New Ford F-150 Diesel

[Donziweasel]

Did some research on the new Ford F-150 diesel powerplant. Pretty interesting engine. It is the same engine as the 3.8 L Land Rover (which Ford ownes) Diesel in Europe that has been around for a few years. Being American's, Ford has decided we need more power than the powerplant currently produces. The US version will be 4.4L and 330 Hp with 520 ft pounds of torque. Not bad, not bad at all! The biggest engine currently produced in the F-150 is the 5.4 330 CI modular V-8 producing 300 hp and 365 hp. The engine will be produced in England and shipped here. Initial reports are a run of 100,000 F-150's produced with this engine in 2009. Chevy and Dodge also have small turbo diesels in the works, but they will not be out until 2010 or 2011.

I am hoping this engine will make it into the Expedition as my wife would love to have one. Since this is an exsisting engine that has been tested and produced for Land Rover, it should be reliable. I guess only time will tell, but you can't deny that 520 ft pounds of torque in a F-150 will be pretty impressive.

[gold-n-rod]

Let's hope that Ford has a better relationship with its British supplier of diesels than it has with its current supplier (Navistar). :hangum:

[Donziweasel]

Agreed Randy!

[BUIZILLA]

Trucks
Manifold destiny

GM’s new 4.5-liter Duramax is designed to provide diesel power for 1/2-ton trucks and big SUVs like the Hummer H2.
photo courtesy GM
Almost as quickly as General Motors announced it was pulling the plug on its new DOHC V-8, the successor to the Northstar, it disclosed that the GM Powertrain plant in North Tonawanda, New York, that had been expected to build it will instead produce this next-generation Duramax diesel, slated for 2010 light truck and SUV models. Notice anything unusual about it?

One thousand … two thousand … time’s up. Look at the engine, and you’ll notice that there’s blank metal cast onto the cylinder heads where the exhaust ports are normally located. This Duramax has neither intake nor exhaust manifolds in the manner that we usually recognize them. Unveiled last week in the run-up to the North American International Auto Show, the engine is a reversed-head design, meaning the exhaust ports face upward, toward the block valley, where the variable-geometry turbocharger, EGR cooler and oxidation catalyst all reside. The intake ports are inside the heads, just beneath the cam covers for the intake valves, which obviates the conventional intake manifold, as well.

As displayed, the 2010 Duramax displaces 4.5 liters, and essentially matches the exterior proportions of GM’s current-generation gasoline small-block V-8. The advanced breathing layout contributes greatly to its compactness. Rated at 310hp, with industry-leading NVH and emissions performance, the Duramax would seem to be a logical fit in any number of large front-drive cars as the increasingly tough federal CAFÉ standards take effect.

[BUIZILLA]

http://www.hemmings.com/newsletter/newsletter.html?volume=3&issue=32&id=1496&refer=news&emlid=170470#1496

[gcarter]

That's pretty interesting Jim.
On one hand, it looks like a lot of heat right on top of the engine (would plastic hoods work next to a large heat sink like that??), on the other hand it would seem to make maintenance a lot easier.

[BUIZILLA]

some of you know I have a good *plant* inside GMC engineering.... as in *hands on, take it home for a week* insider... this engine is going to blow away the competition, it is slated for next platform generation 2010 1/2 ton 'Burbs and Tahoe's, yup, Tahoe's too (shhhhhhhhhh)... it will have an electric 6 speed 4L85E derivitive tranny.... everything is done, except the mangling that GM corporate/marketing will PROBABLY do to destroy any worthyness this package has going for it... GM's track record is abyssmal lately, borderline pathetic...

on another note, the CF series (cab forward) Ford trucks are really great vehicles, they have a V6 4.5L Powerstroke that is getting very good reviews from owner cycles... Ford dropped the ball on marketing this truck as it REALLY fits a class 4/5 vehicle need that Isuzu, Mitsi, Hino, and UD dominate... Ford will probably kill this engine, due to overlapping parts, as their love/hate relationship with Navistar is not lovey dovey at the moment..

which brings up a ????, why not make a V6 out of the 6.4 Ford diesel for the Expedition/Navigator/F150???

[gcarter]

which brings up a ????, why not make a V6 out of the 6.4 Ford diesel for the Expedition/Navigator/F150???
I can think of one reason.....90* V-6 probably wouldn't run very smoothly in the upscale-car like Expidition/navigator w/o developing a balance shaft for it ($$$$$$$$$).

[Donziweasel]

The 2009 F-150 is going to be outfitted with a 6 speed electronic tranny as well. Seems to be the wave of the future for the 1/2 ton stuff, be it Ford or Chevy.

