piss me off. I know if Dave called me with a potential $250,000.00 deal in transportation needs for Alltrans, Inc., I would call him within 1/2 a second of getting the message. Anyway, there are 8 Ford dealers within strikng distance of Jackson and 10 Chevy. I will burn through every damn one of them if I have to to get a new relationship for my company and the vehicles I want at an acceptable price.

I am also negotiating 2 $400,00.00 motorcoaches right now and two $90,000.00 mid-sized busses as well. Bus dealers piss me off. So, I am negotiating around $1,000,000.00 worth of equipment right now and it is a little stressful.

[BUIZILLA]

I've decided you need to hire me... :angel:

[VetteLT193]

I had similar experience 2 weekends ago.

Went in to the local Caddy dealer, which used to be awesome but was just bought out by the local Chevy dealer (which was always crappy at best). I hoped that the Caddy dealer's staff and mentality were still present, but instead I got the typical douche-bag salesman that you would expect to find at Kia.

I found a truck I liked (used Caddy EXT). The price is ridiculous, but douche-bag assures me that the price will come down.

We were at the dealer for 2 hours. I was honestly willing to pay a $2k premium to be done with this deal (fed up with car shopping). We were the ONLY customers there during the entire 2 hour period. In the end, the final deal the guy had come down by $500 on the asking price while trying to back me into a payment plan. Had the guy come down to a reasonable number the deal would have been done, I would have paid more, and they would have made a nice profit just for being convenient. Instead, I walked out and he chased me down in the parking lot as I drove away, never to return.

[mjw930]

Maybe you should come down here for some sunshine and R&R, negotiate a deal at one of our fleet friendly dealers and have them shipped back. Probably still save you some money and you get a sun tan out of it ;)

[Donziweasel]

What is your dealer website?

[show-n-go h2o]

DW, if you need that many i'd be more than happy to help you. i am in cincinnati but we are nationwide and we have huge fleets everywhere. PM me contact info and i'll make sure it the easiest buy you've ever had.

[mjw930]

My wife makes these "trainee" floor salesmen cry. I've seen her do it twice :shocking:

She's brutal and all they need to do is be even slightly condescending or pull the "little lady" crap out of the bag and the claws come out. I just stand back and chuckle.

I had one guy try to go around her to me and she wasn't having any part of that (neither was I). That was crying salesman number 2.........

Sorry to all you guys in the business but you gotta admit, the days of the professional salesman are all but gone. Now you get flunkies straight out of high school who weren't smart enough to get into college and have no real skills other than "people" skills. Then again, the dealerships get what they are willing to pay for.

[show-n-go h2o]

My wife makes these "trainee" floor salesmen cry. I've seen her do it twice :shocking:

She's brutal and all they need to do is be even slightly condescending or pull the "little lady" crap out of the bag and the claws come out. I just stand back and chuckle.

I had one guy try to go around her to me and she wasn't having any part of that (neither was I). That was crying salesman number 2.........

Sorry to all you guys in the business but you gotta admit, the days of the professional salesman are all but gone. Now you get flunkies straight out of high school who weren't smart enough to get into college and have no real skills other than "people" skills. Then again, the dealerships get what they are willing to pay for.

The fact that most of the dealers do have "drop out" salespeople and staff makes the business for us even better, once they shop all day with idiots, when they get to us it a breath of fresh air.

We hire nothing but professional sales people.(we pay big money to get them and keep them). We have taken the Ritz Carlton approach to car sales. we spend very little money on advertising and a ton on follow-up and customer satisfaction, the repeat business and word of mouth is the best you can get and you can't put a price on that. when the market slows our business never really takes a hit, we still have all of our regular clients.

Landing a new customer costs 3 to 5 times the cost of maintaning existing customers

[Barry Eller]

The fact that most of the dealers do have "drop out" salespeople and staff makes the business for us even better, once they shop all day with idiots, when they get to us it a breath of fresh air.

We hire nothing but professional sales people.(we pay big money to get them and keep them). We have taken the Ritz Carlton approach to car sales. we spend very little money on advertising and a ton on follow-up and customer satisfaction, the repeat business and word of mouth is the best you can get and you can't put a price on that. when the market slows our business never really takes a hit, we still have all of our regular clients.

Landing a new customer costs 3 to 5 times the cost of maintaning existing customers

This is the type of dealer I work with. No "Green Peas". We are professional and experienced. There are dealers in my town that are horrible. Sometimes a customer that has just left one of those and comes to us next are like "Rabid Bulldogs" untill they get to know us. Its a people business and some just don't get it.

Here is where I work. www.vincewhibbs.com

DW, I'm sorry you are having such a difficult time. There may be some truth to the observations that being out of the warm sunshine for long periods of time affects attitudes.:wink:

Changes in Latitudes, Changes in Attitudes! J. Buffett

[BUIZILLA]

DW, be very thankfull you don't have a Bill Heard franchise out there, theyv'e been thrown out of 2 states already for unethical conduct, I think Fla is about to be the third.. :hangum: :doh:

[show-n-go h2o]

This is the type of dealer I work with. No "Green Peas". We are professional and experienced. There are dealers in my town that are horrible. Sometimes a customer that has just left one of those and comes to us next are like "Rabid Bulldogs" untill they get to know us. Its a people business and some just don't get it.

Here is where I work. www.vincewhibbs.com (http://www.vincewhibbs.com)

DW, I'm sorry you are having such a difficult time. There may be some truth to the observations that being out of the warm sunshine for long periods of time affects attitudes.:wink:

Changes in Latitudes, Changes in Attitudes! J. Buffett

we do hire "green peas" but they go through lot's of training before they hit the floor, sometimes it's better to have a greenpea instead of a veteran, the green peas don't have any bad habits, they only know what we teach them. here is my dealer www.superiorcars.com

[roadtrip se]

My wife makes these "trainee" floor salesmen cry. I've seen her do it twice :shocking:
She's brutal and all they need to do is be even slightly condescending or pull the "little lady" crap out of the bag and the claws come out. I just stand back and chuckle.
I had one guy try to go around her to me and she wasn't having any part of that (neither was I). That was crying salesman number 2.........
Sorry to all you guys in the business but you gotta admit, the days of the professional salesman are all but gone. Now you get flunkies straight out of high school who weren't smart enough to get into college and have no real skills other than "people" skills. Then again, the dealerships get what they are willing to pay for.

You now have three career automotive industry people that have chimed in here, and we all have attempted to offer good advice. So car people are people too, contrary to the popular but false perceptions that you want to throw out.

A couple of things to chew on:

1) Factory and dealer self-measured customer satisfaction scores are at an all time high as reported by many trade rags, so buying a car by general consensus has improved. Yet the horror stories and urban legends continue.

2) More women than ever are entering the business to take care of women that want to deal with women. I been have many places where the breakdown of professional sales people is 50/50. I also consider your lack of professionalism slam, ridiculously uninformed and just plain ignorant.

