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The Hedgehog
02-14-2008, 09:53 PM
The custom built engine is a fun experience to see. Lots of work goes into increasing oil passages and knocking off the rough edges. Some port blending as well. It is amazing how much metal is taken out of and engine. I know that others have been involved with this process before, but to me it is a learning experience to see the difference between a crate engine and a custom built engine. I am thinking that the end result will be good.

ITTLFLI
02-15-2008, 07:21 AM
Looks good!

And yes it is a fun process! Good for the mind!:wink: So I tell the wife!:smash:

The Hedgehog
02-15-2008, 07:33 PM
Looks good!
And yes it is a fun process! Good for the mind!:wink: So I tell the wife!:smash:

How is your progress? Aren't you building something big?

LKSD
02-16-2008, 08:46 AM
Are you guys also polishing the lifter valley? Adding a windage tray? Looks like some nice work going on.. :) Jamie

The Hedgehog
02-16-2008, 09:19 AM
Are you guys also polishing the lifter valley? Adding a windage tray? Looks like some nice work going on.. :) Jamie

Yes sir!

Lots of good stuff like that. Will be using a tight tolerance windage tray and custom high volume oil pan with all of the trap door effects that the offshore guys use. This one is being built to live and not work on all of the time.

Thanks

LKSD
02-16-2008, 09:24 AM
Kewl... ;) J

gcarter
02-16-2008, 10:09 AM
Are you guys also polishing the lifter valley? Jamie
Jamie, would you or someone explain why do this????

The Hedgehog
02-16-2008, 01:25 PM
Jamie, would you or someone explain why do this????

Basically what is happening here is to remove the casting flash from the all of the oil passages so oil will flow better. It also helps keep those little pieces of metal from getting in the oil later on. Run your hand over a block when it gets back from being machined. You will find lots of razor sharp edges. The process Eddie is doing is really to grind everything smooth and make channels bigger. If you look at a bunch of the stock block castings, you will probably notice that a many of the oil passages don't line up perfectly. This is not such a big deal on lower hp motors. It tends to create problems on high hp engines that use lots of oil pressure.

SilverBack
02-16-2008, 09:53 PM
Bill,
You are looking good!! When do you plan to be on the dyno?? When are you planning to get your boat on the water? It looks like we are going to be doing the prop and setup thing at the same time. Good luck with everything.

The Hedgehog
02-17-2008, 08:12 AM
:eek!:
Bill,
You are looking good!! When do you plan to be on the dyno?? When are you planning to get your boat on the water? It looks like we are going to be doing the prop and setup thing at the same time. Good luck with everything.

That will probably be about right. Got the IMCO steering in this week and the lower unit is here as well. Waiting on some goodies to come back from the polisher. May go on the dyno later this month. It is a little colder up here so I am not as big of a hurry. My prop setup should not be that hard to figure out since I am not going to bring up the x any more. I am thinking that a stock 32 or 34 will be the way to go. Tex has done a bunch of testing on a very similar hull. So far it appears that a non-labbed prop is the way to go. It provides a great cruise and good top end.

I will have some rigging to do but nothing major. Going to up the fuel lines to 1/2 inch and make sure that no bottlenecks exist (cheap insurance). We will be installing a billet top cap, running the drive cooler off the deep water pickup and probably going with a strainer for more constant water pressure. We are putting in a custom built dash with lots of gauges and splitting the switch panel in two with billet panels.

I talked to another guy with a fast ZX in England. He is running a built up procharged 502 with bigger heads and the works. He has been up to 87 and had a smooth ride. He thinks he has more to go. I should have 75-100 hp on him and am using an IMCO lower. :eek!:

If I could pull off working at your pace, I would have it all done by now.:smash:

gcarter
02-17-2008, 11:03 AM
Basically what is happening here is to remove the casting flash from the all of the oil passages so oil will flow better. It also helps keep those little pieces of metal from getting in the oil later on. Run your hand over a block when it gets back from being machined. You will find lots of razor sharp edges. The process Eddie is doing is really to grind everything smooth and make channels bigger. If you look at a bunch of the stock block castings, you will probably notice that a many of the oil passages don't line up perfectly. This is not such a big deal on lower hp motors. It tends to create problems on high hp engines that use lots of oil pressure.
I guess I'm just confused by terminology.....I understand grinding off casting flash and aligning passages.
But why use the term "POLISH" in an area that only requires flash grinding.....unless I'm more confused than I think I am???

BUIZILLA
02-17-2008, 01:08 PM
those oil pump mount and oil passage mod's are extremely important, I can't stress that enough

LKSD
02-17-2008, 02:20 PM
I guess I'm just confused by terminology.....I understand grinding off casting flash and aligning passages.
But why use the term "POLISH" in an area that only requires flash grinding.....unless I'm more confused than I think I am???

Probably because it is more "polished" than it is a rough casting when doing that to the lifter valley.. True a bit of a misnomer, however some guys do take it a bit smoother than others & I have also seen them smooth epoxied in the valleys to help eliminate porosity & speed up the return oil flow.. :) J

LKSD
02-17-2008, 02:23 PM
Basically what is happening here is to remove the casting flash from the all of the oil passages so oil will flow better. It also helps keep those little pieces of metal from getting in the oil later on. Run your hand over a block when it gets back from being machined. You will find lots of razor sharp edges. The process Eddie is doing is really to grind everything smooth and make channels bigger. If you look at a bunch of the stock block castings, you will probably notice that a many of the oil passages don't line up perfectly. This is not such a big deal on lower hp motors. It tends to create problems on high hp engines that use lots of oil pressure.

Correct..

George, There are also other small attentions to details that good builders & machinists use such as chamfering the tops of the cylinders to help eliminate cracking, shot peening items for addittional strength (depending on what you are working with) among other things.. :) J

gcarter
02-17-2008, 04:38 PM
OK!
Thanks guys. Now I get it.

The Hedgehog
02-17-2008, 05:31 PM
I guess I'm just confused by terminology.....I understand grinding off casting flash and aligning passages.
But why use the term "POLISH" in an area that only requires flash grinding.....unless I'm more confused than I think I am???

I would agree that it is a pretty good question. Eddie did not really said that he would polish them either but I have heard the context that Jamie was using and yes he is doing lot's of smoothing.

I would guess that port and polishing heads could be taken in the similar context? I have heard that if you put a nice mirror like finish on your runners and ports it is a bad thing. Kind of screws up the laminar flow. I know that heads and lifter valleys are apples and oranges but oh well, I will quit rambling.

BERTRAM BOY
02-17-2008, 06:21 PM
What are you using for cylinder heads ?

The Hedgehog
02-17-2008, 06:34 PM
What are you using for cylinder heads ?

Brodix. Big Brodies with all the good stuff.

gcarter
02-17-2008, 07:17 PM
Another question.....mains #'s 4&5......the inner bolt heads are polished. These locations normally would have studs for the windage tray, don't they?

Last Real Texan
02-17-2008, 08:33 PM
Along with opening up intake runners like this....leaving a slight texture to help atomize the fuel air mixture......


Tex

The Hedgehog
02-18-2008, 08:11 AM
Another question.....mains #'s 4&5......the inner bolt heads are polished. These locations normally would have studs for the windage tray, don't they?

I dunno. I am pretty much going through the learning process here. I will find out asap.

The Hedgehog
02-18-2008, 08:20 AM
Along with opening up intake runners like this....leaving a slight texture to help atomize the fuel air mixture......
Tex

Looks like the work of Killian's Porting. I seem to remember some of their product finding its way into a 16 that is screaming for a blower right now.

That, along with some more boost, those bigger injectors, 2 bar map sensor and some tuning should put your ZX on up there in speed.

BERTRAM BOY
02-18-2008, 09:33 AM
Brodix. Big Brodies with all the good stuff.


Are you running the Big Brodies with the 340cc intake volume?

MOP
02-18-2008, 09:54 AM
A whole bunch of years back I spent weeks porting and polishing a set of camel backs, I followed the instructions in an article in Hot Rod magazine. On the advice of an acquaintance I took them down to his speed shop to have them flowed, he looked at them and said they were some pretty but sucked for making power. He had me rough up two ports with some nasty grit, he hooked the head up to his machine. He did the two mirror ports first and wrote the figures down then did the two I had roughened, there was close to 15% difference in flow. He went on to explain that when the air flowed in a smooth passage it would bounce off the sides creating a wave, he said that choked the flow and killed power. In a rough port the air would ride on tiny beads of surface air allowing it to move the air at greater volume. It is long known that a smooth surface is not a fast surface, shiny looks great but in reality is drag! I was an avid sail boat racer and for quite a few years sanded my bottom super slick, one spring I though about the roughened surface thing. I tried a rolled on bottom and had a noticeable gain in performance, my 22 even though a trailer queen has the aft section of the bottom sanded. Dennis Connor used the Boeing Rivlets at Americas cup in Freemantle, it gained enough to let us keep the cup.

Phil

The Hedgehog
02-18-2008, 10:01 AM
A whole bunch of years back I spent weeks porting and polishing a set of camel backs, I followed the instructions in an article in Hot Rod magazine. On the advice of an acquaintance I took them down to his speed shop to have them flowed, he looked at them and said they were some pretty but sucked for making power. He had me rough up two ports with some nasty grit, he hooked the head up to his machine. He did the two mirror ports first and wrote the figures down then did the two I had roughened, there was close to 15% difference in flow. He went on to explain that when the air flowed in a smooth passage it would bounce off the sides creating a wave, he said that choked the flow and killed power. In a rough port the air would ride on tiny beads of surface air allowing it to move the air at greater volume. It is long known that a smooth surface is not a fast surface, shiny looks great but in reality is drag! I was an avid sail boat racer and for quite a few years sanded my bottom super slick, one spring I though about the roughened surface thing. I tried a rolled on bottom and had a noticeable gain in performance, my 22 even though a trailer queen has the aft section of the bottom sanded. Dennis Connor used the Boeing Rivlets at Americas cup in Freemantle, it gained enough to let us keep the cup.
Phil

I read an old post you had on that and took notes.

