IL Edition update.

[Mr X]

Here is a little update. I will be adding more to this thread as I progress.
The photos do not begin to show the colors, Viper GTS Blue metal flake and
ultra silver metal flake. The colors are "electric" in the light.

[Lenny]

THIS is what I have been waiting quietly to see :D

Post away... :)

Awesome work as usual Ted. :yes:

I can NOT wait to see the driveline...

[MOP]

Will be sweet seeing it come together!

[smokediver]

looks great Ted .. Awesome color choice !!!!

[Mr X]

Thanks guys! I will post more when it is cleared and buffed out.

[catch 22]

Ted, The HP600 boat is one of my favorites of all time:yes:. But when you threw me that little tidbit at the boat ramp in Sota I got to thinking if it comes out as good as the HP600 it will be SWEET as usual. But I still have one little issue.
It's a DODGE.:wink::):):):):):):wink:. Ted, what drive are you going to use. Can't wait. Keep us posted.:hyper::)

[BigGrizzly]

Ted you are a real piece of work. You never do anything 1/2 a$$ed. All I can do is build engines. I can never be style oriented like you and Catch. Of course keeping the Criterion as original as possible is hard enough for me. This winter I will try to fix and polish the gel coat and get pods got the pressure gauges. We decided to leave the engine the way it is and loose the big motor. It will probably end up is some guys Camero. As for MOPAR, as Garry would say,"
It doesn't matter as long as it is fast!" That is from a guy who has turned more factory sponsor ships than most people have been offered!

[catch 22]

Ted you are a real piece of work. You never do anything 1/2 a$$ed. All I can do is build engines. I can never be style oriented like you and Catch. Of course keeping the Criterion as original as possible is hard enough for me. This winter I will try to fix and polish the gel coat and get pods got the pressure gauges. We decided to leave the engine the way it is and loose the big motor. It will probably end up is some guys Camero. As for MOPAR, as Garry would say,"
It doesn't matter as long as it is fast!" That is from a guy who has turned more factory sponsor ships than most people have been offered!
OH IT WILL BE FAST.

[Mr X]

I am going to TRY to make a Bravo XR coupled to an Imco lower last for a while. I think it will work due to the weight of the 22 and IF I do not hammer the throttle.

[catch 22]

Ted, I know you like the M+'s,.Do they make one that big.What do you plan on using.

[Mr X]

With the drive gearing and the redline of 6300 on the Ilmor, I am GUESSING around a 30-32 pitch will be in the ball park.

[catch 22]

Are you going to try a M+.

[Mr X]

No,
the Mirage + is only available as big as a 29 pitch

[catch 22]

I have a new CNC 4 BLADE 31p i got from throttle up but i have not use it yet. maybe today if it don't rain.

[p729lws]

I am going to TRY to make a Bravo XR coupled to an Imco lower last for a while. I think it will work due to the weight of the 22 and IF I do not hammer the throttle.


Must be going w/ the 7-10 if you have concerns about the XR drive holding up. The previous owner of my Pantera Sport was running 850 HP through a XR / standard IMCO lower w/ good luck.

Dan

[gold-n-rod]

I was thinking of calling the boat "MOR-IL" ....kinda of a play on words.
Maybe in very small letters on the transom........

How 'bout "Loose MOR-ILs"

[p729lws]

Dan, you are correct. Hope to post some pictures of the "IL PILL" soon.
I was thinking of calling the boat "MOR-IL" ....kinda of a play on words.
Maybe in very small letters on the transom........


Ted,
Like you said, I doubt an XR would have any problem w/ 700 HP and the weight of a classic. If so, there's always the "next one" :cool:. I'm sure you have the connections. What color did you get?
Dan

[Mr X]

Ted,
Like you said, I doubt an XR would have any problem w/ 700 HP and the weight of a classic. If so, there's always the "next one" :cool:. I'm sure you have the connections. What color did you get?
Dan
Dan,

Platinum with polished intake. (standard color)
I figured it would match some of the silver accents on the boat.

[BigGrizzly]

Ted If you need prop help give me a call, I may have some strange stuff in stock.

[BUIZILLA]

It's an Ilness...

[Mr X]

Thanks Griz, I might be calling you.

ILness...... There is a lot of TRUTH in that one!

