Older Clever prop question

[mjw930]

I picked up a set of clevers in very good condition off ebay but when they arrived I was surprised by what appears to be a design that does not use a thrust washer.

Here's a picture of the back of the prop. The end is tapered (and nicked a bit, I need to get that machined) and it looks like it's not intended to be used with a thrust washer OR the thrust washer also has a tapered insert.

The part number is 48-74602A 23P

I assume these are old, possibly from a TRS drive.

Testing today with a borrowed 23" clever she runs 64 mph @ 4850 RPM, full fuel and 2 adults. Cruise speed @ 3000 RPM is 40 mph and she runs all day at 50 mph @ 3900 RPM. That's pretty good for an old classic V-Bottom with a clever prop and a basic 7.4L motor and a lot better than she ran with the 21" clever. I'm sure I'll see different results when I start trying other props but this was encouraging.

[mjw930]

Solid hub, uses a small thrust washer, I'll look up the P/N..

Solid hubs are fine on TRS's with an external tranny BTW.. On Bravo's etc. they can cause you some serious grief if you thwack something..

And it's Cleaver :) :)

Yep, I know all about that and with the small motor a solid hub is really overkill. I got so used to having to run solid hubs with the 500+ HP motors that I didn't even notice it until they arrived.....

Hey, I got a 23L and 23R shipped for $80 and they have been recently refinished and look to be in great shape. Worst case, I'll hang them on the wall in the garage, Clever's always looked sinister :wink:

BTW, I'll be the first to say that I was totally surprised at the performance of the 23" Clever I borrowed. The only down side is it wanted to porpoise at WOT. It was smooth as silk at cruise speed, where others have said it should porpoise, and only wanted to hop at WOT with some trim. If you drop the trim it drops the bow and you immediately scrub off 4 mph. I suppose something with some rake will carry the bow without a lot of trim and negate the porpoising.

Prop testing, I love it :D (actually I really do, is there a 12 step program for propahaulics......)

[mjw930]

Cleavers work well on our hulls no doubt..


Wanted to make sure your aware of the SH issue, you are.

Ready for a 23 QIV yet? I think I know where it is, got to check.. Turbo??

Yep, it looks like I should have a day next weekend to do some prop testing. I don't recall but does the QIV turn pretty much pitch for pitch with the 3 blades or is it like the Bravo 1 prop where you have to drop a size to keep the revs up?

Based on what I'm seeing do you think a Turbo 23" is a good match or do I need to drop to a 22" considering the extra cup and rake?

I'll PM you my contact info and UPS account.

[MOP]

None of the old style cleavers used a thrust washer, if you look you will see the taper machined into the the the prop. Slap it on you will find it fits very well in fact better then most with th thrust washer.

Phil

[mjw930]

None of the old style cleavers used a thrust washer, if you look you will see the taper machined into the the the prop. Slap it on you will find it fits very well in fact better then most with th thrust washer.

Phil

That's what I thought and I figured I'd fit it and see where it positioned itself on the shaft, that will tell me for sure whether it's designed to have a thrust washer.

In the long run I don't think I want to run the solid hub considering where I boat. All it would take is one crab pot at speed to lose a drive shaft.

Back in the racing days we had more than one boat come back on the trailer missing a prop and shaft. At the $1500 / prop we had invested it turned into a very expensive weekend....

[BigGrizzly]

I don't want to be a wet blanket but solid hubs hurt the lower unit drive gears, never mind hitting something. The problem with cleaver is, it is old technology. For me the trade offs far out weight the speed. "if you can't drive you can't race it". I keep trying them on various boats but go back the other way. No I will say Merc had a few old ones that are fast, and really neat, but there are 3 different designs with the same part number(supersessions). The second generation is the one I like. There is a member on the board who has one that I know of. The onlly to find out is try it. They do look great on the wall!!!

[chappy]

I used to swear by my cleaver until Big Grizzly shipped me a turbo. The entire attitude of the boat changed for the better overall. By the way, MJW930, you keep dropping lines about racing APBA and "Back in the racing days" and such, do you have any old photos or insight into the teams you raced with? Many of us followed those races and I know I would be curious.:crossfing:

[mjw930]

I don't want to be a wet blanket but solid hubs hurt the lower unit drive gears, never mind hitting something. The problem with cleaver is, it is old technology. For me the trade offs far out weight the speed. "if you can't drive you can't race it". I keep trying them on various boats but go back the other way. No I will say Merc had a few old ones that are fast, and really neat, but there are 3 different designs with the same part number(supersessions). The second generation is the one I like. There is a member on the board who has one that I know of. The onlly to find out is try it. They do look great on the wall!!!

