PDA

View Full Version : What would you do?



RickSE
12-23-2007, 09:17 PM
I was skiing with my kids yesterday along with my neighbor and his kids. My 7-year old daughter wanted to ski with her 11-year old brother and his friend so I gave her some space while still trying to keep a watchful eye on her. She stopped in the terrain park to watch the boys and I skied ahead about 20' to also stop and watch. I was watching the boys when out of the corner of my eye I see my daughter get clipped by a snow boarder coming off a box and get flipped head over heals. The snow boarder and my daughter went down; he got up said "are you OK, I'm sorry" then took off.

My daughter was not in a good spot but she'd been standing there for at least a few minutes and I don't recall anyone trying to ask her to move. Unfortunately I couldn't really tell that she needed to move from my position.

She seemed OK, stood up and skied down towards me but I could tell she was crying.

Once I determined that she was relatively OK, just shook up, my attention turned towards the snowboarder, who was still in sight.

So now the question,

What would you do?

1) A politically correct solution? :angel:

or

2) An eye for an eye solution? :hangum:

chappy
12-23-2007, 09:36 PM
Depends on the age and demeanor of the boarder. If he's a younger teen, I'd probably tell him to be a little more careful and considerate. If he's an adult, 18 or over, I'd be more upset with the carelessness. Much would depend on his attitude if I questioned him about the incident. If he's apologetic, that's fine. If he's arrogant, "Honey, why don't you go ahead with your friends, Daddy's gotta talk to someone.......":D

Lenny
12-23-2007, 09:57 PM
Number 1 if it was me.

Keep in mind, I come from the Land where no one sues anyone, period. It has to be catastrophic to even think about invoking the process. eg: (impaired driver, property damage that can't be settled humanely etc etc.) To being on a ski hill (here) you have basically forfeited all Liabilities already.

But also, keep in mind, that here, now matter what happens to you, the Province picks up the tab and fixes you for free, no matter what.

...But, if you want it done correctly, (eg: right hand sewn back onto right arm and not the reverse) we pay and go to the United States and get a specialist :D

The fact that he stuck around to see if she was OK, and asked, and undoubtedly she said "Yes", at least shows he was concerned.

P.S. I am a Boarder ;)

Tony
12-23-2007, 10:35 PM
I've skied with my family since they were wee tots, and my daughter and son are both boarders. I agree with Lenny, the fact that the "perp" stopped and asked goes in his favor. Even though it was brief, remember that teens thse days are famous for few words. Suggesting he be more careful, then assessing his response, would be my tactic. My attitude would then correspond with his.

I boarded for several outings, but got impatient because I could not advance to a "downhill" or "slalom" style, which is where the rider has the toes pointed more forward. I never felt comfortable with my shoulders perpendicular to the "fall line".

DonziChick
12-23-2007, 10:55 PM
Honestly, if he'd been uncaring, he never would have stopped in the first place. I would just keep an eye on the situation if it were me. Also, please don't take this the wrong way, but your daughter needs to learn how to stay out the way as well. There are many learners out there who simply can't control where they are going. I've skied since the 6th grade and have been in both positions - that of running into someone and having been run in to.

Tony
12-23-2007, 11:08 PM
On a semi-related note, several years ago I was intriqued by the idea of a teleboard. (http://www.teleboardusa.com/) I went so far as to have them send me one, but I could not locate a pair of telemark boots to rent, so I never got around to trying it, and had to send it back.

I love to watch a good racing snowboarder carve high speed turns, and imagined the teleboard to be a pretty cool innovation. The following quote kind of explains why I was interested in the idea, and is taken from this site. (http://www.telemarktips.com/Teleboard.html)


THE CARVE
Coming off a hard-plate (racing) snowboard set up, I would have never believed anything else could carve a more euphoric turn. However, being locked in place on a snowboard limits the rider’s range of motion fore and aft and makes the transition edge to edge less fluid. Freeing the heels puts the rider’s weight on the toe-box, and the stiffer plastic tele boot gives great lateral rigidity and support when pushing the limit in the carve. With speed, you can go shoulder to the snow on both edges like a slalom water skier.

