22 Classic Hydraulic Steering Options?

[Air 22]

A question for those who HAVE hydraulic steering...

I'm considering adding it to my 22 Classic as I'm in the 70's now & accelerating:smash:..and want the added safety. I experienced 1st hand the drive walking back and forth this weekend at 74 gps and had to really counter it (prob operator error...lol:smash:) either way SAFETY FIRST..My gimbal and Bravo outdrive are new..

Is there one brand that is recommended for the 22? IMOCO, Latham etc??

I'm thinking of a FULL System Dual RAM.. Helm to Stern not the assisted version.

Thanks in advance:wink::yes:

[drew0982]

What about SeaStar? They're pretty popular down here in the Bahamas for outboards and I'd assume there's some product they make for I/O's...

http://ww2.seastarsteering.com/

[VetteLT193]

My brother has Latham on his 22, full hydraulic single ram.
I know a lot of people have dual ram, but I can't see the benefit of it on a single engine boat. Especially a Classic.
In the engine pic attached you can see the fluid reservoir mounted next to the hatch latch base. (blue top), as well as the new cap (blue as well) for the power steering pump.

[CHACHI]

I have a brand new Zeiger dual ram system still in boxes from July. No time to install yet. From what i have been told, it's the system donzi installs on the 22 and the 27.
Ken

[Air 22]

My brother has Latham on his 22, full hydraulic single ram.
I know a lot of people have dual ram, but I can't see the benefit of it on a single engine boat. Especially a Classic.
In the engine pic attached you can see the fluid reservoir mounted next to the hatch latch base. (blue top), as well as the new cap (blue as well) for the power steering pump.


Thanks for the pic's:yes: I'm going with dual ram for the finished look imo:smash::bonk:..I have also seen several 22's with the single ram..I have no experience 1 vs 2 rams and fuctionality...thanks for the input..:wink:

[Air 22]

I have a brand new Zeiger dual ram system still in boxes from July. No time to install yet. From what i have been told, it's the system donzi installs on the 22 and the 27.
Ken

Ken..Yes u would be right..my inside mole confirms this..:yes:

[BERTRAM BOY]

Dwight, this is what you need....with ITS.

[VetteLT193]

Thanks for the pic's:yes: I'm going with dual ram for the finished look imo:smash::bonk:..I have also seen several 22's with the single ram..I have no experience 1 vs 2 rams and fuctionality...thanks for the input..:wink:


I can't disagree with that. Single ram does look lop-sided:bonk:

If you want a really clean look you could try that new Zeiger internal system. it's full hydraulic, but mounted inside the engine compartment. I have been trying to get more info on it (pricing, how well it works, etc.) with zero luck so far.

[Air 22]

Dwight, this is what you need....with ITS.
Cliff..u want me to remain married right?:smash::nilly:
If you wanna tell Santa to put one of those under my tree I'll be happy to let u run it...lol:yes::yes:

[RedDog]

The Mayfair "Space Saver" kits shown here (http://www.hardin-marine.com/SearchResult~CategoryID~74.aspx)look ideal for installation on a 22 Classic. Seems the shorter rams would work better.

http://www.hardin-marine.com/SearchResult~CategoryID~74.aspx

[BigGrizzly]

The main advantage with dual rams is that it supports the gimble housing. The next is steering is equal left and right. According the gimble is a real weak point with high horse power applications. This was told to me by a merc engineer. As for who is best that is kind of subjective. I have IMCO on my Criterion, others have Lathem and mayfair. Most use the same helm so they are pretty close. I think they all seam good if properly installed.

[Pismo]

If you have those silly dual ram trim tabs then space is an issue. Zeiger makes a good setup for this limited space. Shelby 22 with Zeiger.