3) If your only criteria for doing business with another business is price, then chances are pretty good you will get the level of service that this criteria buys.

[BUIZILLA]

1) Factory and dealer self-measured customer satisfaction scores herein lie's the problem...

Todd, spend a couple days down here, and fuzzy and I can introduce you to the world of utmost dealer arrogance, ignorance, ripoff's, deceit, and just plain flat stupidity...

ie: any Maroone store, and I mean ANY... The Collection, Vista Motors, South Motors, Machado Ford, Armstrong Ford, Midway Ford, Metro Ford, Mia Lakes Pont-GMC, Tamiami Chry-Jeep, Braman Motors, Expressway Toyota, Braman Honda, Deel Volks, any Warren Henry store, any Potamkin store, yada-yada ad nauseum...

[Donziweasel]

Here are a couple of possible misconceptions of how I do business.

1. I am always nice, but stern.
2. If we end up friends after a deal, then fine. That being said, I don't really care where you are from, if you like to fish, what your wife's name is, etc..... This all fine and dandy, but is not going to persuade me one way or the other
3. Price is the biggest factor for me as the vehicles are pretty much the same. Should I pay a 1000.00 more because the salesman was nice? NO!
4. I am freinds with some car dealers. I know many reputable people in the industry. I also know many **** bags who will lie cheat and steal to get a deal done. As Barry mentioned, you have both types in almost every industry.

I have more respect for someone who is a straight shooter whether they are nice or not. I want to good price on the vehicle I am pricing without any bull. As I have done this for 12 years, I know within 5 minutes whether the salesman is a honest straight shooter or a **** bag. The Ford sales manager was a **** bag. The Chevy one neglected his client, both are unacceptable to me. Considering a dealer could sell me $1,000,000.00 of vehicles in the next decade, I have high expectations. I realize that salesman are people too, but, while they may not make as much as with a one time unsavy buyer than when dealing with me, they will make it up in volume and will come out way ahead down the road. I am not looking for a one time deal, but a business realtionship for many years. Ford went out of business in Jackson forcing me to go elsewhere. It wasn't my choice. Now I have to find a dealership who values my business and wants a long term relationship. The new Ford dealer was obviously looking for a quick score with no long term relationship. If freindships and a non-business realtionship develops, like with my old Ford Dealer, that is great. For starters though, give me a good no nonsense deal and lets get started.

[Donziweasel]

UPDATE- My faith in finding my dealer has possibly been restored. Just got off the phone with Dennis at Smith Group Chevrolet, Ford, GMC and Pontiac. They have multiple dealerships, an in house fleet manager, and are only 90 miles from Jackson. I was straight up with him, told him my experineces with the other Chevy and Ford dealers, and told him not to piss me off. He came out and said "John, I want a long term relationship. I don't care if you like me or not, I am going to make you happy. If we become friends, fine, but your fleet needs come first". I about fell out of my chair. Finally, a straight shooter who sees the big picture. Now I've heard the talk, time to see if he can walk the walk.

If anyone is interested in doing business with me, you can go to my website www.jacksonholealltrans.com, get my number, and call me. If you can give me a good deal, the shipping costs might be cheaper than the deal I am getting here. My name is John Pearson and I am President and CEO of the company. Perhaps dealing with some board members in the industry would be a better experience than what I am dealing with now.

[roadtrip se]

Buiz, when I say "self-measured", I mean a dealer gives credence and acts on them. I doubt if this concept applies to the Maroones of the world and I am not implying that every dealer is an angel, if you look at my earlier comments. You can call me ignorant, but not gullible.

DW, if I were sitting across from you at the desk, I probably am not going to care if you are an avid bass fisherman or what your handicap is either. What I am going to do is drive a small profit for my store and try to sell you on the concept of doing repeat sales and service business with me. The lights have to stay on at our business, as well as yours, as you atest to the local Ford store going lights out. If all it was about was give me your best shot or I walk, I would probably let you walk, but it sounds like you are looking for more than just a transaction after all. Good luck with it!

[Donziweasel]

Roadtrip, I think we are on the same page, but you have to admit, the first deal is going to set the precedent of how we would do business in the future. I am looking for a long term relationship. BTW, I may have not said exactly why Ford left. It was sold, but has been vacant for 3 months. The new owner has not stepped in and since I have immediate needs, I have to go elsewher. Plus, service had become horrible at the dealership. Twice in the last year they had a an of mine for over 6 weeks for repairs. Niether were repaired correctly and I had to take them elsewhere.

I never knew this thread would elicit so many opinions, good and bad. I guess everyone has to buy a car eventually and goes through the process.

[Barry Eller]

I never knew this thread would elicit so many opinions, good and bad. I guess everyone has to buy a car eventually and goes through the process.

Some Dealerships make the buying experience harder than it should be.

Some Customers make the buying experience harder than it should be.

I still say you need a HUG!:bighug:

[Donziweasel]

Barry, I think I need a hug everyday! Will be in Mobile in May and would ask you for one, but I think I would rather have a ride in YIPPY-KAI-YAY! Once, again, sorry about the generalization of people in your industry. You are obviously not one of the above mentioned **** bags, and neither are some others in the industry.

[Barry Eller]

Barry, I think I need a hug everyday! Will be in Mobile in May and would ask you for one, but I think I would rather have a ride in YIPPY-KAI-YAY! Once, again, sorry about the generalization of people in your industry. You are obviously not one of the above mentioned **** bags, and neither are some others in the industry.

Apology accepted.

What are the dates you will be in Mobile? Denise's brothers, one from Seattle and one from Memphis, will be here the weekend of the 8,9,10,11th. We have rented a waterfront townhouse on the sound-side of Pensacola Beach. I'll have the 22 anchored there ready to go. If those dates work for you, come to PBeach and I'll take you for a run!

If not those dates, still give me a shout and I'll check my schedule.

Good luck in your vehicle purchases.

[Donziweasel]

Boo Boo and I will be there from May 21-26th for her parents anniversary. We are staying at the Grand Hotel for three of those days. Going to be around for any of that time? One of those nights we might stay at Boo Boo's beach house on Dauphin Island.

[Barry Eller]

As you know, I'm in the car business, I have to work Saturdays. I usually can only take 1 Saturday a month off. I'm off on Tuesdays and Sundays. I think the 25th is a Sunday. Depending on your schedule and mine, I'm always up to a run to Jimmy Buffett's sisters place in Gulf Shores, Lulus.

http://www.lulusathomeport.com/main/index.php


Denise and I could run there and we could meet for a cold drink, lunch and a Donzi ride. Lets see if Venus, Mars and the Moon align.

[Donziweasel]

Let's stay in touch.

Got my bids back from the Smith Group on the Chevy's. Ford's should be along shortly. The Suburban is a 1/2 ton LT2 package with leather and all the fixin's. $40,000.00 and some change. Not bad! 2500 HD fully loaded with captians chairs and leather with all the fixin's, $38,000.00 and some change. Not bad either! Vans were $28,000 for AWD 1500 and $27,000 for the 3500 series. Since they are also a Ford dealer, it is going to be interesting to see what the F-350 and Expedition price out at.