RickSE
12-24-2007, 12:20 AM
We've had some issues with snowboarders around here lately. One last week came out of the trees, landing on a local gal and broke her arm. We're 2-hours from Phoenix and seem to get a lot of the riff-raff that Phoenix breeds.

Well anyway, after seeing my daughter's face and getting pissed I sealed my fate and choose option 2 :hangum:. Sure my daughter was more than likely in the way at the bottom of the box but the guy should not have even approached the box if someone was in the landing area. I know for a fact that no one was approaching the boxes when she came to a rest in her final position. He looked to be in his mid 20's, 200lbs and was with 2-3 buddies. I'm 39, 150lbs and was alone. His group had continued on but had paused down the hill to re-group. I originally took off towards him to give him a good spray but my anger grew as I approached him and the plan changed. I do believe they saw me coming and took off again down the hill but I knew they couldn't outrun the 198's I had on.

I won't go into details but I paid him back at full speed. My neighbor said I lost points though for loosing a ski but my response was "guess I need to tighten my bindings". After the collision, which happened right under the lift, there were all kinds of foul words and threats thrown down but I stood my ground and explained my reasons. In response he explained his side of the story and expressed that he was sorry for what happened. In the end I also told him that I was sorry for the pummel and explained that he'll know how it feels when he becomes a dad. He actually turned out to be a nice guy, which sucked, it would have been a lot easier to deal with if he had been a thug. We eventually shook hands and went on our way.

My daughter didn't see my actions. When she asked me about what happened I told her I did something because I was mad about what happened to her. I then tried to explain to her the importance of knowing where you stop when you ski and knowing what's above and below you. I guess we all learned a lesson yesterday as well as providing for some good entertainment under the lift.

Just a little lesson to learn from. Thanks for listening and responding.

gold-n-rod
12-24-2007, 07:14 AM
Can't say I agree with your choice, but I'm glad it worked out. The old "eye for an eye...." thing just doesn't seem appropriate here.

Plus, you lucked out. Who's to say he (and his buddies) weren't planning to meet you in the parking lot..... or key your car....... or????

People are too weird today for me to even consider such a confrontation.

Carl C
12-24-2007, 07:51 AM
I think your judgement was clouded by your love and concern for your daughter. Collisions happen all the time on ski slopes. The guy stopped to check on her and apologize and that should have been the end of it. It sounds like you have an attitude toward boarders but I think you should accept them; Just like we have to accept jet skis getting in the way and wake boats making monster waves. 2 cents. Merry Christmas.

gold-n-rod
12-24-2007, 08:55 AM
Live in fear, die in fear Randy...
Can't say that "one size fits all" statement fits me. I've walked away from plenty of "situations" where it seemed like the better choice (for whatever reason). I don't live in fear. Maybe a better word is "cautious."

Too much weird sh it in this world.

justleft
12-24-2007, 11:07 AM
Now you need to talk to your daughter about
situational awareness. Always know what is going
on around you.

It will be a great tool. Especially when she starts
driving a car or boat.

Sure glad everyone is OK.

RickSE
12-24-2007, 11:32 AM
I do have issues and it's because I have a problem with how reckless and careless some of these people ski and board. There is no reason in hell why someone who is standing still in one spot should be run into, especially a child. If they can't control their direction and speed then maybe they should find another sport or go to the bunny hill.

It's this general reckless and careless attitude that bugs me. I'm hoping a lot of what I see here in AZ is localized and doesn't happen everywhere else. We have a small resort here and the resort operations continues to let these people get away with more and more of the crap that they pull; because no one enforces the rules they just continue on.

I was warned that I should watch my back going down the hill by one of the guy’s buddies. I laughed and let them know that I was not backing down; focused my attention on the collision guy, ignoring his buddies who then backed off.

