Captain Call / Silent Choice Thoughts

[SilverBack]

Ok everyone it is your turn to speak out. What is the best way to go??

1. Captain's Call/ Silent choice
2. Mufflers
3. Switchable Tips
4. Open exhaust let them sing!!!

[BlownCrewCab]

Family Boat, Hmmnnn..........Open Exhaust, Let um sing.
I'm a huge fan of Bad A$$ Motors and Big Metal Pipes. It's what I call "Pipe Music" Nothing compares. After the first time the wife will be used to it, the kids will love it, as will you! and Your Macho meter will be peggin....:cool:

[waxman]

Ahhhh,the roar and the thunder

[RedDog]

I have silent choice and rarely use it. I will use around occupied docks or when pulling up to another boat to chat. The wife has never commented on the noise level

[The Hedgehog]

I am not sure why you are worried about this. You will be needing dry pipes at the rate you are going.:smash:

I got switchable tips I plan to use if the noise cops have followed me to Tennessee. They worked perfectly in Bama.

Other than that I will see after a day of listening to 850 hp. For the most part I like them loud. It also makes me feel important!

[glashole]

love them at start-up for a few seconds then turn them off :)

off (quiet) all other time except at speed

its good to know you can make a big disruption (around a dock) but would rather not out of respect for everyone else

easier to talk over when going slow

[Carl C]

I can't vote since I'm not married:). I can tell you that the neighbors don't like the noise while on the local pond and a friend who lives almost a mile from the lake says he can hear me out there:eek!:. My Q&Q is only good at idle since I put on the CMIs late last year (the inserts block the down pipes):doh:, a problem I'll fix this spring by taking it apart and cutting holes in the inserts:(. Q&Q or an equivalant is really nice to have. On a long cruise that noise will have your head buzzing and when I see a water cop or coastie I can flip the switch and cruise right by nice and quiet just like a Bayliner.:):) Hey, shouldn't the B word be in the cuss filter??:nilly: I just saw the last option so I voted!

[yeller]

Go Q&Q for sure, if you can....plus mufflers. At the very least, throw some mufflers on it. There are far too many excessively loud boats around now and I'd be willing to bet that's the main (unoffical) reason we're seeing so many lakes get speed limits.

I love the sound of my HO with the stock mufflers. Nice deep rumble, but not harsh on the ears. Even with the mufflers, it's still too loud for a lot of people, so I ALWAYS use the switchable when close to shore. In fact, I usually run the Q&Q even when I don't need to. When idling around, it's nice to be able to flip a switch and not have the exhaust noise distract from your conversations.

[CHACHI]

I use my Q&Q more than I thought. It nice to be able to hold a conversation when you want.

At 6:00AM, I can't be the bad guy.

Ken

[Tim Morris]

IAt 6:00AM, I can't be the bad guy.
Ken

At 6:00AM???? I'd be all alone out there.But....I'd be runnin' quiet....

Couldn't take a chance waking up the breakfast staff.

[Tidbart]

Go Q&Q for sure, if you can....plus mufflers.

Ok, I was going to ask this question anyways, because this is the setup I have. New-to-me 22. Doesn't having mufflers with the Q&Q defeat the purpose of the Q&Q???


Bob

[gcarter]

Ok, I was going to ask this question anyways, because this is the setup I have. New-to-me 22. Doesn't having mufflers with the Q&Q defeat the purpose of the Q&Q???
Bob
There's not any way you will confuse one for the other.
What the mufflers do is remove the bark. You know, what is so agrivating after about 15 minutes.
Go for both Bob, you'll be glad you did.

[Carl C]

I don't run mufflers. The water mixing with the exhaust has some muffling effect. When you are on open water the noise won't bother anyone and I'll use the quiet mode most of the time on the small lake so I don't piss people off (even though a lot of folks like the sound of the uncorked 496).:smash:

[mjw930]

I am not sure why you are worried about this. You will be needing dry pipes at the rate you are going.:smash:



I think he's already there....... at a minimum he needs to be dumping the water at the very end of the pipe, right at the transom.

The CMI mufflers are the ticket with a big breathing motor like that. They stay closed at idle and lower RPM use, where reversion is a killer, then open up once the pressure becomes high enough to let the big dog hunt :cool:

[SilverBack]

I am using the IMCO PowerFlow exhaust and it doesn't put the water in the exhaust until after it is riser. The cam Rimi cam up with is not that big at all. He says it idles like a stocker. David is not for any type muffler at all. He thinks that I am weird...He says people that come to him for help want their boat louder not quieter. He says to get over it and let that thing roar! I am thinking my buddy Bill is right again...Switch able tips and hope for the best.

[BlownCrewCab]

I Forget the Magic Number (Cam Shaft Degrees) I Think (IIRC) it's 229* Duration @.050 when reversion starts to be a problem. So whether you Got CC, Q&Q, Yada, Yada, If you got a big cam (which I don't think you do Being Blown) You'll be Dry Pipe'n & Dump Tubin...