[Air 22]

Pismo... I have the single Ram Tabs so space shouldn't be an issue....Thanks for the pic:wink:

[Air 22]

I can't disagree with that. Single ram does look lop-sided:bonk:
If you want a really clean look you could try that new Zeiger internal system. it's full hydraulic, but mounted inside the engine compartment. I have been trying to get more info on it (pricing, how well it works, etc.) with zero luck so far.

Vette..here u go...:wink:


http://www.diamondperformanceparts.com/product.php?productid=16699&cat=261&page=1

This is what im thinking of...:smash:

[Air 22]

Now there's a dangerous question.... :eek!::eek!:

Your subscription to "US" Magaizine has been renewed...:doh::nilly:

[VetteLT193]

Vette..here u go...:wink:
http://www.diamondperformanceparts.com/product.php?productid=16699&cat=261&page=1
This is what im thinking of...:smash:


I've looked at that kit (and even more so the single ram kit) from Zeiger. The price on that site is the lowest I have found so far.

[The Hedgehog]

I like the Mayfair system. It has good bang for the buck. I have heard the same as what Griz said about the helm. I am getting one of those for my 26ZX project. I used a single ram Mayfair on the X-18 and an very happy with the fit and finish. Eddie Young did the install. He works on $1MM+ boats and he gave it the thumbs up. I really like the stainless steel end cap. I hear that they are doing away with those for the wing plate.

I am happy with the single ram system on the 18 but will probably add a ram later for asthetic purposes later. I am not terribly concerned about the strength with the small block bravo combo. I will be doing the twin ram on the 26ZX.

[LKSD]

I like the Imco & Latham set ups personally, but Zeiger also has some nice stuff..:) jamie / Lakeside

.

[roadtrip se]

and the blue motor.

Gero's and Farmer Tex's Marine Machine stuff looks pretty impressive too.

[yeller]

Although not entirely, I'd shop mainly by price. Hydraulics is old, old technology. It's hard to make a bad system. I bought a WPM because of the price and I liked the way the hydraulic lines went through the ram mounts. It's over $1k more now than when I purchased so I doubt I'd get it again. I don't think anyone can match the price of an XS system.

[blueliner]

i put on a full dual hydraulic IMCO system and love it!!! it is like driving a cadillac. but like yeller said, if you buy a good system, its going to be good. i guess its just how much you are willing to pay for the name that is on it.

[Mr X]

and the blue motor.
Gero's and Farmer Tex's Marine Machine stuff looks pretty impressive too.
Yea, what he said. Except the silver engines are GROWING on me lately..:)

[catch 22]

Dwight, I can't say enough about the Marine Machine By Mayfair. It's been on the boat 4yrs now and never an issue. Here's a pic.

[Air 22]

Yea, what he said. Except the silver engines are GROWING on me lately..:)
Blue 525 vs. Silver 7-10....hmmmmmm...either way externally I will be ready when the steering is complete....decsions ..decisions:bonk:
Road Trip...your offer still stand?:smash::nilly::)

[Air 22]

Dwight, I can't say enough about the Marine Machine By Mayfair. It's been on the boat 4yrs now and never an issue. Here's a pic.


Jim..Thanks for the input...and PIC...what did your system run $$ wise? Any recommendations as to where to purchase etc?

[roadtrip se]

Blue 525 vs. Silver 7-10....hmmmmmm...either way externally I will be ready when the steering is complete....decsions ..decisions:bonk:
Road Trip...your offer still stand?:smash::nilly::)

Yes, Dwight, for now. But only because the "freshening" has not occurred yet. Umm, might want to hurry...