The Hedgehog
02-18-2008, 10:02 AM
Are you running the Big Brodies with the 340cc intake volume?


Yes, BB 2 X's 340 cc

The Hedgehog
02-18-2008, 02:34 PM
Another question.....mains #'s 4&5......the inner bolt heads are polished. These locations normally would have studs for the windage tray, don't they?

The oil pan has a built in windage tray and the original bolts are extended to allow a windage tray. Eddie likes using all the same bolts and torque specs so he cuts original bolts down to fit and smooths out the tops.

The Hedgehog
02-18-2008, 02:39 PM
Got one of these shipped in today. I have always wanted one. It has the big 1.25" shaft. :eek!:

This will make me feel important!

MOP
02-18-2008, 02:46 PM
That sucker is great for harpooning :anchor: and :shark:

Last Real Texan
02-18-2008, 04:24 PM
Got one of these shipped in today. I have always wanted one. It has the big 1.25" shaft. :eek!:
This will make me feel important!
Bill , make sure you dont freek out the first time it get s some tarnishing on the lower that will really highlight the casting holes in the from of that thing that they weld up after finishing the casting process:shocking:....it really shows after a while...a little wd-40 and a scotch brite pad and it will look new......ENJOY ! :convertib:

you have waited a long time to do this project! looks great and am looking forward to a ride this spring!

Bryan

The Hedgehog
02-19-2008, 07:47 PM
Bill , make sure you dont freek out the first time it get s some tarnishing on the lower that will really highlight the casting holes in the from of that thing that they weld up after finishing the casting process:shocking:....it really shows after a while...a little wd-40 and a scotch brite pad and it will look new......ENJOY ! :convertib:
you have waited a long time to do this project! looks great and am looking forward to a ride this spring!
Bryan

Ok, so I dragged you into this whole thing after a weekend in the 27 at Eufaula, you got the 27 with the 500 EFI, I got the blower, you got the blower (and even more power), I am going to a 540, you are getting some big heads and now we will be in the 800+ hp range! I am starting to get scared that you may be sneaking around with plans of 1,000hp and an Arneson.:eek!: Where does it go from here? I am hoping that we are somewhere near the top:smash:? I guess that is all relative though.

SilverBack
02-19-2008, 08:26 PM
Bill,
You are looking good! I am back out in the Gulf of Mexico again. I flew out from Rockport, TX this morning. I got in a hurry Monday and took the programmer to David Wade and I ordered the IMCO SC drive. I will just have to do the box and stuff later. David shoed me a Herring prop that he just got in with one of those long hubs. It is a 6 blade. He says that he is going to test it on my boat next week. I got one of those 1 1/4" shaft setups too. The engine and drive should both be there by Friday. Let hope for the best. :crossfing:

SilverBack
02-19-2008, 08:38 PM
Bill,
Given your avatar...I am very surprised that you were not already running the BIG SHAFT!!!

BlownCrewCab
02-19-2008, 08:47 PM
It may hurt his feeling when you talk about his shaft size. But he's making big changes in his life. Now he's got a smaller lower unit, is going to have more cubes and will be sporting a new, larger shaft, and he can honestly say, I Have got good head(s).....

SilverBack
02-19-2008, 08:53 PM
Bill,
Does your wife know about all of these changes? You might not need to spring all of this on her at one time?????

Last Real Texan
02-19-2008, 08:58 PM
Ok, so I dragged you into this whole thing after a weekend in the 27 at Eufaula, you got the 27 with the 500 EFI, I got the blower, you got the blower (and even more power), I am going to a 540, you are getting some big heads and now we will be in the 800+ hp range! I am starting to get scared that you may be sneaking around with plans of 1,000hp and an Arneson.:eek!: Where does it go from here? I am hoping that we are somewhere near the top:smash:? I guess that is all relative though.
All of that is in the works but....................................it has to wait until next season:nilly::nilly::nilly:I have always in the back of my mind that thought about a huge Hp motor and the surface drive for the ZX, would make for a great project and I really think it would work on the step hull ZX boats.....maybe when I lunch a couple of drives I will wise up and get Rik out in Cali at Arneson to shoot straight with me and give me the 411 on the whole set up....rest assured you will be faster this season and I will be searching for ways to catch up:hangum: ......Ah yes it all started with that weekend down at Eufala and selling the wife on 2 boats....but now only one. I said it once and I will say it again better get some tabs on that rocket ship of yours, you will need them......
Good stuff
Tex

The Hedgehog
02-20-2008, 06:38 AM
Bill,
Given your avatar...I am very surprised that you were not already running the BIG SHAFT!!!