This dealer "get's it"! Straight forward, no BS, and hasn't pissed me off yet. He is also a fleet manager. His prices are low and that is not even counting incentives. He is obviously looking for a long term relationship and knows that if he gives me a good deal, even if he takes it on the chin round one, I will come back again and again and he will make it up on volume. It is nice to see that there are still some reputable dealers in my area. Kudo's to Dennis at Smith Group. Plus, had the bids back within 4 hours of building, printing and faxing- I like promptness.

[mjw930]

2) More women than ever are entering the business to take care of women that want to deal with women. I been have many places where the breakdown of professional sales people is 50/50. I also consider your lack of professionalism slam, ridiculously uninformed and just plain ignorant.



There you go, calling me names again........

Silly me........ I've only bought and sold 10 cars in the last 5 years so I guess my experiences aren't statistically accurate.

[Donziweasel]

Is roadtrips quote aimed at me or mjw930?

I re-read some of the posts in this thread and something reoadtrip said did make me wonder-

"DW, if I were sitting across from you at the desk, I probably am not going to care if you are an avid bass fisherman or what your handicap is either. What I am going to do is drive a small profit for my store and try to sell you on the concept of doing repeat sales and service business with me. The lights have to stay on at our business, as well as yours, as you atest to the local Ford store going lights out. If all it was about was give me your best shot or I walk, I would probably let you walk, but it sounds like you are looking for more than just a transaction after all. Good luck with it!"

Why would you let me walk? This is about selling and buying vehicles. I'm confused. If I walked into your dealership, said I am shopping and I want your best offer, you would let me walk?????? That is not very good business. I would give my best offer, and then if the customer walked you can say you gave it your best shot. It sounds as though you would instead say "no I am not going to give you my best shot, now get the hell out!" or you would give me a shot, but not your best one. Hmmmm........not sure how you sell cars that way, seems counterproductive.

[Barry Eller]

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popc orn:


OK, "Why can't we all get along"?
DW and I have made peace. We all have our own personalities, we all have our ways of doing things, whether or not we agree with those ways.

My point is to be respectful to your fellow man in business and in life.

Don't be petty.

Don't be condescending.

My new motto: Speak Softly and have a 502 in your Donzi!

[BUIZILLA]

since we are a varied sort in locations, interests, wealth, household count, careers, I have a car buying question

> do your local dealers pad the invoice with MANDATORY DEALER FEE'S and other added profits???... down here in Deceitville most, not all, charge between $299-$699 mandatory dealer fee's. In addition, one now charges an extra mandatory $400-$800 paint protection package, which cost said dealer my future business. I, flat out, won't pay it. If they give me an extra discount to offset the fee's then add them back in to zero it out, that's okay, but the upfront pad irritates me. If it's not on the window sticker, then it's not an option I pay for. It's called ADP for short, Additional Dealer Profit.

what say you??

[Barry Eller]

Most dealerships have a add on dealer fee.(It used to be called Dealer Prep). The store I work for has a dealer fee printed on the buyers order. Yes, this is add on profit, used pay porters and office personnel. Each dept of a dealership has to generate income in some manner.

The dealer I work for DOES NOT have "addendum's" for paint protection, etc. I know of some dealers in my town that add up to $2000.00 in add on's over MSRP.

There was a federal act years ago that started automobile dealers to put window stickers on vehicles. It is called the Monroney Act.

http://www.autopedia.com/html/monroneysticker.html


Any deviation from these laws must be accompanied with an "addendum".

Hey, I didn't invent the car business, I just work in it to make a living. I don't lie, cheat, or steal from my customers. I can't change the world any more than any of you can. I just try to make my little part of it as good as possible. (original quote by B. Eller)

[roadtrip se]

Sorry to all you guys in the business but you gotta admit, the days of the professional salesman are all but gone. Now you get flunkies straight out of high school who weren't smart enough to get into college and have no real skills other than "people" skills. Then again, the dealerships get what they are willing to pay for.

but this is the ultimate in name calling and complete CRAP and uncalled for! I called you out on it and I stand by my comments. I have friends, and mentors, with families that have made legitimate lifelihoods for years working in the biz and they aren't and never were what you describe here. I am not what you describe here and I take complete offense to it.
As for buying and selling all of those cars, I pity the fools that had to deal with your BS and I would think, and can only hope, that the arrogance you exhibit here would have had to cost you every time you bought or sold a fricking vehicle.

DW, my comments directed at you were addressed to you and as I said earler, good luck with your deal! I think we all know when we are being dealt with by a professional and with an air of respect. Price is important, but it is just one of the deal factors, which the chronology of your dealings is pointing out. I bet you will get a great deal and a business partner in the process.

Buiz, what is your motive? If you don't want to pay the fees that the bozos in your area seem to think they can charge and seem to be getting, then don't do business there. They are BS, we know they are BS, and anybody who pays them has to be a complete imbecile. Congratulations, you live in a shark tank, I would aknowledge that.

[BUIZILLA]

Todd, open your radiator cap.... I can honestly sit here and state, without question, that 80%+ of the dealerships in a 100 mile radius of here operate as mjw930 states. I can prove it anytime. You won't be happy. It's discouraging. It's demeaning. It's insulting. It's frustrating. Now, I understand your wanting this industry to operate at an elevated standard. Down here, it just doesn't function like that. Sorry, don't shoot me, i'm just telling the 100% truth about an area I have resided in for over 53 years straight... Everyone has their own *art* of doing the deal... some are more *artistic* than others. The absolute worst thing this industry has evolved into is the super mega conglomerates like AutoNation, and a few others. It destroyed the mom-pop relationships. Maroone owns around 40 stores around here, and you can just smell the same 'tude at every store... the website for Barry's employer is very impressive... open, welcoming, friendly, tells a family story and history, highlights the brands and specials, shows current inventory, and most importantly, promotes public camraderie. They promote integrity.

Maroone promotes PRICE & SELECTION.. what does this do?? it puts the public on notice that they EXPECT THE BEST PRICE when they walk in the door, the customer is automatically armed to be defensive from the get-go... if you advertise all you have to sell is price, then be damn well prepared to get hit up front with your best offer, or else.

your methods may vary... :cool:

[gold-n-rod]

I've read in other places that there is little difference between Maroone and Moron. :doh:

[roadtrip se]

The ENTIRE auto biz does not operate like it does in South Florida. And I won't agree or accept the generalizing or name calling. It just hits too close to home.

Before I try this on you, let me state that my best friend from twelve years of age is a certified Ford Master Technician. I hold a high level of respect for his ability, intellect, and integrity.

Let's just re-phrase what my friend MJW said to reflect your business, through a little word replacement magic:

"Sorry to all you guys in the MECHANICAL business but you gotta admit, the days of the professional MECHANIC are all but gone. Now you get flunkies straight out of high school who weren't smart enough to get into college and have no real skills other than MECHANICAL skills. Then again, the SHOPS get what they are willing to pay for."

