OK, you Toyota haters...... 'splain this.....

[gold-n-rod]

I've got the place to myself tonite and I can do whatever I damn well please. So..... I'm chilling and reading the regional Auto-Truck Swapper/Trader/Seller.

In the pickup section, there must be 300-400 late-model Fords, GMs and Dodges for sale. Most are trucks that had a $35-40K sticker (when new) that are for sale a year or two later for $20K (or less).

But, here's my puzzler...... there's only 4 Toyotas for sale in the whole magazine. Is this reflective of the total number of new sales? Is it reflective of the fact that most Toy owners are in it for the long haul? Or that their satisfaction is higher across the years of ownership and they don't feel compelled to trade early?

Or what?

BTW, my rag serves Ohio, Illinois, Michigan, Indiana, Wisconsin and Tennesee...... truck country, it seems to me.

Your thoughts, please.

[superhatz]

I'm stayin' out of this one........:)

[gcarter]

As I've already mentioned, I've recently bought two used Tundras. It was my experience on eBay that at any given time there were only about about three pages of them in tthe entire system. Then if you were looking for a particular model like I was, there were seldom any available.
Autotraderonline.com was similar, there were more available, but many were either new from dealers, or more than 150K miles.

[justleft]

Back when I was getting into off roading the 4 Runner had just come out.
For years I waited until the used ones got cheap. They never did !

[need for speed]

I have been working with a lot of boat transport companies in the past few weeks doing delivers I have yet to see one show up with a Jap!..... so I have no clue, :wink: when was the last time you past a Jap towing 3 boats at once … and a rack over the cab for # 3!! :confused:

[zelatore]

Before I moved to CA, I lived in Princeton, IN.

Know what they build there? Tundras.

Given that, you'd think there might be a preponderance of Toyota trucks on the road. But there's not. While I don't have a number, I'd guess the domestics still outsell Toyota 20 to 1 in light duty trucks.

That's certainly not a hard number to believe. First, it's 1 against 3. (4 if you count the GM twins as separate) Second, even in 1/2 tons, the Tundra doesn't sell as well as any single one of the domestics. Third, the domestics all offer heavier versions in their truck lines - 1/2, 3/4, and 1 ton.

Next, the domestics offer more options to meet more needs. Long or short bed? Regular, extended, or crew cab? V6, V8, or Diesel? Single or dual rear wheel? I believe Toyota has one wheelbase, one motor, and (maybe) two cab options.

Plus, you're looking at used trucks in the mid-west. Even Toyota has admitted they expect to make their best sales on the coasts (think blue states) where people are more open to imports. Any of the domestics sell better in the mid west than on the coasts - I don't even know where a Buick dealer is in the bay area, but I bet I could still find one in Evansville, IN.

I won't argue that domestic trucks take a beating on the resale market, with a few exceptions (diesels for example). Given the relatively few Toyota sales to begin with, it's only natural that they would hold a stronger resale - the people who do want them have a smaller pool to pick from.

Lastly, I believe the Toyotas are more expensive than the domestics to start with - although I haven't researched this at all. It's somewhat hard to do. I'm sure the MSRPs are probably similar, but anybody who's ever tried to buy any domestic vehicle knows they don't really sell anywhere close to MSRP. My current Dodge had a window sticker something like $14K higher than what I paid. And I suspect the dealer never had any intention of getting the original asking price, it just gives them something to come down from so they can pat themselves on the back and tell you how much of a deal your getting. Of course, this opens a whole other discussion about dealer price strategies I'd rather not get into in this thread.

I don't want to be seen as a Toyota Hater specifically, although I have no love for their products. My experience with Toyota (limited) has been that they are excellent vehicles for people who want driving appliances - if all you care about is getting from point a to point b with minimal involvement, they will serve you well. The Camery is the ultimate expression of that company ethos. I'd rather not support a company with those values, even when one of their products might fit into a nitch I'm interested in. It would have to be so vastly superior to the other options so as to make it impossible to refuse. So far, they haven't achieved that end, and it's unlikely they will given their demonstrated desire to stay on the mild side of the spectrum. The closest they've come is the FJ, but it doesn't offer enough towing power to replace my truck and I sure don't want to drive a SUV as a replacement for my car; and the Lexus IS series - again, interesting but not up to the leaders in it's class, much less preferable to them.

[gold-n-rod]

Interesting comments, Don.

I'm not sure I'm buying the market penetration argument for why so few used Toys on the market. I sure see them on the road and certainly in a much smaller ratio to the domestics, but they are out there.

