Hydromotive Quad-IV

[mjw930]

I"m looking for a 22P or 23P RH Quad-IV to try out on my 22 Classic.

If you have one and would be interested in selling it or "loaning" it to me to try (I'll pay all shipping) then give me a shout either through this thread, via PM or email, mwhatman@cfl.rr.com

[MOP]

I have a near new, run maybe 2 hours 2+2 22" that I tried on my 22. Let me know if you have interest.

[mjw930]

I have a near new, run maybe 2 hours 2+2 22" that I tried on my 22. Let me know if you have interest.

I'm assuming you didn't like it because of too much bow lift?

I'm thinking the Hydro because they are not bow lifting props, the 2+2 is.

How did you like it?

[zimm17]

Uh oh, another prop thread....

I have to bang on my drum and tell you to try a Turbo brand "Fusion 4" as well as the hydro. Contact big grizzly here on the board- he's the prop guru.

I compared both on back to back runs- and the fusion was hands down better on my boat- but I'm running an IMCO 2" shorty lower drive. It had a 7mph higher cruise at 3200rpm and the same top end.

[MOP]

Qoute: I'm assuming you didn't like it because of too much bow lift?

That is a surprising statement from a 22 owner and could not be further from the truth!!!

If there is one thing that a 22 needs id BOW LIFT, that is one of the thing all of these deep V hulls need to get loose! The reason is in my lending it out is for my app a 23 works better, a 24 may even be better but have not tried one yet. With -0- trim My SB runs 60+ with a gob of trim it runs 65.5, does that indicate the need for bow lift on a 22 hull? You want the most out of your boat you need to get a bow lifting prop.

zimm17 you boat is an entirely different animal with the power it makes, you get good lift from brute power.

Phil

[MOP]

I poked back through and read your old post on the engine combo and speed.
Qoute: With this setup on the sea trial the boat ran 59 on GPS @ 5000 RPM without me spending a lot of time playing with trim, in fact it was trimmed pretty conservative. "Cruising" at ~4000 RPM we were running a solid 44MPH on GPS. Obviously it's a bit under propped as I"m sure I was on the rev limiter @ WOT.

First dump the cleaver, not many will argue a cleaver on a 22 just don't do well speed wise. They produce some odd handling quirks and a really weird twitch when trimming at speed as GC and I both found out and scared the DOO out of passengers. They also make a lot of stern lift you need bow lift. I have tried two diffrent cleavers, a switch to the same 23" pitch in a 4 blade gave me over 3MPH and much improved handling. I do not believe your rig has a rev limiter, I know my 86 does not. You are running a 454 330 HP, they had peanut port heads/mild compression and run out of steam a bit below 5000. To many think spinning up higer RPM's will make an engine produce its best power/speed, that is not so. I have gained more speed with each increase of pitch, I have dropped my RPM down about 500 in doing so. An engine should be proped where it makes its best power, that takes time and testing as no two rigs will run the same even with the same engine/drive configuration. You best bet it to make it to one of the runs, let people know you will be coming and want to try some props. That has worked for a lot of the guys and has saved them tons of time and money, Proped right you should run 63 to 65 and have nice handling. Mount that cleaver on the wall they make good oriniments!

[mjw930]

MOP,

I understand what you're saying but there seems to be some contradictory statements when you read all of the prop threads (which I did). The one that stands out the most are the people who complained that the 4 blade Bravo 1 prop made the boat unstable and/or caused a lot of porpoising, the natural result of running to much rake for a particular application.

Bow lift is indeed something you typically want but it has the be part of an overall hull design that provides enough stern lift to allow the boat to fly generally level. Just jacking up the bow isn't always the best way to go. Pad bottom boats and most air entrapment designs provide substantial stern lift though the hull and really benefit from high rake 4 and 5 blade designs. Their high X-dimensions also benefit from having at least 2 blades biting at any point in time where with a 3 blade design they often only have 1 blade fully in the clean water. On a low X, traditional hull the number of blades is typically less important.

Traditional deep V's need some degree of bow lift but that needs to be moderated based on how much overall lift is designed into the hull. With your SB package you are running higher in the rear than a comparable BB due to the lighter engine package. If it's a SB / Alpha combo then you're even lighter still. In your situation you would want more bow lift to compensate. That might explain why you like the 4 blade while others think it's unsafe.

The Hydro Q4 is a hybrid, to some degree. It doesn't provide much bow lift but it does provide more than a traditional clever, that's why I would like to try one. Also, the term Stern Lifting is a misnomer, what that really means is the prop provide little to no bow lift.

BTW, I've done the prop testing bit a few times, I used to race APBA Offshore and spent many days down at Lake-X and other locations testing props. The major difference now is most of my friends who have props I could try are too big for this application. I have 20+ prop's I can choose from in the 26 - 32 pitch range, that doesn't help me with this package.

I eventually want to try the following props so I can make my own determination of what works best in MY application:

21" and 23" 3 blade clevers (already have those)
21" - 23" Hydromotive Q4
21" - 23" Bravo 1
21" - 23" Turbo 1
21" - 23" Mirage and Mirage Plus
21" - 23" Revolution 4
21" - 23" Turbo 2+2 (your prop)

One other thing, I'm also looking into running LH as well as RH props. On our race boats it was worth 1 to 2 MPH on the top end but you have to relearn everything about the way the boat handles...... I doubt it's going to buy me anything on this package but you never know until you try.

Back to your prop, I'd love to try it. PM me with how you want to handle the transaction.

[mjw930]

I can dig out my 23 Hydro, and I'm pretty sure I have a Turbo demo prop in stock. Could leave them at my WPB office later this week if you want to pick them up, otherwise I have a friend in a big brown truck that stops by daily :)

Scott,

I really appreciate it. I need to look at my schedule for the next couple week to see when I might be able to do some prop testing. I'll let you know since I don't want to have your stuff here if I'm not going to be able to test it.

Mark

[zimm17]

zimm17 you boat is an entirely different animal with the power it makes, you get good lift from brute power.

Actually, I did my prop testing with 23/24p props with stock 454 mag power.

Only after I put the blower on, did I go with the 29p fusion.

[VetteLT193]

....
First dump the cleaver, not many will argue a cleaver on a 22 just don't do well speed wise. They produce some odd handling quirks and a really weird twitch when trimming at speed as GC and I both found out and scared the DOO out of passengers. They also make a lot of stern lift you need bow lift. I have tried two diffrent cleavers, a switch to the same 23" pitch in a 4 blade gave me over 3MPH and much improved handling. ....

Big difference between a big block 22 and a small block 22 or a small block Minx.

The 454/bravo has to be a couple hundred pounds heavier than it's small block brother. All that extra weight in the very back of the boat means you need some stern lift to get the boat level.

There are also others who will say the cleaver is the best prop to run on the BB 22.

[MOP]

Your analogy would be correct on a stock SB 22, not on mine my CG is well aft of stock. On the advice of Geo my fuel tank and anything else I could was moved as far aft as practical including dual batteries, moving the CG lightened the nose and completely did away with the A typical 22 porpoising and requires a bit less trim.

[VetteLT193]

Your analogy would be correct on a stock SB 22, not on mine my CG is well aft of stock. On the advice of Geo my fuel tank and anything else I could was moved as far aft as practical including dual batteries, moving the CG lightened the nose and completely did away with the A typical 22 porpoising and requires a bit less trim.

I wonder what it is about the hull that does this. usually you have to move the CG forward to kill porpoising.

[MOP]

I wonder what it is about the hull that does this. usually you have to move the CG forward to kill porpoising.

It is a bit odd, when I fill the forward tank the boat porpoises go figure!

[mjw930]

Actually it makes sense when you consider the deep x-dimension. When you have more weight forward the prop is lifting the bow up to the point where it can no longer lift and the bow drops. When you move the weight to the rear you use less trim and less energy is spent carrying the bow so it never goes above the ability of the prop to carry it.

When you move things back you can raise the X to get less drag since you no longer need as much leverage. At the ultimate, and I can't believe no one has tried this, you can run an extension box and raise the X as much as another 6". Of course now you are getting into big power and 5 blade props to get maximum speed. You also sacrifice midrange performance IMHO but those who go this far rarely spend much time off WOT :D

[chappy]

At the ultimate, and I can't believe no one has tried this, you can run an extension box and raise the X as much as another 6".
Like this?
http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33922&d=1201956017
I think this boat swapped the stern jack and alpha ss for an ASD.

[mjw930]

Like this?
http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33922&d=1201956017
I think this boat swapped the stern jack and alpha ss for an ASD.

Well, that's not exactly what I was talking about. The theory behind the stand off box or extension box is to provide more leverage so you can use less trim and expend more energy pushing the boat forward. It's a viable theory BUT the best combination is moving it back AND up. That provides more leverage and puts less of the drive in the water thus reducing drag. Remember, water moves up pretty fast after it exits the transom, you can go pretty high and still get a good bite. That's the theory behind all the notched transom boats like Fountain, Velocity, Allison, etc.

A stelling or Imco 12" box with a 3" rise would probably work well on this hull. I recall Mastry was working on an adjustable extension box about 8 years ago. Something like a jack plate for a sterndrive, when they were demoing the Yanmar diesel in a Donzi (I think it was an 18 but it might have been a 22). I was told they were getting almost 5 mph more when they raised the outdrive with identical power and CG.

[VetteLT193]

Well, that's not exactly what I was talking about. The theory behind the stand off box or extension box is to provide more leverage so you can use less trim and expend more energy pushing the boat forward. It's a viable theory BUT the best combination is moving it back AND up. That provides more leverage and puts less of the drive in the water thus reducing drag. Remember, water moves up pretty fast after it exits the transom, you can go pretty high and still get a good bite. That's the theory behind all the notched transom boats like Fountain, Velocity, Allison, etc.

A stelling or Imco 12" box with a 3" rise would probably work well on this hull. I recall Mastry was working on an adjustable extension box about 8 years ago. Something like a jack plate for a sterndrive, when they were demoing the Yanmar diesel in a Donzi (I think it was an 18 but it might have been a 22). I was told they were getting almost 5 mph more when they raised the outdrive with identical power and CG.

I spoke with Richard Mastry about the jack plate project, (I went to college with his daughter). Funded by the government, but it never went anywhere for some reason.

The boat was a 22, not sure where it wound up.

[mjw930]

I can dig out my 23 Hydro, and I'm pretty sure I have a Turbo demo prop in stock. Could leave them at my WPB office later this week if you want to pick them up, otherwise I have a friend in a big brown truck that stops by daily :)

Scott,

I got the Turbo demo prop today, thanks. It may be a week or 2 before I can try it out but I'll try not to keep it too long.

BTW, your PM inbox is full ;)

Mark