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mnorton
01-04-2008, 03:33 PM
What's the best way to added ponies to a 460 king cobra on a poor mans budget?:eek!:

chappy
01-04-2008, 03:50 PM
What's the best way to added ponies to a 460 king cobra on a poor mans budget?:eek!:

Are you trying to get more speed out of a Z25?

mnorton
01-04-2008, 04:13 PM
Yes, I would like to have a mid 80 mph boat. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

RedDog
01-04-2008, 04:31 PM
Yes, I would like to have a mid 80 mph boat. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

get off of the poor man's budget if you want to see more than 60 or so in the Z25 (sorry :garfield:)

super charger is probably the best bang for the buck but that still isn't cheap and then you may see 70???

The Hedgehog
01-04-2008, 05:14 PM
get off of the poor man's budget if you want to see more than 60 or so in the Z25 (sorry :garfield:)

super charger is probably the best bang for the buck but that still isn't cheap and then you may see 70???

That is about right. If you have a fresh engine you can slap on a Procharger and that should net you around 70 with 5 lbs of boost.

It costs a bunch to run 80's in any IO boat. You need serious hp for that and it becomes incrementally more expensive.

CHACHI
01-04-2008, 06:04 PM
.....incrementally more expensive.
Don't you mean exponentialy?
Ken

mnorton
01-04-2008, 06:30 PM
My boat currently runs 60 mph. I could add a strong cam, performer RPM intake and upgrade the exhaust for less than $1,000. I think adding 80-90 hp would get me to 70 mph.

ruthless
01-04-2008, 06:43 PM
70-90 horse will not get you 20mph,you will need a super charger and n.o.s but if you do that build the lower end of the engine to handle it. just like a drag car anything lower than 12 seconds is about 8-10k a second .good luck.:crossfing:

mnorton
01-04-2008, 06:55 PM
Ruthless,
I stated 80-90 hp would get me to 70mph not 80 mph. Thanks for the advice but since I'm a former drag racer with a 7second chevelle I know what horsepower costs. :shocking:

f_inscreenname
01-04-2008, 06:55 PM
My boat currently runs 60 mph. I could add a strong cam, performer RPM intake and upgrade the exhaust for less than $1,000. I think adding 80-90 hp would get me to 70 mph.


GPS what you have if not done already.
I went from a 360ci Mopar to a 454 Chevy in the same boat and picked up about 7mph. Again it's not cheap to go fast. I know first hand. My wallet will be gimping after I look at a set of heads tomorrow.

ruthless
01-04-2008, 07:01 PM
MY BAD.
90 horse may get you to 70, if not maybe close. let us know how it goes. again good luck:nilly:

chappy
01-04-2008, 08:37 PM
I'm not used to wrenching on a 460, but these guys had some cool ideas.......... http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=24286&highlight=460+omc

joel3078
01-04-2008, 09:43 PM
This is rough estimates but it's simple to think about for the Z25 hull

60mph = 350hp
70mph = 500hp
80mph = 800hp + extras to make boat stabile and not self destruct.

The Hedgehog
01-04-2008, 10:34 PM
Ruthless,
I stated 80-90 hp would get me to 70mph not 80 mph. Thanks for the advice but since I'm a former drag racer with a 7second chevelle I know what horsepower costs. :shocking:

I would not try to apply drag racing principals to the marine environment. You will not even be close! It takes much more expensive equipment to push something uphill constantly at high speeds than down a strip for a few seconds. Much more expensive. As my engine builder told me, you can throw a bunch of that auto stuff out the door. :smash:


And yes, it is exponentially more expensive once you break 70. Unless you are dealing with lifting ventilating hulls, I would use 15-20 hp per mph as rule on heavier boats.

The Hedgehog
01-04-2008, 10:38 PM
My boat currently runs 60 mph. I could add a strong cam, performer RPM intake and upgrade the exhaust for less than $1,000. I think adding 80-90 hp would get me to 70 mph.

A grand for 10 mph? The best you can do is 10 mph for the cost of a $5,500 procharger. I wish that it was that easy. You can multiply that times ten for the first 15 mph.

Lenny
01-05-2008, 12:35 AM
A grand for 10 mph? The best you can do is 10 mph for the cost of a $5,500 procharger. I wish that it was that easy. You can multiply that times ten for the first 15 mph.

