22 Classic question

[kramermic]

I'm new here. Lots of great info so far. I'm considering a 22 classic. Most of the boats I've had in the past 15 years have been fishing boats (26 Calcutta right now). I want a boat the runs 90+ and could be somewhat reliable. Is it reasonable to think I could get that our of a 22 classic? What type of power does that boat need to reach that mark? Would this be more easily achieved in an 18 classic?

thanks for any advise.

[zelatore]

Welcome to the board.

90+ in a 22 Classic? Well, there are people on the board who's boats run those numbers, but not that many.

For reference, a stock 502 Mag or 496 Mag will run low to mid 70's depending on the driver.

I'll leave it to the guys with mountain motors to tell you what it takes to post that kind of speed, but I can say you'll need a lot of power and, honestly, if speed is all you're after there are easier ways to go that fast.

If, like me, you're more concerned with the history, pedigree, and 'classic' look of a Donzi classic, then you've come to the right place for help. Like I said, there's a ton of knowledge on this board.

Enjoy your search!

[Carl C]

I have an '05 22 that runs 75 with 496 HO. I think 90+ would take 700 hp at least. I would go with the 22 but there are some 18s running insanely fast. How much $ do you have??? I'd love to see someone put a 700 SCI in a 22.:nilly: Mr. X is putting an ilmor in one and it might hit 90 :crossfing: : Of course you'd also need a good drive. Welcome to the Registry and I hope you go for it. :)

[Dr. Dan]

I'm new here. Lots of great info so far. I'm considering a 22 classic. Most of the boats I've had in the past 15 years have been fishing boats (26 Calcutta right now). I want a boat the runs 90+ and could be somewhat reliable. Is it reasonable to think I could get that our of a 22 classic? What type of power does that boat need to reach that mark? Would this be more easily achieved in an 18 classic?
thanks for any advise.

:spongebob: Well...I will let someone else Pop the Popcorn..but here goes my Schtick!

Assuming you were serious about most of your boats being Fishing Boats, I guess I would inquire as to what type... like a Bass Boat... or a Trawler or a Skiff with an outboard...? Because if you have only driven real fish boats... and your experience is in fact limited to that type of boat... well I would caution you.

If however ... you are a Stud, and fish with an 80 mph Bass Boat and or have had some Offshore Experience, with some form of Deep Vee.. then... there is hope.

Although there are about dozen boats on this board that can run regularly over 78 mph at any given time... assuming conditions allow it, that does not change the fact that the hulls were not really designed to go that speed. Most owners have full hydraulic steering, years of seat time and are truly seasoned performance boaters... in this case with their Donzi's.

I guess I would have to ask first ...what is magical about the 90 mph speed requirement? And if its gotta be a Donzi Classic or could it be a different Vee Hull, cuz 90 is hauling some groceries... and outside of the speed blasts... even the boats on this board that are capable of running those speeds... they only ran it for a short period of time... it is not a speed to cruise at in a 22 or an 18... not in real world conditions. Ask me how I know this.:eek!:

With the exception of a current 22 under development, there are 2 boats I know of that do 90 + or are capable of it. One is an X-18 that is one of if not the fastest Donzi, and has run 120+mph with an Arneson Drive and some major ponies... but it is currently on hiatus.

The other is Catch 22's Procharged 22 which has clicked off 92 mph on occassion. I will let Jim chip in on his experience...

Good Luck In Your Pursuit... Be Safe

Doc of Slow Boats :smash:

[BigGrizzly]

I am one of the fast guys! I have 690+ HP full hydraulic steering, worked on the handling of the boat, and have more than 30 years of seat time. I don't claim to be the fastest but I do know what I am doing when it comes to speed and handling. This I will tell you, It will cost many$$$$ and a lot of seat time. I will also tell you the 80 mph drivers on this board are good drivers, not run of the mill boaters. As much as I love Donzis, I will tell you " Get another boat"! The 18 or the 22 classic is out of your league. I have one friend who went 104 in a 22 classic. It took 825 HP. He said he would never do it again!!!! BTW he was a offshore racer now retired. GET yourself a ZR38 with big power. Now I am going to get my pop corn.

[olredalert]

------I agree with Randy and others! It takes an immense amount of time, money, and dedication to run a 90mph DONZI classic. There is no one out there that just drops a 22 in the water and takes a 90mph cruise with his buddies. It doesnt happen. The hi-speed 18 mentioned would be a case in point. The owner/builder always took his time to assess conditions and was always extremely careful. He had a passenger or two now and then but never more than one at a time and he never went flat out (in the 120mph range) with someone in the passenger seat to my knowledge. Unless I miss my guess, I think you would be very satisfied with a 75 to 80 ride. I have gone faster but would find that kind of speed in a 22 Classic enough..........Bill S

[Cuda]

Catch 22 has the only 22 that I know of that can fairly reliably click off 90 mph runs. A couple years ago, at the Home Town Rally, the factory driver in a 38 told Jim he was nuts. He said driving a boat that's designed to run 100, isn't that hard, but that he wouldn't want to run a 22 at 90+:eek!:. (Btw, I'm in his corner :) )

[kramermic]

Thanks for the info guys. I've never messed around with any Donzi boats and don't really know anybody that has much experience with them. I knew I was probably going to get flamed for this post being a newbie. The same thing happens on the Porsche forums when people ask similar questions. I'm not going to claim to be a professional boat racer. I've had fast boats. My last 21' flats boat ran 85 on the gps, 36 Spectre that ran 130+, among others. While I do appreciate Donzi enthusiasts looking out for safety, I'm more so looking to get an idea if a 22 classic is a boat that can be reliably fast. I'm not, however, looking to own a boat like a Donzi that would get outrun by one of my past fishing boats. It sounds like I would need to be around 800 hp and the proper set up to get where I would need to be. I know there are other options out there, but the Donzi 18 and 22 Classic appeal to me the same way a Porsche 356 does. My search will continue.

thanks,

[zelatore]

I don't think anybody intended this to be a flame fest; they're just trying to point out that the classic hulls are perhaps not the best candidate for maximum speed. As was mentioned earlier, a ZX or ZR would be a better option if you really want triple digits.

I think your 356 analogy is pretty good. I often liken my 22 to a 65 Mustang when trying to describe it to people who don't know what it's all about. Just as there are plenty of modern cars that are faster/easier to drive than a vintage Mustang (or Porsche), there are plenty of modern hulls that are faster/easier than a Classic. But by the same token, they don't have the history, style, or 'cool' factor that the Classics do.

If you race (or just drive) a 356, you know there's more to the experience than just outright speed. You might want to bum a ride with somebody near you who runs a Classic and see what it's about. Trust me, at 70+, they are a handful, so if you're looking for the experience and want to really 'drive' the boat you might find it would still work for you. Of course, if you boat with a bunch of guys running 100 mph boats, I can see where you would want to stay with the pack. In that case, check out the ZR or other more contemporary designs.

Still, just as pulling up to a PCA event in a nicely done 356 will turn more heads than driving up in a newer 911, pulling up to the dock in a nice Classic will get you plenty of respect even when there are bigger/faster boats around. It’s just such an iconic boat.

[Carl C]

Here is a link to a cool thread that shows what folks are getting out of 23' max IO V hulls. Mine is #12 0n the list (I'm CC). It also contains a too cool video of the X-18 running 120+. http://www.speedwake.com/upload/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27967

[BUIZILLA]

6speedonline.com regular huh ?? or Rennlist ?

a 16 is like a 356 (my dad had a '63 Super 90)

an 18 is like a 82-87 911 Carrera

an X18 with a TRS is like a 930

a Minx 20 is like a 90's Cabrio

a good 22 is like a 95-98 993-2, or -4 if you have Latham steering :wink:

A healthy Criterion is like a '93 RSA or an '89 Speedster

a small block 22 is like a 964, except the '94 Turbo model, unless the small block 22 has a Whipple

a morphed and healthy 22 is like a 993 Turbo...

hope that helps you...

JH

if your an air cooled purist, that's the pecking order

after the 99 water cooled stuff you lost me...

[Marlin275]

I'm not, however, looking to own a boat like a Donzi that would get outrun by one of my past fishing boats.

You can run a Donzi faster in the kind of water
you won't see ANY fishing boats run in !

[The Hedgehog]

90 in a Classic is blistering. Definately doable but a handful. The "Experts" of Powerboat magazine say that the 22 is overpowered with a 496 yet many on this board have one. Like one of your Porsche is a driver's car it is a drivers boat. I really like the analogy of the 65 Mustang. I built up a 66 Mustang and did it Shelby style. Yes it would run but it was a handfull. Would I do it again, hell yes! Back in the late 80's it would run with pretty much all the hot new cars. My only serious challenge was the Grand National. It took a good bit more to drive my car though. Too much gas and it would break traction. Heat up the brakes too many times and look out. Drive it into a turn wrong and you could go from understeer to serious oversteer at the flick of the throttle. Yes it would go but it would really draw a crowd.

