Is Donzi asleep at the wheel ?

[RickyR]

I am now hearing more and more horror stories about Donzi lately. It seems that the "bashers" are working overtime on Donzi.
I guess the classic style boats don't catch too much heat, but this thread looks like it is going to get worse for the fish boats.

http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=173827&posts=4

If this is true, resale of the 38's may be non-existant, and that may work down the line.
We have yet to put " Donzi" on our boat. :bonk:
Or, maybe it is just a "fish " thing?

Ricky

[vonkamp]

Most "bashers" usually have a product or agenda they would like to push. Many years ago I stopped by a Marina & Donzi dealer to check out what they had. Of course a salesman was quick to point out the great quality and attention to detail that goes into a Donzi. A few years later, I drive by the marina and now there is a Baja banner out there. I stop in again and the same salesman approaches. I asked him why the switch and he says: "Well Donzi has quality problems and the stepped hulls are a complete failure, junk boats, bla bla bla"...
I was able to tour the Donzi factory a few months ago and I can tell you it's a first class, top quality organization. At the time there were very few classics in work and the focus was fishing boats.

BTW, that Contender on the link is SWEET!! :yes::yes:

[VetteLT193]

I can tell you personal experience: Donzi has horrible customer service.

I need the bottom half of the engine hatch latch for my Minx. This is a product still on the new classics today... I wrote Donzi back and forth, including (but certainly not limited to) pictures. I was told to fab something myself (again, for a part they make and should sell). The customer service rep was proud to say he owns a Stingray boat and what he did to make some latch for it.

Donzi has a huge following, all they have to do is hire some people that actually like to use and own the boats they build... 98% of the people on this site know more than Donzi customer service does.

[need for speed]

I can tell you personal experience: Donzi has horrible customer service.
I need the bottom half of the engine hatch latch for my Minx. This is a product still on the new classics today... I wrote Donzi back and forth, including (but certainly not limited to) pictures. I was told to fab something myself (again, for a part they make and should sell). The customer service rep was proud to say he owns a Stingray boat and what he did to make some latch for it.
Donzi has a huge following, all they have to do is hire some people that actually like to use and own the boats they build... 98% of the people on this site know more than Donzi customer service does.
I can go with HORRIBLE!! I had a few of my own calls into DONZI this week and if I where not in love with the classic I would put the thing up for sale... let's leave it at that.! My blood pressure has not come down form my last few calls~!!

[vonkamp]

Yea, I gave up on calling CS years ago. They dont care to help out with older Donzi questions at all.

Post a pic of the latch. I bet someone here has what you need.

[gcarter]

I can tell you personal experience: Donzi has horrible customer service.
I need the bottom half of the engine hatch latch for my Minx. This is a product still on the new classics today... I wrote Donzi back and forth, including (but certainly not limited to) pictures. I was told to fab something myself (again, for a part they make and should sell). The customer service rep was proud to say he owns a Stingray boat and what he did to make some latch for it.
Donzi has a huge following, all they have to do is hire some people that actually like to use and own the boats they build... 98% of the people on this site know more than Donzi customer service does.
Call Jamie at lakeside, he can help. You may have to buy a whole latch though. Anyway he can help.

[roadtrip se]

for expressing my opinions on how Donzi goes about their business in today's world. I will also say that it seems to be endemic to the marine business as a whole from my experience.

There are a few exceptions, like Cobalt, Mastercraft, and Formula, which are run like great companies, typically with a family hand involved somewhere.
Alas, not typical.

I do have a hard time swallowing the fact that they could not help with a current model hatch latch piece. Maybe, they never heard more than the "Minx" part, which is a miss. I have called in for parts over the past few years for my 2001 22 and typically get what I want without much fuss.

As for the older boats, I think our expectations are a little high here. Why would a company in the business of producing new boats have any clue about something they produced twenty years ago? Relating to the auto business, we don't call Ford looking for parts for that classic Boss Mustang, so I think it is a bit much to lean on Donzi in this area.

By the way, they do read these pages, so if somebody has a legit gripe, let's have some specifics and I bet it will get addressed, if they have a LEGIT beef and are frustrated with Donzi CS. Stuff like this has regressed to axe-grinding in the past, so please don't subject us to this kind of thing again, please.

