How To Change Water Pump Impeller - Bravo 1

[Carl C]

This is on my list of things to do this winter. I have an '05 22C w/Bravo1X. Where is the water pump :confused:. Do I just pull off the lower gear case like on an outboard :crossfing:? I need to do this since I have 3 seasons and over 110 hours on boat. Thanks.

[Carl C]

This is my first IO. Is the pump belt driven? Is it an automotive type pump or a rubber outboard style impeller? I've looked through my maintenance manual and can't find anything about the water pump except every 300 hours or 3 years it says to "disassemble and inspect the seawater pump and replace worn components". It's a 496 HO. I guess I need to know if there is a rubber impeller anywhere that I should replace??? "I'm so confused!"

[Carl C]

Thanks. Send ordering info too!

[yeller]

Order from Poodle, Carl. His prices are good and he's great to deal with. I picked up an impeller from him about a year ago and he actually sent it out before he received payment! I wish my wife trusted me that much. :biggrin.:

BTW: I should have changed mine already......but haven't. My experience with I/O's is the same as yours, so I'm glad you asked this question.

[RedDog]

Here is a good "how-to" article on changing an impeller with pictures - http://www.speedwake.com/upload/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18967

[Carl C]

Here is a good "how-to" article on changing an impeller with pictures - http://www.speedwake.com/upload/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18967 That's awesome. Thanks. It doesn't look too hard but I sure hope mine looks better than the one in that thread :eek!:. I will order the kit from 'Poodle and do it soon.:alligator

[RedDog]

That's awesome. Thanks. It doesn't look too hard ...

In a 22C you do have to stand on your head for a while. It hurts me but maybe I'm older than you...

I'll still do it myself before next season...

[Carl C]

In a 22C you do have to stand on your head for a while. It hurts me but maybe I'm older than you...

I'll still do it myself before next season... I'm no kid but I'm small enough to get right into the engine "room". I need someone to hand me tools though. I climbed in there head first once and almost got stuck! I guess I'll get the pump apart first and see what I need since I've heard these pumps don't have a sleeve and if it's sucked sand it may need a new housing.

[Pismo]

It's a pain even if you take the whole pump out. Getting the new impeller in and the housing closed back up is the pain.

[Carl C]

MadPoodle, I am ready to order the water pump rebuild kit. Do you still have them? It is an '05 22C 496 HO. Serial # DNAC2009I405. Engine #0W06740. I need a fuel filter cartridge too, it is the new paper cartridge type. Please send ordering info if you have the parts. You can post here or send PM or call me at 248-330-0048. Thanks.

[brwn234]

The "how to" from Speedwake.com was great. I messed around forever trying to get the impeller in with all the vanes going the same direction. If you just get it in there and rotate the pulley by hand they will straighten themselves out. Makes it alot easier.

[Carl C]

Yes, I'll use that thread too. The impeller looks the same as an OB one. I used to put those in by soaking them in hot water first then dipping in anti-freeze. Then they are soft and slippery. I would not use grease like the guy in that thread. MP Scott, please see two posts back.

[gcarter]

Yes, I'll use that thread too. The impeller looks the same as an OB one. I used to put those in by soaking them in hot water first then dipping in anti-freeze. Then they are soft and slippery. I would not use grease like the guy in that thread. MP Scott, please see two posts back.
Dish soap works very well. Also, if you can find it, silicone grease. There are some lubricants that will, if the impellor is neoprene, cause it to swell.

[osur866]

I can say this is one of the things already checked off the list of already done, save yourself the trouble and remove the whole pump and work on it on the bench, silicon greese as g. carter states worked for me and an extra set of hands :doh:the hardest part was removing and reintsalling the pump even with the exhaust manifolds and risers off but a 22 you probably have more room :crossfing: Steve

[Carl C]

I like the dish detergent idea but you know what else would probably work good??

K-Y Jelly!:eek!:

I'm definately going to remove the pump first. Maybe I'll document the process with pics on a new thread so we don't have to go to Speedwake. I PM'd MP and am waiting to hear back. I want the boat ready to go as soon as the ice is gone.

[mjw930]

Wow, I guess I'm a glutton for punishment since I've never removed the pump to replace the impeller. It's not a lot of fun but it's not that hard either. Liquid dish soap is the way to go for impeller lubricant. OTOH, I was always able to get in next to the motor, that is a but tougher with a 7' beam (and my wide ass ;) )

[glashole]

I have always been under the impression that it is a good idea to install a new impellor kit at the beginning of every season

and keep a spare in the boat

and do the install yourself to get used to it

You only have to have it go once to understand this :nilly:

[RedDog]

You really need to pull the pump out of the boat so you can inspect the inside of the housing / wear plate for ridges or other defects that can shorten the life of a new impeller. The plastic housing and wear plate may need replacement as well.