[Air 22]

The WPM full system has Stainless braided lines..very nice...:wink:

http://www.cpperformance.com/detail.aspx?ID=1748

[zimm17]

Definitly go with XS performance. Heavier dutier than the others, stainless braided lines standard, fitting go through the same plate as the ram bracket- no extra holes, comes with reserviour, includes free 1" thick mounting plates to reinforce transom. Also includes a free plate to cover up the huge hole from the teleflex steering if you ask for it. Not bad for $2800 total.
Instructions are good, comes with template and measuring directions.
He's a one man shop so order a month or two ahead of time before you install it. Also inventory everything before you start- some guys reported a few missing parts here and there, but he will send them out pretty quick as no charge. I didn't get the reserviour the first time around, but he sent it out.
Here's the thread on my install. Again, I highly recommend. Also with the full system I have no difficulty steering at idle like some other systems. The hydraulic hose ends go on fairly easily with a pair of wrenches. Use a good hacksaw or angle grinder to cut the metal reinforced hoses.
http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=48658&highlight=xs+steering

[Air 22]

Definitly go with XS performance. Heavier dutier than the others, stainless braided lines standard, fitting go through the same plate as the ram bracket- no extra holes, comes with reserviour, includes free 1" thick mounting plates to reinforce transom. Also includes a free plate to cover up the huge hole from the teleflex steering if you ask for it. Not bad for $2800 total.
Instructions are good, comes with template and measuring directions.
He's a one man shop so order a month or two ahead of time before you install it. Also inventory everything before you start- some guys reported a few missing parts here and there, but he will send them out pretty quick as no charge. I didn't get the reserviour the first time around, but he sent it out.
Here's the thread on my install. Again, I highly recommend. Also with the full system I have no difficulty steering at idle like some other systems. The hydraulic hose ends go on fairly easily with a pair of wrenches. Use a good hacksaw or angle grinder to cut the metal reinforced hoses.
http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=48658&highlight=xs+steering
Zimm...the XS is a very clean looking system:wink: do you have contact info for ordering this same system? Will I be able to keep my Drive Shower with this system??

Thanks Dwight:)

[zimm17]

Here ya go! Let him know you heard about him from the Donzi.net forums if you buy a system.
http://www.xsperformancemarine.biz/index.html

Oh yeah, give him the year of your boat so you get the right hydraulic fluid filter. I had one with the wrong threads to fit my steering hose. Again, he quickly sent out the correct one for me.

[Air 22]

Here ya go! Let him know you heard about him from the Donzi.net forums if you buy a system.
http://www.xsperformancemarine.biz/index.html
Oh yeah, give him the year of your boat so you get the right hydraulic fluid filter. I had one with the wrong threads to fit my steering hose. Again, he quickly sent out the correct one for me.

Zimm Thanks...will this system work with my Drive Shower?

[yeller]

Definitly go with XS performance. Heavier dutier than the others, stainless braided lines standard, fitting go through the same plate as the ram bracket- no extra holes, comes with reserviour, includes free 1" thick mounting plates to reinforce transom. Also includes a free plate to cover up the huge hole from the teleflex steering if you ask for it. Not bad for $2800 total.You will not find anything priced even close to that. That's less than I paid for my WPM 1.5yrs ago. I'd go XS.

[zimm17]

Zimm Thanks...will this system work with my Drive Shower?

What kind of drive shower? I had a SIMREK drive shower- it no longer fits. The XS doesn't affect the top cap, so a cap type shower should still work.

[Air 22]

What kind of drive shower? I had a SIMREK drive shower- it no longer fits. The XS doesn't affect the top cap, so a cap type shower should still work.

Zimm..I have a Cap Style Drive Shower..Hardin Marine so should be ok then...Sounds like a straight fwd project:smash:....are the instructions detailed?:bonk: finally..what was your time frame for the install after having all the parts in hand etc?? Thanks...:wink::)

[zimm17]

I did the install over a two week period. If you have EVERYTHING you can do it all in a weekend. First remove the old steering ram, cable, and helm.

I did the rams and brackets next- measure several times- lay some blue masking tape down so you can draw pencil for the holes you need to make. Then you need 3M 5200 sealant for the mounts. You'll need some help so you can tighten up the bolts from inside while the bracket is held from the outside. The outdrive bracket went together pretty easily- then the rams are installed. Figure half a day for that.

