Winterization: Anti-Freeze or Not?

[RedDog]

Every winter I have drained water from my block, hoses, sea-water pump, and manifolds/risers and then poured in anti-freeze from the top through the hoses and thermostat housing until full. This seems to be a very safe and conservative approach if somewhat messy.

I am beginning to wonder if the use of the anti-freeze is over-kill for my location - Tennessee. I winterize mid-Nov and de-winterize in early April. I know the anti-freeze is good for combating corrosion but is it really necessary for the relatively short time I have to deal with?

It would be nice to not have to deal with the anti-freeze so at my leisure I could work on the seawater pump and possibly the oil/steering cooler with out draining much of it down. It would also allow for a quick start-up if a nice weekend beckons an outing. Put drain plugs in, battery, tighten belts, and go.

[hardcrab]

If you ran anti freeze thru the system and drained it , the residual pockets of coolant are safe.
The best of both worlds ?

[gold-n-rod]

I know the anti-freeze is good for combating corrosion.....

'nuff said.

:wink:

[RickR]

I use antifreeze for the 3 months Genuine Risk is stored and in the Spring drain what I can get out easily and reuse the following Winter.

Probably overkill but if there any pockets of water in the block the antifreeze will mix and prevent freezing.

Why don't you build a garage and boat year round :wink:

[justleft]

Yea, we would blow a round of the evo friendly polyglycol through. (RV plumbing type).

Please don't be blowing prestone into the lake.

[MOP]

Why would you fill it only to drain it? Cast iron is better kept wet, you would be better off leaving it in. If you have aluminum heads it is worth using DexCool.

[hardcrab]

MOP,
If RD were to prefer an empty system so that it can be worked on, any residual water in the system won't freeze.

[MOP]

MOP,
If RD were to prefer an empty system so that it can be worked on, any residual water in the system won't freeze.
The accessories have nothing to do with it the block but should be protected, I have been in Nashville when it froze up. Sure it is rare, but people were stuffing cars left and right. RD was thinking of ditching anti freeze is not a good thought. In the spring drain it, RV stuff must be checked for corrosion properties. A little inconvenience to do some work that probably should be done in the spring, is no reason not to have cheap insurance for out toys!

[The Hedgehog]

Hmm,

I would say that it depends on how quickly you can get to your boat. I just drained the water in south Alabama. It would not freeze hard and long enough. I also as able to run the boat once a month.

If you can get to it quickly to pack it with anti freeze in case of a hard freeze you should be ok. I recently moved to central Tn. I will be packing the block with the RV antifreeze. I can't take the risk that a hard freeze hits while I am out of town. I also like the idea of my boat sitting safe and sound with a block full of good ole rust inhibitors. I figure that we have a nice long season and a 3-4 month layup wont kill me. At least I hope!

[RedDog]

OK - thanks. I have 5 or 6 gallons that I drained out last Spring. I guess it's going back in this PM.

[MOP]

RD a little pain removes the possible sweat!

Phil

[boatnut]

Not to prolong this discussion, but being it is getting to be that time of year: I don't understand the concept (maybe I missed something) of just pouring anti-freeze in the block -- it seems that with thermostats closed, air pockets, etc. it would not get everywhere it needs to. I am planning (as discussed in detail in some threads awhile back) to ensure the engine is warmed up well -- which is not easy to do when running on the trailer-- and then switching over to a potent anti-freeze mixture (e.g. raw water pump sucking from a 5 gal container) until anti-freeze mixture is coming out the exhaust for awhile, and then shutting down and leaving it as is. (I realize this doesn't address the need someone had to have the system drained for maintenance.) I,m just not sure you can get anti-freeze everywhere by filling the cooling system cold unless you carefully remove and drain lots of hoses etc. etc. which is very difficult to do --- at least to a mercruiser 454 in a classic hull. (The little H&M 302 with its simplistic cooling system is lots easier.) I am installing valves in the raw water intake to facilitate the switch over to the anti-freeze mixture from the normal path through the drive. I assume the water passage through the stern drive (bravo) drains and is not a freeze problem -- correct? Ed

[MOP]

Once everything is drained it is simple just remove the circ pump hose put a longer one on the outlet of the pump, if you do not have an extra hose you can use a piece of PVC pipe to gain the length. The idea is to be higher then the Tstat housing, pour slowly the air will vent through the vent hole in the Tstat. Once the block is full move to the manifolds, put a catch under where the exhaust will dump pull the feed hose and again pour slowly until you hear it start to flow into the catch. As far as the long hose for the block goes I tie off to the Tstat housing and cover it with a hunk of plastic wrap until spring. In the spring I put a catch under the hull drain and dump it all out.

Phil

A P.S. Some pull the Tstat housing to pour it in, more work and the potential for a new leaks in the spring. My way just 3 hose clamps and a little patience, have done it that way for near 50 years with -0- incidences.

[Uncle Fester]

I've been doing what boatnut does for years without any problems. I fire her up on the hose and let the temp get to 150 (normal operating temp), shut her off and connect a short washer hose to the saddle with the other end in a 5 gallon bucket of antifreeze. Fire her up and the pump sucks in the antifreeze and spits it out the exhaust. Within a couple of minutes the 5 gallon bucket is empty and the temp is at 180 so I know the thermostat was open. Takes 15 minutes from start to finish and don't have to disconnect anything.

[Pismo]

Salt water or aluminum parts, use antifreeze. If fresh water stock engine, fog, pull 4 plugs, three hoses, done in 3 minutes.

[RedDog]

Salt water or aluminum parts, use antifreeze. If fresh water stock engine, fog, pull 4 plugs, three hoses, done in 3 minutes.

Now that is the answer I was looking for. However, everyone convinced me to add anti-freeze.

WARNING - I pulled the 5 gallon jug plus another couple of 1 gallon jugs out that I drained out of the system in the Spring. I had also used this anti-freeze the year before (or at least most of it). I thought to test it before pouring it in. It had almost no freeze protection - if you recycle your anti-freeze for later use be sure to test it before reuse.

[boatnut]

I tried pulling/opening the plugs and hoses per the Mercruiser manual for my 7.4L Bravo setup and found the hoses very difficult to get off or even loose enough to drain well -- not even close to a 3 min job for me. It takes me 3 minutes just to get myself and a few tools within reach of the hoses. I prefer to remove hoses when I want to change them that way I can use a knife :) . I know there are lots of ways to milk this cow but running anti-freeze through the system and not disconnecting anything works best for me. I remember back about 1990 we had a real unusual cold spell in California (Silicon Valley area) and I had a 1982 22' with TRS/454 power. At that time I drained the cooling system (I thought) every winter. However after we had the freeze I realized I had not drained the oil cooler that was mounted inside the transmission (not part of drive on the TRS). It still had water in it and it split and allowed water into the trans oil when I test ran the engine. Fortunately I found the milky oil before damage was done. I think the process of running anti-freeze through the system would have prevented this oversight also.

[Tony]

WARNING - It had almost no freeze protection - if you recycle your anti-freeze for later use be sure to test it before reuse.

Does this mean that it actually WILL freeze?
Or, will it freeze at 0 instead of 20 or so?

I use the method of running it through the engine.
I actually recapture it with 5 gal. buckets hung from the tips, then re-fill the bucket sitting on the engine.

With the cost of RV anti-freeze going up I've considered re-use, maybe not now!

[MOP]

Now that is the answer I was looking for. However, everyone convinced me to add anti-freeze.

WARNING - I pulled the 5 gallon jug plus another couple of 1 gallon jugs out that I drained out of the system in the Spring. I had also used this anti-freeze the year before (or at least most of it). I thought to test it before pouring it in. It had almost no freeze protection - if you recycle your anti-freeze for later use be sure to test it before reuse.

I always use my hydrometer to make sure the used stuff is up to snuff, I have some 50/50 that is 3 years old still reads decent but will get a little booster shot. RD yours being only 1 season having a low reading may prove the point that there was residual water in your block/system that diluted it. Don't understand this post to begin with for the few lousy dollars and the small hassle of making sure the stuff does not harm man/beast guys want to "Cheap Out" shame on you will you post your tales of woe in the spring!

[The Hedgehog]

I tried pulling/opening the plugs and hoses per the Mercruiser manual for my 7.4L Bravo setup and found the hoses very difficult to get off or even loose enough to drain well -- not even close to a 3 min job for me. It takes me 3 minutes just to get myself and a few tools within reach of the hoses. I prefer to remove hoses when I want to change them that way I can use a knife :) . I know there are lots of ways to milk this cow but running anti-freeze through the system and not disconnecting anything works best for me. I remember back about 1990 we had a real unusual cold spell in California (Silicon Valley area) and I had a 1982 22' with TRS/454 power. At that time I drained the cooling system (I thought) every winter. However after we had the freeze I realized I had not drained the oil cooler that was mounted inside the transmission (not part of drive on the TRS). It still had water in it and it split and allowed water into the trans oil when I test ran the engine. Fortunately I found the milky oil before damage was done. I think the process of running anti-freeze through the system would have prevented this oversight also.


It takes practice. Last year I was able to do it in a few min. If I just opened them all probably 5 min. I usually drained each section at a time and then did the oil cooler and intercooler. I did the intercooler last and seldomly found much there. I had the advantage of being able to crawl into the nice large engine compartment of the 27ZX.

[RickR]

FYI; VERY LITTLE seawater flows through the block at idle, even at normal operating temp. Especially with an oil cooler.

I have a large oil cooler (wo/thermostat) that causes the water temp in my engine to go BELOW the thermostat rated temperature at idle. Which means the thermostat is CLOSED while engine is running at idle.

The most important part of the winterizing process is draining the water out of the block, cooler, manifolds, hoses and water pumps.

[smoothie]

How cold does it get in your area ??? and is the boat outside or inside...Up north where Im at it could be 10 degrees outside and the inside garage temp is still above freezing from the geothermal heat from the ground...the snow melts from the cars and puddles on the concrete... buy a thermometer and do a study this winter...bar chart preferred.....:biggrin:

[yeller]

Sometimes I think people get too concerned about things. Without antifreeze, will there be some corrosion......yes. Will there be enough to worry about.....no. It would take decades and decades for the corrosion to be bad enough to damage the block. Not knocking anyone that likes to antifreeze. I commend those that do. Shows you really care about your rides. I, however have never done it and I live in Canada. Now I admit, the longest I have ever run the same motor was 10yrs, but when I stripped it down I didn't notice any corrosion. A very minor amount of rust, but basically negligable. My aluminum exhaust manifolds didn't show any corrosion to worry about after 18yrs of use. Now I didn't have any cooling system to speak of, so I didn't have to worry about water pockets freezing. Pull the block drains and that was it. Now with the 496 I could have water pockets. Still not adding antifreeze though. Drained the system and added a small heater instead.

[Jack Frost]

this is a very stimulating discussion
all this talk of hard freezes
oh baby

[needadonzi]

OK, what kind of muffs (lets keep this clean) fit an SS (CLE) lower unit on an Alpha 1? It has one hole on each side (lets keep this clean). Common practice in my area (many weeks with temps in the teens) is to run the engine with a 5 gal reservoir of antifreeze through the lower unit.

[smoothie]

[QUOTE=Jack Frost;429279]this is a very stimulating discussion
all this talk of hard freezes
oh baby[/QUOTE

Better hit the road Jack....its mid 50's the second week of November on the north coast ...Global warming is setting in.....

[BigGrizzly]

Antifreeze is a good corrosion and rust fighter, Remember in very cold climates rust doesn't happen as fast as it does when temps are up and down. Rust needs moisture and oxygen. I have closed cooling systems so I only drain the exchanger and exhausts and oil/Ps cooler.

[TheFees]

If you follow the Mercruiser manuals, they have you pulling each spark plug, putting in a teaspoon of oil, opening all the drain plugs etc.
So what I do may, or may not be the best way of doing it.
I start the motor with the muffs on the outdrive, hooked to a garden hose. I let it warm up thoroughly. I am attentitive to watch the temperature gauge. I want to see it continue to rise, until it hits a little over 150 or so, then I see a sudden dip. That tells me the theormostat is open. All told I let it run for about 15 minutes to get it nice and warm.
Beforehand, I make up a 50/50 mix of antifreeze and water, in the antifreeze container. I have a special funnel, duct taped real well to a short garden hose end. It takes 2 people to do this, but after the motor is good and warm, I ask my assistant to feed the antifreeze into the funnel, which is a gravity feed to the rabbit ears on the outdrive. I have the carb air cleaner off, with fogging fluid in hand. Restart the boat, immediately after shutting it off from the water flow, and hook up the funnel setup, and restart the boat. I start fogging immediately, but not enough to stall the motor, while my assistant is pouring antifreeze. I instruct him to tell me when they see antifreeze start to come out the exhaust. I continue to gently fog through the carb. Once the antifreeze starts to come out of the exhaust, I increase fogging in both the secondaries, and primaries until the motor stalls. I stall it out, by burying it with the fog. If it is not at an idle, this will not work, because no matter how much fogging spray you put in, it won't stall, or at least not very easily. I do not open any drain plugs or anything. That is it. The other thing I do is take the outdrive, and after having it lowered, to allow any water that was captured by the prop in the up position (rainwater etc) to drain out, I raise the outdrive all the way up using the trailer button, then kiss it down with just a nick on the down trim button, just enough to leave the pressure off of the hydraulics. Then I take what is left over of the antifreeze solution, and pour it in the prop from the back. It is raised up, so some drains out, and some stays in, but it is an antifreeze mix. Then I take a hefty construction grade 32 gallon plastic bag, and completely wrap the outdrive in it, even taping along the edge at the top where the outdrive meets the transom. I duct tape the points on the prop so they do not break through. I wrap the outdrive in a few spots with the tape to make sure it does not turn into a loose fit, snapping in the breeze situation, so it is wrapped tight, and it is done. I also use a 50/50 mix of WD40 and motor oil in a spray to mist/cover everything on the motor, although I try to stay away from the belts. I use the same sprayer on the trailer to prevent rust. I use straight WD40 behind the dash. I flip the bottom of the seat cushions up so air/moisture does not get trapped. Snap on the covers real well, with some empty plastic jugs where the water may get trapped on the cover, so it runs off instead. (After having removed the battery, and hooked it up to an inexpensive trickle charger for the winter.) Oh if I have used the boat more than 1 or 2 times that season, I change the oil first, before doing all of the winterizing stuff.
That is about it, as far as I can remember right now. The boat is a 1987, that I bought in 1989, been doing it that way for all those years, and no problems, even though I live in the Northeast, where it gets to zero or a little below once in a blue moon. I have a car mechanic friend, who bought a boat, did not know about winterizing, and his block was cracked, when he started it in the spring.

[Sweet little 16]

Sometimes I think people get too concerned about things. Without antifreeze, will there be some corrosion......yes. Will there be enough to worry about.....no. It would take decades and decades for the corrosion to be bad enough to damage the block.

what is decades and decades???? is it 2 decades 3 decades??? it always amazes me people say stuff like this and forget where they are??? there are alot of rides here that are 4 decades old !!!

[BigGrizzly]

bad but humorous. I have a friend that every year he uses 2 100 watt light bulbs to heat his engine bay. a couple of years ago he got cheap and since one bulb burned out he substituted florescent replacements to save energy unfortunately he did not drain his exhaust. well they cracked. When he told me the story, I explained about the heat energy put out by a normal bulb. So the moral is somes times you have to pay the price for experience.

[yeller]

what is decades and decades???? is it 2 decades 3 decades??? it always amazes me people say stuff like this and forget where they are??? there are alot of rides here that are 4 decades old !!!Nope...I remember where I am. NW coast. Still wouldn't worry about putting antifreeze in a drained block. If you want to...go ahead, makes no difference to me. I don't and it shouldn't make any difference to you. Our opinions differ....simple as that.

[TheFees]

bad but humorous. I have a friend that every year he uses 2 100 watt light bulbs to heat his engine bay. a couple of years ago he got cheap and since one bulb burned out he substituted florescent replacements to save energy unfortunately he did not drain his exhaust. well they cracked. When he told me the story, I explained about the heat energy put out by a normal bulb. So the moral is somes times you have to pay the price for experience.
Your post got a smile out of me. I have a favorite saying that goes, "Every time I save a dime, it costs me a fortune" Hey saving a dollar is ok, but dime savers, that is a different story.
Recently I did an elaborate woodworking project, creating a couple of walls out of solid cedar. When I was done cutting, planing, routing, sizing, shaping etc., I wanted to put a base coat of shellac on the pieces. Well I saved a dime, and used some 3 year old shellac I had in stock. The clear kind. Well it went down great. I came back an hour later, and the wood had turned brown. Since I already had other walls done in the stuff, that was clear golden, it didn't match. So I had to toss some of the brown stuff, and with some of it, I could plane it down 1/8th inch, and now I am going to make 1/8th inch strips to put on the back, to get it all the same depth. All told I wasted a lot of wood, and several days worth of time. I saved the 13 dollars for the new can of shellac and paid a heavy price. So when I redid all the pieces, I went to the store and bought the new shellac this time.
Want to hear another one. I had a body shop for 20 years. Some guy stopped by with a gallon of primer that would save me 10 bucks. So I tried it. The van that it was applied to peeled, which required to be stripped, and all of body fill had to be replaced. It was over a 3 grand loss, but I saved 10 bucks on a gallon of primer.
So when I read of your buddy who is saving the 7 dollars for the gallon of antifreeze then running up the electric bill with a couple of light bulbs, it cracked me up. The chance of someone tripping over the cord, or it becomes unplugged by mistake, the bulb burns out, so you have to continually check it. Oh he had 2 bulbs, well in that case.
They look on the bright side (No pun intended) you have something to rib him about for the next 100 years. :bonk:

[Sweet little 16]

Nope...I remember where I am. NW coast. Still wouldn't worry about putting antifreeze in a drained block. If you want to...go ahead, makes no difference to me. I don't and it shouldn't make any difference to you. Our opinions differ....simple as that.
sorry Yeller you missed my point , it was not weather it was antifreeze or not and not your geographical location but your internet location and the point that people throw terms around like decades and decades or 20 years and that many readers don't realize that some of the opinons and facts and BOATS are 4 decades old and the boats have been given the same routine all that time by the original owners or passed on to the next generation in the family like our 16.
we really don't disagree
the routine by us is antifreeze run thru to temp and then drained plugs left out in the NE climate where 15,000 gallons of water in our pool can freeze solid over night there will be no liquid of any kind in the block or lines

[Air 22]

Park your Donzi just North of Cuba @ Poodle Nation and Yatch Storage and end your worries.:cool:.average January temp is 80deg...Caution :eek!:...Ice can be found... spilling out of local Mojito Reserve as the Mad Dog patrols his lot:smash::wink::shark:
BTW... do NOT park on his sprinkler heads... Or you will find Coconuts growing in your bildge and various hidden locations:):)

[Jamesbon]

Living in Maryland for 10 years, I simply, ran the engine on the hose until she was hot, then quickly hooked up the ol'5 gallon bucket mixed with a 50/50 solution on anti freeze and water and ran the engine until the mixture was good and green out of the exhaust/drive. Worked for the GT everytime. Doesn't get any easier than that. Never re-used the old mixture, it's cheap enough to mix a new batch every season.

Please don't flog me for this! :eek!: When I finally moved the GT down to Florida and started her on a wash rack at the marina for the first time out of "winterization," I'll never forget the look of the fork lift driver's face as he watched the "nuclear green" solution pumping out of my exhaust, down the tarmac and into the canal. I could tell his head was about to blow! He never said anything. I guess that's the only drawback. ...It's always better to ask for forgiveness rather than permission... :shocking:

[chappy]

Please don't flog me for this! :eek!: When I finally moved the GT down to Florida and started her on a wash rack at the marina for the first time out of "winterization," I'll never forget the look of the fork lift driver's face as he watched the "nuclear green" solution pumping out of my exhaust, down the tarmac and into the canal. I could tell his head was about to blow! He never said anything. I guess that's the only drawback. ...It's always better to ask for forgiveness rather than permission... :shocking:

That is a GREAT story.:jester: