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Madcow
02-27-2008, 10:22 AM
I'm considering buying a Blackhawk to try on my 18. Anyone done this mod?

yeller
02-27-2008, 10:27 AM
If your willing to raise your X dimension it works great. Someone here did just that and was getting mid to high 70's with a stock 350.

gcarter
02-27-2008, 10:27 AM
Yep...Don Tamm did w/a 7 liter Chevy. Ran in low 80's.

yeller
02-27-2008, 10:30 AM
Yea, I forgot Don did. His X was stock, so not as fast as he could have been. He had his reasons why he didn't want to raise it. Can't remember what they were though.

Lenny
02-28-2008, 01:30 AM
A few have. At a three inch raised "X" the boat flys. 78 GPS with a stock 350 MAG.

The guy to talk to here, (that made it work well) is Steve Marr.

He has GREAT success with his "X" dimension and this drive. Keep in mind the BH is up 7" from stock, then he added about three more :eek:

Contact him.

osur866
02-28-2008, 02:04 AM
Ted also did this in his x-18 behind a 377 scorpion, if I'm not mistaken it to was in the stock X. Steve

MOP
02-28-2008, 08:06 AM
The X needs to be a 17-1/2¨, Props are expensive. I ran one on my 22 my stock X is 17 being a Tempest setup, I did not make enough HP for a good top end but I loved the performance up until about 55 handling was supreme. The drive makes the boat feel like a sports car, the drive now hangs in my garage while I ponder! I would like to do a 16 with a 300MPI that would be a rocket. Don´s boat would have gone into the mid 90´s with the right X, Steve comes very close to 80 with a stock 300, I have watched him run several times the combo works super!

Phil

Mr X
02-28-2008, 08:13 AM
Hmmm.....

I cut My 18 X-dim @ 16" (1 1/2" up from stock)
It ran 81 on GPS with the Blackhawk and a 377 blue Scorpion.

The Hedgehog
02-28-2008, 10:29 AM
Hmmm.....
I cut My 18 X-dim @ 16" (1 1/2" up from stock)
It ran 81 on GPS with the Blackhawk and a 377 blue Scorpion.

Hey X,

Didn't you stick a 600SC in a 22 one time? I could have sworn I saw some footage of that boat.

Mr X
02-28-2008, 02:48 PM
Hey X,
Didn't you stick a 600SC in a 22 one time? I could have sworn I saw some footage of that boat.

Yes sir.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=14788&d=1126834659

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=14785&d=1126834157

The Hedgehog
02-28-2008, 02:58 PM
Yes sir.
http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=14788&d=1126834659
http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=14785&d=1126834157

That is what I am talking about! Very nice creation. Probably should not fall into the hands of a novice!

cutwater
02-28-2008, 03:28 PM
"Hey X - aren't you going to break the sound barrier in an Ilmor-powered classic? "

"Yes sir."

boxy
02-28-2008, 04:19 PM
Hmmm.....
I cut My 18 X-dim @ 16" (1 1/2" up from stock)
It ran 81 on GPS with the Blackhawk and a 377 blue Scorpion.

As Ted said, the X dimension is the key...

Steve Marr's X-18 will run high 70's all day with a bone stock 350 MPI.
It is a rock solid ride, but the X dimesion has to be right.

Ask RoadTrip about the day he chased the "marlin" .... :D That was the day I lost my favorite 75mph Donzi.net hat....

roadtrip se
02-28-2008, 04:26 PM
As Ted said, the X dimension is the key...
Steve Marr's X-18 will run high 70's all day with a bone stock 350 MPI.
It is a rock solid ride, but the X dimesion has to be right.
Ask RoadTrip about the day he chased the "marlin" .... :D That was the day I lost my favorite 75mph Donzi.net hat....
That was fun!

And watching the automatic, Mustang Suzie-driven, rev-limiter was fun too.

Tom Davis had a lot to do with helping Stevie set that boat up. A little Gentlmen Jack and I bet we could get him to spill the beans here....

Lenny
02-28-2008, 09:36 PM
As Ted said, and others have chimed in, the "X" dimension is the KEY !!! with the BH drive on the 18 hull. Steve's boat was perfect, at his "X" dim.