Next, mount the helm and steering wheel.

The hardest part is running and setting up the hoses. Triple check which hoses go to what fittings- it's a good brain twister to figure out which side of the rams the "right" and "left" hose systems go to. Basically a high pressure line from the pump goes to the helm. Then the helm has a "right" and "left" hose which goes to the rams. Finally a low pressure return line from the helm to the filter to the cooler and back to the pump.

When you break the kit out of the box, measure the parts of the fitting that go through the hull (I used wrenches to see what size I needed) for the drill bits. West marine sells the 5200.

Between the board and Brian at XS, it's a very do-able install. Nothing by itself is extra difficult, but it's still an involved, complicated install.

Don't forget lots of heavy duty zip ties (I used 75 lb strength ones) to mount the hoses to the factory harness. I took out the speakers to gain access to more of the gunwhale for more zip ties.

Let us know if you get the kit.

[Air 22]

Zimm..Thanks for the info...I'm going to seriously look it over and work out a good time to attack this. A Donzi Brother has offered to assist me one weekend:smash::smash: so I will be in touch...:wink:

Again thanks for your help...I'm looking fwd to this install and the results:wink::wink:

[zimm17]

I'm still trying to get past the "xs is heavier dutier then the others" comment..
Realizing I'm old and my mind is feeble, but I am pretty damn sure I did not see ONE boat with xs @ the worlds out of 70+ boats and over 200 poker runners...
How about heavier dutier than the models I looked at. Marine machine has some skimpy looking rams compared to XS. Also how many brands out there have cast brackets and parts? XS doesn't have any cast parts.
Also no plastic in the rams eyelets- they are made of some bronze-looking metal.
Latham might be better, but are they worth double to triple the cost? That's up the buyer. I'm a big fan of quality stuff for less money and that's why I'm giving a glowing review of the XS stuff.
I'm not an industry expert, mearly a garage/shade tree mechanic with a government salary budget.

Now if I was a race team, I would NOT use XS steering. Why? He's a one man shop with a long lead time to get a kit. If you break a part during or before a race, good luck getting parts right away. That's probably why race boats use stuff with more factory support behind them.

I bet you didn't see any 22 Donzi's running at the worlds either...

[Air 22]

I'm still trying to get past the "xs is heavier dutier then the others" comment..
Realizing I'm old and my mind is feeble, but I am pretty damn sure I did not see ONE boat with xs @ the worlds out of 70+ boats and over 200 poker runners...
XSPM Hydraulic Steering
Systems Boast The Following:
XSPM's steering systems are constructed from ocean tough,
316 Stainless Steel, the most corrosive resistant Stainless Steel available.
XSPM's wingplates are 316 Stainless Steel and we use
316 Stainless Steel for our transom brackets. Both are a beefy 3/8" thick.
(These Parts Are Not Cast Like Some Of Our Competitors.)
XSPM uses only rugged 316 Stainless Steel cylinders, caps and rams.
(These Parts Are Not Cast Like Some Of Our Competitors.)
XSPM runs their braided Stainless Steel lines through our
316 Stainless Steel transom brackets to give you a
well rigged and clean looking set up.
XSPM 316 Stainless Steel wingplates use 6
mounting bolts to attach to the drive. (Not 4)
XSPM uses brass bushings for the clevis
in place of the industry's baseline of plastic.
XSPM also uses 6,000 psi Parker Seals.
XSPM's external hydraulic lines are braided
Stainless Steel lines for aesthetics.
XSPM's interior hydraulic lines are
black high pressure hoses.
XSPM's Stainless Steel cylinders are assembled
with the SS hydraulic lines intact from
the factory.

After the install..I'm going to add a 3foot Fountain Beak(making it 25ft min length for qualification) and a few other mod's and enter the Worlds with the 1st XS Hyd System...in a ......
Red ...DonFountainzi Classic FlyBoy Limited Special Edition Extreme Offshore Series Hull....:hyper::hyper::hyper::beer::beer:

[catch 22]

How about heavier dutier than the models I looked at. Marine machine has some skimpy looking rams compared to XS. Also how many brands out there have cast brackets and parts? XS doesn't have any cast parts.
Also no plastic in the rams eyelets- they are made of some bronze-looking metal.
Latham might be better, but are they worth double to triple the cost? That's up the buyer. I'm a big fan of quality stuff for less money and that's why I'm giving a glowing review of the XS stuff.
I'm not an industry expert, mearly a garage/shade tree mechanic with a government salary budget.
Now if I was a race team, I would NOT use XS steering. Why? He's a one man shop with a long lead time to get a kit. If you break a part during or before a race, good luck getting parts right away. That's probably why race boats use stuff with more factory support behind them.
I bet you didn't see any 22 Donzi's running at the worlds either...
ROTFLMAO :nilly: SKIMPY LOOKING RAMS? (NOW THAT'S A NEW ONE). AND THE FACTORY SUPPORT, (OR THE LACK OF) IF I NEED TO GET A PART (AND THE RIGHT PART) I WOULD LIKE TO GET IT SOONER THAN LATER. DWIGHT I KNOW I HAVE A (K MART BLUE LIGHT SPECIAL) SETUP BUT JUST REMEMBER ,YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. IT'S GOING TO BE ON YOUR BOAT FOR A LONG TIME. YOU HAVE ONE OF THE NICEST 22'S OUT THERE DON'T START CUTTING CORNERS NOW. JIM

[zimm17]

Well I'm not going to argue with you guys. Bottom line, I like my XS and I recommend it for the fact it's $2800 for the whole kit.

[Air 22]

:wink:
ROTFLMAO :nilly: SKIMPY LOOKING RAMS? (NOW THAT'S A NEW ONE). AND THE FACTORY SUPPORT, (OR THE LACK OF) IF I NEED TO GET A PART (AND THE RIGHT PART) I WOULD LIKE TO GET IT SOONER THAN LATER. DWIGHT I KNOW I HAVE A (K MART BLUE LIGHT SPECIAL) SETUP BUT JUST REMEMBER ,YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. IT'S GOING TO BE ON YOUR BOAT FOR A LONG TIME. YOU HAVE ONE OF THE NICEST 22'S OUT THERE DON'T START CUTTING CORNERS NOW. JIM
Jim...I have to agree with u..The Marine Machine Rams are not skimmpy looking...in fact they all look to be the same size from pictures etc(from an eagle eye pilots perspective...lol)...I'm not sure what brand to go with yet...I do the like Stainless Braided hoses and fewer transom holes that XS and Zeigler offer...for a clean look...again imo only...A full hyd sys is a must...:yes:

This thread has taken a possible negative tone in some cases etc... the intent was for information from 22 owners and their experience with whatever hyd systems they have and their findings only...:smash: We can leave the testosterone and mine's bigger/better than your's coments for out on the water when u bring what u brung meetings occur....PLEASE PLEASE keep it fun.. thats what we alll want...HAPPY HOLIDAYS to all and thanks again to all who share their findings..:beer::beer::wink:

[catch 22]

The stainless braided hoses are fine and the fewer holes in the transom are good to, but to say that the xs is HEAVER DUTY then all the others is a pretty BIG statement. I'm not saying that the xs system is SKIMPY, all i'm saying is that I have had my MARINE MACHINE on for 4 years without any issue what so ever. Just look around and see whats out there. And for the price that I payed for mine was $3,300.

[catch 22]

Here ya go! Let him know you heard about him from the Donzi.net forums if you buy a system.
http://www.xsperformancemarine.biz/index.html
Oh yeah, give him the year of your boat so you get the right hydraulic fluid filter. I had one with the wrong threads to fit my steering hose. Again, he quickly sent out the correct one for me.
And if you go to xs website and go to the links(These are some of the best hi performance boating forums)they must have forgot DONZI.NET.:shocking:

[yeller]

Well the XS may or may not be the strongest. I don't know. The only one I've looked at up close is mine. :) Any dual ram system is going have more than enough strength on a 22.
Catch, $3300 is a good price for your system, but you can't get it at that anymore. The WPM cost me $3400 1.5yrs ago and at the time the Marine machine was about $500 more. Don't know what it is now. Last time I looked at the WPM website mine was about $4k. So for about $3k, I think the XS is a hell of a deal.....and like I said before, we're talking hydraulics here. Pretty basic and old technology.

[Air 22]

Well the XS may or may not be the strongest. I don't know. The only one I've looked at up close is mine. :) Any dual ram system is going have more than enough strength on a 22.
Catch, $3300 is a good price for your system, but you can't get it at that anymore. The WPM cost me $3400 1.5yrs ago and at the time the Marine machine was about $500 more. Don't know what it is now. Last time I looked at the WPM website mine was about $4k. So for about $3k, I think the XS is a hell of a deal.....and like I said before, we're talking hydraulics here. Pretty basic and old technology.

On CP Performance they are 3999.00 for the WPM Full Sys..on Sale...a savings of $500.00

Thanks for the posts everyone...:yes::wink:

[BUIZILLA]

:boggled: they are ALL overpriced... :nilly:

[Pismo]

:boggled: they are ALL overpriced... :nilly:
I agree, hydraulic cylinders are old technology. If you price them for farming equipment or the like they are under $100 each, so are the valves. Big mark ups in the boating world of course. Stainless adds a lot too.

[BigGrizzly]

Quite a while ago there was a post on OSO on building them for less than 500. However I would not do it because externally the rams look like crap. the helms are almosr all the same, except for Teleflex. Most use Char-lyn pumps. As for who is the strongest, all are overbuilt. You will find the IMCO nas 1" shafts and mine are all stainless construction. Heavier than the aluminum, but pretty. I went with non stainless braid, because it stays cleaner, and doesn't get mossy when left in the water. I went with IMCO because we deal with them and the had my wing plate for my TRS in stock. The kit came with everything but the caulking for the hull.

[p729lws]

What's the school yard game where every piles on one kid, lol? Dogpile or something? :smash: All in good fun I guess.

I also have the IMCO system and consider it "heavier dutier" (I'm a licensed engineer so I'm allowed to use these technical terms). If you order one you'll be suprised how heavy the box is when it shows up. The dealer I bought it from added stainless braided lines for not much coin.

I was planning on buying the XS system after reading all the good reviews about it but the rep refused to place the order w/ the manufacturer because the lead time was soooooo far out, lol. You have to like a sales guy w/ some integrity.
Dan

[p729lws]

Is it winter yet??? :smash:

Yep! I think I'll go boat:cool:

Dan

[BaldEagle]

I put a Latham dual ram setup on my AE 22 496HO and the steering is as solid as a rock. I run in the mid 70s. (now). Talk to MadPoodle and he can set you up with the correct parts depending upon your trim tabs. PM with any questions.

[p729lws]

I put a Latham dual ram setup on my AE 22 496HO and the steering is as solid as a rock. I run in the mid 70s. (now). Talk to MadPoodle and he can set you up with the correct parts depending upon your trim tabs. PM with any questions.


But do you consider it heavier dutier??:nilly::doh::)

Dan

[zimm17]

Now I wish I never mentioned the "heavy dutier" part. It seems there's doubt about the strength of these systems. Like the above post said, they are ALL overbuilt, especially for a our little Donzi's.

The important part is that you are running external dual ram steering when running over 70mph for safety. The forums have been saying that for years and it's true. Any brand kit will get the job done. One point is that the prices vary widely, but the features not as much.

I recommend a full system with hyd helm.