[Lenny]

we don't call Ford looking for parts for that classic Boss Mustang


I bet you have, ... :yes: ... oh, oops, hang on, that one is a 2002 :D

[chappy]

Call Jamie at lakeside, he can help. You may have to buy a whole latch though. Anyway he can help.

That's where I got my latch from. Very easily.

Rich

[VetteLT193]

for expressing my opinions on how Donzi goes about their business in today's world. I will also say that it seems to be endemic to the marine business as a whole from my experience.
There are a few exceptions, like Cobalt, Mastercraft, and Formula, which are run like great companies, typically with a family hand involved somewhere.
Alas, not typical.
I do have a hard time swallowing the fact that they could not help with a current model hatch latch piece. Maybe, they never heard more than the "Minx" part, which is a miss. I have called in for parts over the past few years for my 2001 22 and typically get what I want without much fuss.
As for the older boats, I think our expectations are a little high here. Why would a company in the business of producing new boats have any clue about something they produced twenty years ago? Relating to the auto business, we don't call Ford looking for parts for that classic Boss Mustang, so I think it is a bit much to lean on Donzi in this area.
By the way, they do read these pages, so if somebody has a legit gripe, let's have some specifics and I bet it will get addressed, if they have a LEGIT beef and are frustrated with Donzi CS. Stuff like this has regressed to axe-grinding in the past, so please don't subject us to this kind of thing again, please.

If new Formula's didn't cost a billion dollars (to me) I think that's what I'd have.

gcarter, I'm writing lakeside... Thanks again for all your help!

[RickyR]

I have been to the plant and saw first hand that they build a nice product, but if there isn't someone taking care of the small things, the flaws are maginfied for the world and internet to find.
I have no axe to grind here, I love my boat, and have had good customer support with the parts I needed.

Most people don't remember the good stuff anymore..

Here is another example:
This is my closest dealer http://www.coastalmarinecenter.net/ their website doesn't have ANYTHING stating that they are a Donzi dealer.
That's F'ed up.

Also, what happened to Haskell Marine? They were HUGE Donzi supporters. Now, they are no longer a dealer ??? I could call them and ask, but I may not want to know.

You gotta have a dealer network that is promoting your product...
These are just 2 examples. Who knows, I may be just finding the weakness.

Just so y'all know, this isn't attack Donzi week, but product re-sale, and customer support is what keeps this type of business going.

[smokediver]

i think every boat maker has had problems .. contender had a serious stringer problem , fountain had a problem with wet transoms , baja ... well:bonk: .. i think cs is most important and how the builder is willing to stand behind the product and make it right .. i know fountain did the right thing although i am sure there are other horror stories .. contender was on the ball as well ... seems there are a lot of grumblings about donzi and they really need to take a look at that entity in the company ...

[BUIZILLA]

I have always found it odd that DONZI seems to jump around with dealer representation, and if a dealer jumps from the family, it has usually, not always, been because of DONZI factory support, warranty coverage (or lack thereof) or customer service handling issues. Some dealers jump after a year or two. This is an *inside* issue. My dad always said, that in business if you take care of the inside the outside takes care of itself. This seems to be the Cobalt, Four Winns, Formula, and Mastercraft theme of success. I don't think any boat manufacturer has the distribution/sales loyalty that Formula has, and that in itself speaks volumes for success. If the marine industry had a watchdog like the automotive lemon laws we have, virtually 20% of the hull builders would be gone in 3 years...

[Cuda]

I read on another boating site that that Donzi fishboats were actually built at the Pro Line facility in New Port Richey. I'd never heard that before. Is there any validity to this?

[Cuda]

I've had three Formulas, and if they built something that was along the lines of the 22 Classic, I'd probably have one of those. Formula's customer service cannot be topped. I've called them before about a 25 year old boat part, and even though they no longer had it in stock, they put me in touch with who they used to buy it from. You'd be surprised how many older parts you can still buy right from Formula. I don't know how many years Robert Nelem (MagicFloat on here) has been a Formula dealer, but it's a long, long, time. Robert is a straight shooter, and he would not have carried the Formula line this long, if they had poor cs. Robert himself will sometimes call Formula to find a part for your older Formula.