Any word on the Dodge small turbo diesel? I hear it is under developement.

One question that came up is the cost of deisel. Currently, at least in Jackson, diesel is more expensive than unleaded (3.41 a gallon vs 3.02 a gallon for unleaded). It was opposite 2 years ago. The question is- Will the production of all these smaller turbo diesels drive up the price of deisel due to more demand? With 100,000 production units of the F-150 alone, not including Chevy and Dodge, there will be more thirst for diesel fuel. My company spent $194,000.00 on diesel alone last year.

[BUIZILLA]

if you read thru the lines of the article, GM killed the replacement Northstar engine idea to hog the Tonawanda plant for the V6 Dmax.... to do that means they are REALLY banking on oil burners....

problem is they have to sell the US public on the idea that oil burners are cool.... just because 55% of Europe thinks this way doesn't mean we will....

[gold-n-rod]

problem is they have to sell the US public on the idea that oil burners are cool.... just because 55% of Europe thinks this way doesn't mean we will....

Oh he11 yes, I remember a lot of cool diesels:

the diesel Olds 88:smash:
the diesel Cadillac DeVille:smash:
the diesel Cutlass:smash:
the diesel Chevette:smash::smash::smash:
the diesel Buick 225:smash:
the diesel Blazer!!! :smash:

Thanks for the memories!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[roadtrip se]

if you read thru the lines of the article, GM killed the replacement Northstar engine idea to hog the Tonawanda plant for the V6 Dmax.... to do that means they are REALLY banking on oil burners....
problem is they have to sell the US public on the idea that oil burners are cool.... just because 55% of Europe thinks this way doesn't mean we will....

I have heard good things about the new GM small diesel package, but the proof will be when it hits the street.

I am with you on the acceptance issues, especially when the new package is coming out of the company that screwed up the diesel market in the States to begin with. Whisper, Oldsmobile 350...

I believe the public will wake up to the concept of diesel based on mileage and particularly durability, once they start replacing battery packs on the hybrids over the next few years. The dirty little secret about these things is that they really aren't designed for a life much over 100K miles. A diesel should run twice that with basic maintenance.

Edit: Looks like Randy posted about the same time I did on the GM legacy of powerful diesel performance. This will be the biggest issue for them, heavy truck duramax performance aside.

[Gearhead99]

US drivers have resisted diesels through out the years. The Olds diesel mess in the 70's didn't help matter either.

Europeans maintain their cars better then the average American. Heck, most Americans don't even get the oil & filter changed often enough. Their excuse, "Too busy to stop and have it done".

Diesel's need oil & filter changes and also the fuel filters changed. Many of my customers choke alittle when they get their oil changed in their diesel. They expect 5 quart change, instead of a diesels 12-15 quart change. Filters are bigger and more $$$ too.

I'm all for the diesel, but it will be a long hard road to get the American drivers to convert. Especially since diesel isn't any cheaper.

[roadtrip se]

is driven through gasoline being taxed at a much higher rate than diesel. Pollution regs are much softer therre too.

The next generation of diesels will be 50 state emissions compliant, quiet, and powerful at the low end. The trick will be getting people to test drive them. Once they do, they will like them, especially when they look at that EPA sticker.

It is also easier to make a case for the premium for the engine package based on costs of ownership when you look at the longer life of these things. This is where hybrid owners are really going to get scr**ed.

As for maintenance costs, it is an issue. But getting people to maintain any kind of vehicle these days is a battle. If it breaks, we'll fix it, but until then...

[Donziweasel]

Buiz,
Don't forget the gutless wonder diesel of the 80's in the Chevy 6.2L. A whopping 130 hp and 260 ft #'s of torque out of 6.2L.

[BUIZILLA]

the Chevette used an Isuzu motor....

the story's I can tell about the Olds diesel's... some are hilarious...

there were 2 different 6.2's... 130 and 155 hp, Lord help you if you were at 10,000 ft ASL with the 130 hp and 2.93 gears combo.... I probably did 75-80 turbo installations on 6.2's over the years, big improvement...

actually Ford used the Beemer diesel in the Lincoln Continental slant back body and 524TD Beemer's, that was/is a GREAT engine... wait until BMW releases their new 3 series sedan in a diesel, yowzaa................................ :cool:

the newer Benz with the CDI is extremely impressive, as is the Grand Cherokee... you truly have to drive the Cherokee to appreciate what a great engine combo that REALLY is...

now, convincing the soccer mom mentality not to mistake the green/red/yellow labels at the pump is another matter... :wink:

[gold-n-rod]

the story's I can tell about the Olds diesel's... some are hilarious...

Do tell.....