[Ranman]

RedDog is right. Plus, it's easier to remove the whols unit since you just need to disconnect the inlet/outlet hoses and then 2 bolts for the bracket. Once the pump is in your hands on the bench, you can disassemble the assembly, inspect everything and replace as necessary.

I change my impeller about every 100 hours and typically I replace the housing just to be safe. I have several old "backup" housings that could be used in a pinch and I keep a spare impeller in my boating kit. Changing it on an 18 is a bitch, but it can be done in about an hour at the ramp if necessary.

I've used Merc's 2-4-C grease on the vanes when installing for years and have never actually lost an impeller during use. Even with all the shallow, "drive up" idling I do going in and out of the sandy bottomed bay, my impeller and housing have always looked pretty decent at the 100 hour change time. Running them dry is what gets you.

[Carl C]

OK, I'll stay with the original plan of pulling the pump off the motor. I know I've sucked a little sand up on St. Clair and some muck on White Lake. It will be interesting to see what shape the pump is in after 3 seasons. I'll be doing this on monday and will post pics.

[osur866]

I'm not sure when they changed the pumps but the newer style pumps are heavier and made out of brass. Mine was a real pain to remove but do able not much room in an 18. Mine did have slight wear to the inside after 120 hrs. of use. If you look at the prices of the newer pumps you might need to sit down first they are not cheep to replace not like the older ones where.

[gcarter]

I've posted this picture before. It's of the SBC in the Minx. The point is that it's easy to swap over to a crank driven pump. They are about $150.00 w/the torque bracket, and can be universally mounted. Another thing I found out after mounting this one is that 1 1/4" hose will fit on the OUTSIDE of the spigots.
But the main advantage is that it's a ten minute job to change the impellor, plus you get to lose a belt. None of those are bad things. :smash:

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34764&d=1205500979

[RedDog]

I... plus you get to lose a belt. None of those are bad things. :smash:


This approach won't work if you have a serpentine belt like I do ('98 502) and probably the 496s

[Carl C]

George, I don't think I can use that set-up since I do have the serpentine belt and also the pulleys are different sizes so the pump might spin too fast. That's a cool pump but I'll stay with the stock one. I am going to be a "mythbuster" here. I have 153 hours and 3 seasons on the original impeller. I sucked a bunch of muck on White Lake when I got grounded. You event organizers really need to tell people that the water is 6 inches deep right next to the boat ramp:wink:. I probably missed a buoy though so I accept the blame, anyway it was soft muck and didn't hurt the boat. I also missed a channel marker on Lake St. Clair and found myself running in 6 inches of water with sandy bottom:shocking:! I raised the drive, shut her down, got in the water and pushed it back to the channel. The only damage was that the skeg and lower drive were sandblasted and had to be polished. I had to have drawn up quite a bit of sand. Anyway, if my impeller is still intact :crossfing: then I'll take that as proof that annual impeller changes are overkill and if it's damaged other than normal wear :( then I'll jump on the annual bandwagon. I talked to MP and he has all the parts in stock so I'll get the pump apart monday or tuesday and order what I need. I'll post what I find. (damn that's a big picture)

[gcarter]

This approach won't work if you have a serpentine belt like I do ('98 502) and probably the 496s
I'm curious as to why?
Doesn't it have a hub w/a bolt pattern like this?
OK, I see.....it would obviously shorten the belt and would effect the location of the tensioner.
I bet it could still be done.

[Carl C]

Yippee, I got it apart today. After 3 years and 153 hours the impeller is still in one piece! The housing is in good shape too so I'll only need an o-ring and impeller which I'll order from MP. One question. In pic one there are two fittings where the hard plastic air hoses go. The hoses just pulled out. Are they supposed to come out like that and do I just push them back in?:crossfing: This job is not too hard if you are able to lay in the engine room like I did.