What has to be watched out for is the LACK of Bow Rise with a surface piercing drive. Arnesons included. In the RIGHT spot, the boat is FANTASTIC, and awe inspiring, in the WRONG spot it is just a scary bow steering machine...hence why DONZI added "rocker" to their attempt, but that didn't work either. That was intermittent "bow rise" to the MOON :)

Contact Steve, I am sure he will let you in on where he is at, EXACTLY.

:D

glassdave
02-29-2008, 09:40 AM
Hi all, great info on the BH drive. I am putting one an a 20 Cig at the moment and also an ITS transom assembly. Does anyone have any insight on what X dim i should run? Having the ITS gives me about 8 or 10 inches more setback that a standard transom assembly so it will need to compensate for that.

Sam
02-29-2008, 12:49 PM
You may want to explore using an Alpha SS. If you look you can still find them and they aren't near as hard to install as the BH. I've been running mine now for four years with no issues. Doug Luvins is running one on his 18 and runs in the high 70's all the time, I have personally seen him hit 82 :yes:. Just a thought !

Good Luck
Sam

Lenny
02-29-2008, 04:16 PM
You may want to explore using an Alpha SS. If you look you can still find them and they aren't near as hard to install as the BH. I've been running mine now for four years with no issues. Doug Luvins is running one on his 18 and runs in the high 70's all the time, I have personally seen him hit 82 :yes:.

I haven't blown my SS up yet either. Nor did Jim. One question tho, it that the CIg is WAAAYYYYYY heavier than the 18. That might create a problem.

The Hedgehog
02-29-2008, 04:28 PM
I would think that he would be looking for a true surface drive or otherwise do a Bravo and Shorty. I am not sure how an Alpha would mate up to the ITS setup anyway.

I think that there was actually a Cig Blackhawk but I am not positive.

I think that the original X dim on the Cig 20's was pretty low so he probably has a few things to ponder. I read a test where they used a X-factor on one with big gains. Maybe Mr. X knows something about that.

Maybe GlassDave should use the Blackhawk 22 X dimension as a starting point and adjust from there for the setback?

glassdave
02-29-2008, 04:37 PM
. . . the CIg is WAAAYYYYYY heavier than the 18. That might create a problem. . . .


good thing i'm put'in WAAAYYYYYY more power in it than :cool::D


I have some access to a few Cig's that have this set up already so i should be able to hit it pretty close from the start. I have a fresh un cut transom to work with, boat is getting a complete overhaul. The BH drive has made a bit of a come back lately especially with the 20 Cig group. There is one out in NJ that has hit 102mph with this same package. As said above its all in the set-up and i believe that the dual prop drives are just un beatable in smaller boats. I also race a 24 Reindl Batboat and have run them with the Bravo and Volvo DPX drives. A single prop in a boat that narrow is down right nuts, to bad they discontinued that drive as well.

The Hedgehog
02-29-2008, 04:43 PM
I would love to see some pics of your project Dave!

I really like those Cig 20's:beer: I could see myself doing one of those one day.

What kind of power are you doing?

glassdave
02-29-2008, 04:54 PM
Whipple charged Merc 500 EFI. It is a build i am doing for a customer, kind of a LipShip type project. We are not cutting any corners. Blueprinted running surface, custom deck/fairing/hatch, all new stringers/superstructure, you name it . . . its gett'in it :D I will try and get some pics up. Right now its still upside down and i am finishing the new gel running surface. should be flipping it back over mid next week when Madcows boat comes back in upside down :D

gero1
02-29-2008, 10:01 PM
at aoth last year running a box and a black hawk drive...best looking boat i have ever seen...got my a handed to me by him and mr.fly in a holler leaveing lee's ford...i think it was mr.lipship himself. from the view of the transom i got,i think that combo works great

glassdave
02-29-2008, 11:27 PM
at aoth last year running a box and a black hawk drive...best looking boat i have ever seen...got my a handed to me by him and mr.fly in a holler leaveing lee's ford...i think it was mr.lipship himself. from the view of the transom i got,i think that combo works great


could have been. Phils brother has one that we are using as a benchmark, LipShip 20 with something like a 600 and a BH no ITS though. I really think it will clean up the transom and help the boat at speed. Ultimate speed realy isnt my goal hear but we do want a big number out of the box. It is going to be a safe, fast, reliable ride in the end.
.