[The Hedgehog]

I Forget the Magic Number (Cam Shaft Degrees) I Think (IIRC) it's 229* Duration @.050 when reversion starts to be a problem. So whether you Got CC, Q&Q, Yada, Yada, If you got a big cam (which I don't think you do Being Blown) You'll be Dry Pipe'n & Dump Tubin...

From all I remember it is about LSA. It seems to break down between the cab hp500 and EFI 500. I could probably dig up the numbers pretty quick but I would guess that these guys know what they are doing.

[Last Real Texan]

trust me on this.......after a long cruise running 60-70 the wind noise will drive you just as insane as the tone of the pipes un-muffled.....add the two together and you will be looking for a way to handle it....best to have a choice

Bryan

back amomng the living.....been traveling a lot!

[SilverBack]

Bryan,
Welcome back!!


I have been wondering where you were!!

[Carl C]

Talk about just "letting it roar" might catch you some flak here :wink:. It might also net you a "love letter" at the ramp from an irate lakefront dweller :doh:. This is a bigger problem in some areas than others. It's not much of an issue in Michigan (except on Lake Oakland:eek!:) where the only "controversy" seems to be sandbar parties. Anyway with your package I would go with open tips and for sure the Q&Q for all of the reasons mentioned in this thread, and the cool factor :cool:. A lot of casual boaters have not seen these and are amazed that you can turn your exhaust off and on at will. There will be a very slight performance degradation due to the turbulence induced by the down pipe and butterfly and the water will be dumped a bit further downstream which is a good thing in your case. BTW as I've mentioned before, a tennis headband pulled over the ears does wonders for the air noise/ear damage concern when going over about 70 w/no windshield.:alligator

[CHACHI]

trust me on this.......after a long cruise running 60-70 the wind noise will drive you just as insane as the tone of the pipes un-muffled.....add the two together and you will be looking for a way to handle it....best to have a choice

........the wind noise is deafening, at speed you can't hear the the person next to you, let alone the open exhaust. if you want to hear the exhaust you will need some sort of wind management system.

and Tim, at 6:00AM the pond is flat.

Ken

[BigGrizzly]

I usually use the silent choice. on the Criterion when driving in a marina or idlind in populated areas just so I can talk to the people. Also so I don't get a love letter from people or the police. When open they are also much quieter then the straight pipes I use to have. With my engine we don't go over 3,000 with them closed, it can cause damage to the engine. BTW for those who don't know, my engine is a Procharged 502. I have a switchable muffler on my Corsican which is much louder both open and closed than the Criterion, it needs to be quieter!

[roadtrip se]

In my opinion, if she is giving you hell about the noise that a Donzi makes, she probably didn't want the boat in the first place. And the noise just gives her a reason to bitch. There is most likely a nice bowrider in your future. May I recomend a Cobalt or Formula?

As for the real question at hand, I would not have a boat without switchables of some sort, out of courtesy for others in the marina. Legal or not, nobody wants a loud, obnoxious boat running by at the docks. It gets old fast, so I shut it down as soon as I get near anybody close.

[Mr X]

Are there any noise restrictions at Cumberland?

[roadtrip se]

Are there any noise restrictions at Cumberland?

but I have never seen it enforced.

[The Hedgehog]

What are your basic cam specs? That will determine a good bit. Additionally, big heads are more reversion prone.

If you can keep the silent choice by all means do it. I don't think that your big blown 502 will be happy cruising at anything over 3,500 RPM with it but it will be good to have around the docks.

I would probably keep mine if I could have. I know it will not come close to working on my engine.

Poor Tex has to use his but then he is usually not allowed to cruise over 3,000 rpm:doh:

I will probably have to muffle mine at some point. The folks at my marina are pretty cool but I think that enough will be enough at some point and I don't intend on finding that point.

I will probably stick the Gaffrigs back on this summer.

[Pismo]

Silent choice with straight un-muffled tips. If you have silent choice you do not need mufflers in the tips, total overkill. All or none, off or on, totally quiet or totally loud, max performance, your choice. Best way to go.

[Last Real Texan]

.
Poor Tex has to use his but then he is usually not allowed to cruise over 3,000 rpm:doh:
.
Hay no fair here that is only when the wife and 2 year old are in the boat......all other times it is open and loud.....except on a long cruise......and around the docks ...........and well uh oh .....you win!
and actually it is 4000 revs......
Bryan

[Last Real Texan]

Bryan,
Welcome back!!


I have been wondering where you were!!
Been working on a top secret surface drive experiment on a 15 foot boston whaler that entails a 500 EFI and a roots blower and some other goodies hooked up to a surface drive, oh and forgot to mention the swim platform extension for it out of stainless.

Bryan

[The Hedgehog]

Hay no fair here that is only when the wife and 2 year old are in the boat......all other times it is open and loud.....except on a long cruise......and around the docks ...........and well uh oh .....you win!
and actually it is 4000 revs......
Bryan

You can keep thinking that. I have seen those dagger eyes cut your way! I would not use Carter as an excuse, he told me that he likes it loud when he takes a "boat ride!"

I guess that the good thing is that you seem to have the wife convinced that 65mph is really 45mph! Ha.

Now as far as the Whaler, I thought that you agreed to keep that under the wraps until AOTH.

