What motor do I have?

[Flash]

Just started tear down on the motor for a 16 donzi.
What is it?
I know it is Ford, approx 1972
says interceptor, 190 hp.
Heads have 302 stamped on them.
Going to send heads and block to machine shop.
What would be recommended to do to this motor.
Easy upgrades, intake? carb? heads? distr? manifolds?
Not looking to make crazy HP due to small boat just easy and not to much $$$ while at this point.

[olredalert]

------347 stroker kits arent a lot of money and give a boat what it needs,,,,TORQUE!!! That way you dont have an over cammed monster. You can build a milder combo and still get what you want......All the rest of the horsepower stuff is nice but its the cubes.........Bill S

------Oh,,,and,,,Loose the exhaust manifolds.

[MOP]

Before you send that one off consider a reasonably stock 351, that will give about all the poop you could want and will be very reliable!

Phil

[Carl C]

Probably a 302 but not necessarily. Measure the bore and stroke. If it's a 302 it will have a 4" bore and 3" stroke a 289 will have 4" bore and 2.87" stroke. A 351 windsor will be 4" bore and 3.5" stroke. A 351 windsor with aftermarket heads is for sure the best Ford small block. Add a stroker kit for 377 cubes and make big power and torque. Then the SC.........

[Sweet little 16]

what hull number 16,in 1972 it would have been most likely a holman moody motor that left the factory the interceptors came prior to 68-69before HM was offered my point would be the hull is probably a 60's model, the 351 w would not be a good choice has the height becomes an issue and the transom would need work to move the exhaust ports plus the added weight, a mild built 302 is the best power to weight ratio
plus what drive do you have?
pics would be nice
just remember hi po performance parts for a marine ford are harder to find then for a chevy especially a hi po exhaust system that fits
good luck sounds like a great project

[Flash]

boat is 72, motor was not original to boat, motor and drive package came out of another early 70's boat.
Dumb question, how to meaure bore and stroke to determine actual motor?

Thanks,

[Carl C]

They all have a 4" bore but you measure that by measuring across the top of the cylinder. Turn the motor over by hand until one piston is all the way up. It should be flush with the block, now turn the crankshaft until that same piston is at it's lowest point. Use a ruler to measure the distance from the piston top to the top of the bore. It's very easy, all you need is a ruler to get a close enough reading. If it's a bit under 3" it is a 289, exactly 3" is a 302, 3 1/2" is 351w. BTW SL16 is correct that the 351 is bigger and will not be a direct replacement for a 289 or 302.

[Flash]

They all have a 4" bore but you measure that by measuring across the top of the cylinder. Turn the motor over by hand until one piston is all the way up. It should be flush with the block, now turn the crankshaft until that same piston is at it's lowest point. Use a ruler to measure the distance from the piston top to the top of the bore. It's very easy, all you need is a ruler to get a close enough reading. If it's a bit under 3" it is a 289, exactly 3" is a 302, 3 1/2" is 351w. BTW SL16 is correct that the 351 is bigger and will not be a direct replacement for a 289 or 302.

Just measured, it is just over 3" about 3 1/8" , now how about the heads?

Thanks,

[Carl C]

3 1/8 is an odd number. Was the piston flush with the top of the block at top dead center (all the way up)? Sounds like you have a 302. The factory heads have long been the weak point of small block Fords but now there are lots of affordable aftermarket heads available. My experience is limited to cars but I like the cast iron World Products windsor Jr. head. It has a smallish combustion chamber that won't kill your compression, nice big exhaust ports and intake ports that flow well but not too large. Maybe someone with experience with marine small block Fords can chime in.