Now I know that every mechanical shop operates with the upmost in integrity and trades on their name. No one would ever accuse a good shop of ripping them off or doing work that wasn't necessary.

Enough already?

Radiator cap, optimisim, and all, the comments were a generalization and I took offense to them and still do.

[gold-n-rod]

Somebody forgot their meds, again. :popcorn:

[BUIZILLA]

Let's just re-phrase what my friend MJW said to reflect your business, through a little word replacement magic:
"Sorry to all you guys in the MECHANICAL business but you gotta admit, the days of the professional MECHANIC are all but gone. Now you get flunkies straight out of high school who weren't smart enough to get into college and have no real skills other than MECHANICAL skills. Then again, the SHOPS get what they are willing to pay for." I would agree 100% with this... and take it a step past that, very few if any, high school worky's are entering the high tech auto/truck repair biz, their too busy sucking up lollipop's, dancing all night, and pounding games on keyboards... :doh: you'd be surprised how many can't even spell *diesel* on their resume's.. every time Sears has a sale on tool's, we have a new flood of applicants..

let me help you with some new potential business leads for starters, hey just tryin to help a bro' >

Ron Esserman
Bill Seidle
Wayne Huizenga
Maroone Group
Warren Henry
Alan Potamkin
Bill Heard
Carl Black
Norman Braman
Joe DeMaria
Bev Smith
Williamson Group
Vera Group
Gus Machado
Rick Case
Dick Rechtein

prolly about 3-4 BILLION $$$ in yearly biz...

they'll eat you for lunch

good luck !!

:angel: :cool:

[Trueser]

Ok I printed this out and I gotta POOP

Man this has been a long winter...

[Donziweasel]

Poodle, sure you can't hold it? Getting interesting.

[Donziweasel]

One thing I would like to mention about dealerships is how they take care of you after the deal. This is as important to me as the deal itself. Do they offer free towing for warranty issues, do they have a loaner car, do they really warranty the vehicle or do they just say they do all these things? The Ford warranty when I bought all my 6.0L was 100000 miles or 5 years powertrain. Great warranty at the time and a factor when I bought my rigs. This was before many of the problems with the 6.0 surfaced. I mentioned the service was horrible when Ford left. Of course before they left, they didn't want anything to do with 6.0's and my dealer almost refused to work on them. Got bad, with nickle and diming me, making every excuse in the book not to touch them, etc..... The point is a good dealer will stand behind the vehicle he sells you 100% and not try and get around warranty work and will treat you well when you need service. Many don't do this and when the deal is over, there attitude suddenly changes when the vehicle has problems and they suddenly forget all those wonderful promises they made you.

Another point is that the young arrogant punk at the Ford dealer I went to last Friday that pissed me off said he was from SOUTH FLORIDA! If that is all Buiz has to deal with in 100 miles, then I would be frustrated too. He presented the deal as he wanted to cover up how bad a deal it was, not the way I asked. He talked real big of how he was from South Florida, worked for a dealership where they sold 1000's of trucks a month and "knew how to deal with people like me". If this is what you deal with around Miami, I would never buy a car there.

Barry, like the website. Says "freindly, family, honest business" and you see who you are dealing with on the home page. I would walk through your door, not sure what would happen after that, but a good initial impression none the less.

Funny how dealerships act differently in different parts of the country. Also funny how that 100000 mile/5 year warranty is not found on any deisel trucks anymore either, Ford or Chevy.

Can anyone tell me why I have a $1,000.00 delivery fee on the vehicles? Always thought that was a bunch of dealership BS.

Now I gotta go poop!

[Donziweasel]

As I sit here wondering what my adventures in vehicle purchasing will hold for me today, I thought of another reason I didn't like Gill and South Florida boy-Product familarity. I am seeing this more and more, salesman not familar with the product they are selling. I can not tell you how many times Gill got up to "check on the option". I can spend 15 minutes online and tell you every spec, color and package affiliated with a vehicle. Good dealers will take the time to educate themselves on the brand of vehicle that they are selling. It was down right sorry that I knew more about the vehicle I was buying than the salesman selling it and it also gave me an advantage. I am sure roadtrip and Barry knwo there products, but I am also sure many don't, don't care, and just want the fast buck.

For example, Barry, your dealership sells Pontiacs, if I came in and asked what the standard engine in a G8 is, what colors can I get, and what does the security package include, can you answer without checking? Bet you could, but I also bet 1/2 of Pontiac dealers couldn't.

True story- about 10 years ago when I was green in the business and much younger a Ford Salesman told me thay had re-designed the new Ford E-350 and it had much improved muffler bearings because the old muffler bearings were prone to wear. I walked out.

[mjw930]

but this is the ultimate in name calling and complete CRAP and uncalled for! I called you out on it and I stand by my comments. I have friends, and mentors, with families that have made legitimate lifelihoods for years working in the biz and they aren't and never were what you describe here. I am not what you describe here and I take complete offense to it.
As for buying and selling all of those cars, I pity the fools that had to deal with your BS and I would think, and can only hope, that the arrogance you exhibit here would have had to cost you every time you bought or sold a fricking vehicle.

Todd,

Don't give me that sob story about the group of people you know that depend on the auto industry to put food on their table, that has absolutely no bearing on the realities of life in the big city. And don't twist my words with your Mechanics crap either, I never said that. (but I can put you in touch with at least 4 service managers who will tell you it's getting next to impossible to find "professional" mechanics to hire).

It isn't just So. FL, try NY/NJ, LA, SFO, Chicago, Phoenix, DFW, Atlanta and every over metropolitan area with more than 2 million people (I've lived, worked and bought cars in all of these areas). Mega Car dealers live and die on volume. They employ order takes to shuffle offer sheets between the customer and a floor manager who, BTW, was shuffling those papers a year or two before (at most). They bury the actual price of the vehicle or the ridiculously low trade in value under the guise of a low monthly payment. People walk out of these mega dealerships with car deals that make the sub prime mortgages look like gems. It's unethical, deceitfully and in some places illegal as evidenced buy some of the litigation brought and pending against mega dealers like Bill Heard.

Now, I didn't say ALL car dealers were like this and I didn't say there weren't real professionals still out there, it's just that they are getting harder and harder to find because they will not work under the conditions most Mega dealers demand.

I go out of my way to find the locally owned dealerships to do business with because I appreciate the level of service I usually get. I consider most of these to employ professionals and I assume this is the type of dealer or small dealer group that you work with. It is the exact polar opposite of what someone is subjected to in a major metro area mega dealer.

You don't need to feel sorry for any of the dealers I've done business with. The good ones I've dealt with over the past decade (Volvo, Porsche, Mercedes, Ford, Chevy and Various Independents) still send me Christmas cards and birthday emails (Volvo and Mercedes are hand written and posted). Somehow I don't think they minded doing business with me.

BTW, you have cornered the forum market on arrogance, I can only hope to some day reach your level!