[Pismo]

Is this the Whaler you are redoing??

[BlownCrewCab]

I Think thats a 13', He's doing a 15', it has more freeboard and can Hide the blower and Stellings dry headers better. The stainless back deck (swim platform extension) will cover the 12" stand off box and arneson, The kicker is the 12" Notched transom with a delta step. I Think the boat has so much go fast technology that it doesn't actually touch the water when tied to the dock. The 25"x40" Styrafoam trim tabs push it down so the prop can get an accasional bite. Very smooth riding set up if you ask me.

[SilverBack]

Ok..the problem..one of the problems anyway..other than the swim platform that my friends will NOT help me with is this.....

If you have ever been around a 900 HP big block it doesn't sound like a 400 HP big block. At some point it starts to not only be loud but it shakes you and everything around. I love it but...I am not an obnoxious guy and I would like to ride around and have a conversation at say 40 mph. David Wade my engine and boat tuner has vetoed the y pipe. NO WAY!! This engine can't handle that even at low revs. He has also said NO WAY to mufflers. I am stuck with switchable tips. I guess that makes it simple. But now I need to know who has the best (quietest)... Switchable tips..

I am going to kick your Boston whalers a$$...bring it on... I know your swim platform will never look as good as mine!! I might never catch up with you and Bill in your ZX's but you had better be looking over your shoulder in that whaler!!

[The Hedgehog]

I Think thats a 13', He's doing a 15', it has more freeboard and can Hide the blower and Stellings dry headers better. The stainless back deck (swim platform extension) will cover the 12" stand off box and arneson, The kicker is the 12" Notched transom with a delta step. I Think the boat has so much go fast technology that it doesn't actually touch the water when tied to the dock. The 25"x40" Styrafoam trim tabs push it down so the prop can get an accasional bite. Very smooth riding set up if you ask me.

Man that 90 on a 13 should haul ass!!! We had one with a 55 and it would chine walk. I am pretty sure that the pulley steering did not help.

Yes, we will be going with the 15. The semi-tri hull with the delta pad is the answer. We are actually going to put steps on the tabs to cut down on drag even more. Once we get it going it will ride on the tabs and prop. It will be sort of like turning a hydraplane backwards. We are dealing with some aerodymanic issues and possible blowover problems. Figure it will be a head turner at poker runs. You need to see the look on the face of someone riding in a MTI whild they get dusted by the ole Whaler.

[The Hedgehog]

Ok..the problem..one of the problems anyway..other than the swim platform that my friends will NOT help me with is this.....

If you have ever been around a 900 HP big block it doesn't sound like a 400 HP big block. At some point it starts to not only be loud but it shakes you and everything around. I love it but...I am not an obnoxious guy and I would like to ride around and have a conversation at say 40 mph. David Wade my engine and boat tuner has vetoed the y pipe. NO WAY!! This engine can't handle that even at low revs. He has also said NO WAY to mufflers. I am stuck with switchable tips. I guess that makes it simple. But now I need to know who has the best (quietest)... Switchable tips..

I am going to kick your Boston whalers a$$...bring it on... I know your swim platform will never look as good as mine!! I might never catch up with you and Bill in your ZX's but you had better be looking over your shoulder in that whaler!!

I bought a new set of Gaffrig switchable tips on Ebay for $400. They were still in the box new with the pump and all. Not the sexist but really work. Picture a couple of pretty polished stainless cappucino machines! When they are open it is straight through and when closed then blow through the bottom. They made the marine police very happy so it worked for me. I don't think you will want to use them past maybe 3,200 - 3,500 rpm. When I needed to be quiet in various coves I would hit the switch and run along at 45mph. They made a 600hp beast sound like a Ski Nautique. Teague makes a nice looking set but they are proud of them.

I would go ahead and do the rest. You can keep an eye out for a deal. Switchables are an easy add later. In the mean time you can tell the Mrs's that your loud pipes are really a manatee warning device.

[SilverBack]

I know to never say never but this boat will NOT be seeing any more Manatees while it is with me!! No salt water!!! I don't know anything about salt water and don't want to mess up. I have found a great looking set on ebay but they are selling 4 tips. Do you or Bryan want to go in halves and make two pair out of them?


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Gaffrig-Exhaust-Mufflers-Mercruiser-CMI-Header_W0QQitemZ160204409249QQcmdZViewItem?hash=it em160204409249&_trksid=p3756.m20.l1116




These look a little rough. Have you ever seen this type? Do you know if they work good?


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&sspagename=ADME%3AB%3ABOCOR%3AUS%3A1&viewitem=&item=230181090367

[Pismo]

It's an old style 15' Whaler with a jack plate and the 90Merc. Does in the low-mid 50s.

[The Hedgehog]

I know to never say never but this boat will NOT be seeing any more Manatees while it is with me!! No salt water!!! I don't know anything about salt water and don't want to mess up. I have found a great looking set on ebay but they are selling 4 tips. Do you or Bryan want to go in halves and make two pair out of them?


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Gaffrig-Exhaust-Mufflers-Mercruiser-CMI-Header_W0QQitemZ160204409249QQcmdZViewItem?hash=it em160204409249&_trksid=p3756.m20.l1116




These look a little rough. Have you ever seen this type? Do you know if they work good?


