Mustang Survival Life Vests

[brwn234]

I'm cant wait for the weather to break so I'm spending money to hold me over until then. I'm getting ready to buy a set of these:

http://www.mustangsurvival.com/products/product.php?id=407&mc=4

One for me and one for the wife. I figure safety is one thing you dont want to put off. I dont think I need to invest in Life Lines. These are rated to 100mph, have a collar to keep you head up and more importantly they match the boat. I Froogles them and found them for just over $70. What do you guys think?

[yeller]

Nice jackets, but even though they're rated to 100mph doesn't mean they'll stay on at that speed. Without crotch straps it'll be ripped off at much less. Also the lifelines have impact material to help protect you when you smash into the dash and/or steering wheel on the way out.

Very nice looking jackets, but they are floatation devices, not 100mph safety vests.

But...that being said...I might want a couple myself. :) Where did you get them for $70?

[SilverBack]

I think that I am going to get a couple too. Where is the best place to get the Life Line jackets?? Does the DOC have them with the Donzi logo on them??

[roadtrip se]

on Lifeline jackets on this forum. The merits of the various performance jackets has been discussed in great detail in the past here.

In my opinion, you get what you pay for in terms of protection, but something is better than nothing.

[Tidbart]

I think that I am going to get a couple too. Where is the best place to get the Life Line jackets?? Does the DOC have them with the Donzi logo on them??

Just a side note on some/all of the Lifelines or some others. They aren't CG approved. This by no means has anything to do with quality, but you still must meet the requirements for CG approved PFD onboard. For example, if you have 4 people onboard wearing non-approved PFDs, you must still have 4 approved PFDs onboard also, a total of 8.

Bob

[mjw930]

If you take the time to break down a lifeline you see that although it has some valuable impact protection it's flotation is nothing special. The leg straps that prevent you from losing the jacket are one of it's selling points but I know of many who use the Mustang and other PWC speed rated jackets that are CG approved and they don't lose them when they are ejected from 80 mph PWC's and land feet first into the water. Their reduced weight and easier mobility also makes them easier to use and that alone may get more people to actually use the jacket rather then simply have it aboard.

Now, with that said, if you truly pilot your boat as if you were on an offshore race course, i.e. you have a 80 mph+ boat that spends as much time in the air as it does on the water then yes, you could probably stand the extra impact protection of the Lifeline. For the rest I think it's a bit more "posing" than performance that's behind their choice in jackets. I certainly don't think that someone wearing this particular Mustang jacket is any less protected than someone wearing a Poker Run edition Lifeline. (Flame suit on :cool: )

[Carl C]

These PFD threads usually get a little heated and that's why I deleted my first response. One problem is that I carry at least 6 quality neoprenes in all sizes for guests to use. I feel that a snug, high quality neo with zipper and straps is enough for a 75 mph boat. I'm not going to purchase an array of lifeline vests. I'm not crazy about the Mustangs pictured. You can find good neos for $40 that used to cost $100 if you shop around (try Costco). One question for those who swear that you must have a lifeline with legstraps and impact protection: Are you prepared to offer the same level of protection to any and all size guests? If not, how do you justify wearing a lifeline and offering passengers cheaper vests? I've also wondered if the leg straps get uncomfortable?

[yeller]

One thing about Costco vests are their poor choice in color. They are always mostly black and blue in color. At least that's the way it is here. The dark colors are amazingly difficult to locate even in a minor chop if you don't know exactly where the person is.
I'm not knocking anyone because I admit I don't have the proper vests myself. I am looking at the moment and am considering a pair of lifelines, but at the very least...what I get will be mostly red, yellow or orange. Luckily, my boat is yellow......so which color do you think I'll get? :wink:

BTW Carl, as for guest vests, I don't run hard with passengers. I'm considering the lifeline for myself when I want to wring it out.
If I get one, I'll have to get two...because I'm married and I'm sure you can imagine the conversation if I only get one. :biggrin.:

[roadtrip se]

Quote from my friend, Mr. Gerometta, just this past weekend, which catches the essence of this entire subject.

I do get a chuckle out of all of the ways we come up with to NOT justify buying and wearing good life vests for ourselves and our passengers.

Comfort, we aren't that fast, we can't afford it, CG certification, construction, and all of the others. Excuses.
Again, buy what you can afford and use the things. It really is that simple.

Want to have some fun? Try this one. Go get a pumpkin or some other squash, run your boat up to 70 which IS a speed a lot of us are capable of, have a passenger give the offending pumpkin the toss, and circle around to see what happens to it, if you can even find it.

As ridiculous as it sounds, we did this one time, and the sucker was split cleanly in half like a knife had been used on it.
Obvious next step, imagine that pumpkin as part of you.

I have used Lifelines since 1995. They are my preference. Carl and others, if you want to send a PM to me with specific questions about my experience with them, I'll give you some feedback. And again, there are a ton of knowledgable posts on this topic out here, just hit the search function and read away.

[Carl C]

Yeller, you're right on about the colors! Mine are all different and none are yellow. Todd, and I'm not trying to be argumentative, but that $10 head analogy has been discussed here before and I don't buy it. One could also make a case for wearing helmets and goggles at all times. I've taken a lot of high speed spills skiing and tubing and a few on PWCs and never had a neoprene come close to failing. Yours and Yeller's boats are faster than mine and if I get into the 80s I may buy lifelines but I'll have to buy a bunch of them in different sizes because I won't offer a passenger lesser protection than myself. That reminds me of the early days of airbags in cars where only the driver had one; the hell with the passenger! Here's a pic of the vests I currently keep on board. Only the right 2 match. The center front one is the one I wear.

[mjw930]

SE,

Are the Lifeline's you wear the racing or the recreational versions? Only the racing versions have flack material (I know I own one). If you wear the recreational version then you aren't getting any more protection than the Mustang listed here IMHO, you're simply paying an additional $200 for the name. If you wear the racing version, with the flack protection and leg straps (and yes, they do get uncomfortable if you wear them all day adjusted properly) then you absolutely have the best protection money can buy and I applaud your dedication to safety.

What really gets my goat is watching all of the Poker Run videos with so few people wearing anything. Sure, some have all the gear but most are shirtless and some even allow their passengers to lounge around while they are shooting 4 foot waves at 80 mph. I guess it's OK to spend half a mill on a boat but heaven forbid you don't look like Joe Cook, Mr. Invincible when the chopper gets close. :smash:

As for what's better, I really think that's subjective. I am not aware of any scientific testing that's been done along the lines of DOT, SNELL or ECE 22.05 with regard to life vests. Without that objective, scientific testing you really have to rely on your sense of comfort and go with what you can afford.

The fact that the CG has a criteria for approval of a PFD at least gives you a level of comfort that the device will meet minimal requirements. I can't for the life of me understand why Lifeline doesn't submit their recreational vests for certification. I'm certain they would pass with flying colors.

My bottom line, wearing something is better than leaving an uncomfortable vest in the locker. My wife and I wear auto inflatable vests most of the time and when I'm alone in the boat doing prop testing or other high risk activities I try to always wear my Lifeline. Luckily I've only been ejected from a race boat, I've never taken an unplanned swim from one of my pleasure boats and I hope to keep it that way.

[Sweet little 16]

something is not always better than nothing, a big part of USCG approval is for type III pfd is to turn the victim up with their head above water not hold it under That's why ski belts are history, in a race jacket it might be more important to have a chute or protection against a high speed impact as with racers there is usually a safety crew with in seconds away to pluck them out , think about being in the water knocked out or there for hours or days in some cases before help gets there for the recreational boater was the first thing they went over in our NJ pwc certification course

would be interested to see why the lifelines are not approved
and the CG has to cover more types of boating like the the kyacker who hits his head on a rock blow boats and passengers stranded at sea they probably do some impact testing but probably not at the sppeds some here are running
wonder if Todd would be willing to jump off the dock at an event in his life line for some real world testing ;)

[boxy]

The fact that the CG has a criteria for approval of a PFD at least gives you a level of comfort that the device will meet minimal requirements. I can't for the life of me understand why Lifeline doesn't submit their recreational vests for certification. I'm certain they would pass with flying colors.

Lifeline doesn't submit vests for CG approval because you have to supply a vest in each size you sell for approval, and because the majority of Lifelines are custom sized it would be impossible to get them all certified.

The Compvest #170 and the Poker Run #160 vest have the same amount of impact foam, the Compvest #170 has an extra layer of flak type material.

[mjw930]

I've jumped off a dock and been thrown from a boat doing 80 mph with my race jacket and both times it righted me face up. The rear has marginal flotation but it does have impact protection. Most all of the foam is in the front, that serves to right a person heads up.

One correction, I have an SRP, not a Lifeline. http://www.securityrace.com/lifejackets.html

http://www.securityrace.com/images/400_OutboardJkt.jpg

[Sweet little 16]

Lifeline doesn't submit vests for CG approval because you have to supply a vest in each size you sell for approval, and because the majority of Lifelines are custom sized it would be impossible to get them all certified.
The Compvest #170 and the Poker Run #160 vest have the same amount of impact foam, the Compvest #170 has an extra layer of flak type material.

i am sure the lifelines turn you face up i was trying to get Todd to jump off the dock ;)

[roadtrip se]

Carl, I vote for neoprene. Don't get so dang emotional about it. Want some more gasoline for the fire? Help me understand how your experience hitting the water after falling off of a ski at 35mph compares to hitting it at twice that rate from a boat?

MJW, my vests are flack lined, poker run versions. I have worn the race versions and the main difference is the amount of additional padding and the chute attachments. As for the comfort factor, I have been wearing them for a long, long time leg straps and all. It isn't a big deal. I don't feel comfortable without it now.

As for the CG requirement, the response that we get from Lifeline when asked this question is that the CG requires significant testing data. The number I remember is 100 statistical examples. Lifeline is a specialized, small volume manuafacturer, not a Stearns, so it just doesn't make financial sense to go after this certification.

SW16, I'm going in only if you push me!

[boxy]

i am sure the lifelines turn you face up i was trying to get Todd to jump off the dock ;)
If he won't jump, I'll throw him .... :D
It'll have to be stealthy, and I may need protection after.... :smash:

[mjw930]

Lifeline doesn't submit vests for CG approval because you have to supply a vest in each size you sell for approval, and because the majority of Lifelines are custom sized it would be impossible to get them all certified.

The Compvest #170 and the Poker Run #160 vest have the same amount of impact foam, the Compvest #170 has an extra layer of flak type material.

The 160 has 1" foam on the front and 1/2" foam in the rear (taken directly from a dealers website). I thought the 170 was 2" front and 1" rear with flack material. I guess I thought that since my SRP has 2" front foam.

Regardless, the foam is not what provides the hard impact resistance, it's the solid "flack" material that allows them to pass competition regulations. IMHO the Mustang above has just as much "impact" foam as the recreational SRP and Lifeline jackets. The only thing they have over the Mustang are the leg straps.

As for sizing, the Lifeline and SRP recreational are really only made in 3 sizes, they will do custom but those could simply be the one's without certification.

[mjw930]

Todd,

You must have a custom ordered Poker Run edition, their stock 160 recreational doesn't have flack protection (not that it's needed in our situations anyway).

Regardless, I see that life jacket discussions get just as heated and helmet discussion do on motorcycle forums :)

I didn't mean to fuel the fire.

[brwn234]

What did I start? I should have known better. My 22zx doesnt go any faster than 65. I'd have to go alot faster than that to make me feel like I need the protection of a Lifeline jacket. Then the cost will be nothing compared to the money I spent on speed. I'm gonna buy the mustangs and only use them when its really rough or I'm driving like I stole it. I usually drive like an old man anyway.

[boxy]

As for sizing, the Lifeline and SRP recreational are really only made in 3 sizes, they will do custom but those could simply be the one's without certification.
On Lifeline's webpage there is no ability to buy a L or XL #160 vest. I wonder if the price reduction we are seeing from some re-sellers is due to the fact that they, not Lifeline, are ordering a specific size in bulk, then passing that savings on.

[Carl C]

Carl, I vote for neoprene. Don't get so dang emotional about it. Want some more gasoline for the fire? Help me understand how your experience hitting the water after falling off of a ski at 35mph compares to hitting it at twice that rate from a boat?

Todd, I'm sorry if I came across harsh. I didn't mean to. PFD threads always seem to stir up some emotions and I should have stayed out of this one. I slalom ski at 37 mph and have read that the skiers speed on a hard cut is near 70 mph and that is when the wipeouts happen. I've also had some wicked wipeouts from a tube being whipped around. Just wanted to clarify that, now I think I'll stay out of this one!:popcorn:

[roadtrip se]

Sorry guys for jumping on this one with such energy today.

We attend a few rallys every year. They are an absolute ball.
God forbid, if something were to happen at one of these events, a life vest of any sort, has got to help.

Last year, I saw more people wearing good quality vests of their chosing than ever before.

Pretty cool...

[SilverBack]

Poodle mentioned in a different thread that Top Notch had the Life Line vest. They are an advertiser here and they have the Life Line vest for under $300. Not bad!!