I know I overreacted and I admit that I did but I also agree with Poodle's statement above.

DonziChick
12-24-2007, 12:24 PM
Some people are blatently careless - I will not disagree with that. However, try to remember back to when you were just learning to ski. You don't get any better by not challenging yourself and staying on the bunny hill. I'm not saying you shouldn't care and just go full speed everywhere, but there is a definite learning curve. As said, just try to remember back to when you were learning and maybe have some patience.

I've skied a lot but I recently went from straight skis (that I was very attached to) to parabolic skis and am finding that I'm back in the learning curve again.

Scott Pearson
12-24-2007, 01:27 PM
Ahhhh...I would beat his A** with his own snowboard just for S**T's and giggles.

But that just me.....:eek!:

yeller
12-24-2007, 05:55 PM
Hey Rick, I can't comment directly about what happened because obviously I wasn't there.

I give the guy props for asking if she was ok. I think both people were in the wrong. He should have been a bit more careful, and she shouldn't stop in a danger zone.

As a very aggressive bump skier, if I was to wait for everyone who stopped in front of me to move, I'd never get any runs in. Few people that go on the mogul runs are actually good enough to be there, so when I have to wait and wait and wait for someone that should be on the bunny hill, I eventually just go for it, because by time that person moves, someone else takes their place. Maybe he did the same thing. Got tired of waiting and thought he'd miss her, but then he caught an edge or something and went off course. When I stop on a hill, I always look up to see if I am in someones way and move if I am.

BTW: 198's...way to go. Not many left. 2 more cm's and
you'll hit the 200 club. I retired my 207 sticks a couple years ago and dropped to a pair of 180 shape skies. Didn't really feel any improvement to my skiing and I miss the stares I used to get wearing the long skinny sticks. :)

yeller
12-24-2007, 06:08 PM
And just so you all know: Snowboards are for people who aren't co-ordinated enough to have a seperate plank for each foot. :wink::)




....and a small child in the snow is not always the easiest thing to spot And what do you know about snow....:wink: :biggrin:

RickSE
12-24-2007, 06:27 PM
...BTW: 198's...way to go. Not many left. 2 more cm's and
you'll hit the 200 club. I retired my 207 sticks a couple years ago and dropped to a pair of 180 shape skies. Didn't really feel any improvement to my skiing and I miss the stares I used to get wearing the long skinny sticks. :)

My buddy and I are staying with the "old school" straight skis. He switched from 208 to 180 shaped skis last year and hates the new ones, complains that all they want to do is turn and they chatter when you go straight. He just picked up a nice pair of Rossignol 215 GS skis and I'm working on my dad to get his collection of old straight skis, 205-210's. People kid us about our skis but its fun to be different.

Donziweasel
12-25-2007, 07:52 AM
Living in JH and being an avid skier, I have seen a lot of this stuff. I lost a good friend in a collision 8 years ago. First, skiers and snowboarders are responsible legally for thier actions. All western stated have laws pertaining to this. Also, the back of your lift ticket often has some print that expalins this. People have been convicted of manslaughter over collision injuries and death.

Three years ago, a young man about 17 on a snowboard hit a lady and killed her here. He was convicted this summer and sentenced to jail time.

Western resorts are more liberal and how hard you can ski vs. eastern resorts, but they do have limits. I have been on the recieving end of collisions myself and almost got in a fight one time.

The moral is, YOU are responsible for your actions on the slopes. Be careful in slow areas and make sure you give all others a wide berth. Now I am heading out to go skiing! (Christmas tradition).

Carl C
12-25-2007, 08:55 AM
I got a nasty feedback note for my post here, anonymous of course, for stating my opinion on this thread which is soliciting opinions :confused::confused::confused:. Oh well, tase 'em all and let God sort them out!:doh::tase:

Merry Christmas everyone.

Donziweasel
12-25-2007, 12:20 PM
Wasn't me, but I think Rick was more upset that someone hit his daughter than the fact that it was a boarder. I think he would have been just as pissed if it was a skier. The facts are that he hit a stationary girl and it was his fault. He should have had his ticket ripped or his pass pucnhed(ripping a ticket is a warning, you still keep half, but next time they take it, pass punches are the same, one free punch, pull the pass next time)

There has been a lot of animosity in past years between boarders and skiers. That is changing for two reasons, one, snowboarding is being accepted as mainstream. Mom's, dads, even grandpa's are now boarding. Second, skiing has seen a resurgence amongst the younger crowd. Now they are ripping half pipes and all the stuff that boarders do. I personally do both. I will say that when boarding first showed up, it was mainly embraced by the skid row surfing/skating crowd. A lot of attitude accompanied it. Things are different now. Even Taos this year finally threw in the towel and allowed boarders. The only major western ski resort that doesn't allow them is Alta I believe. They make up 55% of the people on the slopes here in Jackson. BTW, I will always be a skier first, but board from time to time.

Merry Christmas all!

Carl C
12-25-2007, 01:23 PM
It's no big deal, John. We don't really know all of the facts. If the guy was schussing or being careless the ski patrol should have tased his ass :tase:. But DonziChick brought up a good point about beginners. You should have seen my first attempt at skiing down a real hill. I didn't hit anyone but I fell at least 10 times and let out a lot of expletives that kids heard. I gave up skiing. I also don't know where this happened but the resorts around metro Detroit are very crowded sometimes and collisions are common. Serious injuries are not common partly because everyone is bundled up and going the same direction. Last year we had a ski patrol dude on a snowmobile heading to the scene of an accident when he hit a young snowboarder and killed him. Very tragic :(. Sh it happens on ski hills. Doesn't everyone have to sign a waiver?

DonziChick
12-25-2007, 06:12 PM
For what it's worth, I agree with you Carl



You can never be too careful out on the slopes, both while you're moving and while you're standing still

RickSE
12-25-2007, 09:50 PM
Donziweasel, I honestly believe snowboarding is starting to loose some ground to trick skis. Although we still have a lot of boarders here the twin-tip ski guys and gals seem to be increasing in numbers.

Carl, I appreciate any comments you guys & gals have, whether they're in my favor or not. That's why I brought this up.

My co-worker is with Ski-Patrol on our mountain. I'm planning on talking to him next week about some of the crap I've seen lately; maybe he can help make some positive changes.

farmer tx
12-25-2007, 10:24 PM
OMG what is this world coming to! Taos allowing snowboarding! Did not think I would ever see the day. Northern New Mexico boarders are the most inconsiderate people I have ever been around. Four or five of them sitting in the middle of the run BSing right at the top of a chute.I have jumped reclining boarders in blind spots on trails before to avoid shreading them with edges. Ernie Blake is rolling in his grave.


Edit: They will open to snowboarders March the 19th for spring break.

Lenny
12-25-2007, 11:17 PM
And just so you all know: Snowboards are for people who aren't co-ordinated enough to have a seperate plank for each foot. :wink::)
:biggrin:

YOU, ... are SOOOO done... ;)

RickSE
12-27-2007, 12:44 AM
OMG what is this world coming to! Taos allowing snowboarding!

Taos will eat them up. They better line the ambulances up for all the face plants, broken wrists and so on.

yeller
12-27-2007, 12:53 AM
And just so you all know: Snowboards are for people who aren't co-ordinated enough to have a seperate plank for each foot. :wink::)

YOU, ... are SOOOO done... ;)I apologize Lenny. Snowboards have other uses too. They can be made into great benchs or tables for the cabin. :biggrin.:

You should bring your board by. I can run it through the table saw and turn it into a pair of trick skis for ya. :rlol:

Donziweasel
12-27-2007, 08:26 AM
Rick, I agree that skiing is catching back up to snowboarding. I think it started with Johnny Mosley in the Olympics. His first developed "trick" was the Iron Cross with a mute grab. Then in Nagano, he developed the "dinner roll". With a Gold to his name, he showed the younger crowd that skiing could be as cool as boarding.