[glashole]

Carl don't think that i am starting anything here, and this will be my last post in this thread

In the interest of saving money I am sure you could probably get 4 - 5 years out of an impellor

I reason say that you should replace it every year is that this is an item that may wear out in the most inconvient of locations. where it will require you to be pulled in (thanks again Ken) to the dock or screw around in the middle of a lake somewhere for a couple of hours (3/4hr waiting for the motor to cool down enough so you can actually come close to touching anything and 1 1/2h upside down in the bilge

Keep in mind that an engine heats up pretty quickly when it isn't getting enough water and if you aren't paying attention this could become a very costly issue in a hurry

At about $100 per kit ( a kit includes the outer casing and the impellor with the gaskets etc.) I will continue to to replace them at 1 year intervals unless I feel it should be done more frequently

Shea :)

[Carl C]

Carl don't think that i am starting anything here, and this will be my last post in this thread

:) Of course you're not starting anything and it needn't be your last post. I put up these threads to get real life input from real life boaters and I appreciate your suggestion. In fact I think I pushed my luck going 153 hours on the impeller and I am going to start replacing it every TWO years. I was really glad to see the impeller in one piece so that I didn't have to do the back flushing thingy. :eek!:

[Carl C]

PM sent. Will do with the pic. It's already swelled up a little, it was pretty cold when I removed it. It shows just a little cracking starting. Thanks.

[Carl C]

C,

PM me an addy, the kit is on my desk.. UPS will haul it away tomorrow, Heidi will thank you for there being one less thing on my desk :D :D

When you get it, post a picture of the new impeller next to the old one.. I think you'll understand when you see it ;) ;) I got the kit today, thanks. We also got a couple inches of snow today. The boat's inside but it's hard to get the garage warm so this will wait for a warmer day. Here are the pics. Honestly I think the old one looks really good still and what I thought were small cracks are really just creases. It was never run dry except for jumpimg. Does that count?

[Donzigo]

Carl C,

You are one lucky boater to get 152 hours our of an impeller. I can't get that kind of life. I have replced this item many times on my 454s and quess that I will on my new 496s too. I keep an extra kit in my workshop so that I can replace it without ruining a weekend boating experience. I can do tha whole job in about 1 hour on the 454. I hope it't that easy witht the 496s.

I would go with the soap idea. I never like putting solvents or grease or whatever on rubber type things.

Richard

[Carl C]

After seeing the imploded impeller in the Speedwake link I was concerned about what I would fine. That one had fewer hours and the same 3 years and had totally failed and I run my boat kind of hard. Maybe it was assembled with grease:eek!:. I'll use soap. Some rubbers are made to work in oil and grease, some are not. Mine will not see any. BTW, the 496 is quite a bit different from that link but similar enough to figure it out. The job is pretty easy if you climb right in and lay next to the engine which isn't hard to do and I'm average size and 54 years old. I don't know why you guys with 22s are talking about standing on your head. Unless you are over 200#s you should be able to get right in there. Take the belt off and climb in with a 10mm wrench, 5/16 small socket/ratchet for the hose clamps, a screwdriver to pry off the hoses and I think that's all I needed to get the pump off. I'll put it together next week if it warms up a little and try to get someone to take a pic of me in the engine room. MP gave me a good deal and shipped the parts before payment. What a guy.:beer:

[Air 22]

Carl..The change out is easy. Make sure u remove the o-ring that is on the impeller shaft(around the outside base of shaft) A new one comes with the impeller kit....its about the diameter of a Nickel. A small socket set with extensions works great...be careful not to over torque the bolts..u can crack the case...ask me how I found this out:doh:...:smash:

I carry a spare impeller kit in my "Just in case" Bag...I actually had the impeller case crack spewing water when the rpm went above 1500...some of these impellers are lemons some are not...but a good idea is to change them each season and or inspect them especially if boating in sandy area's etc...imo..

Poodle is the man for parts:wink:...he re-supplies me often..:cool:

[Carl C]

Carl..The change out is easy. Make sure u remove the o-ring that is on the impeller shaft(around the outside base of shaft) A new one comes with the impeller kit....its about the diameter of a Nickel. A small socket set with extensions works great...be careful not to over torque the bolts..u can crack the case...ask me how I found this out:doh:...:smash:

I carry a spare impeller kit in my "Just in case" Bag...I actually had the impeller case crack spewing water when the rpm went above 1500...some of these impellers are lemons some are not...but a good idea is to change them each season and or inspect them especially if boating in sandy area's etc...imo..

Poodle is the man for parts:wink:...he re-supplies me often..:cool: I don't have a small o-ring on the shaft or in the kit so mine must be different. I'm not quite sold on annual replacement and will probably go for 2 years. We'll see. MP wouldn't sell me a lemon.:wink:

[Air 22]

I don't have a small o-ring on the shaft or in the kit so mine must be different. I'm not quite sold on annual replacement and will probably go for 2 years. We'll see. MP wouldn't sell me a lemon.:wink:


2yrs??:eek!::eek!: Good luck with that...:doh::hangum::crossfing:

We will look fwd to your post when it fails...:bonk: It's not a matter of IF its a matter of WHEN......:popcorn:

[mjw930]

2yrs??:eek!::eek!: Good luck with that...:doh::hangum::crossfing:

We will look fwd to your post when it fails...:bonk: It's not a matter of IF its a matter of WHEN......:popcorn:

I've run impellers for 2 years here in FL without any failures and that's doing on average 50 - 75 hrs / year. You want to extend the life of your impeller, install a sea strainer. It's not the age that kills impellers as much as it's the stuff that gets into them. Without a strainer I do one every spring.