Scott Porter was impressed with Debbie's Formula tatoo, when we met him at the Miami Boat Show in 2002. :)

[Ranman]

I read on another boating site that that Donzi fishboats were actually built at the Pro Line facility in New Port Richey. I'd never heard that before. Is there any validity to this?

Not sure. Last time I was at the factory, there were a few Pro Line models built at Donzi in Sarasota. I think there were a few Donzis and Prolines that were identical except for the badging.

[p729lws]

Donzi and Pro-Line are both owned by American Marine Holdings Inc, right?

Dan

[vonkamp]

I read on another boating site that that Donzi fishboats were actually built at the Pro Line facility in New Port Richey. I'd never heard that before. Is there any validity to this?

I was at the Donzi factory in August. There were more ZF's on the line than anything else (including one VERY sweet 43'). :yes: :cool:

[Donzigo]

Cuda, I can also say the same thing about the Formula customer service. 20 years ago, I bought a small 21 footer from Formula and after the warranty was up, the fuel tank had a leak. I called them and simply asked who or where to get one and the factory rep asked me several questions and then said: "Yeah, we've had a few problems with that tank and we're gonna have one built and sent to you at N/C". I couldn't beleive it. Yeah, they are definatley customer service oriented.

I went by the local Baja dealer a while back and the salesmen there were quick to point out that Donzi had a problem keeping a dealer in the area. What he didn't tell me (which I already knew) is that the "local dealer" he pointed out had gone out of the marine business and had sold his property to a developer. The new Donzi dealer has been around since then and has a nice selection of product.

As far as Donzi in Sarasota taking care of every little item requested by the public, they don't make a lot of money or get much thanks for the little stuff; so, they probably just let it go. When it comes to latches, parts, and other hard to find stuff, I usually have them made by JTR in Gulfport, close to my house. My Donzi is 20 years old and very little is available from the original sources, anymore.

[VetteLT193]

I read on another boating site that that Donzi fishboats were actually built at the Pro Line facility in New Port Richey. I'd never heard that before. Is there any validity to this?

I don't think so. I could see this being the case for a model or two, if they were the same, but the Donzi hulls are all stepped and Pro-Line doesn't make anything like that. It seems like they are doing their best to make a separate product line.

[DonziChick]

A friend of mine just called Formula customer service and was not happy at all with how they treated him. He has a 27' Indy 500 edition Formula and the headliner in the cabin is falling down. He is not a do-it-yourself kind of guy and wanted to know where/what/how etc. Apparently the customer service rep could not give him any useful information and were rude to him.


Do any of you recall hearing about Carl and Pattie's (AtomicTan) problems with Donzi? They bought a brand new 22' Donzi a few years ago and it was having spiderweb cracks all over the place. Donzi took the boat back and put their engine and upholstry in a brand new hull for them.

[VetteLT193]

And speaking of Pro-line: I just checked out their web site and it actually has good information, a working online shop for clothes etc., and easy to use. I still can't figure out how Donzi's web site got so screwed up.

[Cuda]

Cuda, I can also say the same thing about the Formula customer service. 20 years ago, I bought a small 21 footer from Formula and after the warranty was up, the fuel tank had a leak. I called them and simply asked who or where to get one and the factory rep asked me several questions and then said: "Yeah, we've had a few problems with that tank and we're gonna have one built and sent to you at N/C". I couldn't beleive it. Yeah, they are definatley customer service oriented.
I went by the local Baja dealer a while back and the salesmen there were quick to point out that Donzi had a problem keeping a dealer in the area. What he didn't tell me (which I already knew) is that the "local dealer" he pointed out had gone out of the marine business and had sold his property to a developer. The new Donzi dealer has been around since then and has a nice selection of product.

Thunder Marine at Bay Pines? I haven't been by there for a while.

[Cuda]

A friend of mine just called Formula customer service and was not happy at all with how they treated him. He has a 27' Indy 500 edition Formula and the headliner in the cabin is falling down. He is not a do-it-yourself kind of guy and wanted to know where/what/how etc. Apparently the customer service rep could not give him any useful information and were rude to him.
.

That's highly unusual. Are you sure your freind wasn't rude first? Did they contact the TAG division (I think that's the name of it). Contact Magicfloat on here. He has been a Formula dealer for a long, long time. He may be able to direct you to exactly who should be contacted.

[BUIZILLA]

if my post whore memory is correct, Magicfloat championed the loose headliner cause and got Formula on the stick for several repairs, for not only his customers, but others as well..

[Formula Jr]

My long time query as been: Why are they not sponsors of this board? It can't cost that damn much.

It makes one wonder: All this free info, all these good times and events being offered to Donzi owners, and Donzi fever evangelcalisim, off loads their sales force. Yet, no sponsorship?

They could be addressing issues with builds and QC here first. Right now, all free to them.

Formula, aside from the rare story of bad customer service, seems to give their people more discression to do interesting things. A friend of mine, who owns a 37 footer Formula, wanted a leather jacket with the Formula Logo and his boat on the back. He just called them up, and two weeks later he gets this leather jacket that was sent with an option to buy, he could return it. I think it was $80 or so; about Cost to make it to Formula. But they understood this would be worn to all the major boats shows, by someone who loved his boat and is in the trade. $80 bucks and they have a free roaming sales person......

This may have been an isolated case. But here I am telling it to you, because it impresssed me. Thats good marketing.

The internet has changed everything. Word-of-mouth is the new/old vector.

The boat shows I go to, I invariablty end up being a free sales person for the roto-molded , genmar designes. I sort of take over because I believe in the product and its future, and usually know more than the guy running the booth. But then again, I might just be a jerk to the booth owner.

By the way, I would love to get paid for that, if Genmar is reading here. It isn't even work, and I can't stop doing it......its too easy...

[Sweet little 16]

reading this thread I think formula should sponsor the board???? :boggled::yes::tongue:

[DonziChick]

That's highly unusual. Are you sure your freind wasn't rude first? Did they contact the TAG division (I think that's the name of it). Contact Magicfloat on here. He has been a Formula dealer for a long, long time. He may be able to direct you to exactly who should be contacted.

It was FormulaOne on my site. He's a little impatient but generally very polite

[bewitched]

I just spent the weekend at the Annapolis Boatshow, showing a new 38 ZSF, and the big 38 ZFX. There was also a new 27 ZR there.
A friend of mine that just opened a new Donzi/ProLine dealership, and he asked if I could give a hand.

As someone relatively new to the brand, I was impressed w/ the boats. I spoke w/ the rep for awhile, and Donzi is working on becoming more focused on producing a quality sportfisher. Although they could use some more sensible features for a serious fisherman, it's my understanding that they are aware of their shortcomings (the small ones I speak of, not the structural ones the "he-said-she-said's" like to spout) and are moving key personnel around in the organization to better attend to it.
The problem w/ the fishing boats is that, and at their own admission, most folks at Donzi don't fish.
In looking at the boats, I did not find structural shortcomings, and the rep seemed genuinely interested in our feedback.

On the topic of customer service, I think any large company is going to be tougher to deal with than one that's more of a "family" business.
And since we're dealing w/ big ticket items that tend to get us emotional, we demand service that sometimes is very difficult to deliver.
I understand that it should be as easy as a phone call, and the person on the other line may truly care, but when you're dealing w/ "holding companies", unfortunately it will happen.
Also on the topic od customer service,we have a Proline 35 Express here in the shop, that a trucker tried to fit under a railway overpass. She didn't fit.
I called ProLine trying to get some info, and learned that the boat was actually built for ProLine by Donzi, and I'd have to contact them.
I called Donzi, where the gentleman I spoke to (can't remember his name)said, although he had no idea, he'd find out. He went out to the production crew, found someone that had been there during the time that the boat was built(it isn't new), and called me back w/ detailed info w/in an hour.
Very nice.

And the bashers will bash.
There's also a thread on the hull truth right now about a newer Fountain w/ raw ply exposed, poorly sealed below waterline fittings, and other fairly surprising issues. Especially surprising considering the price they command.

Another recent thread was concerning gelcoat cracks in the motorwell of Contenders. Contender definitely enjoys a cult following, so that thread was quickly responded to by many saying no big deal.
I struggled with that. I may be mistaken, but I think Contender still uses ply as coring for their transom. Cracks over a wood core, I would think, would be cause for concern. Especially considering the fact that a Contenders' warranty is non-transferable.

So, along with many companies struggling to make it during this difficult time, I think Donzi is doing the best they can. (BTW, that 38ZSF is a runnin' macheen)
And I think even though they still have some work cut out for them, they're doing a pretty good job.
And we all know there's no perfect boat.
Sorry for the long response, but what I guess I'm trying to say is, try not to let the internet alarmists get to you.
There's plenty of "perfect" boats out there having their problems. I think alot of people keep it on the DL because they don't want anyone to think they dropped big jingle on a POS.

[Donziweasel]

i have never dealt with donzi cs, so i really have nothing to add. i would like to see them expand their dealership network. the nearest one is over 1000 miles away. many manufactures have dealerships in idaho falls, only 90 miles away, and those that don't, have one in salt lake city 300 miles away. i would love to see one in denver or slc. maybe one day.

although i have never dealt with donzi cs, i do remember the "blister boat" saga a few years back. it seemed that although donzi was clearly wrong,they stubbornly refused to fix the boat. through the power of the internet exposure, i think the guy finally got it fixed, but went through hell to get it done. after reading the whole saga and documentation to support the guys claim, i was not real impressed with the cs. granted it was the guys perspective and i never heard donzi's side of it.

[VetteLT193]

....
The problem w/ the fishing boats is that, and at their own admission, most folks at Donzi don't fish.....

To me that is a major problem, and sums up all the issues at Donzi.

I don't think most people at Donzi own, or have ever owned a Donzi... If they want to make a good fishing boat, hire some fisherman. It's not like fishing is a new hobby. If they want to make a good Donzi in general, hire some Donzi enthusiasts... There are plenty of us to fill the factory 10x over.

[gold-n-rod]

although i have never dealt with donzi cs, i do remember the "blister boat" saga a few years back. it seemed that although donzi was clearly wrong,they stubbornly refused to fix the boat. through the power of the internet exposure, i think the guy finally got it fixed, but went through hell to get it done. after reading the whole saga and documentation to support the guys claim, i was not real impressed with the cs. granted it was the guys perspective and i never heard donzi's side of it.

I was about to pull the trigger on a Donzi at the time of the "bb" fiasco. Of course, it caused me to pause. I wrote Donzi and got a personal reply from Steve Simon. He reassurred me that that there were 2 sides to the story, as I'm sure there were.

From there, I went on to purchase a Donzi (albeit a couple of years later). The personal response is what cinched it for me. I regret that Steve's not here to hear of me enjoying my Donzi.

[Donziweasel]

personally, whether it is boats, cars, etc.... everyone will probably have a bad customer service experience at one time or another. i know i have had them, from fords to chebby's. if it becomes the norm rather than the exception, then a company does have a problem.

the last thing i heard about donzi cs was the 22's with stringer problems equipped with 502's or 496 mags. i think the general consensus was that donzi handled the problem professionally and responsibly. i think all the people who had the problems and alerted donzi to the fact were very satisfied with the response and repairs.

as far as blister boat, i was not a member of donzi.net yet so i don't really know the consensus of the members. it was entertaining to read the guy and donzi going back and forth. i must admit, the guy had a lot of documentation to back up his claims, including independent reports from marine surveyors and insurance companies. he even had the nuts to post donzi's letters of reply. i wasn't interested in 25 zx's, which if i remember right, was the boat. i stick to the classics.

i will say that everyone looks for something different in a fishing boat. when i lived in charleston sc i did a lot of offshore fishing. we had to go 55 miles to hit the gulfstream. i would have gladly sacrificed a little "fishability" for pure speed. a grady white is a great fishing boat, but will never get you those 55 miles as fast as a donzi. one year there was a kingfishing tournament in st. augustine. a donzi owner won it because he was able to travel past jacksonville to his "secret" spot to fish. the only way he pulled it off was due to how fast his donzi was able to run there and back.

man, i am getting damn good at this left hand typing!