[chappy]

How much in Registry donations will it take to lock this focker?:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:wavey:

[Donziweasel]

I wouldn't lock it, you have representatives from the industry and the general public present. It is obviously an emotional topic, but let everyone speak thier minds. I think it is a good opportunity for those in the industry to refute some popular misconseptions and those of us who are not, to possible learn a dealers view. Perhaps we could tone it down a little, but there is a lot to be gained on both sides with a little education.

[chappy]

I wouldn't lock it, you have representatives from the industry and the general public present. It is obviously an emotional topic, but let everyone speak thier minds. I think it is a good opportunity for those in the industry to refute some popular misconseptions and those of us who are not, to possible learn a dealers view. Perhaps we could tone it down a little, but there is a lot to be gained on both sides with a little education.
Just a little joke DW. Apparently this topic has drained some of their sense of humor. Sorry.:rolleyes:

[Barry Eller]

Just a little joke DW. Apparently this topic has drained some of their sense of humor. Sorry.:rolleyes:


Yeah, its starting to feel like work, like when a customer that just left one of the whorehouse dealers and is mad at the world. Then they want to take it out on me! Whew, sometimes I want to go home, kick my dogs, smack my wife, and commit some random act of violence! But I just get myself a Margarita, get on the computer and get the solace the Donzi Registry provides! :wink::drunk:

Peace my Brothers...

[Carl C]

Yikes, I'm going to Royal Oak Ford tuesday to price a new F-150. This should be interesting. One thing about me is that if someone tries to bamboozle me or talk me into something all it does is piss me off. Yup, this will be interesting. MP, did everything come out OK?

[mjw930]

Yeah, its starting to feel like work, like when a customer that just left one of the whorehouse dealers and is mad at the world. Then they want to take it out on me! Whew, sometimes I want to go home, kick my dogs, smack my wife, and commit some random act of violence! But I just get myself a Margarita, get on the computer and get the solace the Donzi Registry provides! :wink::drunk:

Peace my Brothers...

Barry,

I checked out your link and yours is exactly the type of dealership I search out but you know how hard that is when you live someplace like Orlando, Tampa, Jacksonville or Miami where the "whorehouse" dealers have put most of the mom and pop dealerships out of business.

Barry, Show-n-go and even Todd seem to be the exception to the rule when it comes to modern day car dealerships. At least when compared to the mega dealers.

I can see where real quality service and professionalism is what's required for you to compete because if you try to do it on price alone the big guys will eat you for lunch.

I apologize to all 3 of you if my comments offended you but I can't sugar coat the way me, my friends and my family have been treated when shopping the latest crop of dealers available to us. Since moving to Daytona I have had the opportunity to visit some nice mom and pop dealerships in places like Palm Coast and St. Augustine and it is indeed a breath of fresh air.

[BUIZILLA]

I had a great experience with Ray Washerhaley at Jon Hall Chev. in Daytona, i'd go there again... also the Pont-GMC dealer in Leesburg is A+, the Ford dealer in Clermont is A+, Ford dealer in Leesburg is A+, Ford in Belle Glade was A+, Ford in LaBelle was A+, Abraham Chev in TPA was A+, GMC in Sarasota was A++ until the polyrazzmataz and dealer fee's started... Lexus Kendall was A+, Lauderdale BMW was A+, Blake in Homestead has been A++ several times, Williamson Caddy in Miami was C-, The Collection Audi flat out rapes and sucks, as does Deel Volks, Deel Ford and Deel Volvo.. Hallett Pont-GMC was so-so.... I can probably add another 15-20 i've bought from...

my all time favorite is Edd Rogers Chev-Pont-Caddy-GMC-Buick/Valley Ford-Mercury in Sparta-McMinnville, TN., no finer people you'll ever meet.

[BUIZILLA]

fuzzy, why don't you outline the new toy fiasco...

start with Armstrong and go north...

+10k here
+5k there
+4k over yonder
sticker over there
fee's over the hill
back to 4k over
then back to sticker
then it's 9.8k over again
then it's sticker
then it's kinda done... but...

:smash:

[Donziweasel]

Thank You Poodle! It is sad when you go to buy a vehicle and you know more about the vehicle than they do. Plus, I try and stay on top of muffler bearing technology these days.

No offense Chappy, just think it is an interesting thread and something we all have to deal with occasionally. It is nice to see some prespectives from dealers. Don't want to beat them up, but want some insight.

I will say that I think controvesial threads are killed too quickly sometimes. If all we ever talk about is fluff and happy things, it gets kinda boring. The real world isn't like that.

Barry, I do have some questions for you-
1. Is the delivery fee corporates or the dealers fee?
2. When you see a customer for the first time, what goes through your head?
3. Does dealer training at your dealership include product familarity?
4. Is there any organization of dealers that police the industry? I would think that if dealers could expose bad, unethical dealers, then the views of some on the industry might change.
5. How does the relationship with corporate and the dealer work with warranty issues?
6. How much leeway does a dealer really have on price?
7. Are salesman paid by commission, salary, or a mix of both?
8. Does a sales manager have to approve every deal a salesman makes?

I am asking because I really don't know. As I have now met some of you, perhaps my attitude towards dealers has been a little harsh and the "war" thing might be a little overkill. Still, I have my methods and they generally produce results, but having the answers to the above questions can definetly help me in my negotiations. I think many misconceptions might be due to a lack of knowledge on how the industry operates.

[VetteLT193]

It's my opinion that if there is any negotiation on the car price, the dealer sucks.

There should be no reason that person A pays a different price than person B on the same vehicle... The ONLY reason for the negotiation process is so a dealer can get as much money out of the customer as possible. If this is a dealer's attitude/way of doing biz, then the dealer should expect the customer to have the opposite attitude: to get the price as low as possible, make the sales staff cry, and in general do whatever it takes to 'win' because war has been declared (by the dealer, not the customer).

Best new car dealer I've been to hands down is Reedman in Langhorn PA. No haggle pricing that is super competitive, easy to deal with sales staff, and selection that is unreal.

[DonziChick]

I can't tell you how many car dealerships I walked out of when I was looking for my Wrangler. I only had a couple of requirements: one of 3 colors I liked, air conditioning, cd player and manual.

The first problem is that most of them treated me like an idiot and kept asking if I was sure if I really wanted a Wrangler. One told me that if I wanted a convertible, I might consider a Sebiering (sp??) . Why on earth would I want one of those?? All of them asked me if I could drive a manual (except for the dealership I finally bought from). Why would I want to buy and test drive a manual if I couldn't drive it?? One of the ones who asked me, couldn't drive it worth crap to get it to the gas station on a test drive. I was looking for a Jeep at the same time the 08's were coming out. One salesmen tried to sell me an 07 for more than the same 08 would have cost and refused to deal with me on that.