This is not going to be cheap. :eek: :eek: :eek:
I wish you luck. A single 460, in a Z-25, and 80 GPS... what, nitro in the tank and 1000 HP ? Like BigXZ said, not likely... :(

If you figure it out, please start your own Company and we will buy your products. No, this is NOT land.

Not condecending in any way, but trying to move a half full beer can, upstream, 24/7 and achieve results, well... needs, a lot of torque and ponies and longevity.

I bet when you turned your drag car off at (?) 150-175 ? it could have run another 5 miles. Well, these things stop, (as in ignition off) in about 150' ...

98shovel
01-05-2008, 05:21 PM
460 king ,fully preped bottom end ,alum. heads with a bunch of work ,10/1 forged piston ,custom crower cam,
aed preped 900 holley, blue thunder intake with a bunch of work ,custom made long tube headers, no muffs ,lower leg preped ,labbed and tweked 14.5x24 prop ,bottom of hull fully done ,81.5 on gps in a 22 testarossa @5100
dont know how much it cost cause i wont ad my bills for parts up i did the labor

Tony
01-05-2008, 05:40 PM
22 t'rossa vs. Z-25...I'm with Lenny on this one.


:beer:

Carl C
01-05-2008, 05:51 PM
What they said. :nilly:

BUIZILLA
01-05-2008, 05:56 PM
I've never seen a fast whale... :nilly:

The Hedgehog
01-05-2008, 06:46 PM
460 king ,fully preped bottom end ,alum. heads with a bunch of work ,10/1 forged piston ,custom crower cam,
aed preped 900 holley, blue thunder intake with a bunch of work ,custom made long tube headers, no muffs ,lower leg preped ,labbed and tweked 14.5x24 prop ,bottom of hull fully done ,81.5 on gps in a 22 testarossa @5100
dont know how much it cost cause i wont ad my bills for parts up i did the labor

That is some cool sounding work. You got any pics of that setup around?

LKSD
01-05-2008, 07:13 PM
Wow, this is a good one...

LKSD
01-05-2008, 07:25 PM
Ok silly $hit aside.. Here is some no BS info..

The non step hull takes a lot more power on these to get cooking..

To pull 10 mph from where you are will take a big increase in power & 20 mph a huge increase in power. Unless you are propped all wrong & have a boat load of barnicles.. :D

A cam, prop, intake & exhaust upgrade will probably get you at best in the vacinity of 4-7 mph.. The exhaust for the BB ford will be quite pricey & would probably be best to go with a set of CMI for what you want..

To get a solid 10 you would most likley have to get into the block & add some more compression & do some trick head work..

To get 15-20 you would have the easiest time doing so with a blower..

To add more than a couple MPH it will be very very costly.. Especially working on a marine BB ford application..

Your knowledge that you may have from the cars isnt bad & could still be applied to this, but only to a limited extent.. Also dont feel bad, because many people that get a boat are also under many of the same assumptions as you initially..

For what it is worth you may want to just try repropping & possibly a perf intake & carb and just be happy with a little bit more pep.. The boat you have is still a cool ride & IT'S A DONZI.. :) :)

Enjoy the boat & congrats on the Z.. :) Jamie / Lakeside

.

harbormaster
01-06-2008, 07:54 AM
Matt,

I work for Victory Marine and I am always working with folks who want to go faster. It is never cheap
The facts are as follows

1) Your boat is heavy. It was built well and is an excellent sports cruiser. It has a wide,flat no-stepped hull.

2) Ford performance part are freaking expensive. You will spend twice as much as the Chevy guy to go 10mph faster.

What you want to do is possible. There are two directions you can go in; Supercharged and Naturally asperated. With either direction you will need to rebuild your engine first to insure you have a strong foundation.

1) Supercharging - you will need to build a lower compression engine with a strong bottom end.

2)Naturally aspirated - This can be like the engine above but with more compression. Spend the money on heads cam intake carb exhausts. The optimum setup would be fuel injection.

Check out the stroker 460 engines at http://www.crateengine.net/ You might get some ideas.

Boring and stroking can give major power increased.

The life of your outdrive will be decreased with the increase in power.

Remember when doing all of this.... Do you want to go boat riding or boat fixing? You WILL have less seat time.

I recommend you spend some money on nice bling for your engine compartment. When parked at the local watering hole, you will get more looks. Also invest on a remotely operated hatch actuator.