I realize most of us have just winterized our boats so I can understand the snippy posts, but come on- :)

[catch 22]

Now I wish I never mentioned the "heavy dutier" part.
I realize most of us have just winterized our boats so I can understand the snippy posts, but come on- :)
Just went out in the boat yesterday (winterized, I just run some warm ocean water through it) :wink:. No SNIPPY post here.:nilly:

[ITTLFLI]

My XS system has performed flawless for the 4 years I have run it...and run it hard too!! Here is a case where I have top notch engineering on my steering but guess what..... the budget tabs broke! I bet a few of us with high dollar (not necessarily better quality) steering are still running bennett or bennett style tabs? There is always a weak link!!! You just don't want it in your steering system!

This is a pic of mine after the Cumberland poker run.....notice the port tab?
Sorry its not shinny but I spent 4 days straight on the lake:wink:

NOTE...XS has changed the brackets so the hoses do not need seperate holes.

[undertaker]

How are Jill & the Baby doing.........:)


Undertaker



PS Not sorry for the hijack, I thought the thread needed it:wink::smash::wink::smash:

[ITTLFLI]

How are Jill & the Baby doing.........:)
Undertaker
PS Not sorry for the hijack, I thought the thread needed it:wink::smash::wink::smash:


:)

They are good! He got his forst cold last week and spread it to all of us!!:wink:

[undertaker]

Great to hear everyone is doing good.....see ya at AOTH:yes:

[Mr X]

real interesting :wink:

[catch 22]

That's what happens when your boat sounds like this when you first fire it up. Can't wait till AOTH. For those who don't know this boat, this is one BAD 22. Video not that great, but you'll get the idea. Glad to hear you and the family are doing well. Talk about bringing your A-GAME. :nilly::nilly:

[catch 22]

The wife already said she's staying on the dock.:nilly::nilly::nilly::wink:

[BUIZILLA]

you guys are gonna cost me some money... :nilly::bonk::boggled::toiletpap:doh:

[roadtrip se]

you guys are gonna cost me some money... :nilly::bonk::boggled::toiletpap:doh:

I think I'll be riding with Jill at AOTH next spring.

[farmer tx]

Somebody is on the verge of losing their mancard.
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TODD

[BUIZILLA]

You do realize we are talking about a guy who travels with his kitty cat in his lap right?? :tongue::tongue::boggled: ANYBODY THAT RIDES AROUND WITH A PU$$Y IN HIS LAP HAS MORE OF A MAN CARD THAN ANYONE ELSE HERE... :yes:

absolutely anonymous

[roadtrip se]

it's TWO cats. How many of you can say that? Thanks Buiz...

As for the man card, I'll be the one laughing when Jill blows by a bunch of you card carriers in a cloud of spray at AOTH next spring.

Your buddy, Spanky...

[BigGrizzly]

Jill's boat is going to get really Hat ATOH next year. Now What boat shall I bring, or ride with Jill too?

[undertaker]

ANYBODY THAT RIDES AROUND WITH A PU$$Y IN HIS LAP HAS MORE OF A MAN CARD THAN ANYONE ELSE HERE... :yes:
absolutely anonymous


I agree.....:cool::cool:


AOTH is goin to be fun.....looks like I need to give Jaime a call to upgrade my STOCK 2005 22 classic with that wimpy 496 HO motor.......:yes::yes::wink: He has my credit card number on file....just don't tell my wife:wink::wink:


Undertaker:pimp:

[ITTLFLI]

The wife already said she's staying on the dock.:nilly::nilly::nilly::wink:

:eek!: YEAH....Jill was pregnant last year so I didn't have a rev limiter with me all summer! Hence the busted tab. Check this out....(pics)

Sounds like AOTH will be a blast this year!:smash::smash:

[gcarter]

Hence the busted tab. Check this out....(pics)

This is why I'm adding two layers of reinforcement to my transom......I don't think the "planes" would bend.......what's next in line?
The transom!