I finally got fed up and told show-n-go to keep an eye out for what I wanted. I ended up buying from Bobby (Preferred cars and marine) and it was the easiest thing I've ever bought. Probably didn't hurt that I see him every year at AOTH :wink:

[roadtrip se]

and since I used Charmin toilet paper, I can now proclaim myself an expert on all things toilet paper.

I can honestly say, it really pisses me off when I buy toilet paper at one of the big box stores and I am thinking it is going to be the good stuff, heck it might even have a national brand on it, and I get it home on the roller, and it's one ply. Afterall, I thought I was getting a great deal and wheeling that big cart through the store, no bags at checkout, and all the other nuances of doing business at a big box are such a hassle.

Then I get out on my favorite chat site, proclaim myself a toilet paper expert, and advise everybody to buy TP at the local IGA. You can only get two ply there.

Things like this get posted, "All of those big box places are full of crooks because they only sell one ply and they are mis-leading the public. Only un-educated scum bags would work at the big box stores or be associated with them."

Finally, somebody gets out there who might know a thing or two about TP and the business, and starts setting the generalizations straight.

I just hope DW gets a great deal and he ends up with the two ply he was looking for, wherrever he ends up buying it.

As for me, I am pooped.

[Donziweasel]

Not sure how to reply to that one, but I hope I get my 2 ply at a good price as well.

Donzichick, There have been a couple of posts on this thread about how women are treated differently than men at dealerships. What has been you experience and do you agree? Personally, negotiating is not Boo Boo's strong point and I think a good/bad (depends on how you look at it) salesperson would rip her to shreds.

[BUIZILLA]

maybe Saturn and Car Max have it right....

maybe

[chappy]

Car Max is one of the few things keeping Circuit City above water these days, unless the split was completed?

[Donziweasel]

THE DEAL IS DONE! One of the best buying experiences I have ever had. Contact on Monday, negotiations on Tuesday, purchase on Wednesday. No BS, straight shooting, and I never had to leave my office. Ordered a F-350 Lariat w/6.4L and auto tranny, Eddie Bauer Expedition, and 2 3500 Chevy Vans. I will order 2 more vans in the fall. I will also continue to work with this dealer for years to come provided he treats me right. Total of the purchase- $140,000.00.

On another note, Gill and ****bag from the other Ford Dealer called back today saying they had managed to better thier deal. I will not call back. One shot and they blew it.

[VetteLT193]

Car Max is one of the few things keeping Circuit City above water these days, unless the split was completed?

They split a few years ago. I would have done biz with carmax because they are closer (2 hours instead of 7 hours) but for $7,000 less I drove the extra 5 hours. Their prices usually are super competitive though


THE DEAL IS DONE! One of the best buying experiences I have ever had. Contact on Monday, negotiations on Tuesday, purchase on Wednesday. No BS, straight shooting, and I never had to leave my office. Ordered a F-350 Lariat w/6.4L and auto tranny, Eddie Bauer Expedition, and 2 3500 Chevy Vans. I will order 2 more vans in the fall. I will also continue to work with this dealer for years to come provided he treats me right. Total of the purchase- $140,000.00.
On another note, Gill and ****bag from the other Ford Dealer called back today saying they had managed to better thier deal. I will not call back. One shot and they blew it.


Congrats:) It always feels good when everything is done.

[Donziweasel]

Thanks, and I only pissed off half of Donzi.net and told two dealers to go to hell. Hmmmm......about par for the course!:eek!::hangum::smash::wink:

[Ed Donnelly]

If you only p***ed of half the donzi net

You aren't trying hard enough:propeller::propeller:

Hell, on a good day I can get them all, but, I have an advantage

You see I am :canada::eek!::eek!:...............Ed

[gold-n-rod]

Thanks, and I only pissed off half of Donzi.net

Half? No way. Not even 5% or maybe 1%. The other 99% have taken it up the butt from dealerships and feel your pain.

[Donziweasel]

Ha ha! I'm not too worried about it because now it's all over, in 8 weeks I will have a new truck. Can anyone say they are not pshyched to get a new car? I'm getting two. And two for the business. I must admit I love buying equipment for Alltrans, Inc. It is nice to see your company strutting it's stuff on the road in new, shiney rigs. As for my truck, I am lovin it! 2008 F-350 Lariat, leather interior, 6.4L Twin Turbo Diesel, and all the fixin's and, probably, horrible gas mileage. Plus, love that new damn tailgate step. Who likes climbing into the bed of their truck? I hate it! Nice feature.

Boo Boo is pretty excited too. Still trying for the kids to put in that Expedition!:wink:

[gold-n-rod]

I must admit I love buying equipment for Alltrans, Inc. It is nice to see your company strutting it's stuff on the road in new, shiney rigs.

I thought you sold your business?

[Donziweasel]

Whole other story. In conclusion, I had an amazing winter, passed on a big offer, and decided, for now, to keep it. JH is going crazy right now and I am actually going to expand my fleet by the two vans, two mid-sized coaches and two motorcoaches. I can get much more money in a couple of years.

[mike o]

That was entertaining, cant wait for part 2 (next fall)............

[Donziweasel]

Not going to be another war. The two vans for the fall have been negotiated and done. I like this dealer.

I can keep the thread alive about telling you how the bus negotiations are going. Since no one here is a bus dealer- I think they are all a bunch of **** bags! Haha...

As for Alltrans, Inc.- Here is the full story-

http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=52162

[mike o]

Kinda enjoyed the rocky mt. snowmobile videos myself. Gooood stuff, better for the blood pressure.......

[DonziChick]

Donzichick, There have been a couple of posts on this thread about how women are treated differently than men at dealerships. What has been you experience and do you agree? Personally, negotiating is not Boo Boo's strong point and I think a good/bad (depends on how you look at it) salesperson would rip her to shreds.


I'm definitely treated differently. Salesmen don't ask men if they can drive a manual if they ask to test drive one. :smash: I did my homework on what I wanted and what it would cost and none of them expected that. When a dealership tries to sell me an 07 for MORE than I'd pay for an 08 (with the 08 having more options), there's a problem. They really wanted my Miata on trade and were suprised when I walked out on them.

When I walked into Preferred, their Jeep was priced right and they dealt with me on the Miata. Now if only I could afford one of their Donzis...

[roadtrip se]

Half? No way. Not even 5% or maybe 1%. The other 99% have taken it up the butt from dealerships and feel your pain.
http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=52138

After a little initial discussion, it looks like you might be getting some pretty good service out of your local Toyota dealer.

Save the "it's all the factory" stuff too, because the dealer is always a big part of how smoothly these sort of things go, been there done that.

Kind of ironic, based on what you are saying here, don't you think? Facilitating the replacement of a tired, eight year old vehicle with a new one hardly sounds like a "butt" job to me.

Dang it, I got to poop, and maybe barf, yet again....

[Donziweasel]

Hmmm..... got more negative rep points today and this qoute next to it-"bitch, bitch, bitch..................I'm sure you don't profit in your business?" Just FYI- I didn't post profit in 12 years until 2 years ago and I din't do it by paying sticker at the dealer!