[MOP]

Ditto!

[yeller]

Must be going w/ the 7-10.... Nice.....:yes: :yes:
Look forward to the test results.

[Cuda]

With the drive gearing and the redline of 6300 on the Ilmor, I am GUESSING around a 30-32 pitch will be in the ball park.

Do you think you'll have any problems with Merc props slinging off a blade at those rpms?

Looks fantastic by the way!:cool:

[Mr X]

Thanks Joe,
I don't think the Merc props will have a problem......but it looks more like a Herring 5 blade is what I will be running.

[BUIZILLA]

Ted, with that much brute torque available, wouldn't a 1.36 be a better gear set with a 28" prop?

[Mr X]

Ted, with that much brute torque available, wouldn't a 1.36 be a better gear set with a 28" prop?
Jim,
Yes, the math points that direction for sure. BUT I have tried 1:36 ratios and smaller pitch props on other high HP 22's and they are so ill handling that they are almost un-drivable. I know it sounds weird but, the more RPM's you turn a smaller pitch prop.....the squirelier the boat gets. A larger pitch prop turning less RPM's is much friendlier....and you still end up with the same top speed.

[BUIZILLA]

my calculator must need new battery's.... ya lost me there... :confused:

1.36 x 5200rpm x 28"/12" = ?

1.50 x 5200rpm x 32"/12" = ?

(?) = ft/min?

[Mr X]

Divide the engine RPM's by the drive ratio....
a 1:36 ratio turns the prop more RPM's than a 1:50.
My goal is to turn the prop less RPM's and a bigger pitch as apposed to a smaller pitch more RPM's

[BUIZILLA]

okay, doing it that way, I come up with a 3.5% different efficiency quotient?

[Lenny]

Ted, Don Tamm told me the same thing. (I believe it originated with you) :)

1:50 boats run better than 1:36 boats for whatever reason... (handling)

[Cuda]

it looks more like a Herring 5 blade is what I will be running.

:eek!::eek!::eek!:

It's not like they give those Herrings away.

You might know Nick Buis from I think the name of his business is Performance Marine, there on 49th Street. He had a 32 Skater with diesels, and two speed transmissions. He told me his top speed was right about 100 mph, but he was only limited because he ran out of prop, and he didn't want to get off the cash for a pair of Herrings.

[Mr X]

I know the boat first hand. Does the guy sitting in the back seat behind me look familure?

Yes, the herring's are a bit pricey....

[Cuda]

I know the boat first hand. Does the guy sitting in the back seat behind me look familure?
Yes, the herring's are a bit pricey....
Yeah, Nick knows me. He's worked on my Formula, as well as my Minx. :wink:

[Mr X]

Actually, that is Mad poodle in the back seat, long before Nice ever dreamed of the boat, it was built and owned by Adib Mastry. We ran it at the Miami boat show a few years back.

Gee's, I never thought I would see the day. I have now hi-jacked my own thread!!

[Cuda]

Actually, that is Mad poodle in the back seat, long before Nice ever dreamed of the boat, it was built and owned by Adib Mastry. We ran it at the Miami boat show a few years back.
Gee's, I never thought I would see the day. I have now hi-jacked my own thread!!
I didn't think I saw Nick's bald head, but my eyes aren't what they used to be. :)

Now I see the Great Fuzzy One. :)

[Cuda]

It sure was a good looking boat. I saw it twice in person, once during the Daytona PRA, and the other time he brought it to the Toys for Tots run on the Harris Chain of Lakes.

[The Hedgehog]

Wow, I hope that holds up on a light 22. I am getting ready to throw 800+ hp through a similar combo. I am using a worked over XR and Imco lower. The lower drag of a step hull should offset some of the drag of a heavier boat.

[Mr X]

The paint is finished! Alhough the windscreen looks gray in the photo, is the same color as the deck

[McGary911]

Wow. Looks nice. That pic really brings out the sparkles in your stripe. Much more than the first pic. Bet there was some polishing and clearcoating involved too......

[MOP]

Ahh so sweet, keep the pics coming! Will it be running by Xmass?

Phil

[Mr X]

Thanks, tons of clearcoating and wet sanding.
I am shooting for Newyears day.

