PDA

View Full Version : Used blower?



fasttrucker
03-06-2008, 01:50 PM
I can buy a used blower from my shop.Will it be ok?Any drawbacks?

SilverBack
03-06-2008, 01:52 PM
What kind of blower? How old? How many hours are on it?

Does it have an intercooler with it?

ky-donzi
03-06-2008, 02:12 PM
I bought a used procharger M1-SCB off of OSO last week. It is suppost to be in great condition 1 season of use. Do your reseach and find out what a total overhaul would cost from who ever made it. I called procharger and the price I paid for the used complete set up + the complete overhaul was still about 1000 cheaper than new. So I felt ok aobut it

The Hedgehog
03-06-2008, 03:02 PM
I bought a used procharger M1-SCB off of OSO last week. It is suppost to be in great condition 1 season of use. Do your reseach and find out what a total overhaul would cost from who ever made it. I called procharger and the price I paid for the used complete set up + the complete overhaul was still about 1000 cheaper than new. So I felt ok aobut it

I am glad to hear that you are stepping up to the plate!

When are you putting it in.

Last Real Texan
03-06-2008, 03:03 PM
I can buy a used blower from my shop.Will it be ok?Any drawbacks?
been waiting for this...........

The Hedgehog
03-06-2008, 03:04 PM
I can buy a used blower from my shop.Will it be ok?Any drawbacks?


You definately need a blower. That would go great with that big 502 you got.:shocking:

What kind is it?

BUIZILLA
03-06-2008, 06:13 PM
if I wire my vacuum cleaner backwards it becomes a blower too.. :doh:

ky-donzi
03-06-2008, 08:39 PM
if I wire my vacuum cleaner backwards it becomes a blower too.. :doh:


Oh, dang I thought he was talking about a bilge blower...haha.

BG....got it off OSO. Plan on putting it on in the next two wks. Its currently in Pa at brothers house, its getin on plane this wkend to Ky.

The Hedgehog
03-07-2008, 08:27 AM
Oh, dang I thought he was talking about a bilge blower...haha.

BG....got it off OSO. Plan on putting it on in the next two wks. Its currently in Pa at brothers house, its getin on plane this wkend to Ky.

That is pretty exciting. Your boat will be a screamer. Keep us posted on the results

The Hedgehog
03-07-2008, 08:33 AM
if I wire my vacuum cleaner backwards it becomes a blower too.. :doh:

I actually wired my bilge blowers with a reverse switch. I cut a couple of extra holes and am using about 5,000 cfm of bilge blower pumps to pressurize my whole engine compartment. I then sealed it off kind of like a big carb box.:convertib:

I figure that between that, my labbed prop, speed wax, a K&M filter, some better spark plug wires, some cleaner riser pipes and painting my lower unit in flat black, I should pick up at least 10mph:hangum:

ky-donzi
03-07-2008, 08:56 AM
BG.....FUNY

Have you ever heard of a "rock dust blower" they are used in mining to move large amount of air for blowing lime dust on coal mine shaft walls to reduce fire hazzards.
About 10 years ago a friend inherrited his uncles buick 225. The old man had went to a rest home, he had drove his car until the day he when to the rest home, some days drunk. Needless to say the car was a total mess, a 78 year old drunk is not a very good driver. Anyway we had a rock dust blower left over from some equipment we had worked on, and mated it to the 307.

The results were not too great but to see a crashed up early 80's Buick 225 with a whole cut in the hood and a peice of mining equipment sticking out was a sight. I will look for a picture of it.

Check out this link http://www.republicsales.com/Roots_RCS_817_Thru_827.pdf

The Hedgehog
03-07-2008, 09:13 AM
BG.....FUNY

Have you ever heard of a "rock dust blower" they are used in mining to move large amount of air for blowing lime dust on coal mine shaft walls to reduce fire hazzards.
About 10 years ago a friend inherrited his uncles buick 225. The old man had went to a rest home, he had drove his car until the day he when to the rest home, some days drunk. Needless to say the car was a total mess, a 78 year old drunk is not a very good driver. Anyway we had a rock dust blower left over from some equipment we had worked on, and mated it to the 307. =


The results were not too great but to see a crashed up early 80's Buick 225 with a whole cut in the hood and a peice of mining equipment sticking out was a sight. I will look for a picture of it.

Check out this link http://www.republicsales.com/Roots_RCS_817_Thru_827.pdf

That is a great story. Mad Max all the way. You need to find some pics.

LKSD
03-07-2008, 09:57 AM
Bill,

you may or may not be ok with it. I suggest you price a new one first to compare what you are getting for your money. If you call me I can give you a rough # $ on one.

Things to ask & ponder on ths used one:

How many hours are on it? how old is it? was it ever rebuilt? Who made it? What size unit is it? What kind of condition is it in mechanically & cosmetically?

If it isnt in great shape you may have to rebuild it, also as it is a used unit you will probably have no warranty..

IMO sometimes it is better to buy new..

Also FYI:

From what you told me when we last spoke, I would recomend you use a 250 series blower & definitley intercool it for your application. Also you wont want to put much boost to your existing set up given the current compression ratio, otherwise you are asking for trouble..

:) Jamie / Lakeside

Stan
03-08-2008, 01:09 AM
I happen to have a BDS 671 blower for sale. I bought it for a 1934 hot rod truck I was building but I have changed direction and would like to sell the blower.

Let me know if interested.

thx

Stan

fasttrucker
03-08-2008, 12:15 PM
What kind of blower? How old? How many hours are on it?

Does it have an intercooler with it?
I think he said it was a b+m?....My shop is checking with the owner on price.Hope to find out more this week.
I thought the b+m company,they make beans,baked from maine?

zimm17
03-09-2008, 07:19 AM
I bought a used blower and it works just fine so far. It was a whipple EFI blower and it fits under the engine hatch.

I priced a new setup from whipple and it came out to $11,500 for the blower, injectors, ECU, harness, and distributor.

The used set-up came with all of that, plus a big electric fuel pump and boost referenced fuel regulator for $5000. It's an older 2.3L model and he was moving up the new 3.3L unit.

I still had to buy $500 worth of hoses, AN fittings, in line filter, boost and oil temp gauges.

ECU tuning was another $250

Then a new prop.

Then you need hyd steering.

SilverBack
03-09-2008, 08:39 AM
I know exactly what you are talking about. It is a huge mistake to just find a used blower and think that you are going to get out that easy. I have been around racing in many different forms and I never intend on racing my boat at all but this has easily turned into the biggest snowballing project in my life. One thing after the other.

Oh ..I found a good deal on a blower......Well, I will need to change the head gaskets....well I will have the heads off ...I may as well go over the heads.....I may as well put some good aluminum head on if I am going to do all that and do it right.....Well.....the engine is out and with all that power from the heads and blower..I may as well go though the bottom end.....I need to go ahead and balance the bottom end and magniflux everything...Why not just go ahead and spend a little extra on some good forged long rod rotating assembly????....I know that I am not going to totally redo my engine and not go with a new cam.... Great I am just about done..finaly.....Wow I am making a good bit of power now...The Bravo will never hold up.....Damn..I am going to have to spend 8500 on an XR or IMCO SC drive...Oh this is really starting to hurt!!!....What it will not be safe with out hydraulic steering??? There goes another 4500....This has got to end soon this is crazy!!! OK now that I have all of this beefed up stuff ...you are telling me that I have got to loose my exhaust?? I need dry exhaust and I have to loose my captain call??? That is going to really suck!! Ok 3500 for exhaust!!.....Now ..This thing is really going to need a good boat tuner/setup guy....well here goes another 10K....Oh and now we are finally to gauges, pulleys, hoses, etc..etc..etc.. Wow I finally made it!! I can't believe how out of hand that got but now I finally made it!! ..........I need what ....Labbed props and blue printed props and ...... I sure that it will all be worth it when that speedometer goes past 80...and 85....and 90..yes ..I guess it is worth it!!!!!!
But don't fool yourself!! It is not as easy as ..I found a good deal on a blower!!! That 3,000 to 5,000 that seems like such a good deal can easily turn into 35,000 to 50,000 before you are done...especially if you want to do it right!!

BOAT= (B)reak (O)ut (A)nother (T)thousand!! There is a lot of truth to that!!

Fast, Cheap, Reliable.....Only two of these will go together..The third will surely be left out!!

Ed Donnelly
03-09-2008, 09:05 AM
502stang; Sounds like you got off lucky..
Appears you already had the K-Planes on the Donzi.
That saved you some big bucks:wink::wink: ...Ed

SilverBack
03-09-2008, 09:08 AM
Ed..I had a lot of luck..Just don't know if it was good or bad. You are right..I thew those things under the etc.etc. part. Don't forget the mechanical trim and tab indicators!!! That is 1500 by the time you get them put in!

ky-donzi
03-09-2008, 01:08 PM
502stang

How much boost are you running?

I wasn't planing on new head gaskets, ect. I've got about 60hrs on my engine and was going with the 5psi on my 350mag. I relize that the engine was not desgned for supercharging, but street engines are boosted higher than that on a regular bases, with aftermarket kits and no intercoolers. I figured that the marine engines have got to be better inside, and runner a cooler boost. I guess that one answer might be that street engines don't remain in boost situations as long marine engines but many will do 5 psi at highway speeds. I really think that if set correct low psi boost would not be harmful....... Am I badly mistaking????

I once new a guy who kept overdriving a supercharger on a lighting truck until the dipstick finally blew out, I guess from all the blow by created... but the head gaskets stayed.......I"M Not considering this amount of boost, but at 5 psi I would figure that it would not change the life expencty too awful much????

SilverBack
03-09-2008, 07:07 PM
Let me start by saying..I am NO expert!! There are a lot of guys on here that know a lot more than I do.

With that being said...I have heard it from a bunch of people here and on OSO and my engine builder and engine tuner/boat setup guy. Take what you know about street and strip engines and throw it out the window. Street cars don't go down the highway at 4500 to 5500 rpm's. They are just different. The main places that I have learned that superchargers will get you are with the head gaskets and exhaust valve. Blown engines that stay in boost for a few minutes to a few hours get the exhaust valves really hot. It only takes one valve to fail and you have a BLOWN as in busted engine. They head gaskets are not to be changed because they are old but because they are made of a different material. Your cylinder pressures go way up with a supercharger. No engine will live with detonation no matter how good the parts. That is a given. I am not talking about getting rid of detonation. I am talking about increased cylinder pressure and increased burn temperatures.

I am not saying what will and will not work! I am sure that someone maybe a lot of someones have just slapped on a supercharger with 5 PSI of boost and never had a problem. I do think that forged rods and forged crank and forged pistons would make me feel a lot better about things! Better bearings made for higher stresses. Oiling concerns. Are all things to think about!

Good luck! You are where I was about 45,000 dollars ago!

SilverBack
03-09-2008, 07:13 PM
I forgot to answer the boost question. I still have my engine on the dyno. We have made pulls at 3psi, 5psi and 7psi. The big difference is at 7psi I have to run 93 octane gas. At 3 psi and 5psi I can run 89 octane. I have a lot more going on besides just boost though and
I have a very unusual setup. We just wanted to get all of the data and the CPU programs for the different boost while it is on the dyno.

fasttrucker
03-10-2008, 11:57 AM
My engine has been completely redone.First I added s.m.exhaust(keeping the quick+quiet) and a remap of the computer,k+n air intake.Then 2yrs later I had the motor sent to the mackine shop,exturne honed block, c+c crank,craine hp500 cam,victor jr. intake, holly double pumper carb,msd ign.new german timing chain,gold race rocker arms,ect.(dumped the quick+quiet)(Had to run double wall exhaust pipes thru the transom,to avoid water reverision)I ran that set-up two years.Last year I added the alum. heads, new 605hp cam,hyd steering.Iam at 10-1 comp. So If I add the blower I will need to open up the heads a little.Iam still running the stock bravo-1,but I did change the lower unit to a low water pickup unit with a drive shower.Iam now at 75mph gps.Iam not sure that I will add the blower with :garfield:gas prices,I run high test grade.Last year I went 100 hours on motor,this year I plan to run less.I really should wait another season.

LKSD
03-10-2008, 01:09 PM
That comp ratio is high for adding a blower to a motor.. ;) Jamie

The Hedgehog
03-10-2008, 01:25 PM
Eddie Young has used blowers on engines with up to 10-1. For higher comp ratio apps he likes whipples with intercoolers. I think he also uses MEFI-4 for a more precise control of AF ratio and knock.

I think just slapping a roots blower on a 10-1 engine would be pretty dangerous. Not saying that it could not be done, but I would want a big superchiller and some pretty precise tuning.

The Hedgehog
03-10-2008, 01:39 PM
502stang

How much boost are you running?

I wasn't planing on new head gaskets, ect. I've got about 60hrs on my engine and was going with the 5psi on my 350mag. I relize that the engine was not desgned for supercharging, but street engines are boosted higher than that on a regular bases, with aftermarket kits and no intercoolers. I figured that the marine engines have got to be better inside, and runner a cooler boost. I guess that one answer might be that street engines don't remain in boost situations as long marine engines but many will do 5 psi at highway speeds. I really think that if set correct low psi boost would not be harmful....... Am I badly mistaking????

I once new a guy who kept overdriving a supercharger on a lighting truck until the dipstick finally blew out, I guess from all the blow by created... but the head gaskets stayed.......I"M Not considering this amount of boost, but at 5 psi I would figure that it would not change the life expencty too awful much????

I think it has a good bit to do with how much time you stay in boost. That is what makes the higher cylinder pressures. If you cruise pulling vacuum instead of boost, your gaskets should last longer. Last Real Texan may have a few picks of what factory head gaskets look like after boost. Understand that his were from a Procharged 500EFI making some good power. He ran for a couple of seasons mostly cruising slow but did get quite a few 80+ mph runs in boost. I am thinking that his would have burned through somewhere around the middle of next summer.

Your boat should be able to have a quite solid cruise before boost comes on line. With my 27ZX, I was running around 60 or so before it started to come on line.

ky-donzi
03-10-2008, 02:06 PM
BG ZX

That is kinda what I was thinkin.
I relize that marine vs. street are two different things, I don't guess I was clear in one of my other post on this topic. I believe that marine engines are much stronger. What I was saying in the other post is that some street engine with aftermarket blowers are in boost at highway speeds. I know a guy that has a 5.4 ford truck and added a eaton supercharger non-intercooled that is a 2-3 psi at highway speed. I was assuming that as long as I didn't stay at 5 psi for extended amounts of time that I would be ok. I hope to cruise at 60ish and maybe 1-2 psi of boost around 4000ish RPM. I may be all wrong about this. I have never supercharged a boat.

I bought this kit from a guy in Penn. He got it from Jamie at Lakeside. Close to Scranton PA. He ran it for a season on a Checkmate 26' with no problems. He was hoping for 12mph, he only got 9 so pulled the small block and went with a BBC non boost. According to him with all the money and time to swap from SBC-SC to BBC natural asperated he gained 2 mph over previous setup.

The Hedgehog
03-10-2008, 03:11 PM
BG ZX

That is kinda what I was thinkin.
I relize that marine vs. street are two different things, I don't guess I was clear in one of my other post on this topic. I believe that marine engines are much stronger. What I was saying in the other post is that some street engine with aftermarket blowers are in boost at highway speeds. I know a guy that has a 5.4 ford truck and added a eaton supercharger non-intercooled that is a 2-3 psi at highway speed. I was assuming that as long as I didn't stay at 5 psi for extended amounts of time that I would be ok. I hope to cruise at 60ish and maybe 1-2 psi of boost around 4000ish RPM. I may be all wrong about this. I have never supercharged a boat.

I bought this kit from a guy in Penn. He got it from Jamie at Lakeside. Close to Scranton PA. He ran it for a season on a Checkmate 26' with no problems. He was hoping for 12mph, he only got 9 so pulled the small block and went with a BBC non boost. According to him with all the money and time to swap from SBC-SC to BBC natural asperated he gained 2 mph over previous setup.

I would think that a 60ish cruise will not be a problem and I doubt that you will be in the boost at that speed but I am not totally sure since I have not boosted a small block.....Yet:eek!:

Your top end will be frightening:shocking:

DONZI
03-10-2008, 04:39 PM
Here's a boost chart for you to see where you are at with 10-1 CR. Too high to be practical.
http://www.blowerdriveservice.com/techcharts.php
The BM 420 would be similiar to the 671.There is also a BM serpentine driven small blower.

For the 420.There is also the addl. keyway that needs to be cut into the crank snout to drive the pulley to consider. Besides the Blower specific Carbs.,linkages etc.etc.

fasttrucker
03-11-2008, 10:44 AM
That comp ratio is high for adding a blower to a motor.. ;) JamieOne shop I talked to said to put the old heads back on.Tony at cms said he could open-up the heads.:smash:Alum heads disapate the heat better then stock heads.I just got my my visa c.c. bill oh-no,:doh:looks like no blower for me this year!:garfield:

The Hedgehog
03-11-2008, 11:00 AM
One shop I talked to said to put the old heads back on.Tony at cms said he could open-up the heads.:smash:Alum heads disapate the heat better then stock heads.I just got my my visa c.c. bill oh-no,:doh:looks like no blower for me this year!:garfield:

Yes, to some point you can add some cc's to the combustion chamber. That is way out of my league. It has a good bit to do with your displacement. I would imaging that someone around here might have an idea. When you did your machine work do you remember how much CR came from decking the block vs pistons vs heads?