[RickyR]

Since it came back to fishing, I didn't buy my 35 for fishing, but because it has more uses for me than a sport boat. If I do decide to get back into fishing, this boat needs to have a few things modified. It is clear that a non-fisherman designed some of the things on my boat. I won't get into it, but no homework was done, and they didn't change anything on today's 35 either. Still asleep at the wheel ???
But also, if I do get back into fishing, I do have one bad ass ride for the 50+ mile trip (each way).
You're right Weasel, it can make for a long day. I used to own an old 41' Hatteras with 8-53's, talk about slow.... 16-18 knots, but that was in ANYTHING !!!!!

I also guess since the company has changed hands so many times, I guess they could always say it was the past owners??

My wife and I love our boat, but if/when it comes to make a move, I hope Donzi's reputation (at that time) will be in favor.

Ricky

[bewitched]

To respond for the obvious market for fast CC's that fish well, Donzi has brought personnel from the Pro-Line side of things.
I will say the new 38 ZSF I was on was pretty impressive, and fairly well thought out. With a variety of foredeck options, it wouldn't take much to be considered a serious tourney boat.

Plus, w/ trip 275 Verado's and 300 gallons of fuel on, she still ran 71 MPH.
Niiice.:cool!:

[Cuda]

On some of the fishing forums, many people will swear by their Donzis. The 38 in particular. I see a lot of them running up I-95 between Daytona, and Jax, probably headed to tournaments.

[Donziweasel]

ricky- i am glad someone else knows how far a run it is out to the gulfstream in a 18 knot sport fisher like a buddy davis from charleston. makes for a long day.

just to throw out an interesting concept- one of the fastest growing markets in fishing boats seems to be the "bay boat". this is usually a somewhat flat bottom boat with enough v for coastal fishing in the 16 to 20 ft range. they usually have a 12 inch or less draft on a plane, shallow enough to chase redfish and trout, but enough v to chase tarpon, etc... in chop. not a true flats boat. they are trailerable, affordable, quick, and with the right 4 stroke outboard, affordable to operate. families like them and i have even seen people waterski behind them. my father in law has a 19 ft one in mobile al and i have to admit, it is a cool little boat!

http://www.maverickboats.com/pathfinder/specs/2000.htm

could donzi incorporate some classic hull features and come up with something for this market? not really donzi's style, but this is a hot market right now. plus, a bay boat that said donzi on the side would be pretty cool!

[VetteLT193]

ricky- i am glad someone else knows how far a run it is out to the gulfstream in a 18 knot sport fisher like a buddy davis from charleston. makes for a long day.
just to throw out an interesting concept- one of the fastest growing markets in fishing boats seems to be the "bay boat". this is usually a somewhat flat bottom boat with enough v for coastal fishing in the 16 to 20 ft range. they usually have a 12 inch or less draft on a plane, shallow enough to chase redfish and trout, but enough v to chase tarpon, etc... in chop. not a true flats boat. they are trailerable, affordable, quick, and with the right 4 stroke outboard, affordable to operate. families like them and i have even seen people waterski behind them. my father in law has a 19 ft one in mobile al and i have to admit, it is a cool little boat!
http://www.maverickboats.com/pathfinder/specs/2000.htm
could donzi incorporate some classic hull features and come up with something for this market? not really donzi's style, but this is a hot market right now. plus, a bay boat that said donzi on the side would be pretty cool!

They could knock off the 17 foot pro line, that fits the category...

But, it seems the style of boat that is really gaining market share is the twin vee style. My boss has this one: http://www.twinvee.com/CenterConsoles/19BayCatAftDeck/tabid/73/Default.aspx

It is the best all around fishing boat if you like to go out on calm days and stay in on rough ones. You can get into the flats (9" draft) and it still takes the waves pretty well.

[bewitched]

Well DWeazel, not a donzi, and a little bigger but

http://www.prolineboats.com/UserDyn/ProLine/bayseries/23xs/det23bayxs2.jpg

Maybe, if these take off, Donzi will follow suit. Maybe put a step in it?
We showed one of these last week too, and it was pretty slick.
23', 250 Verado