[MOP]

Some things need to stay in the background!:pimp:

[DonCig]

Jim,
Yes, the math points that direction for sure. BUT I have tried 1:36 ratios and smaller pitch props on other high HP 22's and they are so ill handling that they are almost un-drivable. I know it sounds weird but, the more RPM's you turn a smaller pitch prop.....the squirelier the boat gets. A larger pitch prop turning less RPM's is much friendlier....and you still end up with the same top speed.
I do not fully understand the mechanics on this issue, but I agree with Ted and others on this point. Here is another opinion on the subject from BAM Marine.
http://www.go-fast.com/sterndrive_gear_ratios.htm

[BigGrizzly]

Here is what I have found. Ted is correct to a point. When turning smaller props 26 and less to make up the difference the prop slips and can not bite, it sends water in all directions causing instability especially in raised X dimensions. The problem occurs on single drives mostly. The point where a prop becomes a paddle wheel in stead of a prop is the issue. When you get up passed the 34->36inch problems recur. Of course this becomes the 100+ mph problems. Arnesons are another chapter!!! At this time M+ doesn't make a large prop for this reason. The stock BravoI also has issues above inches. This is the point that 5 blades on raised X's become the advantage. The other issue Ted didn't mention is when you turn a prop at high RPMs it will ventilate and cause blade failure. Herring and hydro and all others have this situation. With every body raising the X's to get more speed and people putting more power into boats, it is becoming a real issue, not just with props but drives and gimble housings as well. I have seen Herrings with blade failures, and at $4,000 a pop and no warranty it is a real drag.

[Air 22]

The paint is finished! Alhough the windscreen looks gray in the photo, is the same color as the deck

One Word...AWSOME!:yes:

I'm going to guess the eng & eng compartment will be color matched?:cool:
Can't wait to see the finished product...these pic's of the project are interesting..Thanks for sharing:wink::yes:

Maybe a trip to FL is needed for New Years...:yes...goggles in hand:wink:

[Mr X]

I do not fully understand the mechanics on this issue, but I agree with Ted and others on this point. Here is another opinion on the subject from BAM Marine.
http://www.go-fast.com/sterndrive_gear_ratios.htm

Don, a great find! An article that explains why it works like that.
I have found that to be true on countless boats I have run.
Thanks!

[Mr X]

One Word...AWSOME!:yes:
I'm going to guess the eng & eng compartment will be color matched?:cool:
Can't wait to see the finished product...these pic's of the project are interesting..Thanks for sharing:wink::yes:
Maybe a trip to FL is needed for New Years...:yes...goggles in hand:wink:
Yup, color matched and more!
Thanks Dwight.

[Lenny]

...more pics please... :D

Anonymous

[BigGrizzly]

Common Ted stop loafing and get this thing done Lenny is giong to wet his pants if you take too long!

[Air 22]

Ted...Happy New Year...how is the New 22? any pic's and or performance numbers?:smash::wink::wink:

[osur866]

I'd bring this back up to the top since there has been talk of another v-10 22, If my calculations are anywhere close if Ted can turn a 31" prop @ say 6100-6200 rpm assuming a 1.5 ratio drive @ 9% slip your looking at about 110ish M.P.H. :eek: And if hes uses 1.36 gears and can turn the 6200 rpms he's looking at more like 120ish. I'm thinking a pilots liscence is in order :yes: Ted this anywhere close? Steve

[Mr X]

I'd bring this back up to the top since there has been talk of another v-10 22, If my calculations are anywhere close if Ted can turn a 31" prop @ say 6100-6200 rpm assuming a 1.5 ratio drive @ 9% slip your looking at about 110ish M.P.H. :eek: And if hes uses 1.36 gears and can turn the 6200 rpms he's looking at more like 120ish. I'm thinking a pilots liscence is in order :yes: Ted this anywhere close? Steve

Steve,
I think you might be a touch optimistic.
My calculations are closer to 105 ish. with a 1:50 and a 30 pitch. It will definatly take lots of dialing in with different props and maybe drivo ratio changes.

Had a minor slow down....now waiting for a new custom fuel tank to be made.

[SilverBack]

Any updates?