I guess Toyota owners are in their trucks for the long haul. We can afford to..... they sure don't cost much to maintain over 100-200K miles.

My comments are primarily about the Tacomas and old style Tundras. I have no clues about the new Tundras and I rarely see one on the road. <shrug>

[DonziJon]

I just bought my second Tacoma last February. I bought the first one ('95) in January '96 and put 141,000 miles on it over 12 years. Never had any issues. I paid $16.9K for it new (V6 4x4 Extra cab) and sold it for 5K last spring.

When the NEW 381HP Tundra came out I went around to a couple of dealers to check it out.

Questions I asked the dealer: Will Dual Wheels be available? NO. Can you put a Fifth wheel hitch in the bed? NO. "The bed and chassis are not strong enough..... Toyota does not recommend it."

As someone mentioned above, Toyota is a nice driver . Even with my biased opinion, the Toyota is not a real work truck. It's a NICE light truck for occassional light hauling. My current Tacoma has a TSB out to stiffen the tailgate up After you bend it in the middle by putting too much weight on the tailgate. Taco owners beware. John

[gold-n-rod]

When the NEW 381HP Tundra came out I went around to a couple of dealers to check it out.
Questions I asked the dealer: Will Dual Wheels be available? NO. Can you put a Fifth wheel hitch in the bed? NO. "The bed and chassis are not strong enough..... Toyota does not recommend it."

I'm embarrased to link this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zShwG9l1F0Q

Damn, that Tundra bed can do the fandango!!!!!!!!!!!!! :bonk:

[zelatore]

A similar thread could be started about the Honda Ridgeline. In theory, it's as much truck as a lot of people would need, and stylistically it's very similar to the Avalanche. But I've hardly heard a good word about the Honda, at least not from truck people, and I rarely see them on the streets even here in CA where Honda is golden. I DO see tons of Avalanches though. The Chevy must outsell the Honda 10 to 1 or more judging from my informal highway census. (even if I don't see the usefulness myself, they certainly seem to sell well around here).

I wonder how the resale is on the Ridgeline vs. the Avalanche?

The truth is, unless one of us is heavily involved in market research it's all just speculation anyway.

[Carl C]

Is this reflective of the total number of new sales? That would be my opinion; Like Scott's Bayliner analogy.

[gcarter]

I do admit in our business we don't require any heavy hauling. We carry a lot of stuff but not a lot of weight. I wouldn't even think of towing a boat w/one of mine, that's what the Expedition is for (I do like an SUV instead of a car, it's nice being able to take six to dinner). Nope, the reason I've owned so many is I don't have to worry about them. I can count on getting at least 250,000-400,000 miles w/ a lot of missed oil changes and service.

[BigGrizzly]

I worked for Honda. The ridgline has the same HP as my Jeep Grand Cherokee, but tows less and gets worse fuel economy towing. the target market was the the suburban business man who does an occasion hauling. Sorry to hijack it but that should end it.

[osur866]

Don said it pretty well, I haven't seen any 3/4 or 1 ton toys. with diseals yet. My sister has a tocoma and a suburbon and everytime she pulls the hourse trailer it is allways with the bourbon. Her words are it pulls better behind the bourbon. But for running around town hauling light loads it is great.

[gcarter]

Tundras can tow Donzis! :eek!::smash::shocking:
Here's Bob's Tundra doin it!!!

[VetteLT193]

Top 10 sellers for 2006:

1. Ford F-Series (796,039)
2. Chevrolet Silverado (636,069)
3. Toyota Camry (448,445)
4. Dodge Ram (364,177)
5. Honda Accord (354,441)
6. Honda Civic (316,638)
7. Chevrolet Impala (289,868)
8. Toyota Corolla (272,327)
9. Nissan Altima (232,457)
10. Chevrolet Cobalt (211,449)

Considering no Toyota truck even makes the list you can figure they sell under 200,000 of them. Compare that to Ford's almost 800,000 and you are looking at a minimum Toy:Ford ratio of 1:4.

[BUIZILLA]

that 1:4 ratio is supremely flawed.. :smash:

Ford uses all sizes of it's F series... F150-F250-F350-F450-F550 combined sales, to get their numbers, whereas Toyota has only ONE base size model to gather commulative total's.

[VetteLT193]

that 1:4 ratio is supremely flawed.. :smash:
Ford uses all sizes of it's F series... F150-F250-F350-F450-F550 combined sales, to get their numbers, whereas Toyota has only ONE base size model to gather commulative total's.