Anyone else? I think I ended by saying I has happy with my new dealer and the deal I got. Plenty of people bitched a lot harder than me in the thread. Oh well, so some idiot didn't like what I said, boo hoo. Perhaps they were an offended dealer. Simply don't read the thread.

Roadtrip, Barry, either of you on the red button this morning?

I don't give neg points, only green ones, although plenty of people have said plenty of irritating things. Bad Karma.

Anyone want to fess up?, love to know who it was.

[BUIZILLA]

I've never heard of an instance of 1.5 x KBB in any situation whatsoever... that is a phenominal goodwill offer. Was that on a buy-tradein allowance? or a buy out offer?

[roadtrip se]

Red Donzi, new pearl red car, and yes, a red ding this morning.
I cried about it.

DW, I didn't ding ya. I actually enjoy the more spirited discussions we have here. I will admit, this one is close to the heart and a few points got a little too personal for me, but for cripes sake, it's a chat board.

If something you picked up here helped you get a great deal on the new fleet units, then it was worth it.

[Donziweasel]

Thanks roadtrip. I know the thread probably irritated you, but I am glad you gave your opinion. I think in the heat of the battle, sometimes you forget salesman are people too, and you have good ones and bad ones. You and Barry reminded me of that, and in the end, the dealer got a good deal and so did I, plus I learned a few things from you guys on the boards in the biz. I dinged ya a green one. Did you mean someone ding ya a red one on the rep or someone ding/hit your new car?

Over the years I have dealt with the good, the bad and the ugly. It has kinda evolved the way I approached a deal. Maybe in the future I will be a little more open minded and not go in ready for war. It has helped finding a good reputable dealer to work with. My faith has been restored, for now. Now on to the busses.....

Whoever did ding me-BITE ME!

Mike O, thanks for the compliment on the sno mo. Might get in one more ride this year, but we are talking of making a full video next year. Stay tuned........

[gold-n-rod]

http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=52138
After a little initial discussion, it looks like you might be getting some pretty good service out of your local Toyota dealer.
Save the "it's all the factory" stuff too, because the dealer is always a big part of how smoothly these sort of things go, been there done that.
Kind of ironic, based on what you are saying here, don't you think? Facilitating the replacement of a tired, eight year old vehicle with a new one hardly sounds like a "butt" job to me.
Dang it, I got to poop, and maybe barf, yet again....

Sorry, but "it's all the factory." I know that's not what you want to hear, but read the following bullentin from Toyota. The tell the dealership EXACTLY what to do, what to say and how to act. I doubt they'll but up with a dealer who behaves otherwise.

http://www.showstop.org/images/truck/rust_warranty/vehicle-inspection.pdf

My "up the butt" comments were directed to the sales side of the house. I've usually had good dealings with the greasy side, especially at Toyota.

Hope your tummy feels better soon!!!!! :wink:

[gold-n-rod]

I've never heard of an instance of 1.5 x KBB in any situation whatsoever... that is a phenominal goodwill offer. Was that on a buy-tradein allowance? or a buy out offer?

Cash buyout, plus $1000 loyality cash on another Tacoma or $500 loyality cash on any other new or certified Toyota.

They want these trucks off the road...... stat!

[show-n-go h2o]

Barry, I do have some questions for you-
1. Is the delivery fee corporates or the dealers fee?
DEALER. The factory charge is already on the invoice/sticker.
2. When you see a customer for the first time, what goes through your head? lets make a deal today, if not i got out of bed and stood here all day for free.
3. Does dealer training at your dealership include product familarity? YES, The factory makes the sales people pass tests on product knowlage
4. Is there any organization of dealers that police the industry? I would think that if dealers could expose bad, unethical dealers, then the views of some on the industry might change.Not that im aware of, we dont have time to study what they are doing in every deal. speculation wouldn't be good enough.
5. How does the relationship with corporate and the dealer work with warranty issues? it's there warranty, we have very little say so in what is and isn't covered, they pay us just like a customer except a little cheaper per hour.
6. How much leeway does a dealer really have on price?
New cars. we start from invoice, less any factory to dealer money. some manufacturers don't give out dealer money only cust. rebates. on used it depends what we pay for the car. there is no set leeway on any car.
7. Are salesman paid by commission, salary, or a mix of both? At most places it's all commission. salary in this cield of work would create some very lasy, lousey sales staff.
8. Does a sales manager have to approve every deal a salesman makes? YES. unless it's at sticker price. and even then the sales manager has to sign off before the business manager will print the papers.

I am asking because I really don't know. As I have now met some of you, perhaps my attitude towards dealers has been a little harsh and the "war" thing might be a little overkill. Still, I have my methods and they generally produce results, but having the answers to the above questions can definetly help me in my negotiations. I think many misconceptions might be due to a lack of knowledge on how the industry operates.


the Gm of our chevy store called you and left a couple of message's with no returned call. it sounds like you got it handled closer to home.

[show-n-go h2o]

It's my opinion that if there is any negotiation on the car price, the dealer sucks.

There should be no reason that person A pays a different price than person B on the same vehicle... The ONLY reason for the negotiation process is so a dealer can get as much money out of the customer as possible. If this is a dealer's attitude/way of doing biz, then the dealer should expect the customer to have the opposite attitude: to get the price as low as possible, make the sales staff cry, and in general do whatever it takes to 'win' because war has been declared (by the dealer, not the customer).
.

there doesnt have to be, the comsumer is why there is negotiation. The factory does'nt put those stickers on there for the hell of it. the sticker is considered fair profit. Come in and pay sticker, (no negotiation) that would be easy for all party's.. but then everyone would have negative equity like they do when they buy saturns.

[show-n-go h2o]

Hmmm..... got more negative rep points today and this qoute next to it-"bitch, bitch, bitch..................I'm sure you don't profit in your business?" Just FYI- I didn't post profit in 12 years until 2 years ago and I din't do it by paying sticker at the dealer!

Anyone else? I think I ended by saying I has happy with my new dealer and the deal I got. Plenty of people bitched a lot harder than me in the thread. Oh well, so some idiot didn't like what I said, boo hoo. Perhaps they were an offended dealer. Simply don't read the thread.

Roadtrip, Barry, either of you on the red button this morning?

I don't give neg points, only green ones, although plenty of people have said plenty of irritating things. Bad Karma.

Anyone want to fess up?, love to know who it was.

what red and green buttons are you refering to? i must have missed something

[Donziweasel]

Show, thanks for answering my questions, I really appreciate it. I did speak with someone from Superior this morning and told him I had a deal, but would speka with him this fall for my next two vans. Never afraid to shop.

Figure of speech on the red/green button. Red means someone gove you negative rep points, green means positive. Just gave you some green.

[show-n-go h2o]

Show, thanks for answering my questions, I really appreciate it. I did speak with someone from Superior this morning and told him I had a deal, but would speka with him this fall for my next two vans. Never afraid to shop.

Figure of speech on the red/green button. Red means someone gove you negative rep points, green means positive. Just gave you some green.