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&sspagename=ADME%3AB%3ABOCOR%3AUS%3A1&viewitem=&item=230181090367

The first are like mine but I have 4" and it does not have the down pipes.

Oh yeah, I forgot to tell you that they will work with your current Captain's call pump. All you have to do is bolt them on an plumb them.

Are you at sea? If not just give me a call.

[SilverBack]

YES...I am out on the water!! Off the Texas Gulf Coast. Out of Rockport, TX this time. I wish you, Bryan and Michael would get Yahoo messenger. I have the electric Corsa Captain Call now. No dice!! My Ragazza had the vacum pump kind but it is gone!!

[BlownCrewCab]

Can't you hook them to manifold vacuum??? then they'll only open when you get on it hard..and thats when you need them to open anyway, all other times will be muffled..

[SilverBack]

I don't know how that would work with a blower????

[mjw930]

You guys need to recheck your state laws. Switchable exhaust (captains call, quick and quiet, any switchable muffer) are considered cutouts and these are illegal in 31 states.

Here's the Michigan law for those who said Captain's Call was legal there (it isn't)


R 281.1238 Mufflers; cut outs.

The exhaust of all internal combustion engines used on any waters of this state shall be muffled effectively by equipment so constructed and used as to muffle the noise of the exhaust of the engine in a reasonable manner. The use of cut outs, bypasses, or similar devices is prohibited, except for vessels competing in a boat race or regatta sanctioned by the department undersections 151 and 152 of the act. A modern device, underwater exhaust systemor a system discharging cold water through the exhaust of an inboard engine,each of which is capable of muffling the noise of the exhaust of the engine ina reasonable manner, shall be considered as meeting the requirements of this rule.

Finding the specific wording isn't easy since I don't have access to Find Law but here's a few things I did find:

http://www.corsaperf.com/mlaws.htm (old data but it's unlikely states have become more lenient since this was published)

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165649&highlight=captains+call

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167982&highlight=captains+call&page=3

And the attachment below.

If it were me I wouldn't waste my time with captain's call or air activated external mufflers. I would simply install the CMI muffler tips at around $1000 / pair and be done with it. They work up to 1200 HP and I've seen them installed on a pair of 750 HP blower motors with NO loss of RPM at WOT and the boat will pass a 90 db sound test.

http://www.custommarine.com/accessories/Silencers.php

http://www.custommarine.com/images/product/thumb_silencers_soundeliminationmuffler1.jpg http://www.custommarine.com/images/product/thumb_silencers_soundeliminationmuffle2.jpg

[The Hedgehog]

Yes sir. They are illegal in Bama. I actually discussed it with the marine police. The guy at Eufaula said that he did not care as long as it could run quiet and I was not making a nuisance of myself.

[SilverBack]

Why can't anything be simple?? Thanks MJW

[yeller]

Ok, I may be reading this to literally, but switchables on there own aren't really illegal are they? They just aren't legal as replacements for mufflers.....correct?

[SilverBack]

It looks like they are to me....I see that MS, LA, AR and TX are not that tough though. Maybe that is why I have never heard of this.

[mjw930]

It all has to do with the way they choose to interpret the laws on the books. You are really only going to have a problem if you boat in areas where they have heightened enforcement, most likely caused by inconsiderate boaters pissing off the locals. (we who have motorcycles are also dealing with this. The few who insist on running open pipes are essentially ruining it for those of use who want a bit more sound than stock but well within reasonable limits. It all boils down to the effect of your actions on the non-boating / motorcycling population. We are the minority and when we piss off the majority we lose every time.)

What they have done is define the term "cutout" just like it's used on on cars, that being anything that allows you to bypass the muffler (required now on every boat sold in most states).

I stumbled across these on ebay, is you're not in an area that has a lot of enforcement and want the option of quieting down the sounds this is a decent deal.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&sspagename=ADME%3AB%3ASS%3AUS%3A1123&viewitem=&item=200202472736

[Pismo]

They are illegal all over but everyone still uses them. Jaywalking type thing. Don't worry about it.

[BigGrizzly]

I have this type on the Corsican and it requires a air pump and a relay about $300-$400. As for the law. as for everything else the many have to suffer for the stupidity of the few. The law enforcement people just follow the public view that squeaks the loudest. You push the envelope you get stamped. There is a great new muffler by Custom Marine that really works- it is quiet and self opens at the higher rpms. it may be my next Corsican buy.

[mjw930]

There is a great new muffler by Custom Marine that really works- it is quiet and self opens at the higher rpms. it may be my next Corsican buy.

See post #42 in this thread ;)

http://www.donzi.net/forums/showpost.php?p=439666&postcount=42

[SilverBack]

From all I remember it is about LSA. It seems to break down between the cab hp500 and EFI 500. I could probably dig up the numbers pretty quick but I would guess that these guys know what they are doing.

Bill and Michael,
LSA?? I am slow! The guy at the cam company said that it was mainly about where the exhaust valve closes and overlap. I don't have the cam specs and can't get a hold of anyone as you know but I know that it was a split duration cam and I thought that it had at least 30 degrees more exhaust duration than what you guys are talking about.

Bill,
I think you are right about them knowing what they are doing but I can't believe the reaction from everyone about the HP numbers on my engine. I wonder if this cam has anything to do with it. I could have sworn that somebody said something about 256 at .050...I can't remember.

[BlownCrewCab]

I Don't think you'll have much overlap being a boosted application, overlap will be bleeding off usable boost. I'd guess It's a conserative cam.

[The Hedgehog]

I Don't think you'll have much overlap being a boosted application, overlap will be bleeding off usable boost. I'd guess It's a conserative cam.

LSA, Lob Seperation Angle.

You are dang right about too much overlap and blower cams. Lot's of folks tend to overcam blower engines and get too much blow through.

I am just going off common sense and what engine builders and merc have figured out. Blower cams and the like are sort of black majic to me so I have to listen to my engine builder. I really don't see anyone out there that claims to run a stock silent choice over maybe 650hp. Tex has a CMI silent choice and it is probably pushing around 700. His headers have a pretty good rise and the water mixes pretty far downstream. Much farther than a short riser on a SM, EMI or IMCO with the captain's call. Heck, Tex is talking about maybe having to go to full CMI tails soon as he considers some more mods.

[BUIZILLA]

I could have sworn that somebody said something about 256 at .050...I can't remember this is a 502 cent. blower motor right? wow... IMO, less is more, but hey, what do I know... :angel:

[SilverBack]

Nothing to worry about! I had my numbers a little off. It is not nearly that big of a cam. David says no way that I should worry about reversion.

Bill,
I have scrapped the whole Q+Q deal. They ordered some of those taller longer risers too.

We also got the 12" setback IMCO box with the 3" rise ordered today. Did you say that you went with IMCO steering? That is what I ordered today. I thought that I had all of this stuff located that was used but it didn't happen. Everything is going to be brand new. This boat build up is great for your health....it lightens your wallet and makes you so stir crazy and nervous that you can't eat. I love this project.

I can tell you one thing that I thought that I wouldn't say. If this hull can't handle the speed I am not messing around with any more V-hulls. I will have a Skater or Eliminator cat for my next boat. Lucky for me 90% of what I am spending money on can go to a different hull!

[VetteLT193]

switchable exhaust is not illegal unless one of the modes of the switchable is dry exhaust. water is a muffler... Plus, if you are in an area of heightened enforcement, you are probably going to be running in quiet mode anyway so the cops won't bother you.

As far as the initial question is concerned though: there is a big difference between all the different engines and exhaust systems out there...

On my Minx, it never bothers me. Small block with stock exhaust.

On my brother's 22 it occasionally bothers me. Only on long idle runs though with a few people in the boat. He's got a HiPo 454 with CMI's.

[boxy]

switchable exhaust is not illegal unless one of the modes of the switchable is dry exhaust. water is a muffler... Plus, if you are in an area of heightened enforcement, you are probably going to be running in quiet mode anyway so the cops won't bother you.


Maybe in Florida, it's not legal in Ontario unless there are mufflers in the thru pipes.

[Tim Morris]

Maybe in Florida, it's not legal in Ontario unless there are mufflers in the thru pipes.

I didn't know that.

Here's a little nostalgia, an invoice from 1988.

Boat is 1987 and after a summer of complaints from my former
wife and a tad of hearing loss on my part, I added Silent Choice.

[VetteLT193]

Maybe in Florida, it's not legal in Ontario unless there are mufflers in the thru pipes.

What I'm getting at is the "cutout laws" almost always mean you can have a switchable exhaust as long as both systems are 'legal' in your area. I understand in Canada you always need mufflers now (or you have to go underwater exhaust). So, if you want to have a switchable exhaust you run mufflers above water. If you don't run mufflers above water you are never legal

In most states in the US it is perfectly legal to have above water exhaust with no muffler other than the water running through the exhaust... this is what I was referring to.

In FL we can do whatever the heck we want. Dry exhaust is legal here as long as you are within a noise limit.

[mjw930]

Actually none of the laws explicitly specify the need for a muffler, just that whatever exhaust you are running meets the noise measurements. They imply a muffling device but if you can prove what you do falls under the noise requirements you have a pretty strong case in court.

Of course the reality is that without a muffler you can not meet most laws. Stock Mercruiser wet risers still are louder than most current regulations allow.

FYI, Florida has a law requiring exhaust to make less than a certain amount of noise, it's just that through selective enforcement it feels like we can do anything we want.

It's precisely because people run open, dry exhausts that ALL of us will end up being measured and have to meet a 90 dB or less law in the future. As usual, the sins of the few are paid for by the many.

It's exactly the same BS that permeates the motorcycle community. Stubborn idiots are ruining it for all of us.

[BaldEagle]

REALLY. depends where you are. Some lakes have sound police. In a perfect world everyone would notice how cool you are without sound. When you stumble into reality its nice to have the choice. In MI. (a midwest state with more shoreline than jobs) Q&Q is illegal so hide the switch. they test by coming along side and holding a sound meter about 3 meters from your stern at 90 degrees. Local ordinances apply. I have CMI with diverter now but had Q&Q+ which was very functional, for here.

[SilverBack]

Has anyone seen the new Liquid Sound mufflers from CMI? They look like they work great! It would be great to hear from someone that has seen them!

[blackhawk]

Silent choice(or equivelant) IS NOT illegal in Michigan. It is a misinterpretation of the law. The term "cutouts" refers to bypassing the muffled system(water is considered a muffling device) to an open unmuffled system. Not bypassing to a quieter underwater system.

However, the catch is your boat must meet the sound laws with the thru-hulls which is impossible without mufflers, turndowns, etc. In other words, you cant use your silent choice system to pass.

[mattyboy]

my wife has a few requests from a classic,

she rides on the right

the wind whips her hair

there is a grab rail

it has a stripe


AND IT SOUNDS LIKE A DONZI

[onesubdrvr]

We are talking apples and oranges here, but when I built my engine for the Ragazza, I ended up using side exhaust tips (approx 9" oval), as the transom with the swim platform would have been nearly impossible to place tips through (either above the swim platform, or under the water line). It did sound tough, even if I say so myself, but, they REALLY rang, and after an hour, year, it got old,... and it wasn't quiet at idle either. That all being said, with the 18's and 22's, with the exhaust going through the transom, even with straight exhaust, it's MUCH quieter than my Ragazza was, so keep that in mind too. The 25 should be even quieter going through the transom.

Wayne

[BUIZILLA]

my wife has a few requests from a classic,
she rides on the right
the wind whips her hair
there is a grab rail
it has a stripe

that eliminates everything...

except....

an early Hornet... :yes:

[SilverBack]

We are talking apples and oranges here, but when I built my engine for the Ragazza, I ended up using side exhaust tips (approx 9" oval), as the transom with the swim platform would have been nearly impossible to place tips through (either above the swim platform, or under the water line). It did sound tough, even if I say so myself, but, they REALLY rang, and after an hour, year, it got old,... and it wasn't quiet at idle either. That all being said, with the 18's and 22's, with the exhaust going through the transom, even with straight exhaust, it's MUCH quieter than my Ragazza was, so keep that in mind too. The 25 should be even quieter going through the transom.

Wayne



That is one thing that I did that worked perfect the first time. I called up Teague to order the CMI mufflers and they talked me it the Gibson mufflers and Gibson turn downs. The exhaust is right were I want it to be. The M-3 Procharger is the main thing that you hear. I took the silencer ring out of my turbo on my Cummins ...I love to hear that turbo sing and the Procharger will talk to you also.

[The Hedgehog]

Mine on the 26 is not unbearable. At least not from the inside of the boat:shocking:

I try to avoid cranking up at the marina before 10:30 am. I did have to leave a houseboat party at 8:00 am a few weeks ago. I think I pissed a few people off. Most of them could not say anything though since they were up at 2:00 am keeping everyone else up.

[BigGrizzly]

Hedg it is bad behind you take my word o that. As for the Gibson it is OK and sounds better at idle then the CMI. the CMI are really good. If I have to get rid of my silent choice I will go the CMI. Just so you know the profit margin is better on the Gibson.

[SilverBack]

I don't know about the profit margin but I DO know that the gibson muffler with the turn downs are very very quiet. I will post some pictures next week when I get my boat back and maybe I will have some video if I can fugure out how to post it.

[mattyboy]

Silent choice(or equivelant) IS NOT illegal in Michigan. It is a misinterpretation of the law. The term "cutouts" refers to bypassing the muffled system(water is considered a muffling device) to an open unmuffled system. Not bypassing to a quieter underwater system.
However, the catch is your boat must meet the sound laws with the thru-hulls which is impossible without mufflers, turndowns, etc. In other words, you cant use your silent choice system to pass.


some states have played with the wording and the intent of the law the term cutouts in some state laws is followed by a phrase " not allowed to bypass the muffler system" and in talking to a big wig in NY state Law they can consider thru hub as the muffled system and hence the thru hull would bypass that that would make the marina that sell the boats in violation as well as the manufacturer but now they are splitting hairs and the actual state in which production of the boat comes in to play and it is a legal nightmare the boat operater can say well they sold be an illegal boat the marina can say well the mfgr sold me an illegal boat so right now in NY running thru wet pipes out of the transom you have to be at 90db at idle or less of course unless you get pinched on Lake George they have a lower standard then the state . I guess they figure instead of prolonged legal action they just take the fine money

[Donzi Vol]

my wife has a few requests from a classic,

she rides on the right

the wind whips her hair

there is a grab rail

it has a stripe


AND IT SOUNDS LIKE A DONZI

I'm not married, but I sure hope I meet a young lady like her! This may be a new requirement.

Personally, I LOVE the sound of a Donzi with that V8 rumbling through the water. I think silent choice is a really cool option, but I think I would probably only use it about 5% of the time if I had it.

There's only one boat I've ever heard that was a little too loud for me. Dry exhaust on an awesome 408ci (right, Mike?) Chevy dropped into a '66 Barrel Back. It is loud, but sounds sooooooooo sweet!

[mattyboy]

seriously my Wife Marie has taken alot of info thru ozmosis or inhaling fumes she really has been bitten by donzi bug,



when we did my pal's Kenny's cig over we went from 3" old cast iron chris craft log type risers to new Stainless Marine 4 inch center risers the 350 sbc is extremely loud but it is what it is it looks like an old hot rod and if it didn't sound like one it would loose something

[BigGrizzly]

Matty your wife is cool. She is a real asset to you.

[Madcow]

For us the biggest problem is noise police. I had Corsa through prop swichables on my 42 Sonic (BTW I sold it Friday) and it truly offered the best of both worlds. When it was on the boat was virtualy silent, and when opened I had the roar and the performance we all love. For the most part maintanance free since Corsa uses selenoids, not air pumps.

[oledawg]

OK, a couple of comments: 1) my '88 22C has straight exhaust 2) in NC the regs state that all boats must have mufflers 3) I have NEVER seen this enforced with the exception of drag boats with headers/pipes in full view 4) NEVER have had a negative comment about noise level, most folks absolutely love to hear the ole 454 idling, and when coming out of the marina or my boathouse I always keep it down until I am out in the lake channel which puts some distance between me and anyone that might be offended 5) most of the time it is only me or one other person in the boat and I have no problems talking if I want to 6) yep, just like a motorcycle, the wind is a bigger problem to both my eyes and ears, but that can be dealt with.

Hey, guys, the way a Donzi sounds is part of its heritage, not supposed to sound like a hybrid. My boat didn't come with switchable and I don't plan to add it. Have thought of using some of the Hardin long exhaust tips that can use baffles. Just like a Harley, the baffles can come out in just a few minutes if you don't want them, and even with them in you still sound good, just takes the edge off. Still thinking on that one in the event exhaust ever does become an issue.

Best :cool!:

[Bamboo Loui]

Hey, guys, the way a Donzi sounds is part of its heritage, not supposed to sound like a hybrid. My boat didn't come with switchable and I don't plan to add it. Have thought of using some of the Hardin long exhaust tips that can use baffles. Just like a Harley, the baffles can come out in just a few minutes if you don't want them, and even with them in you still sound good, just takes the edge off. Still thinking on that one in the event exhaust ever does become an issue.

Best :cool!:[/quote]

My experiance with my 22c 496HO is the same-- people actually expect and look forward to the boat being on the water-- I think at least half the people livng on my lake are above 50yrs old-- with the majority of those being 60-80yrs old-- I swear-- I think a Donzi on the lake make them feel young.
Mine does not have the "captains call or silent choice"-- I just have some baffles in the pipes-- the boat is loud-- but not obtrusive like a jet boat or such-- sounds sweet:)

[Bamboo Loui]

OH-- and I forgot---- all the older people that walk by our house- say it sounds like a Donzi-- it is something they remember! from the past

[cwhydeesq]

I've used Supertrapps on my old Porsche autocross car, and on an old GpZ and they seem to work great. I've talked with the people from Supertrapp and they make a few slip-ons that allow you to dial-in the right amount of backpressure/noise reduction simply by adding or subtracting these little discs. My wife isn't super-happy with the sound of the exhaust (h/m manifolds/risers thru the hull-isn't that how it is supposed to be?) although the kids are, so I'm going to order a set and will let you know how it ends up. Seems that the tips can be added/removed in a couple of minutes (assuming you don't drop one.....)
Chris

[Dr. David Fleming]

So far I have been able to identify three types of diverters. Sound Choice is the diverter made by CMI for use with their header designs. Quick Quiet is the Corsa product and I believe Captains Call is the Mercury product.

Quick Quiet is the electrically operated diverter that came on my 22ZX with the big Chevy engine. I could use this either under water or through hull and it made no difference in the power. It was quieter in the under water mode. this was a very good stock system and if you forgot to switch it from quiet to loud it made no performance difference. One thing that surprised me was that Mercury recomended removing the bellows from the Transom assembly to the outdrive on the high performance engines and substituting a short rubber exhaust pipe. This effectively killed the through prop exhaust which I thought was a really big performance deal for Mercury.

When I changed to CMI E-top headers, the Silent Choice exhaust diverters were supplied by CMI and are air operated. These diverters are not to be used above 2,500rpm as they are a sort of idle only system. The opening in the diverter that exhausts into the underwater bullhorn is very restricted compared to the Corsa Quick Quiet. This system includes a small air compressor about the size of an old cell phone - very compact.
I haven't made the mistake of trying to run this header system through the diverter at higher rpm. To keep this from happening I am thinking of installing a hidden cutoff switch to keep me, my wife or sons from making this mistake.

Talking to Dave Rank at CMI he informs me that CMI makes some diverters for Corsa and then they add the electrical solonoids. These are often seen on the Mercury Racing 500EFI which have electrical deverters and sometimes air operated transom muffler tips.

Dr. d

[axelkloehn]

...at our place we had a speedlimit in the 3 mls zone down to 6mph (!!!) last year, this year they changed it into noise reduction limit of 85 dB and in zones where you are not allowed to go faster as a pedestrian.