Details details. LOL

[roadtrip se]

that 1:4 ratio is supremely flawed.. :smash:
Ford uses all sizes of it's F series... F150-F250-F350-F450-F550 combined sales, to get their numbers, whereas Toyota has only ONE base size model to gather commulative total's.

Are these not ALL pickup lines?

Split it out and the numbers still speak for themselves any way.

Ford Super Duty outsells all other heavy duty pickups, combined.

Ford F-150 and Chevy Silverado sales are typically neck and neck,
with F-150 beating out Chevy most years. Maybe not this year, as
Chevy has a fresher product, ugly as it is.

Tundra? Where? I hear you can get one with a whole bunch of bonus
cash ($6-7K) on the hood at your local dealer these days, so those of you want
one should be able to get one real cheap.

Side benefit to all of the subvention by Toyota is that the domestics are cheaper
to buy too!

[BUIZILLA]

typical car salesman... :smash: :doh: :anchor: :yes:

now, split out everything except F150 and get back to me for 2007 YTD numbers... your numbers are like comparing an NFL linebackers stat's to a high school sophmore's numbers..

:popcorn: :lookaroun:

[zelatore]

that 1:4 ratio is supremely flawed.. :smash:
Ford uses all sizes of it's F series... F150-F250-F350-F450-F550 combined sales, to get their numbers, whereas Toyota has only ONE base size model to gather commulative total's.

I thought they only grouped the F150-250-350 sales for the count, with maybe the 450 added for '08. (the 'light duty' chassis, same as GM/Dodge) The F550/650 have more in common with a Freightliner than an F150 - they're sold as medium duty trucks. I doubt you'd find many/any of them on a lot at the corner Ford dealer unless they handle the bigger trucks.

In that case, I'll call it a fair fight. If they are counting the medium duty trucks, that's cheatin'.

BTW, I heard a Toyota commerical on the radio last week claiming they were the number one selling 1/2 ton in NorCal this year. Hmmmm...then where are they? I don't see them on the road much.

Regardless, we all know what kind of lies there are in the world: Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics!

[VetteLT193]

I thought they only grouped the F150-250-350 sales for the count, with maybe the 450 added for '08. (the 'light duty' chassis, same as GM/Dodge) The F550/650 have more in common with a Freightliner than an F150 - they're sold as medium duty trucks. I doubt you'd find many/any of them on a lot at the corner Ford dealer unless they handle the bigger trucks.
In that case, I'll call it a fair fight. If they are counting the medium duty trucks, that's cheatin'.
BTW, I heard a Toyota commerical on the radio last week claiming they were the number one selling 1/2 ton in NorCal this year. Hmmmm...then where are they? I don't see them on the road much.
Regardless, we all know what kind of lies there are in the world: Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics!

I am 99% sure that they don't count medium duty trucks, but Toyota can't compete against a 250 / 2500 series truck either so I agree those need to be taken out to make a fair comparison.

[BUIZILLA]

purty sure the 650 and 750 is a different production plant and record keeping.... since the engines and drivetrains are chassis specific for those configurations..

[zelatore]

I'm not sure how they're doing it now. If you look at the consumer Ford website, they include up to the F450. To find anything bigger (F550) you have to go to a separate commercial website. Of course, on the commercial site, they list the F650 as their 'entry level medium duty' chassis.

I know I just took an F650 with a Cat and Spicer 7-speed in as a trade – it’s no way/no how a consumer vehicle! Heck, it’s too big for us to use but the boss wants to keep it for some reason. (I’m trying to convince him to trade it for an F450 w/12’ stake bed…)

[Tidbart]

Here are some interesting numbers:
.
Top 10 Pickups Sales Figures Year-to-Date (YTD) June-2007
.
Ford F-Series
355,438 -11.2% YTD
June 2007: 65,156
June 2006: 65,452
.
Chevrolet Silverado
310,896 -2.0% YTD
June 2007: 44,955
June 2006: 58,791
.
Dodge Ram
185,257 +1.0% YTD
June 2007: 31,1114
June 2006: 32,375
.
GMC Sierra
99,293 -2.3% YTD
June 2007: 19,467
June 2006: 17,756
.
Toyota Tacoma
92,462 +6.3% YTD
June 2007: 15,335
June 2006: 13,995
.
Toyota Tundra
82,840 +42.3% YTD
June 2007: 21,727
June 2006: 8,822
.
Ford Ranger
42,970 -12.5% YTD
June 2007: 7,372
June 2006: 8,046

Chevrolet Colorado
41,211 -9.2% YTD
June 2007: 6,946
June 2006: 9,171
.
Nissan Titan
33,073 -15.9% YTD
June 2007: 4,405
June 2006: 5,422
.
Nissan Frontier
34,048 -18.5% YTD
June 2007: 5,722
June 2006: 6,411

[zelatore]

Now that's what we're looking for. Can it be broken out by seperate models (i.e. 150/250) or by region?