If you still want build a motor, buy a spare and build it while you are boating with your existing engine.

Here are some bench marks on my costs.

I got a free 454 that had ingested water. I threw the intake, carb, heads, cam, and lifters in the dumpster. I then beat out the stuck pistons with a sledgehanner.

Then I started.

My Machine shop rebuilt and balanced my longblock with the following:
9.5 to 1 30 over JE pistons.
crane cam.
stock rods with larger rod bolts and clevite bearings.
dual springs on heads.
parts and labor $2500.00

ported 990 heads with stainless valves off ebay $950.00

Crane roller rockers $200.00

GM dual plane aluminum intake. free from poodle. Usually $100 bucks.

750 holley 150.00 ebay

New stainless Marine exhausts. free (whined tilll boss gave them to me.) usually 1800.00

Total Approx cost $5700 not counting gaskets nuts bolts etc.

RedDog
01-06-2008, 09:15 AM
Hummmm ...

A built Ford - does anyone around here remember the 1100 HP, 565 cubic inches, supercharged Ford in Wa-Lo?

http://www.donzi.net/photos/MOV00704.MPG

Seems there is another video around but I couldn't find it

gcarter
01-06-2008, 10:02 AM
Hummmm ...
A built Ford - does anyone around here remember the 1100 HP, 565 cubic inches, supercharged Ford in Wa-Lo?
http://www.donzi.net/photos/MOV00704.MPG
Seems there is another video around but I couldn't find it
And as a V-drive boat, the 80 MPH it does is REALLY fast. :smash:

fasttrucker
01-06-2008, 11:27 AM
My boat currently runs 60 mph. I could add a strong cam, performer RPM intake and upgrade the exhaust for less than $1,000. I think adding 80-90 hp would get me to 70 mph.Rule is 25-30 hp=1 to 3 mph increase.You might get 65mph?

Donziweasel
01-06-2008, 01:26 PM
Ford head technology is seriously behind Chevy. Start with your top end and see what happens-

Cam, Heads, Intake, carb.

If not enough, supercharge!

The Hedgehog
01-06-2008, 01:54 PM
Rule is 25-30 hp=1 to 3 mph increase.You might get 65mph?


Hey FT, are you going to put a blower on that big 28ZX? I bet that there is someone in your area that could help you with that.

That should go pretty good on that setup you have. A big built up 502 with alum heads ought to like a little boost. Running mid 80's would sure be fun

Staffan Berg
01-06-2008, 02:57 PM
Listen to HarborMaster:

"Do you want to go boat riding or boat fixing?"

Lie a little :crossfing:and save your dollars.

glashole
01-07-2008, 07:27 AM
Listen to HarborMaster:

"Do you want to go boat riding or boat fixing?"

Lie a little :crossfing:and save your dollars.


I agree

save your money and buy a faster boat when you can afford it

chasing speed is expensive and faster is never fast enough

mjw930
01-07-2008, 07:42 AM
I agree

save your money and buy a faster boat when you can afford it

chasing speed is expensive and faster is never fast enough

I was waiting for someone to make that comment.

It sounds like the Z25 hull isn't designed for the kind of speeds you are talking about so you need to throw a disproportionate amount of money at the motor to get there. You would be far better off doing the math to see what you can get for your boat plus your motor budget to see what that buys you in a faster hull.

As a point of reference, I used to have a Velocity 26 (currently called the 280). Stock in 1996 with a 454 Mag (350 hp) it ran 65 mph. $15,000 later (and a lot of the stuff I got was free or cheap) I had a 468 CI motor making 540 HP @ the propped redline of 5800 RPM that ran a solid 84 on GPS. Consider that was a relatively fast, non-ventilated hull and it still cost me $15K to get 19 MPH.

You need to understand the limits of the hull. Once you get past the design maximum you need to add HP at a rate that is ridiculous. It never pays to try to go that far past the hull's sweet spot. On my Velocity 85 MPH is the sweat spot, after that you can go to 1000 HP and barely see high 90's. It's all relative.

The Hedgehog
01-07-2008, 09:58 AM
I was waiting for someone to make that comment.

It sounds like the Z25 hull isn't designed for the kind of speeds you are talking about so you need to throw a disproportionate amount of money at the motor to get there. You would be far better off doing the math to see what you can get for your boat plus your motor budget to see what that buys you in a faster hull.

As a point of reference, I used to have a Velocity 26 (currently called the 280). Stock in 1996 with a 454 Mag (350 hp) it ran 65 mph. $15,000 later (and a lot of the stuff I got was free or cheap) I had a 468 CI motor making 540 HP @ the propped redline of 5800 RPM that ran a solid 84 on GPS. Consider that was a relatively fast, non-ventilated hull and it still cost me $15K to get 19 MPH.

You need to understand the limits of the hull. Once you get past the design maximum you need to add HP at a rate that is ridiculous. It never pays to try to go that far past the hull's sweet spot. On my Velocity 85 MPH is the sweat spot, after that you can go to 1000 HP and barely see high 90's. It's all relative.


15 k to get to 85 is pretty good.

fasttrucker
01-07-2008, 10:45 AM
Hey FT, are you going to put a blower on that big 28ZX? I bet that there is someone in your area that could help you with that.
That should go pretty good on that setup you have. A big built up 502 with alum heads ought to like a little boost. Running mid 80's would sure be funWould like to do that but,$$$ is really tight.Last year I had 5 contracts and a bad year overall.At least I wont have to pay taxes...I hope. 2008 SHOULD BE A GOOD YEAR i HAVE A NEW CONTRACT WITH FED-X.I need to pay off the credit-cards that I had to run-up and with the price of high-test gas "that I must run".It looks like I will keep the motor alone this year.Still 75+ gps isnt slow.:yes:

MOP
01-07-2008, 11:56 AM
Two steps to much faster bragging speeds!

1.Throw the GPS away!

2.Drill the speedo pickup hole a bit larger!

You will thrill them and not kill them!

KerrLake
01-07-2008, 11:59 AM
I just finished a 454 in the same boat. I spent ALOT of money from boring the block to high perf pistons, cam, intake, carb, alum heads, exhaust, blah, blah, blah. It ain't going but so fast. But, it sounds awesome and looks like it might go that fast!

The Hedgehog
01-07-2008, 12:47 PM
Would like to do that but,$$$ is really tight.Last year I had 5 contracts and a bad year overall.At least I wont have to pay taxes...I hope. 2008 SHOULD BE A GOOD YEAR i HAVE A NEW CONTRACT WITH FED-X.I need to pay off the credit-cards that I had to run-up and with the price of high-test gas "that I must run".It looks like I will keep the motor alone this year.Still 75+ gps isnt slow.:yes:

No it is not slow and you should be able to spank plenty of Velocity Boats in the rough water with that setup.

showtime
01-12-2008, 09:08 PM
Call the old guy (his name escapes me)at Drew Marine 509-535-3393 he is very knowledgeable about Fords and a really helpful and nice guy. I have a Z33 with twin 460s and his suggestions will suprise you as they did me! For one, the stock manifolds will support 650hp so don't waste money on some very expensive headers. He will tell you which intake manifold that works the best and even what oil to use! I am a Ford guy and drag raced small block Fords for several years but as they said before, marine engines and drag engines are different.

BigGrizzly
01-13-2008, 10:09 AM
I have an 80+ mph 22 Criterion. As anyone on the board who has seen it probably has ridden in it. I have built many Fords for Drag racing, Road racing and Marine applications. My Corsican is a 351 Cleveland V4 heads, custom designed cam, etc. To get 80 on that boat is going to take 700 Hp, and I don't care if it is a Ford Chevy, Mopar or what ever. If cheap is is under $15,000 it can't be done unless parts are free!!! Then there is the minor steering issue. Been there and done that, got the tee shirt! Can't wear it any more because it got soiled with over spray from my shorts. All you guys have heard it before " I just hopped up my engine and it is slower then before". The boat you have is a nice boat, add 5->7 mph and be happy. Good luck in your quest.

Air 22
01-13-2008, 10:54 AM
Go Blue or RED:wink:...Just ask Doc or Ted or Todd..:smash:cool::biggrin.::biggrin.:
:[url]http://www.mercuryracing.com/products/sterndrives/large_hp525efi.php[/url

]http://www.ilmor.com/gallery.html

fasttrucker
01-13-2008, 11:21 AM
No it is not slow and you should be able to spank plenty of Velocity Boats in the rough water with that setup.
I will tell you I went to www.boattrader.com and did a donzi search.I found two older 28 scorpian models with the twin 377 motors asking $75,000.These boats stock run in the low 80,s