Madcow
03-01-2008, 03:47 PM
Based on asll this, and due to the fact that I aready own it, I think I'm going to stay with the Imco bravo shorty. Seems like the safe and easy play. Plus I'm getting tired of hearing everybody around here refer to my boat as the "million dollar Donzi"

MOP
03-02-2008, 05:30 PM
Based on asll this, and due to the fact that I aready own it, I think I'm going to stay with the Imco bravo shorty. Seems like the safe and easy play. Plus I'm getting tired of hearing everybody around here refer to my boat as the "million dollar Donzi"

One thing the BH at 17-1/2" will be close to 10 miles an hour faster. Mr X was was quite a bit short of the right X and even though he ran quite bit more HP was just a couple of MPH faster then Steve Mars stock 300HP at the correct X!! No way can an Imco compete on top end.

Mr X
03-02-2008, 09:10 PM
One thing the BH at 17-1/2" will be close to 10 miles an hour faster. Mr X was was quite a bit short of the right X and even though he ran quite bit more HP was just a couple of MPH faster then Steve Mars stock 300HP at the correct X!! No way can an Imco compete on top end.
Phil, have you ever PERSONALLY measured Stevie Marr's boat X-dimension?

BigGrizzly
03-03-2008, 10:38 AM
Ted doesn't screw around on projects. Knowing Ted and the way he did this. His boat was set up exactly correctly to Merc spec as was Steve's. As for which is faster- sorry to offend anyone, but the Imco is faster. We did the swap on a 24 python. same day thing. The boat was set up to the BH spec than the Imco was set up correctly, with spacers etc. and removed. Several weeks later the test was done. The BH went up for sale shortly after and went to North Carolina. One other detail Prop availability --not much to choose from!

MOP
03-03-2008, 08:42 PM
Phil, have you ever PERSONALLY measured Stevie Marr's boat X-dimension?

Matter of fact you bet your sweet bippy! The very first chance I got at 1K. I also got the info straight from the owner of Hustler, said 3" over stock which is 14-1/2". Several other 22 owners have a 17"X, that puts the BH gear case the tiniest bit below the bottom. In speaking with a Merc tech before I put the BH on mine he said it was essential to get the gear case out of the water flow as it created quite a bit of stern lift. I decided to play with it as is, and obviously I did not make enough HP and experienced the stern lift the tech spoke of.

Phil

Mr X
03-03-2008, 08:45 PM
Matter of fact you bet your sweet bippy! The very first chance I got a 1K. I also got the info straight from the owner of Hustler, said 3" over stock which is 14-1/2". Several other 22 owners have a 17"X, that puts the BH gear case the tiniest bit below the bottom. In speaking with a Merc tech before I put the BH on mine he said it was essential to get the gear case out of the water flow as it created quite a bit of stern lift. I decided to play with it as is, and obviously I did not make enough HP and experienced the stern lift the tech spoke of.
Phil

Phil,
what is the X dimension on Stevie Marrs boat?
I dont understand the "very first chance I got a 1K"
Please explain.

glassdave
03-03-2008, 09:00 PM
has anyone anywhere used an ITS transom assembly with a BH or am i the guinea pig here :hyper: :D


and is 17 1/2 inch the desired X for the BH when used with a standard transom assembly.

Lenny
03-03-2008, 10:21 PM
Phil,
what is the X dimension on Stevie Marrs boat?
I dont understand the "very first chance I got a 1K"
Please explain.

:) , it IS 17 1/2" ... hence NO stern lift as some boats had...

MOP
03-03-2008, 11:02 PM
Phil,
what is the X dimension on Stevie Marrs boat?
I dont understand the "very first chance I got a 1K"
Please explain.

I was curious so Steve's boat was on the trailer on a pretty decent surface at the ramp up at 1K. I did a quickie, tape measured down from both pivot pins to the ground in case of any difference, then from the keel to the ground and deducted the difference. Not super accurate but was 17+.

Phil

Mr X
03-04-2008, 04:44 AM
Got ya now. Thanks Phil.

ITTLFLI
03-04-2008, 07:10 AM
has anyone anywhere used an ITS transom assembly with a BH or am i the guinea pig here :hyper: :D


and is 17 1/2 inch the desired X for the BH when used with a standard transom assembly.

I am 99% sure Phil "Lipship" does