I'm not surprised to see a big jump for Toyota since they have an all new product this year. Not so good for Chevy though! I am surprised to see Dodge is actually up slightly. Maybe the 'lifetime warranty' thing is working for them?

BTW, when is the new F150 due out?

[Tidbart]

Found an article that confirmed as said above that Ford doesn't breakout the different models in the F Series.

Another stated that the new model F-150 will be out in 09, if I remember correctly.

We could look at all the numbers in the world, they may or may not support somebody's opinion of any vehicle. The way I look at it is, the only opinion that counts is the one of the person who owns the vehicle.:yes:

B

[chappy]

We could look at all the numbers in the world, they may or may not support somebody's opinion of any vehicle. The way I look at it is, the only opinion that counts is the one of the person who owns the vehicle.:yes:
B


:beer:

[zelatore]

Oh come on, arguing about trucks must be some sort of american birth right. It's like Mustang vs Camero, cat vs dog, repulican vs democrat (oops, stepped over the line there!:smash:)

You're right though - the most important opinion is always they guy writing the check.

[smokediver]

Are these not ALL pickup lines?
Split it out and the numbers still speak for themselves any way.
Ford Super Duty outsells all other heavy duty pickups, combined.
Ford F-150 and Chevy Silverado sales are typically neck and neck,
with F-150 beating out Chevy most years. Maybe not this year, as
Chevy has a fresher product, ugly as it is.
Tundra? Where? I hear you can get one with a whole bunch of bonus
cash ($6-7K) on the hood at your local dealer these days, so those of you want
one should be able to get one real cheap.
Side benefit to all of the subvention by Toyota is that the domestics are cheaper
to buy too!
Ford has only the ford brand pickup ... GM has chevy and gmc ... if those 2 were combined , ford would never be able to say they sell the most trucks ...never ever ....

[roadtrip se]

Ram 301,859 vs 303,476 -.6%
F-Series 588,952 vs 672,732 -12.5%
Silverado 526,575 vs 539,310 -2.4%
Sierra 174,621 vs 177,813 -1.8%

Total Big Three 1,591,837 vs 1,693,331 -5.99%

Tundra 162,348 vs 101,571 59.8%
Titan 55,960 vs 61750 -9.4%

So there you have it...

Before the Toyota lovers squeal with glee..

Pickup sales for the Big Three were down 100K units, while Tundra sales were up almost 60K units, so where did the the rest of the 40K go? Tundra sales? No. Try higher gas prices driving people to smaller vehicles.

Fact is, on average 80% of the Tundra buyers traded Toyota Suvs or smaller trucks like the Tacoma. Less than 20% were conquest trade-ins from other manufacturers. This kind of demand is only sustainable for so long, because there are only so many current Toyota owners that want the latest and will buy one of these things.

Finally, don't forget about cash on the hood. Isn't is ironic that the RAM is holding its own here with the oldest platform in the business? Could it be cash on hood? YES. Second in line for cash on hood in 2007? Toyota with an avearge incentive of $6 to $7K. So how long is Toyota going to keep trying to buy business until they let their offer stand on its own?

We'll see. By the way, if anybody wants to see the complete Auto News sales stats, I can email them to you.
Just send me a PM and a good address.

Your friendly car salesman...

[BUIZILLA]

Fact is, on average 80% of the Tundra buyers traded Toyota Suvs or smaller trucks like the Tacoma. Less than 20% were conquest trade-ins from other manufacturers. This kind of demand is only sustainable for so long, because there are only so many current Toyota owners that want the latest and will buy one of these things. RT, i'm really not sure where you got these facts from, but that's just not the case around here. Fact is, I go right by the largest Toyota dealer in the USA twice a day, Kendall Toyota and Southeast Toyota Distributors, a Jim Moran Co. Twice a day, 7 days a week I do this, virtually 50 weeks a year, or more... My eyes do not deceive me when I see what's going in, and what's going out, each and every day I pass by there. I SEE THE TRADE-IN'S ON THE FRONT AND BACK LINES EVERY DAY. In fact again, I was there on the way home tonight on their Lexus/Toyota wholesale/lease return lot. Your info may be true in Maybelline, Iowa, but right here in the largest Toyota market in the USA your numbers absolutely don't jive with reality. :lookaroun: and I didn't see one sign saying they were giving 6k to 7k away today that's for sure, your DAMM lucky IF you can even find a place to park, it's so busy ALL THE TIME.

with that said, the '08 F350 I climbed all over yesterday really made me think... in a good way... :)

[DONZI]

Top Gear test's!:)
1-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tom3OUKDM9I&feature=related


2-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQ_60PpxSzI&feature=related

[BUIZILLA]

Matter of fact, AIR there were three on the Lexus side Sunday when I went by... :nilly: I don't need a camera, my eyes don't lie, I was there, you must not have been on the 4th floor roof, as that's were ALL of the trades go on the Lexus lot, I was there tonight myself, personally in flesh :yes:.. fact again, if Ford was such a big seller, then why is this entire Fla market a runaway for Southeast Toyota Distributors and has been since the early 80's... oh wait, I guess Toyota just decided to give another National mass sales award to SETD for the hell of it and stiff the rest of the USA dealers, just to prove you 2, and only you 2 wrong.. rigghhtttt, call the Jim Moran Group and tell them that, then call SETD and tell them that, then call Toyota in LA and get their view, since they collect the checks from the largest Toyota dealer in the USA, maybe even ALL of North America, then call the Fla Sales Tax Revenue group for sales tax collected on DELIVERED TOYOTA TUNDRA SALES, maybe they are all liars too... go and ask a Kendall manager (Michael Cordero will tell ya straight) why their inventory is low? they sell them as fast as they hit the lot, and they have 3 HUGE lots, usually with mandatory perks and pads, and they have a LOT of documented DELIVERED sales to back it up, those documented FACTS don't lie. :pimp:

now, that doesn't mean that a (Tundra) is an OVERALL better truck IMO, or *I* think they are better, or I would even buy another one (probably wouldn't) it's just that people ARE BUYING THEM for a reason and you 2 just refuse to remove your Ford blinders and Ford ear plugs and believe it. :superman: :hyper: I also have no clue exactly what people/contractors/businesses/tradesman are trading in for them, but they damm sure are, every single day.. so, documented facts are documented facts

note to remember > if you sell 60,000+ units of something out of nowhere, in one year, where it reflects negative sales on other competiters product, then there has to be a legitimate reason, because all 60,000 buyers that were driving something else, just aren't stupid... that's 60,000+ to 2 if your keeping count :hyper:

speaking of facts >

let's see sales by region??

let's see the HONEST yearly breakout stat's for F150 vs GM 1500 vs 1500 Dodge vs Toyota Tundra vs Nissan Titan?? I've owned every one except a Titan, in multiple's, and why aren't those accurate numbers ever published ??

try this yearly breakout 1994 -2004-2007 stat > GM 2500HD diesel vs F250 diesel vs Dodge 2500 diesel ?? I've owned every one of them in multiple's, and then do the same for gas engines...

then this yearly 2004-2007 stat > 6.0 Powerstroke engine warranty $$$ :bonk: :toiletpap vs 6.6 Duramax engine warranty $$$ :cool!: vs 5.9/6.7 Dodge/Cummins engine warranty $$$ :tongue:

I don't see GM suing Isuzu, and Dodge suing Cummins, like Ford is/was aggressively suing Navistar...

i'm open minded, so show me the legitimate documented rebuttal facts, not rumor... no facts?? then don't bother

BTW, to be honest, I just spent my first out of pocket breakage $$$$ on my 2004 Tundra in over 3 1/2 years and 75,000 miles, we broke a RH tailgate cable pin... it's still on the ORIGINAL brakes, rotors, drums, belts, hoses, all bulbs, spark plugs, wires, cap, rotor, battery (?), 2 drivers and 2nd set of tires :cool: :shark:

would I buy another Tundra today? probably not, they don't fit my needs with the new high bed sides, and I don't need the 5.7 engine, but I like the new Mitsubishi's actually...

would I buy another HD today, probably not, they're fugly

would I buy any Dodge, no way....

would I buy an F350 today if I had too.... maybe, just maybe.... probably... just on interior's alone they win...

but an '09 Dmax 4x4 'Burban really get's me a woody :convertib:

see, i'm not as biased as you may think :tongue:

I really like that white quad cab Pete for sale on OSO, now THAT'S a truck..