It is just getting bigger! That's all:doh:

The Hedgehog
02-20-2008, 06:43 AM
It may hurt his feeling when you talk about his shaft size. But he's making big changes in his life. Now he's got a smaller lower unit, is going to have more cubes and will be sporting a new, larger shaft, and he can honestly say, I Have got good head(s).....

Just having a blower was nice but there is no replacement for dispacement!

Yes, pubic inches is very important. So is longevity. You have to have one with staying power!!:pimp:

With all that, I wanted make sure that my unit would continue to last. And no, it is not a shorty!:shocking:

BUIZILLA
02-20-2008, 07:09 AM
Just having a blower was nice but there is no replacement for dispacement!
Yes, pubic inches is very important. So is longevity. You have to have one with staying power!!:pimp:
With all that, I wanted make sure that my unit would continue to last. And no, it is not a shorty!:shocking: with all this free advertising, you'd think IMCO would have more female customer base...

The Hedgehog
02-20-2008, 08:58 AM
All of that is in the works but....................................it has to wait until next season:nilly::nilly::nilly:I have always in the back of my mind that thought about a huge Hp motor and the surface drive for the ZX, would make for a great project and I really think it would work on the step hull ZX boats.....maybe when I lunch a couple of drives I will wise up and get Rik out in Cali at Arneson to shoot straight with me and give me the 411 on the whole set up....rest assured you will be faster this season and I will be searching for ways to catch up:hangum: ......Ah yes it all started with that weekend down at Eufala and selling the wife on 2 boats....but now only one. I said it once and I will say it again better get some tabs on that rocket ship of yours, you will need them......
Good stuff
Tex

Ok, so you and Rik were getting close to figuring out the strap an Arneson on the jet boat thing, I really want to see you pull this off to show us all! I think you can do it. I am ok with it even if you are faster than me in the end. Just give me this season. I can already see next winter and you with a tall deck and some boxes from CA. Breaking the century mark, now that would make folks scratch some heads!

Yes, I am looking for a deal on some great big tabs.

BERTRAM BOY
02-20-2008, 09:05 AM
Yes, BB 2 X's 340 cc


At what rpm do you plan on making your peak horsepower?

The Hedgehog
02-20-2008, 09:28 AM
At what rpm do you plan on making your peak horsepower?


Maybe 5,500 - 5,600. Eddie typically does not rev them high. He makes a bunch of engines that peak aroun 5,400. This is centrifugal blown so maybe higher?

SilverBack
02-21-2008, 03:42 AM
The oil pan has a built in windage tray and the original bolts are extended to allow a windage tray. Eddie likes using all the same bolts and torque specs so he cuts original bolts down to fit and smooths out the tops.

Bill,
Are you saying that Eddie uses the stock main bolts? I know you have h-beam rods so I take it that they have aftermarket bolts in them and the Brodies have raised ports so the stock head bolts will not work either...Right? Just wondering ....Rimi goes with ARP studs on everything. Are you running a main girdle? You know we will be at 1,000 HP before we are get to 8 - 10 lbs of boost. It is interesting to see how different guys use different methods. Did you go with gap-less rings? I know you are using severe duty intakes valves and inconel exhaust. Is Eddie doing any lightening or knife edging? Are you running a crank scraper? Didn't you say Eddie was coming up with a custom cam?? I am ready to get this DYNO run over! I hate being offshore when all of the fun stuff takes place!!!!!!! One more thing... Rimi thinks this thing would live at 5,600 to 6k all day??? There is a lot more HP up there that is for sure!

The Hedgehog
02-21-2008, 07:47 AM
Bill,
Are you saying that Eddie uses the stock main bolts? I know you have h-beam rods so I take it that they have aftermarket bolts in them and the Brodies have raised ports so the stock head bolts will not work either...Right? Just wondering ....Rimi goes with ARP studs on everything. Are you running a main girdle? You know we will be at 1,000 HP before we are get to 8 - 10 lbs of boost. It is interesting to see how different guys use different methods. Did you go with gap-less rings? I know you are using severe duty intakes valves and inconel exhaust. Is Eddie doing any lightening or knife edging? Are you running a crank scraper? Didn't you say Eddie was coming up with a custom cam?? I am ready to get this DYNO run over! I hate being offshore when all of the fun stuff takes place!!!!!!! One more thing... Rimi thinks this thing would live at 5,600 to 6k all day??? There is a lot more HP up there that is for sure!

Now you don't think that we would use anything stock do you? The bolts and studs ARP and we will be running gapless rings. I have learned that each engine builder has their own bag of tricks. Yes, I will have a custom cam. At the end I will have a build sheet with most of the engine specs. Eddie's closely guarded secrets are mostly the cam, exact comp ratio and piston to cylinder clearances (important when running without a thermostat). Although they can be figured out, he does not like to publicize them.

We could use a different cam and generate more power at a higher RPM but I think I will have plenty of drive crunching power as it is. That also gets into need for dry exhaust and lower time between overhaul. I have read about how a variation of my combo has been taken to over 1,000 hp! That has already been proven. I want nice power but I want it to live. There is a guy on my lake with a couple of what Eddie calls his 925's in his Hustler. They dyno around 1,000 hp and are just shy of 200 hours with only routine maintenence. You should hear them run. They hit a serious lick. The boat has a couple of Arnesons. It goes from 60-100 like a drag boat. It cruises at 90.

I had a hp figure in mind when I started and that has not really changed. It is funny when talking to a guy that builds serious engines and he talks about what he puts in his "big hp" engines. You think you will be generating some serious power but he is not talking about yours, he is talking about his 1,200 hp motors. :shocking:

Don't get me wrong, the 1,000 hp thought does come to mind from time to time!

SilverBack
03-03-2008, 06:24 PM
Bill,
Where are the updates? Where are the pictures? What is going on with the BAZX?

The Hedgehog
03-04-2008, 07:27 AM
Man you keep changing on me. I scratched the 540 for a tall deck block. I am going for 600 cubes and 1,100 hp. I figured I would need that to keep up with you J/K.

No, all is well. I am up here in Minnesota and it is cold. :eek!:We had a little setback with the injectors. No body has ever done this type of mod with these specific rails. AZM has a solution but I don't have 4 months to get tied up with them. Eddie found some 63 lb injectors that should work. All seems to be back on track so we should be on the dyno soon.

SilverBack
03-05-2008, 07:51 PM
So..what is Eddie saying these days? What are you doing in MN?? It looks like I will only get a couple of weeks of seat time in my boat before AOTH. I hope that there are not too many bugs to work out. I am sure there will be plenty of them though the way everyone says that I am doing too much at one time.

Is Eddie just doing the engine or is he doing all of your other boat work?

The Hedgehog
03-05-2008, 09:49 PM
So..what is Eddie saying these days? What are you doing in MN?? It looks like I will only get a couple of weeks of seat time in my boat before AOTH. I hope that there are not too many bugs to work out. I am sure there will be plenty of them though the way everyone says that I am doing too much at one time.

Is Eddie just doing the engine or is he doing all of your other boat work?

I am doing some. I am getting pretty busy these days and Eddie has rigged more than his share of 100+mph boats so I don't think mine will be a big deal for him. I do some of my own work but am not too proud so let those that know more do it.

One of the reason that I respect LRC's work is that he does it himself and always nails it. I wish I could do that.

The Hedgehog
03-14-2008, 04:10 PM
The new 63lb injectors are in! Since I did not get to steal a Gorilla setup, Eddie has done lot's of work on the intake. I will probably be giving up 25 hp or so since I don't have a bunch of time to wait for AZM to extrude hone it.

I will have a bunch of pics to post by the end of the weekend.

SilverBack
03-14-2008, 05:12 PM
The hedgehog huh?? OK... Is that still Ron on your Avatar? I was going to Baton Rouge today but I did not get to. I am buying a lot on the lake by my mothers and I had to take care of some things to do with that today. How did you get your name changed? Did you get with The Poodle directly?? I need some information!!

The Hedgehog
03-14-2008, 05:43 PM
The hedgehog huh?? OK... Is that still Ron on your Avatar? I was going to Baton Rouge today but I did not get to. I am buying a lot on the lake by my mothers and I had to take care of some things to do with that today. How did you get your name changed? Did you get with The Poodle directly?? I need some information!!

That is Ron. For President

You need to ask the important people on the board. Helping the cause it a good thing to do.

Jamesbon
03-14-2008, 05:59 PM
Maybe I missed this somewhere in the beginning of the post. If you take a good 454 block and add the "540" rotating assembly, I assume you must clearance the area inside the block where the oil pan surface is to clear the larger crank/rods? Are there other areas in the block that need "clearance grinding" for the larger rotating assembly? Like the bottom of the camshaft bore...

SilverBack
03-14-2008, 09:15 PM
I believe that he started with a 502 Gen 6 block. It has a 4.47 bore. You just go from a 4.00 bore to a 4.3 stroke.

The Hedgehog
03-14-2008, 11:40 PM
Maybe I missed this somewhere in the beginning of the post. If you take a good 454 block and add the "540" rotating assembly, I assume you must clearance the area inside the block where the oil pan surface is to clear the larger crank/rods? Are there other areas in the block that need "clearance grinding" for the larger rotating assembly? Like the bottom of the camshaft bore...

Keith is right. Stroking a 454 gets you to 496. It is a 502 block and a little clearance work is done around the skirts. That is one of the shames that those with the 496 have to fact. Not much room to go from there.

Other than that, Eddie did lots of grinding. Mostly in the oil channels etc.

BigGrizzly
03-15-2008, 09:39 AM
You guys are wasting your time. Just come down and buy the 640 Donovan and have done we got one left. Number five went to some street jockey in a Camaro. I am going to disagree with Eddie, a 540 with 900 hp will not live all day at 6,000 constantly but going up there occasionally it will, besides there isn't enough room to run it that long. Make no mistake RPMs kill, especially at the lower engine temperatures that blower guys like to use.

The Hedgehog
03-15-2008, 10:01 AM
You guys are wasting your time. Just come down and buy the 640 Donovan and have done we got one left. Number five went to some street jockey in a Camaro. I am going to disagree with Eddie, a 540 with 900 hp will not live all day at 6,000 constantly but going up there occasionally it will, besides there isn't enough room to run it that long. Make no mistake RPMs kill, especially at the lower engine temperatures that blower guys like to use.

That 640 Donovan sounds like the stuff.

We won't be running 6,000 RPM and I dang sure won't be running wide open that much:shocking: I will go there occasionally but would imagine most of the engine's life will be spent between 3,500 - 4,000.

I agree about going to a tall deck if you want to make big power and stay in it.

SilverBack
03-16-2008, 02:10 PM
Did you get any pictures? Did you get any updates??

SilverBack
03-19-2008, 07:44 PM
Well.....are you going to post your pictures and tell us what is going on Mr. H. Hog????

The Hedgehog
03-19-2008, 08:05 PM
:wink:Ok, ok. The Hog gets busy and is not quite as good at cracking the whip as the big guy for Ms. I am chasing my tail these days trying to get my new business further off the ground.

Here is a little pic of some of my intake work. As I said, I did not have the time to send it to AZM for an extrude hone so Eddie cut out a bunch of the material himself. The runners have also been shortened.

The MEFI 4 is in (not an exciting pic there) and polished goodies are coming in left and right. I hope to post some long block pics tomorrow.

I keep realizing again and again what a deal you got on that Gorilla setup.

The engine will have lot's of bling. Polished intake pleneum, polished blower, polished Dana exhaust with the Vortex 3 risers and I think that I will put a custom decal in place of the Merc 502 Mag :wink: I think that I will call it either a 825 EFI or a 825 Magnum. I am going to paint block and two piece valve covers red and going to coat the heads to keep the natural aluminum look. I think that I am going to take the intercooler off the head and mount it to the firewall then even out some of the bends with polished SS tubing.

I am sort of scratching my head on the custom dash. I am thinking about keeping the GPS map in the center, going with a GPS speedo and tach on the left and right. Splitting the rocker panel into two sets of five switches with billet panels on the left and right of the wheel and a big row of 180 degree sweep gauges across the bottom where the current rocker switches lie. My other gauges will be oil temp, oil press, water temp, water pres, amp, fuel, fuel pres, boost, and pyro. It will look something like a F-16

SilverBack
03-19-2008, 08:31 PM
Sweet!! Thanks for the update. I have been going nuts waiting on things! They painted the bildge and did some custom work in there. The box and steering is all hooked up. The engine got torn down AGAIN. This is the last time. I hope!! You are right about that Gorilla stuff. I got lucky with that. I thought that the guy was blowing smoke when he told me how much he paid for it. I am sure that he was telling the truth now. They are relocating the oil filter and tricking out the bildge a little. My upholstery guy has not sewn a stitch on my stuff in 3 weeks. We had a little talk today and I am hoping that things pick up. Post your pictures when you get a chance.

The Hedgehog
03-26-2008, 03:54 PM
And Keith did not have to prompt me for pics!

I am still wondering what happend to him.

We got the blower, bracket and pleneum back from the polisher. The long block is together. The ECU and injection system are in and I think that the wiring harness is ready.

I am still going with a red block, natural finish heads, red valve covers and the current polished blower, plenuem, bracket and exhaust.

ky-donzi
03-26-2008, 05:23 PM
Polish work looks awesome! I wish I could do a set up like that

This sounds retarded but I believe that I'm going to paint my procharger black.

I boat some on a lake that has a 150hp limit. I've got some custom stickers made that say mercursier 150 already........ And best of all Donzi doesn't state hp on the title so when they asked at the DMV,,,,, Of couse it only has a 150 hp inboard. haha Now I just have to not show my azz on the water and if anyone ask it is a belt driven air drying system.... for engine longitivity

The Hedgehog
03-26-2008, 05:57 PM
Polish work looks awesome! I wish I could do a set up like that

This sounds retarded but I believe that I'm going to paint my procharger black.

I boat some on a lake that has a 150hp limit. I've got some custom stickers made that say mercursier 150 already........ And best of all Donzi doesn't state hp on the title so when they asked at the DMV,,,,, Of couse it only has a 150 hp inboard. haha Now I just have to not show my azz on the water and if anyone ask it is a belt driven air drying system.... for engine longitivity

I have my special belt driven air cleaner too!

I thought about painting mine black one time. I backed off because those merc engines already have so much black.

I like the 150 hp sticker idea. Your 150 hp should break 80mph nicely!

rtgogo
03-26-2008, 07:39 PM
Very NICE work. Bling..Bling...Look forward to seeing the finished product!

CJmike
03-26-2008, 08:53 PM
Man that is looking nice. Should scoot along real nice. Can't wait to see the finished product.

SilverBack
03-26-2008, 10:59 PM
Bill,
That is going to be a very nice setup!! It is SWEET!! Congrats!!

SilverBack
04-01-2008, 11:09 PM
Bill,
What block are you useing? I am just wondering because I didn't hear you say anything about going with an aftermarket block and I figure with those heads and the work that you are doing you will be in the 900 HP range. Big Grizz was saying that there were some issues with the stock Gen 6 block holding over 700 HP or so. I was thinking that you had just notched the stock block to take that stroker crank. What did Eddie say about it?

The Hedgehog
04-02-2008, 09:24 AM
Bill,
What block are you useing? I am just wondering because I didn't hear you say anything about going with an aftermarket block and I figure with those heads and the work that you are doing you will be in the 900 HP range. Big Grizz was saying that there were some issues with the stock Gen 6 block holding over 700 HP or so. I was thinking that you had just notched the stock block to take that stroker crank. What did Eddie say about it?

Eddie did my block work and I am going with a short deck. I will be shy of 900 hp by 50-75 hp. I don't want to make any more power than that. I will be at the upper limits of what my hull and drive can handle (and beyond). It would be no problem to extract more out of it. I could send my pleneum down to Buizilla's friend and pick up at least 25 more hp (probably more). Beyond that, I could drop a few more thousand and break 900 and 1,000 if I wanted to spin it harder/go with a bigger cam too. If it was a priority I would.

Everybody has their own opinion. I am very sure that Grizz knows way more about this stuff than me. I would imagine that if Grizz lived down the road from me, I would probably have that big Donovan of his sitting in my boat right now!:wink: I am sure that my boat will get to make a journey down to Lanier before this summer anyway!

If I wanted to make big power and spin it hard, I would go to a tall deck. For my application, I am going with what Eddie tells me to do. He lives in my neck of the woods, builds big power and has a great reputation. His stuff has been featured in all of the performance magazines and on the cover of a few. On a relative scale, my engine is not big power for what he builds. His opinion of block sizes is not really any different that what Griz says. If I was going to stay in it like some of his customers that push 38 footers, I am sure that I would need a bigger block. For the most part, I will be running around at speeds less than 70 and for that, Eddie says I am fine with my block.

As Grizz says, driving real fast becomes work. I am out to have fun. My boat is very stable to 75 or so, then gets out of shape some till 80, is good to 88 then who knows. For this reason, I will not be cruising in the high 70's and working it too hard. Running low 60's in a nice big lake is good.

I am familar with the 750hp threshhold that Grizz is referring to. I think is is right on about that. Maintenance goes up dramatically from there. It is no problem for someone with decent skills to maintain a 600 hp motor and get lots of time without even going into the heads. When you start slinging 850hp, periodic maintenance goes up. You get to do periodic leak downs, heads come off more etc. I am prepared for all of that. That does not mean that you can't get 2-3 seasons without tearing things down with a well built engine but you do have to monitor things more and when you do go in, the checks you write are larger.

ITTLFLI
04-02-2008, 10:40 AM
Hey HH....we dropped the blown(mild) 502 in my bro's boat last night. He needs to get to detailing the polished stuff but here it is....

The Hedgehog
04-02-2008, 10:51 AM
Hey HH....we dropped the blown(mild) 502 in my bro's boat last night. He needs to get to detailing the polished stuff but here it is....

Yes sir, if it ain't blown, it sucks!

Brodies and all. If it is dialed in right, it will be a crowd pleaser!

BigGrizzly
04-02-2008, 05:03 PM
The real issue is a gen6 502 at over 700hp. now the 540 or 572 is a slightly different story. Just remember RPMs are the problem. This is going to be a very interesting year.

The Hedgehog
04-02-2008, 05:11 PM
The real issue is a gen6 502 at over 700hp. now the 540 or 572 is a slightly different story. Just remember RPMs are the problem. This is going to be a very interesting year.

So if I keep my RPM's down, I will be ok? What would you use as a redline?

BigGrizzly
04-03-2008, 06:35 PM
No sustained 5200 runs. You will find that the engine is a bear at the 4800 rpm range. Best fuel economy will be around 3200. But we can talk in person when its done.

The Hedgehog
04-03-2008, 07:04 PM
I am sure that I will need to talk at prop time.

I doubt that I will be doing any sustained runs at 5,200. That will put me over 85 and it is work driving that fast. 4,800 will put me at 80. The motor should make peak power at 5,400 or so. At that speed there will be a bunch going on. I doubt that I will go there much.

These are figured using 18% slip and a 32" prop. I ought to do better than that. I am talking to a guy right now (in the exact same boat) that has about 75 less hp or so than I will be making, is getting 14% slip and swinging 30" Bravo I. He is topping out at 88 and has more to go.

3,500 RPM will get me over 60 and that is a nice cruise. So you have to figure that the motor will spend most of its life at 3,500 and down. I am hoping that should be ok.

BigGrizzly
04-03-2008, 07:08 PM
That worked for me, just hope you have the durability that I have had.

The Hedgehog
04-19-2008, 01:52 PM
Everything is in and it is coming together now. I should have more pics in the next few days.

It is very red. The polished stuff came out well. The blower and pleneum are very shiney. Eddie moved the ECU, oil cooler and some of the accessoried to a custom bracket on the back on the engine.

I just had to fork out some dough for nice pulleys from Hardin. The stock pulleys were not going to cut it with all the rest of the goodies. The old power steering pulley was the worst!

BUIZILLA
04-19-2008, 03:30 PM
i'm liking that oil pan..

how far is it from the plenum opening to the intake valve face?

The Hedgehog
04-19-2008, 04:38 PM
i'm liking that oil pan..
how far is it from the plenum opening to the intake valve face?

Thanks, it is a serious oil pan with all of the goodies.

I will have to measure the plenum. I am not sure but those runners are pretty long.

If I wanted to make serious power, I would have to either send it to your guy way down south, have it extrude honed by AZM or just scrap it and use one of Eddie's systems. I wanted to save a few bucks and I think that this system all polished up will look cool. I am not going for all out power on this. I should have enough power to easily toast an XR as it is. Eddie did shorten the runners some and took out a bunch of metal. At the end of the day I probably only saved a grand by not scrapping the system.

Articfriends (Smitty) on OSO has gotten over 1,000 hp out of his 540 but he eats drives like it is going out of style.

Eddie was telling me that he was talking to Marc Boos at PMEFI and that Marc had recently done a system with a 600 CI big block, a M-5 Procharger and the FI system that Eddie uses (I think it is a Holley derivation with a MEFI-4). They got 1,200 hp:eek!:

BUIZILLA
04-19-2008, 10:36 PM
forget the Extrude hone, that only makes the hole bigger and the airflow get's wacky :propeller:

put it together and beat the piss out of it :cool:

real curious on runner length though :wink:

The Hedgehog
04-19-2008, 11:16 PM
forget the Extrude hone, that only makes the hole bigger and the airflow get's wacky :propeller:
put it together and beat the piss out of it :cool:
real curious on runner length though :wink:

Will do.

It sounds like you know something interesting though.:cool: I will file that away!

Me thinks you might know about something to get big power from those long runners. That's cool. I always like to try things from another perspective.

BUIZILLA
04-20-2008, 07:19 AM
Will do.
It sounds like you know something interesting though.:cool: I will file that away!
Me thinks you might know about something to get big power from those long runners. That's cool. I always like to try things from another perspective. I pay close attention to runner length and volume in a NA setup, with a blower it doesn't really matter as much, the intake manifold just becomes a scuba tank

BigGrizzly
04-20-2008, 10:24 AM
I agree with Buzz on all counts. That Extrude hone is a gimmick. one of our customers sent a set of heads down to do and after we did it on the dyno he lost horse power. Garry said the heads were all wrong and he couldn't fix them for less then new heads! I did not see the insides of the heads myself, but the process, itself, doesn't know anything about air flow.

CJmike
05-14-2008, 07:59 AM
Any new pics of the motor in the boat?

The Hedgehog
05-14-2008, 08:20 AM
Let me see what I can dig up. It is scheduled to go on the dyno on Monday.

mrfixxall
05-14-2008, 09:19 AM
Everything is in and it is coming together now. I should have more pics in the next few days.
It is very red. The polished stuff came out well. The blower and pleneum are very shiney. Eddie moved the ECU, oil cooler and some of the accessoried to a custom bracket on the back on the engine.
I just had to fork out some dough for nice pulleys from Hardin. The stock pulleys were not going to cut it with all the rest of the goodies. The old power steering pulley was the worst!

Did you o ring the block ?

The Hedgehog
05-22-2008, 06:22 PM
No, I don't think so on the o-ring.

The engine sits quietly on the dyno. A couple of pulls revealed that we need some smaller pulleys and more spark up top. Evidently the stock ingnition is not enough to really fire up when the cylinder pressure gets high
.
The engine made 650 hp at 5,000 with 4 lbs of boost. We need to be getting up around 5,400 rpm and more like 7-8 lbs of boost.

It looks like more parts and pulls are in order. I should at least be able to get some pics up soon.

SilverBack
06-08-2009, 03:09 PM
Hedge...I couldn't find your thread on your blower problem so I decided to ask here....have you heard from ATI?? I hope that you got better news from them than I did from the glass shop!!