[BigGrizzly]

Sounds like you have a 302 which has been bored .030 over. I did a new 302 in our 16 nothing to write home about but no problems either

[olredalert]

------If you are already running a 289/302 thats why life is just easier if you stroke the little bugger. Running aftermarket heads just sweetens the deal. A 16 is a small boat. A 347 is plenty of power if you arent going crazy, and then your exhaust is right where you need it and all pulleys and brackets simply bolt right back on. Holman/Moody has a sweet intake manifold for you too. Check their website. Does GLM make exhaust manifolds for small-block Fords??? If they do you could go for their aluminum manifolds and risers too. That would be a sweet combo. Not particularly high-perf manifolds but way better than what you have.........Bill S

[BUIZILLA]

listen to what Red says.... :wink:

[gcarter]

------ Does GLM make exhaust manifolds for small-block Fords??? If they do you could go for their aluminum manifolds and risers too. That would be a sweet combo. Not particularly high-perf manifolds but way better than what you have.........Bill S
VonKamp and I did a search for ANY manifolds, aluminum or not...the pickings are pretty slim.

[Flash]

Did some better measuring, it is 3" stroke.
Block does have 302 cast in it.
Heads have "E" and 8H13 302 and 8H14 302 cast in them.

Thanks,

[BUIZILLA]

judging by the sludge in the 3rd pic...

1) somebody NEVER changed the oil
2) somebody removed the thermostat

listen to what Red says...

[Flash]

I think I will keep the heads and block and have them redone.
What changes would be made to these components.
Cam, pistons etc. What performance gain would there be.
what cost estimate.
How about intake and carb?
I will replace exhaust is they are available.

Thanks,

Again for help.

[gcarter]

Here's a GLM iron manifold.....;

http://bpi.ebasicpower.com/p/GLM51490/Volvo,+OMC+Manifold+for+Ford+302+5.0L,+351+5.8L+V8 +with+Center+Risers

[Sweet little 16]

that was my point , we were going to redo the engine in the 16 351 but the only choice for true performance header type exhaust were hi-teks from down under which are priced right but would not fit without bumping the hatch out and check with Mario I think or someone else here had clearance issues with head bolts and spark plugs with them or having a custom set built real big bucks, so we decided to let it be no sense it getting it to really breathe fire and then dampening it down with a set of stock alum center risers , find an intermediate housing from a SBC/Volvo setup and well the sky is the limit with HIPO stuff for a SBC

[olredalert]

------Seems to me that the GLMs pictured would be way better than the log manifolds pictured on the motor. I know they arent the newest, trickest thing on the market, but they are a step forward for cheap bucks..........Bill S

------I dont work for GLM, by the way, Im just cheap!!!

[BigGrizzly]

Actually there are several iron ones out there that are not logs, that will fit. Truth is they are all about the same and all are better then log types.

[gcarter]

Although they don't list them on their web site, Ocean East Marine can probably sell those Ford GLM manifolds for about $170.00 each. Every penny counts.:wink:

http://oceaneastmarine.com

You can call them for a quote.

[vonkamp]

Hi-Tek makes manifolds for sb fords. I think there was a thread here about a group buy on them. Try doing a search here for Hi-Tek.

http://www.hitekmarine.com.au/ford.htm

[olredalert]

------If I understand this DONZI owners thoughts the Hi-Tecs even at a group buy price would burst the budget. And with a medium-perf motor they would be a bit of over-kill. It sort of sounds like he is going to just slap a cam in his present lo-perf combo which IMHO would be wrong but, hey, its his boat!......Bill S

[Flash]

OK, what speed would be expected with the stock 190 hp. that this motor has? What are other 16's getting out there with what hp?

New exhaust manifolds will happen, new intake and carb will also happen. What increase in hp will this do?

What is next step, reuse existing heads and block. What upgrades can be done to these, what would expected hp be?

Then what speed would this boat get to?

Thanks

again

[boatnut]

Hi-Tek makes manifolds for sb fords. I think there was a thread here about a group buy on them. Try doing a search here for Hi-Tek.
http://www.hitekmarine.com.au/ford.htm

Does anyone know if these Hi-Teks will fit under the hatch of a '69 18 with a H&M 302 pkg? Can they utilize the current transom exh outlet locations? Any disadvantages to them other than the cost issues mentioned? thks, Ed

[chappy]

Does anyone know if these Hi-Teks will fit under the hatch of a '69 18 with a H&M 302 pkg? Can they utilize the current transom exh outlet locations? Any disadvantages to them other than the cost issues mentioned? thks, Ed

:hijack: :happy_bi:

Happy birthday Ed

[BigGrizzly]

With 190 HP and a volvo drive it will do between 48 and 55 mph, wide range I know but this is as close as I will go- too many variables.

[Carl C]

It's not worth putting money into your old heads when you can get a set ready to go for $1,100. I would buy bare heads and go with top shelf valves. Don't go overboard on the heads since this is a small motor that will only see about 5,500 rpm but you should still get rid of the stock heads. Install roller rocker arms. Have your block bored .030 over and install forged pistons. I've seen a lot of cracked skirts on stock 302 pistons. Flat top pistons w/World Products Windsor Jr. heads will give you about 9.5 to 1 compression. Install a good roller timing chain set. Don't go crazy on the intake, carb and cam. Talk to someone with more marine experience about those things and what head gasket to use. Good luck and I hope you can find the $ to do that motor up right! This will not cost you a fortune and your boat is worth it. All IMHO of course. Summit Racing is a good source for parts that don't need to be marine specific.

[Flash]

Thanks for all the responses.
The budget is there to do the right thing to this boat and motor.

I just want to make sure I spend it in the right place and it is worth it. Wasting money on extras with out much benefit does not work for me.

What speed do most of you cruise with these boats regardless of HP? If I can run stock parts and cruise 50 mph what will realistic cruise be with say 350 hp? I know I can put in reman. stock block and heads for $ 1,500.00

If there is a great advantage I will do it.

Thanks,

[Flash]

Hope I am not draging this out to much.

If I can rebuild existing set up stock and get 50 mph at 190 hp- $ 1,500.00
Not trying to hold anyone to this, just trying to tap into knowledge of what others have tried on 16's and what benifit
they have seen.

What will these mod's each do for me?

1-New GLM exhaust manifolds approx. $ 350.00
HP and speed gain?

2-New 4 barrel carb and intake manifold
HP and speed gain, what cost?

3-New HP heads
HP and speed gain, what cost?

4-Internal block, cam changes
HP and speed gain, at what cost?

Thanks,

[Forrest]

In addition to more power, the key to making a 16 go fast is to reduce the weight in the stern.

What will these mod's each do for me?
1-New GLM exhaust manifolds approx. $ 350.00
HP and speed gain.

Try to find a pair of aluminum exhaust manifolds. New iron manifolds won't add any HP or speed in a 16.


2-New 4 barrel carb and intake manifold
HP and speed gain, what cost?

Little to nothing without other mods, but the aluminum intake will cut some weight.


3-New HP heads
HP and speed gain, what cost?
4-Internal block, cam changes
HP and speed gain, at what cost?

Heads without other mods? - don't bother spending the money. But good heads along with a good cam and intake? - now you are talking!

BTW, the budget 302 that I built for my 70 mph 1972 16 with Mercruiser Alpha SS, puts out about 290 HP. It consists of a 1991 Ford 302 flat-tappet block and cast crank, stock open-chamber 69cc heads (intake gasket matched), KB116 dome pistons (9.4:1 CR), Crane H-272-2, Edelbrock Performer 289 intake, Holley 450 CFM vacuum secondary carb, half-closed cooling-systen w/160-degree thermostat, Kodiak aluminum exhaust and risers.

[BigGrizzly]

I have clocked Forrest at 69.8 with my GPS, that is why I call it the "Little Green Giant"! Btw he had two people and a cooler and a bunch of stuff on board and was well fueled. If I were to modify my 16 I would do exactly like Forest did, nothing spectacular but will run forever.