Scoreboard..... who is down and/or out?

[gold-n-rod]

From another thread.....

Buiz posted: "Travel Supreme Motorhomes shut down operations... no more innovative mid-engine, rear garage, coach's..

so did Deep Impact boats, shuttered *until the economy improves*...

Concept Boats just had a sizable layoff..."

We can use this thread to keep track.

Others?

[BUIZILLA]

VIP boats.... shuttered, this was a MAJOR loss to it's hometown...

[gold-n-rod]

From the "what goes around comes around" file.

In 1992, the maker of my big boat, Mach One of Monmouth IL, closed up shop. The guy I bought it from bought it at the factory liquidation auction for 50 cents on the dollar and passed along the savings to me.

The rest of the assets and many of the employees went to Envision Boats of Monmouth. I don't know if they are still building boats. The Mach One name went to the guy building Baha Cruisers in Florida. I don't know if he's still making Mach Ones today either.

Suddenly, it's the mid-80's or early 90's all over again. :(

[Tidbart]

I caught a news blurb about a week or two ago that SeaRay was laying off about 350 at their plant. I believe it is near Titusville.

B

[BUIZILLA]

Bear Sterns...

[Carl C]

Vic's Video Shack - Down and out of Dixieland Flea Market

CD's & More (my company) - Doing better than ever in Dixieland Flea Market! :smash:


Acouple of retail tips:
Find and implement prices people are willing to pay
Find out and stock what people want
Treat people as you like to be treated at a store

You want Blu-Ray discs? I've got 'em. New releases & discounts for .net members. 248.330.0048

[The Hedgehog]

Bear Sterns...

That is a huge deal. One of the street dealers going down is kind of like a great big bank failing. With their massive derivitives position, I don't know how anyone can value them. Even at $2 per share!

[gold-n-rod]

Bear Sterns...

They tanked from a high of $159 to $30 on Friday. Sold for $2/share. Ouch.

That hurts everyone, not just the fatcats. Pensions and other funds get stung, too. :(

[roadtrip se]

Can I suggest a few more names for this thread?

-"How about I bought too much house on an ARM and now I think the government should bail my a** out?"

-"How about I leveraged my home equity to buy vacations, cars, and whatever the he** else I felt like without regard to the consequences?"

-"How about I shop until I drop, I max out my credit cards, and then I transfer the balance to the next low rate offer that comes in the mail turning the whole thing into one giant furball?"

-"How about I am American and should not sweat? Why isn't a high school education worth $70 per hour on a unionized assembly line with retirement and medical benefits for life?"

-"How about, I love Walmart?"

-"How about, I LLLLUUUUVVVV the media and their fair, un-biased front page reporting on the economy and the implied promise that somebody will bail us out, name your poison here, with out any pain?"

BARF!

The point that I am trying to make is that this problem is not about sending a little checky out to the populace, there is a lot of finger pointing that is being done, but when will we look at ourselves and our habits?

Okay, I'm about to fall off the box or get kicked off...

Back to your regularily scheduled, downer programming....

I have heard that Donzi layed off forty people in the past few months. I also have heard that Formula sales were 50% of what they typically are at Miami. Uh oh...

[VetteLT193]

Can I suggest a few more names for this thread?
-"How about I bought too much house on an ARM and now I think the government should bail my a** out?"
...

The only thing that kills me about that is: WTF were the mortgage companies thinking? I think it's the mortgage companies fault first and foremost... they should take the biggest hit for issuing retarded loans to these people in the first place.

I know people that live down the road... this is their first house, paid 325k for it... got approved for a 100% (including closing costs) interest only ARM. Based on their salaries they have no business living in that house. If the crap hits the fan they have nothing to lose so they can just walk away. This is why in the past you had to put something down on a house to financially tie you to it if things go south.

Who's fault is the above scenario? The mortgagee has nothing to lose so why not? I think it's the mortgage company's problem. And the Gov't needs to stay the heck out of the way no matter what.

[Forrest]

-"How about . . . Uh oh...

How about my co-worker down the hall that bought the place on SR 30A near Seaside, Florida, for $450k with a interest-only loan and little money down, then ran out and got a home equity loan on the property to pay the interest-only loan payments and have a little spending cash. Whay not? At the time it appraised for about $600K and was heading up. Since "30A" beach property was going up so fast, he figured that he would just keep it for a few years, use it, then cut it loose for about $900K and really be in the money. Sure enough, just before before the real-estate fun ended, a few other like units sold for $800K to $850K. At that time, I advised him to sell, but he firmly said no not yet, because he "didn't want to leave any money on the table", since the real-estate market is surely going higher.

Now these same properties are being auctioned off bringing about $250K to $300K each.

He's still paying his both interest only mortgage and his home equity loan - for now.

You can blame the lender and I do for about half of the problem, but I think that Todd really hit the nail on the head with the perfect description of the short-sighted people who who went out and got these crazy loans.

[The Hedgehog]

The only thing that kills me about that is: WTF were the mortgage companies thinking? I think it's the mortgage companies fault first and foremost... they should take the biggest hit for issuing retarded loans to these people in the first place.
I know people that live down the road... this is their first house, paid 325k for it... got approved for a 100% (including closing costs) interest only ARM. Based on their salaries they have no business living in that house. If the crap hits the fan they have nothing to lose so they can just walk away. This is why in the past you had to put something down on a house to financially tie you to it if things go south.
Who's fault is the above scenario? The mortgagee has nothing to lose so why not? I think it's the mortgage company's problem. And the Gov't needs to stay the heck out of the way no matter what.


Stay tuned for the next wave! I would agree that the companies that broke fundemental rules of lending should not get a free ride. This first round wiped out the folks that were getting money for nothing or the folks that had no business borrowing. The next wave will hit late this summer or early fall. It will hit lot's of developers in less exotic areas that have been somewhat riding the wave too. Lot's of banks are in denial now. These guys have not missed any interest payments (so far) and it is secured by real estate. Ok so it is not a bad loan, or is it? Hmm, primary source of repayment..gone, secondary source or repayment....gone, what about that strong guarantor that had a big balance sheet...hmm, where is that liquidity now?

Don't get me wrong, experienced operators that have pulled back and managed their business risk will make it. Unfortunately a bunch of folks that were on the edge will get hit hard. Then there will be even more foreclosed inventory on the market and now mortgage underwriters are going to the other extreme and it is hard to get a mortgage. In the next wave you will see the banks take the hits. That is why they are trading at such cheap levels now.

All of this has been driven by breaking sound lending principals. This correction is long over due. The sad thing it that the longer it precipatated, the worse it was going to get when things fell apart. In some cases, I have almost enjoyed watching some justice getting served. It gets kind of frustrating to those that work hard seeing people with blind luck getting rich while feeling oh so smart. The other bad thing is that good people will get hurt too.

OK, lesson learned right. I don't think so. I have spent the last five years looking at bank credit portfolios. I have seen the same things that I read about in case studies time and again. Land flips, ponzi schemes and underwriter fraud have all taken place during real estate boom times. They will get stomped out now, but they will be back.

Man, writing this has gotten me down. I will need a beer after this.

[gold-n-rod]

[QUOTE=The Hedgehog;442263]Land flips, Donzi schemes and underwriter fraud have all taken place during real estate boom times.QUOTE]

Ruh-roh..... I am guilty of one of these!!! :smash::smash::smash: