Shift your assets?

[Tony]

Surfers, it might be a wise time to get out of the water and watch the action from the beach for a while...so to speak.

Since 2002 the US dollar has lost 36% of its value. Twice previously, from '69-'73 and from '85-'87, U.S. stocks sailed as the dollar weakened..."only to sink like a stone after the buck bottomed out." (Money magazine, December, p. 67)
Many lost big money in '99-'01 because they (and I...) were asleep at the wheel. Avoiding severe market downturns can be accomplished by examining history and culling opinions. Some call it "market trending", and several indicators point to now being a good time to protect your nest egg with an asset shift.

We've had a very nice run, take your profits and protect them. Remember the basic tenet, sell high and buy low.

Of course...you'd have to be pretty desperate to take financial advice from me!


:nilly: :nilly:

[Lenny]

My gal does this for a living. It is really getting hit hard. The Can $ investment Community far less so than the Amer $ one... BUT,... we have not seen "par" since 1969-71 or so. We have (at points) far surpassed those numbers recently.

Let's put it this way. She wakes up at about 2am, lately, and often, and worries about the "Financial Portfolio" perceptions from her large clientelle that she instructs and directs and supports in strong investment. ( 140+ M) All will want answers. ( the answers are not yet required as it has yet to play out), ... BUT, she can no longer sleep... I wake up at 5:45 am to see her watching TV... on the couch as she has been since 2-3 am... :(

I hope it gets better soon, or the boats get cheaper...

[vonkamp]

I think we (the economy) could be in for a bumpy road ahead. Right now the biggest favor you can do yourself is GET OUT OF DEBT. You cant have a good escape plan if you owe tons of $$$. That's my .02 FWIW. :boggled:

[mikev]

I think we (the economy) could be in for a bumpy road ahead. Right now the biggest favor you can do yourself is GET OUT OF DEBT. You cant have a good escape plan if you owe tons of $$$. That's my .02 FWIW. :boggled: I agree 100% the wife and I are taking this approch to getting out of debit I really love this guy. Dave Ramsey (http://www.daveramsey.com/)

[smoothie]

Moved everything to money market two weeks ago....will wait till "after the election" and see what happens.

[smoothie]

Dow closed at -369....ouch! :hangum:

[Tony]

smoothie, I shifted from 90% equity to 90% money market in mid-November. I only did my funds, and let my wife's ride, because she doesn't like me "fussing" with her money! :bonk:

In another month or two I may start slowly buying, using recommendations in the financial magazines for equities that are severely undervalued. In my oft-clouded mind I'm figuring the "bottom" to last another 8-12 months.

But...like I said in my first post...I pity the fool that takes any financial advise from me! :propeller:

[hardcrab]

[QUOTE
But...like I said in my first post...I pity the fool that takes any financial advise from me! :propeller:[/QUOTE]
Don't sell yourself short.

[Tony]

Unfortunately I learned the hard way...losing a sh*tload of money in the '00-'01 market crash.
After that I severed ties with my "financial consultant", switched most funds to Fidelity, and made it a point to learn as much as I can. Fidelity is user friendly, with a lot of research and analysis tools, hundreds of NTF's, and excellent phone support.

Nowadays, and this is probably the most important thing, I do it myself. A diversified portfolio, dollar-cost averaging, and automatic re-balancing are basic tenets I try to follow. I've been heavy in international for several years and that has been good to me. I've even dabbled in some stocks, and have had better then average success. A while ago Money magazine discussed several companies who could thrive on our renewed interest in going "green', and I have been tickled pink with my (their) choice of ITRI, up 61% since I bought it. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while!




:beer:

[Ranman]

Tony,

Based solely on this thread I chose to contact my financial advisor in December 07 to ask his opinion. I ended up shifting my retirement savings into a new program that offers a guaranteed 6% return with a market reset feature for when the market exceeds 6%. The program is through Mass Mutual and is called Evolution. I left Jennifer's 401k savings alone (similar to your situation). While we have lost significant value since December due to the current market, I was able to protect "mine" with guaranteed growth. This move alone has mitigated a LARGE portion of what we would have lost had I not read this and took action, leaving us both exposed.

Part of me wishes I moved Jennifer's portion to money market for the next year and I was close to doing so a few weeks ago, but it seems the ship has sailed and we're going to ride it out. I'm not sure I'm really ready to try to "time the market" anyway. Regardless, of the loss, I am glad we were able to diversify more and minimize the damage.

The beer is on me the next time we meet up. :biggrin.:

[smoothie]

Tony,I know what ya mean...I took a bad hit in 1989 if I remember right and decided then that I needed to learn alittle about the stock market,played the 2001 tumble like a fiddle,and so far this year Im over 1000 points ahead of the game and hoping it goes down more,I guess you could say Im playing it "short".:wink: and still making 3% ..JMHO.

[smoothie]

Under 12000 now and news isnt good...still playing it short....

[BUIZILLA]

yesterday I woke up thinking...., self, move some cabbage around, things ain't looking rosy.... so, I moved a 6 digit chunk around for *security* in case we need to ride things out, and also paid off everything today that's not tax deductible/offset... I think we're on hard for another solid year of surprises... if we get a DEM President, and DEM Congress, and DEM Senate control in Nov, 1932 will seem like a cake walk for independent businesses...

[MOP]

Managed funds are still a very good bet, my kid put me in a Smith Barney fund that has nearly double my bucks in thirteen years.

[smoothie]

Phil, I use Smith Barney what fund are you in ???

[smoothie]

A good read on your 401 K.
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/us-workers-must-unite-protect/story.aspx?guid=%7B0CB37D9E%2D0CAE%2D42E2%2D8089%2 DBBD3E55A25E5%7D&siteid=yhoof

[gold-n-rod]

Looking for an update. One of my accounts, a 403(b) has dropped in value from $171K to $164.5 so far in '08. It's 75% stocks and $25% bonds. Only the bonds are holding their ground.

Is it wise to reallocate all to bonds until the market settles out? I know I'd be getting out of the market at a low point..... but who can predict the future?
I'd prefer NOT to piss it all away in the market.

I know enough about this business to hold in a thimble. Any input?

PS: Retirement is less than 10 years away, unless everything goes to sh!t.

[Ghost]

This is not much help I know, but when you are thinking about the numbers, consider each dollar you are counting is itself worth about 60% of what it was a few years back, so the hit has been far worse than what it looks like on paper. I say this not to be mean, but because I know a lot of people are overlooking that in their thinking.

Like I said, not a lot of help except in the sense of "measure it and it will get better." (Wow, there's a d--- joke in that quote that I never noticed before...)

[osur866]

Looking for an update. One of my accounts, a 403(b) has dropped in value from $171K to $164.5 so far in '08. It's 75% stocks and $25% bonds. Only the bonds are holding their ground.

Is it wise to reallocate all to bonds until the market settles out? I know I'd be getting out of the market at a low point..... but who can predict the future?
I'd prefer NOT to piss it all away in the market.

I know enough about this business to hold in a thimble. Any input?

PS: Retirement is less than 10 years away, unless everything goes to sh!t.
Thats less than 4% decline I'd say your doing pretty good I'll trade you returns over that period of time!! :rolleyes: There has been 2-3% market swings daily for the last couple of months. Steve

[gold-n-rod]

So what's with bonds? Good, bad, otherwise?

[harbormaster]

I pillaged my smith Barney IRA and paid off all my credit card debt. The only thing I pay on is utilities, insurance, Mortgage and 1 car payment.

It was stupid to pay 28% on credit cards while earning 14% on my IRA.

[Tony]

4% is NUTHIN' for an '08 ytd loss. My wife's 403(b)7 is down 11% for the same period, but she is about 85/15 equities/bonds. I've been tickled pink with my decision to bail last November, and since about last April I've been gradually re-entering the fray.

Take this with the appropriate grain of salt, but I'd say stay put. We've got to be either at the bottom or dang near it. Although it is easier said than done, the age old adage says "buy low, sell high".

:beer:

[f_inscreenname]

I don’t know about you all but this works for me and lets me sleep at night.
I entered the investment world on March 6th 2000. Receiving an inheritance that came in stocks and bonds I decided to open a Schwab account. That way I wouldn’t be so tempted to start writing checks and piss it away with a cash account. The first few days it was great. Making almost 2 grand a day I thought I just hit the money train. For those that don’t remember on March 9 the Nasdaq hit 5000. I then learned what pain was over the next couple years chasing the next big thing while everything went down. Sold off the good boring stuff and kept the bad. In other words I was buying stocks of yesterday and not the stocks of tomorrow.
Then one day I just had enough and sold off about everything I had that was in the red and built up the few stocks that I still had left over that paid good dividends. I even bought back a few that I stupidly sold. Swallowed a little pride that day but as the market still went down I stopped the bleeding and leveled off. As that boring, slow way started to pay off it took forever but even today with the huge sell off I’m still up 3% overall. I know that’s nothing and probably doesn’t even cover inflation but after having a portfolio full of e-stamp and 90 dollar tech stocks worth 6, I’m happy.
Now I have a bunch of dividend stocks (70%), a couple bonds (15%) and 15% in just crazy stuff like SIRI, RAD and FRE. Even though I learned my lesson with the dot bombs I still like to play but my core holdings almost always stay the same.
PS - FYI, I know it my sound stupid but WWE (the wrestling people) are paying the biggest dividend yield of them all and have never missed. Go figure. I have none yet but have been looking hard. http://www.dividend.com/dividend-stocks/best-dividend-stocks.php

[zelatore]

PS - FYI, I know it my sound stupid but WWE (the wrestling people) are paying the biggest dividend yield of them all and have never missed. Go figure. I have none yet but have been looking hard. http://www.dividend.com/dividend-stocks/best-dividend-stocks.php

That's just hilarious. Never underestimate bad taste!

[txtaz]

For us, Our stocks and mutuals (Fildelity) are staying in tact. I've already lost enough on paper, if I sell it's real. I choose to get a job and leave everything as they are and wait for a comeback.

For anyone intersted in investing, Fidelity is one of the best brokerage houses I've seen. They provide all the tools to research funds and stocks plus managers. Most of my stuff is no load however a lot of them are closed also (meaning no new investors). In the past a good ROI was 15-16% yearly. Some have hit 30%. I'm sorry to say those were the good ol' days.

Da Taz<---I need a job...Anyone need a Nuclear Engineer or Computer Scientist? I'll have my PhD soon.

[Lenny]

Da Taz<---I need a job...

Ever considered being a Gin tester? That worked out great the last time. http://www.donzi.net/forums/images/smilies/king.gif

[txtaz]

Ever considered being a Gin tester? That worked out great the last time. http://www.donzi.net/forums/images/smilies/king.gif

Uhmmm, That was a $400 bottle of scotch. :worthy:

I am currently staying away from the stuff. I like it toooooooo much.:nilly:

Da Taz<---Sobriety is not bad, but it is pretty hard to get a buzz off V8.

[Tony]

For anyone intersted in investing, Fidelity is one of the best brokerage houses I've seen. They provide all the tools to research funds and stocks plus managers.

I use Fidelity, also. and am very happy with them.

:beer:

[smoothie]

Below 9000....still on the sideline.

[chappy]

Below 9000....still on the sideline.

I was just thinking of this thread as we go through another day with a freefall.........:garfield:

[Tony]

I'm pretty relieved to be on the sidelines, since this thread began, but my wife's 403(b) is hurtin' for certain.
I've been re-entering the fray slowly, but am giving serious thought to jumping in with both feet since the bottom must be near! :eek:


:beer:

[txtaz]

but am giving serious thought to jumping in with both feet since the bottom must be near! :eek:
:beer:

I'm sorry but no. The bottom (I hope) is around 7,000. If we hit it in the next week, start hording cash or move into a money market fund. We cannot take 7 - 8 % losses per day for very long. Remember that 7% loss today is worth more than an 8% loss yesterday.

Da Taz

[BUIZILLA]

Stock market 101


Once upon a time in a village, a man appeared and announced to the villagers that he would buy monkeys for $10 each. The villagers, seeing that there were many monkeys around, went out to the forest and started catching them. The man bought thousands at $10 and as supply started to diminish, the villagers stopped their efforts. So the man announced that he would now up the price and buy at $20. This renewed the efforts of the villagers and they started catching monkeys again. Soon the supply diminished even further so the offer increased to $25 each and the supply of monkeys became so scarce that it was an effort to even see a monkey, let alone catch it! The man now announced that he would buy monkeys at $50! However, since he had to go to the city on some business, his assistant would now buy on his behalf. In the man's absence, the assistant told the villagers. "Look at all these monkeys in the big cage that the man has collected. I will sell them to you at $35 and when the man returns from the city, you can sell them back to him for $50 each." So villagers rounded up all their savings, and bought all the monkeys from the assistant. They then sat back and waited for the man to return from the city. However, they never saw the man, nor his assistant, ever again... only monkeys everywhere! And so my friends, you now have a better understanding of how the stock market works.

[smoothie]

I'm sorry but no. The bottom (I hope) is around 7,000. If we hit it in the next week, start hording cash or move into a money market fund. We cannot take 7 - 8 % losses per day for very long. Remember that 7% loss today is worth more than an 8% loss yesterday.
Da Taz

Why move into money market fund at the bottom ??? I moved into a money market fund at the top and make 3% as the stock market has been going down...will get into an aggressive fund for the pop up when the market hits a flat spot.

[txtaz]

Why move into money market fund at the bottom ??? I moved into a money market fund at the top and make 3% as the stock market has been going down...will get into an aggressive fund for the pop up when the market hits a flat spot.

My money market fund works the same as a cash deposit. I get interest and write checks, wire transfers and online bill pay (no charge). I did check and you need $10,000 balance for a no fee service.

I did NOT mean to imply sell any stocks or funds now. HEAR ME!!!! If you don't have to sell DON'T.......IF YOU HAVE CASH....wait

Can you hear me now???

Da Taz<---I'll let you know when I buy.

[smoothie]

Asian market taking another bad hit tonite...down 11% so far...sounds good to me,right Tony?:yes:

[chappy]

If we didn't hit bottom last week, I'm really confused. 11% gains across the board today, wow.

[Tony]

A 938 point DOW gain today, shattering the previous one day record of 499!
People figured late last week was the bottom, and jumped back in big time today. Herd mentality at its best!

Anybody buy Morgan Stanley last week? If so they jumped today 85%!

:beer:

[Ghost]

Buiz, the monkey story is superb! I'd never heard that one but I don't think I'll ever forget it.

[Cuda]

My niece works at Raymond James in Clearwater. She had to work overtime all last week, getting checks out to people who were scared they were going to lose everything. They haven't figure out you have neither gained, nor lost a damn thing, until you sell.

They say that the diffence of playing the stock market, and going to Vegas is that at Vegas, somebody won.

[The Hedgehog]

So what's with bonds? Good, bad, otherwise?

It is called the inverse price/yield relationship. I would stay away from corps unless you are buried. Bonds are ok for a while but not too long.

There is some great value in the market right now. The sheep follow the crowds and get slaughtered.

Stay in for the long haul, buy good stuff and you will be ok.

[txtaz]

Stay in for the long haul, buy good stuff and you will be ok.

Good advice. So the market made it's biggest one day gain, it also had it's biggest one week loss. We are still of 3000 pts from our high.

Swings like this are not a good indicator of stability. IMO, wait and you will see another big sell off as people realize they are being taken again. $700 billion does not even come close to covering the $70 trillion that is lost in the swapping of bad debts packaged as all kinds of securities.

A band aid does not work well on that triple bypass incision.

Da Taz

[Tidbart]

One word......Buy:yes:

Opportunities are abound.

Bob

[chappy]

Good advice. So the market made it's biggest one day gain, it also had it's biggest one week loss. We are still of 3000 pts from our high.

Swings like this are not a good indicator of stability. IMO, wait and you will see another big sell off as people realize they are being taken again. $700 billion does not even come close to covering the $70 trillion that is lost in the swapping of bad debts packaged as all kinds of securities.

A band aid does not work well on that triple bypass incision.

Da Taz

Dow down 700+ so far today, pretty impressive Taz, dead on prediction.

[Cuda]

I pillaged my smith Barney IRA and paid off all my credit card debt. The only thing I pay on is utilities, insurance, Mortgage and 1 car payment.

It was stupid to pay 28% on credit cards while earning 14% on my IRA.
That's 28% tax free also.

[Cuda]

I read the first day when it took that huge dip, that there was $1.1 TRILLION dollars lost that day. I must have missed the new flash where they shot 1. TRILLION into outerspace. That leaves only two possiblities:
1 The money is still here or,
2 The money never existed
Any financial genuises want to explain the fallacy of that logic?
Before you take a shot at explaining it, I did take Logic in college, and it was far and away the toughest class I ever took. I took it because I figured it was an easy math credit. We started out with 32 people in that class, and only 8 of us took the final exam. The rest dropped the course. On that final exam, I scored 200 out of 200. There are precisely seven fallacies used in logic, so feel free to point out which fallacy I'm guilty of.

[BUIZILLA]

your guilty of the first fallacy in that the news you read was accurate...

which led to the misnomer of 1.1 trillion in paper losses

the next fallacy is which amount over and above the original investment basis is what was used the determine the 1.1 T amount boasted..

somebody else can tackle the next 5.. :outtahere:

[The Hedgehog]

Good advice. So the market made it's biggest one day gain, it also had it's biggest one week loss. We are still of 3000 pts from our high.
Swings like this are not a good indicator of stability. IMO, wait and you will see another big sell off as people realize they are being taken again. $700 billion does not even come close to covering the $70 trillion that is lost in the swapping of bad debts packaged as all kinds of securities.
A band aid does not work well on that triple bypass incision.
Da Taz

I am not sure that I was embarking on a discussion of current fundamentals but more making a point of a long term phylosphy.

I do agree that the band aid will not automatically infuse market stability. We will get that 70 trillion back and then some. And yes, there will be more pain first.

[txtaz]

Cuda, Uhmmm they added a few rules since you were in school. There are now 12.

Chain Rule
Conjunctive Addition
Contrapositive
DeMorgan's Law
Disjunctive Addition
Disjunctive Inference
Disjunctive Infer. (XOR)
Double Negation
Modus Ponens
Modus Tollens
Mutual Exclusion
Simplification

I will go with mutual exclusion to explain. Since your XOR statement that the money was never there OR is still here, I can mutually exclude that subset with another.

The other subset:
Since our currency is not founded on a standard, it's worth is based on relative value. It's the relative value that you hear on the news. It turns into real value when a sale is made. Look at market volume (up/down) to determine how many people are making a gain or loss real.

Also you are guilty of simplification. (No offense intended)

Da Taz<---Waiting for the market to hit 7,000...

P.S. I don't know who said to buy, BUT DON'T we are in the forth quarter and retail sales are already low. It will only get worse as Christmas gets closer.

[Ghost]

For starters, at the risk of muddying the waters, I thought Cuda was talking about fallacies, where much of Taz's list appears more like rules or theorems (as opposed to fallacies like the converse fallacy, inverse fallacy, etc.).

I'll take a stab at the rest now.

I concur that the fallacy is accepting the incorrect premise that the 1.1 trillion dollars existed in the first place. The 1.1 trillion dollars were not actual dollars, but estimated value of shares in companies. As Taz so rightly described, those perceived values are not realized until a transaction occurs.

If I have a nice painting of some waterlilies in my house, worth about $50, and one day I discover it is a Monet, am I really a millionaire? No. Not until I sell it. But then, when I try to sell it, we find out it is a fake, and only worth about $2000, as it is a pretty good fake. Did I make $999,950 and then lose $998,000? No, nothing was ever realized. Once I sold it, the money would be realized, a well-chosen term.

Two pertinent applications to our current plight:

1. The Monet example is very much like our stock market and investment banking world. The problem is that the perceived value of lots of things was drivnen way too high, like the Monet that people thought was real but was not. Now, in my example, the net increase and drop was not a big deal. (I went up about a mil on paper, then back down about a mil on paper, not a big net change either way by the end.) But suppose I went to a bank and borrowed half a million, and used the Monet as collateral to get the loan. Then when I couldn't make payments, the bank repossessed the Monet, only to find out it was a fake. That is, in my estimation, what happened with the housing market. Things were overvalued, and people borrowed against that overvalue, and then the bank becomes insolvent. Now real people with their money in that bank can't get their real money to buy real food to put in their real mouths.

In the 1.1 trillion dollar example, as you so insightfully noted, the sum total of world wealth did not go down. Nothing was jettisoned into space. Rather, a lot of people who owned overvalued things were simply exposed as such. This was bad for them, but good for everyone else, who might otherwise have made the mistake of parting with too much of their wealth to purchase those things.

2. Similarly, if you create paper dollars, the total worth of the world does not go up, but the value of a paper dollar DOES go down. If a company is made up of 100,000 shares, and then it just starts selling more and more shares in itself, that is FRAUD. When the Federal Reserve does this same thing by printing more dollars, it is also FRAUD. But no one prosecutes them for it.

I think this is actually their long term strategy. If dollar is sufficiently devalued, I could pay off the national debt by pawning my Seiko. This is why I have bought specific gold funds which I believe actually hold the gold in a vault (if my understanding is correct--some do not, I think some actually do). I want something of tangible value, not paper.

If there is a run on the banks, as we have seen in places like Germany and many others in turmoil through history, when the hyper inflation starts, it moves very quickly. With modern electronic trading and systems, I suspect it will happen even more quickly than it has before.