[Mr X]

Looks like 103 MPH is all she's got.
I need to post some pictures of the finished product.
It is rock solid stable at all speeds, has a cruising speed 70 MPH.
Can't name any names, but the man who has driven more
Donzi's than anyone else on the planet, (only guy to have driven more than me) said " this is the best and fastest 22 classic I have ever driven!" He literally let go of the wheel at wide open throttle.
No porpoising issues, no chine walk......just rock solid and fly’s straight and level. The acceleration is phenomenal! The entire hull running surface was cored with 3/4" corecell and then vacuum bagged. Then 5 layers of 1808 X and S
glass laid over it all, including the huge stringers. All of this was done to accommodate the over powering of the Ilmor 710. The boat was literally built around the engine. So many things had to be taken into consideration as far as engine fit and clearances. It uses a custom fabricated solid engine mount system, metal fuel tank with a fuel return and tons of other engineering challenges I can't go into. Please keep in mind this was a 2 year project and everything was a challenge.

I did not build it to be the fastest 22, but more of a custom concept boat with emphasis on fit and finish.
In the engine room all you see is custom Viper blue diamond plate and engine.
No wires, hoses or cables.....there all hidden.
I had the best of the best people in the industry help me with this project.
From lay up to paint to upholstery to rigging.....it is super trick and custom.
I hope to get it out where you all can see it in person soon.
I have to state that this entire project was a private endeavour and no company had any direct involvement. :wink:
Thanks for the interest.

[glashole]

so........


what next?

[roadtrip se]

He brings it to AOTH 9 this spring... best place to show it off...

[The Hedgehog]

103 on N.A., excellent handling and finished to the max. That's pretty cool. Nice work. I can't wait to see pics.

[Marlin275]

, has a cruising speed 70 MPH.

This is the HEADLINE !

[SilverBack]

Ted......103!!!.....WOW......rpms?...prop?....X?.. .....give us some performance details!!

Congratulations!!!!

[BigGrizzly]

So Mr Smith liked it and you do to. A long hard pull but I am sure it was worth it to you I know mine was worth it to me. Of course you have don it on a much grander scale but I expect this of you. Thats who YOU are.

[smokediver]

Great Job Ted ! Awesome work ... As usual ...:yes::yes::yes:

[need for speed]

very cool:wink:

[BigGrizzly]

You know Ted you always do such a clean neat job on everything that it is just run of the mill for you. It is expected of you. Most don't under the complacent 103 mph statement you made, They don't remember you already did it before on the old 22 classic. Just so you all know ted has the tee shirt been there done that.

[Mr X]

Thank you all for the replies and compliments, it truly meens alot to me that
the Donzi family has such good things to say about my project.
Happy holidays to you all!!

[Carl C]

Congratulations. I thought you were having problems and didn't want to pry. :)

[osur866]

Very Very nice :rlol: you have raised the bar, again :thumbsup: Steve

[hot shot]

I'm with the other scott.... what a package:thewave:

[Donziweasel]

Absolutly amazing. :nilly::nilly::nilly::nilly::nilly::nilly::nilly:

You are da MAN!

[BUIZILLA]

Ted, you have raised the bar to a level we can never top...

awesome work man :shades:

[Last Real Texan]

Solid...Congrats

Tex

[Air 22]

Ted...Nice job!...Well done:wink: Luv to see that in person sometime...:yes:

[roadtrip se]

Ted...Nice job!...Well done:wink: Luv to see that in person sometime...:yes:

A lot of us would like to see this in person.

[txtaz]

Awesome job Ted. I know your work very well. Just let me know when this one goes up for sale.

Da Taz

[Greg Maier]

Ted,

I saw the post where you talked about coring the running surface on the IL 22. Did you put the core in and then put stringers on top of the sandwich, or did you have the stringers in place already and put the sandwich in between the stringers?

Thanks

[Mr X]

Greg,
larger stringers down first, then coring in between.

[Greg Maier]

Thanks Ted,

Makes sense. Did you reinforce the hull sides or just leave them alone?

[Mr X]

Greg,
yes the hull sides have 1 additional layer. (1808 X)

[Lenny]

Ted, the Ilmor 22 is definately your finest piece to date. :yes:

I also can not see you topping it anytime soon :D

[The Hedgehog]

Now, back to the topic,

I sure would love to see some more pics of the Ilmore 22. It is a very cool boat. Where are they? For all I know they may be buried in this post.

[txtaz]

Thank you Sir.

Anonymous