I've seen guys go 4 years on an impeller with a sea strainer. Also remember that down here boats get run on average at least once a month, usually more, year round. I think the long layups and radical temperature swings up north have something to do with it as well.

[Air 22]

I've run impellers for 2 years here in FL without any failures and that's doing on average 50 - 75 hrs / year. You want to extend the life of your impeller, install a sea strainer. It's not the age that kills impellers as much as it's the stuff that gets into them. Without a strainer I do one every spring.

I've seen guys go 4 years on an impeller with a sea strainer. Also remember that down here boats get run on average at least once a month, usually more, year round. I think the long layups and radical temperature swings up north have something to do with it as well.

Thanks...I have a Hardin Marine Sea Strainer..that doesn't stop sand etc if by accident it gets sucked up....Carl is in MI not FL so his temp conditions are vastly different...I change mine every year regardless..I also don't have a self contained cooled engine as the 496 thus my broken impeller parts can be drawn into the eng..Not Good ...must be the hot/cold temp's doing the damage to the rubber vs a mild temp swing...I another reason to move South..:)

[Carl C]

The service manual says 3 years or 300 hours and I was within that. Mine still looks good 'cept for a little wear. I know you guys are talking from experience when you say yours failed but I wonder why they failed when they are expected to last 3 years minimum.:confused: The one on Speedwake was shattered too.:confused::confused:

[mjw930]

The service manual says 3 years or 300 hours and I was within that. Mine still looks good 'cept for a little wear. I know you guys are talking from experience when you say yours failed but I wonder why they failed when they are expected to last 3 years minimum.:confused: The one on Speedwake was shattered too.:confused::confused:

There you go! Mercury says 3 years / 300 hours. IMHO, it's a self fulfilling prophecy, tell the customer he needs one every year, explain how bad it is if one breaks and they gladly spend the $200+ each spring. Kind of like the 3000 mile oil changes the Jiffylubes of the world tell you. Interesting when the factory says 7500 (or more)......

Some of you boat a lot more than I do but in all the years I have only seen 2 fail while underway. One was because it was run dry the week before when they were flushing the motor, the other was 5 years old.

I know we have all "heard" the stories about people losing their impellers but how many of us have actually had one fail or been there when one has failed?

Just playing devils advocate here, not trying to tell anyone what to do. Changing it every year is cheap insurance so do whatever makes you comfortable.

[Air 22]

There you go! Mercury says 3 years / 300 hours. IMHO, it's a self fulfilling prophecy, tell the customer he needs one every year, explain how bad it is if one breaks and they gladly spend the $200+ each spring. Kind of like the 3000 mile oil changes the Jiffylubes of the world tell you. Interesting when the factory says 7500 (or more)......
Some of you boat a lot more than I do but in all the years I have only seen 2 fail while underway. One was because it was run dry the week before when they were flushing the motor, the other was 5 years old.
I know we have all "heard" the stories about people losing their impellers but how many of us have actually had one fail or been there when one has failed?
Just playing devils advocate here, not trying to tell anyone what to do. Changing it every year is cheap insurance so do whatever makes you comfortable.

BTW.. the impeller kits don't cost 200.00 from Poodle..:)
And like I said b4....Good Luck!

[mjw930]

BTW.. the impeller kits don't cost 200.00 from Poodle..:)
And like I said b4....Good Luck!

I know they don't but if you have your boat serviced by a dealer or independent mechanic it will be well over $200 for parts and labor. Not everyone wrenches on their own boats.

It was the dealers and independants that started the "annual" impeller replacement, not the manufacturer who has done the long term testing. Remember, Mercury warranties the motor and sells an extended warranty as well. To keep that warranty in force you only need to replace the impeller at 3 years or 300 hours.

Again, just making an argument, I replace mine ever 12 - 18 months depending on usage.

[Air 22]

I know they don't but if you have your boat serviced by a dealer or independent mechanic it will be well over $200 for parts and labor. Not everyone wrenches on their own boats.
It was the dealers and independants that started the "annual" impeller replacement, not the manufacturer who has done the long term testing. Remember, Mercury warranties the motor and sells an extended warranty as well. To keep that warranty in force you only need to replace the impeller at 3 years or 300 hours.
Again, just making an argument, I replace mine ever 12 - 18 months depending on usage.