Now there are as many young freestyle skiing stars as boarders.

The only reason Alta still does not allow boarders is that they don't have to. They pretty much get a full boat of skiiers a day. When they hit a certian level, they don't sell anymore lift tickets.

Jackson Hole is still the best damn mountain in the country. If you have never skiied Jackson, then it should be high on your list of areas to hit. Along with Grand Targhee, you will not find as diverse a mountain and terrian, along with 500 inches of powder a year, anywhere else in the US. Maybe Whistler can compete. Locals are always baised about there mountains, but I have skiied about every mountain in the Rockies, and honestly believe Jackson has the finest skiing I have ever seen. Plus, the Tetons might be the most beautiful moutains on the planet.

yeller
12-27-2007, 12:31 PM
Jackson Hole is still the best damn mountain in the country. If you have never skiied Jackson, then it should be high on your list of areas to hit.I agree. I skied Jackson many years ago. Went with some friends for new years. Unfortunately, it was one of the worst years for snow, but it still had increadible skiing. I couldn't believe how many good skiers there were. Lots and lots of advanced skiing. Not really a beginners mountain, although they do have that other ski hill just down the road which is more suited to beginners/intermediates.

The only bad thing I had to say when I came back was because the mountain had so much advanced skiing, it attracted a lot of males. The town was a little sparse on females. Not the best place for a bunch of single guys to spend new years. :wink:

Donziweasel
12-27-2007, 05:18 PM
Things have changed a lot since you were here last. More beginner terrian, more women! When I moved here it was 8 to 1 men to women in the winter. Now it is 50 50. We also redesigned the lower part of the mountain to incorporate more beginner terrain. If anyone is ever interested in coming out, I can arrange free lift tickets, accomodations, and transportation. Been a hell of a year so far. I think it has snowed every day in December.

Tony
01-01-2008, 02:56 PM
I switched out of my straight sticks several years ago. Got some K2 X-Series 185 shaped skis, and absolutely love them. Effortless turners, and zero chatter. I like high speed cruising on groomed or semi-groomed terrain (sounds like my boating preference!), so I made sure that these would NOT chatter...and they don't.

Too many people go too short on a shaped ski, which turn on a dime (not good in my book) and chatter like crazy. The quality of the ski, and a longer parabolic ski, insures stability at speed. These are likely called GS skis, although I am not current on the terminology.

This thread has a variety of side topics going on!

:beer:

The Hedgehog
01-03-2008, 08:52 AM
My buddy and I are staying with the "old school" straight skis. He switched from 208 to 180 shaped skis last year and hates the new ones, complains that all they want to do is turn and they chatter when you go straight. He just picked up a nice pair of Rossignol 215 GS skis and I'm working on my dad to get his collection of old straight skis, 205-210's. People kid us about our skis but its fun to be different.

I stayed with the straight skis for quite some time. Too long actually. I remember the chatter issue at very high speeds and overshooting my turns. If I was constantly ripping GS turns at very high speeds I would never have made the change, however while skiing some spring crud at Squaw Valley I gave the shaped skiis one more chance. On variable conditions the difference was mind boggling. I called the ski shop halfway down the mountain and told them to have a set of Dynastar 175 Intuitives waiting on me at the end of the day.

I could hold my own on the old straight skiis but have become a much better skiier on the shaped skis. I find myself enjoying much more of the mountain than I did before. There is a good reason why the pros are using them. After a week I have looked back only once. I grabbed my long skis one evening for fast conditions. After a couple of runs I retired them forever.

Now when I go to the runs where the "important people" ski, I look a lot more like I belong there. I am not talking about the run of the mill black diamonds either. I think it is cool to watch somebody dog a run with long straight skis but I would not recommend discounting the new technology.

As for the boarder situation, I don't know enough about the situation to comment. If it was a serious terrain park I would be hesitant to take a 7 year old on it unless she was dang good.