[osur866]

I have yet to see a Toyota that will compare to any of the big 3's 3/4 or 1 ton trucks.

[gcarter]

I have yet to see a Toyota that will compare to any of the big 3's 3/4 or 1 ton trucks.
You won't because they don't exist. They do in other parts of the world, but not as pickups, mainly 750 size and larger w/turbo diesels. I haven't seen any large over the road trucks though.

[DonziFreak]

fact again, if Ford was such a big seller, then why is this entire Fla market a runaway for Southeast Toyota Distributors and has been since the early 80's...
Gotta remember, over here in Fla, people basicly live off of the imports, plus many of the people down here in the Miami area don't know the need for a bigger truck, like the F-350's and the big chevy's......so they buy a Tundra or a Civic or a Camry....I don't know why and in all honesty, i perfer Chevy to ANYTHING (yes, even over Fords.....) but the fact is that most of us on this forum have big boats or big load needs, so we look for big trucks, thus, a lot of this stuff is biased, hence why there is no lack of Toyota haters here....:cool:



by the way, on a personal note, we owned a toyota pick-up once, it sucked.....:bonk: :wink:

[Sweet little 16]

you guys haven't mentioned lincoln and caddy trucks/suv, see alot of them in jersey nice ride and more cargo room then a town car :pimp:

[roadtrip se]

and for goodness sake, Buiz don't blow a vein, okay.

I have access to a lot of the data that you are asking about, at least as much of it that is public (warranty stats are not published), and would be happy to forward the spread sheets to you, so you may slice and dice them to your hearts content.

Let me make a simple statment here. Just as diesel is yours, the automotive space is mine and has been for 25+ years. I make a living by knowing what is going on in the space and recognizing trends as they emerge, so I may help my clients capitalize on them. Yes, I currently call Ford a customer, but Nissan is also a client. I have experience with Audi/VW, Chrysler, GM, Honda, and Toyota. I do recognize that Ford has made a bunch of mistakes over the years.

My comments about the Tundra are based on what is going on at a NATIONAL LEVEL, not South Florida or California. Credible trade rags and analysts back up what I am saying like Automotive News, JD Power, and Auto Pacific. Conquest levels are low and incentives have been high all of 2007. This isn't denial or blinder think, it IS what is happening out there.

So how do you explain RAM sales, friend? This issue is a lot more complex than a sales chart. When I get a moment, I'll see what I can dig up to back these statments up.

[BUIZILLA]

I truly can't esplain the RAM thingy, neither can the dealers, makes no sense.... must be a HEMI fixation..

break out the 2006-2007 F150 vs Tundra vs 1500 GMC/Chevy vs 1500 Dodge, forget everything else, and then we'll talk rationale, and i'll absolutely listen, but anything above that chassis level comparison is pure BS and nonsense rhetoric :smash:

:cool!:

[Trueser]

wow, and winter just started

[DonziFreak]

wow, and winter just started

you said it all right there..... :biggrin:

[realbold]

you guys haven't mentioned lincoln and caddy trucks/suv, see alot of them in jersey nice ride and more cargo room then a town car :pimp:
Nice for bling factor, but come to think of it , I dont think I ever saw one haul or tow anything.

[DonziFreak]

Nice for bling factor, but come to think of it , I dont think I ever saw one haul or tow anything.


Theres a guy named Butch Ott that races with us on the National Circuit every year, hes from Ontario Canada and travels as far south as Texas for the races.....he tows his boat around the country with a Cadillac Escalade....thats racing in style! :biggrin:

[zelatore]

Here in NorCal, there's quite a few Caddy's on the road, especially around Discovery Bay (more than a few Hummer H1 and H2's as well) in the delta. I see enough of them I'm sure they are disproportionably represented since Disco Bay is an upscale on the water development and everybody likes to one-up the Joneses.

I've used my boss's Escalades (previous and current generations) to tow periodically, and they aren't bad. Basically it's just a fully loaded Suburban with more motor under the hood. Same thing goes for the half-truck version - it's just a blinged-out Avalanche. I've towed a 20' enclosed trailer loaded with show materials as well as a 26' diesel center consol a few times and the Escalade did a better job than my '05 Hemi Ram (not saying much, I know).

Granted, I only use his Caddy locally, maybe 50 miles at a time. But I suspect the improvement would only get better with a longer trip.