I read the post as one guy Carl asking how to change his own impeller?Not a dealer.. I'm no expert nor claim to be one.Just a fellow Donzi owner passing along experiences I have learned and hope to help other's avoid my mistakes...I'm done with this post. Carl...good luck..whatever u do..its your boat...have fun!:)

[Carl C]

Dwight, I always appreciate your input and take it to heart and it is because of this thread that I won't go 3 years on an impeller again. I have also never heard of one failing before this thread but some of you guys have. I think every 2 years is a good compromise and if I have to learn a lesson the hard way it won't be the first time. The only tool I carry is my all in one plier tool. I'm sorry to see different opinions causing friction again because it shouldn't. I'll probably finish the job tomorrow after my appointment with the tax man.

[BUIZILLA]

i've seen a couple fail the same day..























and never left the driveway :smash:

[Donziweasel]

Never tore one up, but did crack a housing once from not getting all the water out during winterization. For some reason, our last longer up here. Probably the cooler very clean mountain water and my engine temp never gets over 160.

The impellor is pretty old technology. I bet the manufactures could improve on it if they wanted to, or figure out another system. Point being, seen vehicles with original waterpumps after 300,000 miles. Seems Merc is juts trying to make money on replacement costs.

[mjw930]

Air22,

I didn't mean to piss you off, just trying to have a discussion.

It seems very difficult sometimes to have a discussion around here unless everyone agrees........ If everyone agreed life would be boring.

GROUP HUG!

DW,

The most obvious reason the pumps are designed the way they are is because we are drinking "raw" water. That water isn't cleaned or strained so there is ample opportunity to suck up things that will eat up the insides. In addition, if the pump were made more rigid with a metal impeller and housing, like the water pumps you see on cars, you run the risk of doing major damage if you suck up even the least little amount of sand or dirt.

[gcarter]

These pumps are positive displacement.....a dry centrifugal circulating pump can't pull a vacuum. Vane pumps do. The rubber flexible vane pumps are the simpleist pumps in existance.

[mjw930]

FYI,

After all this talk of impellers I finally got around to changing mine today. I noticed the last time I was out that the inlet hose was pulsing, it should be a stready flow. I also noticed when on the hose it wasn't sucking all of the water all the time. That lead me to believe one or 2 of the vanes were gone.

Now, I just bought this boat a couple months ago and have only put about 3 hours on it since then. I've spent the last month or so updating / repairing things I want to be perfect so I start out with a known commodity.

Anyway, I got the pump off and it did have one vane gone. In fact, that vane had lodged itself into the first stage inlet on the pump housing. That explains the pulsing and lower than normal water pressure.

I have no idea how old the impeller was. My guess, based on condition, less than 2 years. It really looks like dirt ingestion cause this, based on the condition of the other vanes.

Here's a tip for those without water pressure gauges. Look at the inlet hose. It should not be pulsating much if any when the engine is running. If it's pulsating that seems to indicate a missing vane or two in the pump.

[RedDog]

I just didn't want to crawl into the bilge or stand on my head this year. I hauled to boat to a dealership with a competent service department and had them do the impeller, change motor / drive oils, lube everything including the drive shaft u-joints, and a few other misc things. Cost me a little but it is done and I'm not sore with bloody knuckles this year. She is ready to go once I put the interior back in and polish her up.

[osur866]

replaced mine this winter also 120hrs. and was the original one looked just like Carl's depending on how many hours of use I feel every other year is fine. The newer style housings are made out of brass and mercury claims that will help them last longer FWIW. Steve

[Johntrip]

Well, MP called me the other day.... I mentioned to him that I was getting ready to replace both impellers and Boom some young gun hand delivers me two kits to my office the next day.......!! Just in time for the weekend project! Will probably try to knock it out tonight which is why I searched and found this thread giving me the knowledge needed for the job.

Thanks Scott...!!


Thanks Donzi Registry!!

[Carl C]

He da man. It's not a bad job if you're able to squeeze into the engine compartment and lay next to the motor. It would help to have a tool gopher though. Good luck.

[BigGrizzly]

Be careful with Scott, You never know what he is capable of. He has helped me out on a number of occasions. That is what HE is about. Do you really that pretty girl Heidie would be hanging with him if he were not:)

[tiger lily]

just a fyi , ive had brand new impellors bite the dust within a week, and not because i put them in wrong or did anything wrong, the more you USE the boat, the longer they last, however, all it takes is one clump of weeds to grab your water intake and that little piece of rubber is smoked, every year since the first 20 cig run, someone always gets weeds on that run and burns one up, not use or hours will destroy them, but sand and weeds will