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gcarter
02-28-2008, 08:21 PM
Dennis Simanaitis, technical editor of Road & Track magazine has a very interesting article in the March edition about the afore mentioned power sources. Every since I was involved with NASA during the Apollo program, I've been fascinated with fuel cells. According to the article one of the hurdles now is hydrogen distribution. This form of energy is finally looking like a possibility, depending on fuel availability. The size is down, power seems adequate, no bettery packs to replace, don't know how long the cell stacks will last though.
But when more than one manufacturer starts leasing programs, it may be getting close.:yes:
Here's the URL;
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=18&article_id=6401

And here's the article if you're unmotivated;

Tech Tidbits
I'm Just Wild About Fuel Cells

By Dennis Simanaitis, Engineering Editor

March 2008
I confess, I'm enthusiastic about fuel cells. And, as confirmed by no less than GM, Honda and Toyota, so are others in the automotive community.

Toyota's Fuel-cell Commitment
Having experienced it firsthand (see my Fairbanks-to-Vancouver drive, January 2008), I wasn't surprised by Toyota's commitment to fuel-cell technology as witnessed in a Japan trip not long ago. Nevertheless, I was blown away in learning about EPT, its Electric Power Train building in Toyota City, near Nagoya. This eight-story facility is said to employ 1500 people, all dedicated to fuel-cell, hybrid and battery R&D. One day I must get inside this place.

On the same trip, I did get inside the company's Higashi Fuji Proving Grounds and, indeed, while there, into Toyota's latest plug-in hybrid (admittedly not a fuel-cell vehicle, but certainly a bridge to them). A Prius modified for extended pure-electric operation, its recharging comes from either its onboard gasoline engine or your friendly local electric utility via an ordinary plug.

I drove two cars, both using nickel/metal-hydride batteries. Although Toyota is evidently doing lots of lithium research, thus far it hasn't announced any schedule for introducing this technology. (See "Are Lithium Batteries the Answer?" R&T, October 2007, for my own modest contribution to all this.)

The nickel/metal-hydride packs of these Prius plug-ins are designed to simulate lithium performance of acceleration and cruise, albeit not of range. Both cars easily travel 60 mph in pure electric mode. The better of the two could be throttled into and out of gasoline-engine operation with an educated right foot. A perverse engine-control strategy prevented the other from behaving so.

Similar Prius plug-ins are currently being evaluated at the University of California Berkeley and also at our nearby UC Irvine. Goals include assessment of optimal performance strategies and test procedures for plug-ins.

Chevrolet Equinox Fuel-Cell's Project Driveway
GM's Byron McCormack and colleagues offered an excellent symposium detailing the company's fuel-cell program. This includes its Project Driveway, in which 100 Chevrolet Equinox fuel-cell cars are finding their way into private hands for short-term loans over the next year. Several families have already been given keys, their commitment involving frequent feedback via electronic and other means. It's my hope that our R&T family gets involved before long as well.

Whence the Hydrogen?
GM specialists offer upbeat views on hydrogen availability. A modest 2-percent boost in our natural gas production could support 10 million fuel-cell vehicles. The vehicles are twice as efficient as their gasoline siblings and produce no emissions whatsoever in operation. Even with the hydrogen derived from natural gas, on an overall well-to-wheel basis there's a 50-percent reduction in CO2.

Cost in the near-term, i.e., with today's technology, would be in the range of $2–$3/gasoline-gallon equivalent. The U.S. Department of Energy has a long-term target of $1.00–$1.50/gasoline-gallon equivalent through other potential sources of the hydrogen.

How to kick-start it? GM and Shell propose a bicoastal debut centered around New York City and Los Angeles. The latter has an interesting scenario, with 30 refueling sites within the Los Angeles commuting area and an additional 10 reaching to popular weekend destinations of Santa Barbara, San Diego, Las Vegas, Big Bear and Palm Springs.

Cost for such a 40-station start-up network is said to be around $200 million (on the order of what fuel companies spend in annually refurbishing their existing infrastructure). The target time frame is 2010–2012.

Honda FCX Clarity Into Leasing This Summer
First seen as the FCX Concept at the 2005 Tokyo Motor Show, the FCX has swapped its concept status for the name "Clarity." What's more, the Clarity will be available this summer in a 3-year lease deal, $600/month, including maintenance and collision insurance. Only a limited—and selected—clientele need apply. For one thing, you've got to live near a hydrogen filling station. (Hint to Honda: We're only seven miles from one.)

yeller
02-28-2008, 11:19 PM
I don't know about hydrogen cells. I often work at a research center here where Ballard was working on the fuel cells. Apparently they dropped out of the market (for vehicles) because they don't see it ever happening.

gcarter
02-29-2008, 08:42 AM
Yeller, I'm hopeful. Probably the main problem would be fuel distribution.....if you notice in the article, 40 stations would cost $200 million. But if you think about it, maybe the compressed gas and cryogenic gas folks could get involved too.

gcarter
02-29-2008, 08:45 AM
Can you imagine such an arrangement in a Donzi?????
Maybe four 75 HP motors geared together to the outdrive. A fuel cell stack on either side of it, and the hydrogen tank in the normal belly position...........
What do ya'll think????

yeller
02-29-2008, 10:25 AM
Cost in the near-term, i.e., with today's technology, would be in the range of $2–$3/gasoline-gallon equivalent. The U.S. Department of Energy has a long-term target of $1.00–$1.50/gasoline-gallon equivalent through other potential sources of the hydrogen.The "other" source is coal. Hardly clean emissions. I really don't think hydrogen will ever go anywhere. At least with todays technology. Even though hydrogen produces no emissions, producing it does. Natural gas, currently, is the cleanest way of producing it, but coal is also used. Hydrogen relys too heavily on fossil fuels to be a viable alternative. I believe it to be a pipe dream fueled by the auto industry to keep the enviromentalists at bay.
And as far as natural gas being clean, think about this. Natural gas vehicles always fail the emission tests here. There used to be a big push on propane and natural gas vehicles here, but both would fail the emission testing. The dual fuel vehicles had to switch to petrol in order to pass. I don't know what part of the testing they failed. Now you never here of the automakers experimenting with propane/natural gas. Hydrogen is simply another version of this.

All just my opinion. Which usually means :toiletpap.
I'm still hopeful someone will figure out cold-fusion. :)