I have a X-18 with 350 hp. It will break 70 and is much more of a handful than a 700 hp 27ZX that will run 85.

I would like to see some more high speed classics done. It looks like one will be out pretty soon.

I would heed the advise of the guys on the site that are pulling some big numbers out of theirs. Do it in stages and get some seat time.

These boats are the coolest and they are big fun.

[VetteLT193]

I like Zelatore's post, and I'll take it one more step.

A 1967 Corvette feels fast.
A 2007 Corvette is fast.

The question is, are you concerned with top speed or a fun drive? For me, I'd take a '67 'vette any day. Or, even an '87 Vette because they feel faster.

A Donzi is the same way... a total blast to drive at even 50+. So, if you love to drive boats it's a great choice... but if you like to BS around the dock about running 90+, but something different.:wink:

[DonziFreak]

I'd take a '67 'vette any day. Or, even an '87 Vette because they feel faster.
A Donzi is the same way... a total blast to drive at even 50+. So, if you love to drive boats it's a great choice...


I agree with him 100%
We race boats in our family, the slowest one doing 70 MPH, but in all honesty, I can have just as much fun, if not more in our Donzi doing 55 than in our race boat doing 70 or 110...

But I can understand if the speed bug bites :biggrin:

[kramermic]

The speed bug bit me a long time ago, but my love for cars / boats that are classics (or at least I perceive them to be) plays just as important of a role. Currently I am racing an 86 Factory Turbo body 911. It's currently being rebuilt. I did not wreck it... We're working on getting it down to about 1800 lbs which with the current 3.4 (just under 300 whp) should just about run with some newer factory Porsche Cup cars. My favorite car to drive is a high hp (600+) 930. Recreating that feeling on the water would be the goal.

I'm going to continue doing some research. I have other projects that need to be completed before I can move to this.

Marlin, you're right. I wouldn't run 85 in 21' flats boat in 4' chop. From what it sounds like, most people wouldn't run that fast in a 22 Classic in 4' chop either. It is, however, a huge rush to run 85 in about 7 - 8 inches of water.

Buizilla, thanks for the analogies. See my comment above. 1999 up does nothing for me either. Not sure I will ever own a water cooled Carrera. I do have a 968 that I use as my daily go getter, though.

[DonziFreak]

Recreating that feeling on the water would be the goal.

That is the amazing thing about the Donzi Classic series. Yes, it is fun to go fast but, in a Classic, you really don't need to do 85 to experience something magical that so few other boats can re-create. It doesn't matter how fast you're going in a Classic, its all about how much your enjoying it. And for me, as I said before, I get just as much of a rush doing 55 in our Donzi as I do racing a field of boats at 70 or 110.

But it really all comes down to one thing....

"Diffrent strokes for diffrent folks!"

[roadtrip se]

Okay, I'll chime in.

I have had the 100+ offshore behemoths. Kept selling them, because they really weren't that much fun. Next chapter.

We now have two upper-end, in their performance category, Classics.

The Scorpion 18 is an absolute riot, and believe me, sitting in the passenger seat and witnessing what this thing can do in capable hands, is a sheer joy and a bit terrifying at the same time.

The 22 has been in its current fighting trim for five or six years. It is still in great shape and I have had an absolute ball tinkering with it. It is time for a little refreshing, but I am not sure what I want to do with it next, so it will probably wait.

Both of these boats have taken a bunch of fine tuning to get where they are. That is part of what makes them so appealing to me. They are a great hobby, but jumping into one and being the king of the hill probably isn't what you will experience from the first day.

[Lenny]

18 is an absolute riot

Got that right :yes:

The MOST fun boat I have ever owned. Hands down. I will never NOT own one.

[kramermic]

another thought....

Have any of you heard of people running a diesel in a classic? This trend is growing. Spectre has a 36 CC that runs twin Yanmar 315's and cruises at around 53 and tops out somewhere around 65. I also saw a Fountain Lightning on ebay today that was running Yanmars. I don't recall what was in it, but the speeds were similar to those above in a 42' boat that appeared to be completely loaded.

[DonziFreak]

don't know if thats been attempted.....that would be intresting to see

[BUIZILLA]

Mastry Marine has one with a 315 Yanmar