This happened because a few crazy guys were racing their boats with open exhausts close to the beach at night and were drunk like hell. We have a lot of places for retired in these areas, of course it ended up in getting trouble with the officials.

When I don't offend people, keep revs down until I left the marina and wait til I am far enough from shore and then let it go I did not have any problems with the locals. Nobody will hate my classic boat except my wife, but that's another story.... :yes:

[oledawg]

Well, limits on sound have always been much tighter in Europe. I rode my Harley from Milan to Barcelona once upon a time for a HOG event and the Italian police were not into ANY noise coming from motorcycles, which is hard not to do on a Harley! Lots of noise at the event as the police couldn't give everyone a ticket! I think that the db limit for cars, motorcycles, boats, etc. is all the same at 85 db. That is not going to change, but same as here, you need to "use the sound wisely". Never want to get folks upset, maybe a little "shock and awe" sometimes when appropriate, but always want folks to feel good about our Donzi's! :cool!:

[joseph m. hahnl]

I can say is the days of loud exhaust are over. Your are all kidding yourselves if you think any different:crossfing:. One thing I know for sure is the Judge will be laughing all the way to the bank, as he goes to cash your check:bonk:. I just use the Gibson tips and the Dapars water baffles . I've been quietly happy with no Tickets for 5yrs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ip6viyq7psoall

[oledawg]

I have seen some 5" long removable baffles similar to used on motorcycles for use in 4" exhaust tips ( Hardin ) that are VERY reasonable ( $80 per pair ) and are said to reduce DB to close to legal. Anyone tried those? Of course if you have over 500HP you have to try something else per the catalog!

[gcarter]

Apart from silencing, there's performance to be cheaply gained by running the exhaust through both the transom AND the drive simultaneously. The flow of gas through the prop has an extracting action which will lower backpressure, i.e., free horsepower!

[biggiefl]

Good too know George. I did not have them on my last 2 go-fasts and when I was looking for a Donzi it was a must on my list or would be added if I found the right boat without. Some days I like cruising in "SeaRay mode".

[CHACHI]

The flow of gas through the prop has an extracting action which will lower backpressure, i.e., free horsepower!


The exact theory behind the Supertrapp muffler.

Ken

[The Hedgehog]

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The flow holds true up to around 400 hp and then it becomes a bottleneck.

[osur866]

I live on a small private lake and most of the peeps here get way upset if they hear open exhaust, but I also boat a great deal on LOTO, I like the abiltiy to have it closed and be respectiful here at home and then open it up when I go to other lakes where it is more acceptible, mine is a Corsa quick and quite but the tips have been changed and there are no mufflers in them, so its either stealth or full on, I lile to have the versitility to go from either, some guys can't account of their engine build and cam selection, as far as performance goes I think Bill's spot on, when my motor was stock I noticed zero performance gain when going open or closed but now there is a slight differnece between closed and open ;)

[99-28zx]

I have the captains call i like it because i am part owner of a marina and live there. So at 2 in the morning coming in loud is just not an option. Also we have many no wake areas and i like to shut them down to talk. If i was on a lake or something and always running i would just leave them open because with no windshield you cant hear anything anyway:yes:

[BLACKBOX]

Recently had the Corsa Captain's Call system installed, and am very happy with it...

[Carl C]

[ QUOTE] Recently had the Corsa Captain's Call system installed, and am very happy with it... [/QUOTE]

What engine? Mine's only used at idle speeds but I like having it available for idling around yacht clubs or talking to the Coasties.

[Ghost]

A couple things leap to mind since I've been considering a ton of options and just settled on a design for my new exhaust. Love the idea of a switchable system--seems like the best of both worlds. (Irks me that they've outlawed it so many places, what a PITA.) Ultimately opted not to have switchable .

But it was interesting to me that somebody (Livorsi maybe?) is advertising a switchable system that doesn't rely on solenoids like the Corsa ones, and claiming several advantages. I *think* it's gas-pressure-actuated.

Also seems like most of the switchable systems, just due to geometry, limit riser length a lot. I like the peace of mind of longer risers.

But having the ability to switch is very appealing. And you get extra HP from letting it draw through the hub.

[Tug Life]

Captains Call /Silent Choice it the only way to do it. Love to hear it roar but when you need to yell at someone on the dock its awesome to be able to shut the noise off.

[biggiefl]

I live on a canal. I have come home late in the loud Baja and got my house egged once. It is VERY nice to be stealth when you want to be. Heck sometimes I cruise with it on, I call it SeaRay mode. Never looked to see how much it robbed in top end as I don't run WFO with it on. It is a great thing to have but like others say...$$$$ to add.

[ROADTOYS]

I put IMCO adjustable diverters on my new 383's, it is nice when you are idiling around, you can actually hear people talking.

[Pismo]

Carl C has the nicest setup I have seen.

[mattyboy]

I had a unique setup a corsa silent choice modified to work on an old Volvo 250. Only one I have ever seen modified y pipe and all

It was the first thing scrapped The exhaust was put back the way it was designed 44 yrs ago If I need quiet I put slip ins or take a toon out