My pleasure.

i didnt know that feature was there.. lol
thank for the green clicks

[Donziweasel]

Hell, I didn't know the rep thing was there for almost a year after I joined. I seem to have the market cornered on negative ones lately.

It is like an wise ole fuzzy moderator from Miami once told me, (like, two days ago), John, it's just a chat board.

[mjw930]

I seem to have the market cornered on negative ones lately.

It is like an wise ole fuzzy moderator from Miami once told me, (like, two days ago), John, it's just a chat board.

Nah, I think I beat you out on this thread, got dinged twice, once by roadtrip and one anonymous. Seems my "professionalism" comment hit too close to home. Oh well.

Poodle's right, it's only a chat board :yes:

I admin a board with 21000+ members and well over 1.4M posts, we turned off rep points after 2 months because they were distracting and really serve no purpose other than to piss people off. I kind of get a kick out of them...... :D

[roadtrip se]

Nah, I think I beat you out on this thread, got dinged twice, once by roadtrip and one anonymous. Seems my "professionalism" comment hit too close to home. Oh well.
Poodle's right, it's only a chat board :yes:
I admin a board with 21000+ members and well over 1.4M posts, we turned off rep points after 2 months because they were distracting and really serve no purpose other than to piss people off. I kind of get a kick out of them...... :D

Thanks everyone for the applause. Yes, I did use that little red button for the very first time, but as Mark has aknowledged, I don't think there was any doubt about where the love was coming from. What the heck, I got my share,
(one), so might as well share.

I would suggest a change to the software. These things shouldn't be anon. And since they are, for those who must, own up about who you are and make it very clear who sent the stuff.

I find that the feedback button is a very weak second to the IGNORE feature, if you feel the inclination to throw the negativity around.

[Carl C]

Hell, I didn't know the rep thing was there for almost a year after I joined. I seem to have the market cornered on negative ones lately.

It is like an wise ole fuzzy moderator from Miami once told me, (like, two days ago), John, it's just a chat board. With two green squares in a year and a half it's hard to believe you're being slammed with neg rep points.:wink:

[Donziweasel]

Getting alot of both. Don't blame anyone for dinging me. I have been stressed the past month and have definetly posted some controversial stuff.

I will say I would rather be called out when I piss someone off like Roadtrip and Barry did to me than the sneaky red ding. If I am wrong, and I was with my opening statement in this thread, I will apologize, and I did. I am never afraid of a good argument, have very strong opinions, and not afraid to speak my mind. I guess if you are like me, your gonna get your fair share of red dings. Just wish I knew who dinged me. Would let me know if I should apologize or blast em.:wink:

[Carl C]

I agree that it is chickencrap to send anonymous neg rep. I've only sent neg a couple times and the recipients knew where it came from and why!:smash: I'd much rather spread good cheer!:) BTW, I just googled your web site, Alltrans, Inc., and better understand what you do now. I thought you had a ski resort but it is a transpo company right? Is the ranch you are developing a commercial resort or just for you and family?

[Donziweasel]

No ski resort. Just passenger transportation and tours. Actually have two webites for both companies-

www.jacksonholealltrans.com
www.graylinejh.com

The Lazy P is just for me an Boo Boo, and hopefully, one day, a family. It is going to be designed to entertain and hope that some of you will come visit when it is done. Getting into the permit process now, what a headache.

[chappy]

If meaningless and anonymous critics dictate our course of action, i.e. what we type, why type at all? The fact that we acknowledge negative rep points just gives more incentive to the ones who give it to give it again. Don't give them the satisfaction. I've gotten my share, but I'm not going public with it. If we all posted everytime we got negative rep points, it would be like watching the Morton Downey Jr. show.

[Barry Eller]

Getting alot of both. Don't blame anyone for dinging me. I have been stressed the past month and have definetly posted some controversial stuff.
I will say I would rather be called out when I piss someone off like Roadtrip and Barry did to me than the sneaky red ding. If I am wrong, and I was with my opening statement in this thread, I will apologize, and I did. I am never afraid of a good argument, have very strong opinions, and not afraid to speak my mind. I guess if you are like me, your gonna get your fair share of red dings. Just wish I knew who dinged me. Would let me know if I should apologize or blast em.:wink:

It wasn't me. I don't use those buttons.

By the way, when do you work? Just an observation, you are on this "chat board" all the time.:wink:

[Carl C]

No ski resort. Just passenger transportation and tours. Actually have two webites for both companies-

www.jacksonholealltrans.com (http://www.jacksonholealltrans.com)
www.graylinejh.com (http://www.graylinejh.com)

The Lazy P is just for me an Boo Boo, and hopefully, one day, a family. It is going to be designed to entertain and hope that some of you will come visit when it is done. Getting into the permit process now, what a headache. Wow, that would be really cool if you could put together an event and provide lodging! Ok, back to car dealer talk. Didn't mean to hi-jack.

[Donziweasel]

Carl, I was thinking of hosting a small gathering next summer. Will have main lodge, guest cabin and bunk house, plus, plush wall tents. As you can see from my Avatar, we have some amazing lakes.

Barry, it is the end of the season and my job requirements are not very much right now. I get up at 5:30 A.M. everyday, work, chat on Donzi.net etc.... I am very busy in the fall and spring getting ready for the next season. Getting contracts ready, drivers trained, equipment switched from summer to winter mode and vice versa. When the season starts, Alltrans, Inc. is ready and my job isn't very trying. Getting it ready for a season is the hard part. When I get back from the Bahamas, you probably won't see me as much as I will be busy until mid-June.

[yeller]

DW, I'm too lazy to read the entire thread to see if you already mentioned this, but did you end up trading in your trucks, or are you/did you sell personally? Just curious.

[Donziweasel]

They are both on Autotrader right now.

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=241009160&dealer_id=62253485&car_year=2004&model=&num_records=25&systime=&make2=&start_year=2004&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&engine=&certified=&body_code=32&fuel=&awsp=false&search_type=both&distance=25&marketZipError=false&search_lang=en&make=FORD&keywords_display=&color=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=&body_style=TRUCKS&drive=&default_sort=priceDESC&max_mileage=&style_flag=2&sort_type=priceDESC&address=83001&advanced=&end_year=2004&doors=&transmission=&max_price=&cardist=0

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=241001207&dealer_id=62248365&car_year=2004&model=&num_records=25&systime=&make2=&start_year=2004&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&engine=&certified=&body_code=32&fuel=&awsp=false&search_type=both&distance=25&marketZipError=false&search_lang=en&make=FORD&keywords_display=&color=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=&body_style=TRUCKS&drive=&default_sort=priceDESC&max_mileage=&style_flag=2&sort_type=priceDESC&address=83001&advanced=&end_year=2004&doors=&transmission=&max_price=&cardist=0


I figure I have 8 weeks until delivery. If not sold a week before, will try ebay. If not sold by day of delivery, I will probably trade. Got a nibble on the F-150, nothing so far on the F-350