Yes, aluminum heads are more detonation friendly

SilverBack
03-11-2008, 11:57 AM
You could always just go with some dish pistons.

The Hedgehog
03-11-2008, 04:12 PM
You could always just go with some dish pistons.


And if you do that, you might as well go for the 540 crank since you have all of that good hardware. It would also be a shame to do all that without a good EFI. Don't forget the extreme drive.

I think that he is trying to avoid being like you and me! :hangum: I was thinking that the only way he could do it without going into the internals would be to do some work on the heads. I frankly don't know if that would work.

The Hedgehog
03-12-2008, 08:29 AM
Of course the smarter option would be to wait a season or two. If he is loggin 100 hours a summer on the built 502 he may be around 200-300 hours on the bottom end work by now. After that do it when he freshens. Then he could do those dish pistons, a blower cam and so on. But that would not be any fun would it?

Or roll the dice, slap on a blower and cooler. :eek!: Then it will be time to freshen next winter for sure. But then a mid summer melt down followed by a hurried rebuild would kind of suck.

fasttrucker
03-12-2008, 12:23 PM
Hey,good news!Iam buying a HVH Super Sucker Carb Spacer!for get this $97.00...........10 to 20 HP.Iam I the MAN or what look out you cat boats...this season YOU LOSE!!!!!!!!:propeller:
Notice>This is humor,sorry,not meant to offend/insult cat boat owners:hangum:

BUIZILLA
03-12-2008, 01:47 PM
uh huh...

DONZI
03-13-2008, 03:29 PM
My Super Sucker arrived the other day !:smash:


http://inlinethumb42.webshots.com/25769/2829773230101021175S500x500Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2829773230101021175UNuSGk)

ky-donzi
03-13-2008, 05:03 PM
HEY DONZI

What type of hull do you have?

Let me show you what you have to look foward to if you have a Classic.......BTW if you do have a Classic get a tool caddy "see pic #2" It is a must to keep from having to get in and out!!!!!

DONZI
03-13-2008, 06:23 PM
HEY DONZI

What type of hull do you have?

Let me show you what you have to look foward to if you have a Classic.......BTW if you do have a Classic get a tool caddy "see pic #2" It is a must to keep from having to get in and out!!!!!
22 Classic.
Yes,
I have spent many a night in that same position. My tool Caddy say's "Your on your own !" :) So it becomes a great workout climbing in & out.:nilly:
Keep us up to date with the project. My blower project is a future thing (see pic).:smash:

Last Real Texan
03-13-2008, 07:58 PM
22 Classic.
Yes,
I have spent many a night in that same position. My tool Caddy say's "Your on your own !" :) So it becomes a great workout climbing in & out.:nilly:
Keep us up to date with the project. My blower project is a future thing (see pic).:smash:
Looks like the bracket came from a 500EFI kit...

SilverBack
03-13-2008, 09:30 PM
My bracket is solid. I was wondering about what kit this bracket went to.

DONZI
03-14-2008, 05:26 AM
Yes, it is for a 502 MPI.
I intend on using a Carb. set up.
I know "Carb's are meant to be sucked thru,not blown thru".:)
But we wil see if a properly prepped Carb. will work correctly when the time comes.

The Hedgehog
03-14-2008, 08:30 AM
You guys are all not well!

I am very glad that I had my Procharger polished when I started in on mine. I would feel VERY left out.

undertaker
03-14-2008, 12:50 PM
Yes, it is for a 502 MPI.
I intend on using a Carb. set up.
I know "Carb's are meant to be sucked thru,not blown thru".:)
But we wil see if a properly prepped Carb. will work correctly when the time comes.

Damn Kenny you have done some serious upgrades since I saw ya in Lake Winni :eek!::eek!::eek!:

Looking forward to running with ya this summer...

BigGrizzly
03-14-2008, 02:08 PM
Well I have a blow through system, mine works fine. I also run4.7 psi of boost, with 9.7 compression ratio. That chart is really good for roots system but only close for centrifugal systems. However its whats there. As for opening up the heads , be carefull of detonation. Opening up the heads for your application may or may not help much. It is all about the combination. T%his is why a back yard jockey is not a match for a pro. I though I was good with motors until I got mine done, than the boys pulled another forty out of it just working on the carb. I learn more in that time then I did in the previous 4 years.