And suddenly the wheelbarrow of dollars will buy but a loaf of bread. I am willing to take the speculative risk in gold (maybe it dips 30% or more for a while, but I don't intend to realize much of this loss, or gain, in the immediate term. But if the $hit hits the fan, I think the value of the dollar will plummet so fast, it will happen faster than you can sell off one thing and buy a hard commodity.
By the way, buying gold or other hard commodities is one other way we can all fight the bailout even if it is enacted. They can play their games, but if we all avoid further malinvestment, we can hold onto real value, and avoid being the greater fools in their greater-fool-theory approach to fixing the economy. In other words, in the game of economic musical chairs they are playing, boycott the game. Buying something of real value that won't evaporate like paper money (especially when they are just printing more and more) is like sitting down in a chair and never getting up. Now everyone else is playing with one chair fewer than before.

But beware, I have heard multiple predictions that eventually the government will ban ownership of gold because they need to further their Ponzi scheme by forcing you back into their game of musical chairs. This is the one I mentioned in another post, that is like burning books, banning free speech and assembly, and seizure of firearms. If this happens, it's a REALLY bad sign.

DISCLAIMER: I am not a financial advisor. Take anything I say with a grain of salt. Do lots of research. I say these things like I know what I am talking about. I think I do, but I am trying to pool our collective wisdom here, impart what I can and learn what I can. You have to make your own decisions. (Isn't it funny that my disclaimer is much like that of an actual financial advisor, essentially saying my advice is worthless and not guaranteed, except I am not taking any money for it?)

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Stock market 101


Once upon a time in a village, a man appeared and announced to the villagers that he would buy monkeys for $10 each. The villagers, seeing that there were many monkeys around, went out to the forest and started catching them. The man bought thousands at $10 and as supply started to diminish, the villagers stopped their efforts. So the man announced that he would now up the price and buy at $20. This renewed the efforts of the villagers and they started catching monkeys again. Soon the supply diminished even further so the offer increased to $25 each and the supply of monkeys became so scarce that it was an effort to even see a monkey, let alone catch it! The man now announced that he would buy monkeys at $50! However, since he had to go to the city on some business, his assistant would now buy on his behalf. In the man's absence, the assistant told the villagers. "Look at all these monkeys in the big cage that the man has collected. I will sell them to you at $35 and when the man returns from the city, you can sell them back to him for $50 each." So villagers rounded up all their savings, and bought all the monkeys from the assistant. They then sat back and waited for the man to return from the city. However, they never saw the man, nor his assistant, ever again... only monkeys everywhere! And so my friends, you now have a better understanding of how the stock market works.


That is one of the funnier analogies I have heard recently - thanks for the laugh. Bill

[smoothie]

Dow down 700+ so far today, pretty impressive Taz, dead on prediction.
Could be more red days on the way....Hedge Funds are turning in their chips and getting the books straight, some 8000 Hedge Funds out there so buyer beware.
Position: "outside looking in"
Good read:http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/article/96864/Hedge-Fund-Carnage%3A-Invisible-Catalyst-Causing-Big-Market-Moves

[Tidbart]

P.S. I don't know who said to buy, BUT DON'T we are in the forth quarter and retail sales are already low. It will only get worse as Christmas gets closer.

That was me. The market is low and could/may/probably will go lower. Regardless, it is still time to buy. There are some real bargains out there. Example, I purchased and airline stock last week for $5.60, today it hit $8.60+. Sometimes you hit it right.

People have been doing a whole lot of selling lately out of panic. This has been driving things down big time. Let the suckers sell. They will most likely lose in the long run. If they show some patience and hold or even think of buying, they could lower their basis or even set themselves up nicely for when the market does recover, and it will recover.
This may be now or it may be later as you stated. Point being, buy low, either now or later. Oh yah, and dollar cost average.

I know I am simplifying things and that investing is a complicated thing and, I am not a financial guru, but the basics of trading still apply in this market as much as in a bull market. That is why I said to buy.:yes:

Disclaimer: Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah,
Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah,
Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah.:biggrin.:

[gold-n-rod]

But beware, I have heard multiple predictions that eventually the government will ban ownership of gold because they need to further their Ponzi scheme by forcing you back into their game of musical chairs.

I always thought that'd be a great name for a boat...... Donzi Scheme!!!! :wink:

[smoothie]

The Dow Jones industrial average futures fell 550 points, triggering a halt in selling of stock future contracts....could be a long day.