Not sure what the tradeoffs are but I'm just beginning to test so I'm by no means locked into a Clever.

The solid hub has no effect on the gears. The "rubber" hub (it's actually polycarbonate) in the new TorqueFlo II has no cushioning effect. It's a hard poly, not a rubber insert. It's only reason for being is to act as a shear pin when you hit something.

[mjw930]

I used to swear by my cleaver until Big Grizzly shipped me a turbo. The entire attitude of the boat changed for the better overall. By the way, MJW930, you keep dropping lines about racing APBA and "Back in the racing days" and such, do you have any old photos or insight into the teams you raced with? Many of us followed those races and I know I would be curious.:crossfing:

I wasn't hugely involved but between '97 and '01 I helped out with a couple Factory 1 teams and raced my 26 Velocity in Local a couple times. The teams were DeLand Honda, Anderson Racing and Team Velocity.

[Cuda]

The teams were DeLand Honda, Ve

Where are you located? That's my home town.

As far as cleavers, I ran them on my Minx. I ran them on a 20 ft Formula I had also. I didn't seem to get nearly as much prop torque, that made the boat heel, when I ran a cleaver, vs a round ear prop.

[mjw930]

Where are you located? That's my home town.

As far as cleavers, I ran them on my Minx. I ran them on a 20 ft Formula I had also. I didn't seem to get nearly as much prop torque, that made the boat heel, when I ran a cleaver, vs a round ear prop.

I'm in Ormond Beach now, I used to live in Apopka (Orlando). My connection to all of this is through Bruce Baker at Express Engines (http://www.expressenginesusa.com/index.html). His shop is in DeLand over by the airport.

[BigGrizzly]

Actually after doing tests with Honda Marine I differ with your opinion of the polly hubs n ot much but some. I have actually spun one on my boat. just wait until it cools down and limp home . Merc metal hubs with the little rubbers I would agree with. I use neither.I use a rubber square drive hub called Rubex. It is a great improvement, I have been testing it for over a year with good results. You would be surprised the harmonics that happen with a lower unit.

[Cuda]

I'm in Ormond Beach now, I used to live in Apopka (Orlando). My connection to all of this is through Bruce Baker at Express Engines (http://www.expressenginesusa.com/index.html). His shop is in DeLand over by the airport.
Small world. I'm starting a big job in Ormond on the 18th. I'm having the tile delivered on the 14th. It's on Granada, between US1, and Nova Rd. It's a closed down Friendly's Restaraunt, that they are changing over to an Arby's.

I've been to Bruce's before, as a matter of fact, I called them about doing some headwork on the HP 500, that I was going to put in the 22. I asked them if they minded me supplying my own parts, and they said no problem. They said they could even start on the heads until I got the parts. I rounded off the head on one head bolt, and couldn't get the head off. Turns out, it was a good thing, because last year was a terrible year for me work wise, and economics prevented me from doing the HP. As a matter of fact, I just sold the longblock this morning. Really nice guys that work there, and I've never heard a bad report about any work they have done, and I think they do the lion's share in this area, for high performance boats.

[mjw930]

Actually after doing tests with Honda Marine I differ with your opinion of the polly hubs n ot much but some. I have actually spun one on my boat. just wait until it cools down and limp home . Merc metal hubs with the little rubbers I would agree with. I use neither.I use a rubber square drive hub called Rubex. It is a great improvement, I have been testing it for over a year with good results. You would be surprised the harmonics that happen with a lower unit.

I'll check into that. I agree that there are lots of harmonics and having an isolator that worked AND didn't fry when you nailed the throttle is a good thing. The current Merc hubs use a pretty hard plastic and I doubt there is any harmonic filtering going on but I could be wrong.

BTW, I fitted the RH prop this afternoon and it is indeed one of the older units that does not use a thrust washer. Fit's like a glove, I just made sure to put plenty of grease on it and since I usually don't leave a prop on the boat I shouldn't have any issues getting it off.

[yeller]

I use a rubber square drive hub called Rubex.BigGrizzly, I can't find any info on these except that they're made by Solas and rated to 200hp. Seems a bit low. Is there one rated higher. Also, do you find it is holding out better than Mercs rubber hub?