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DONZI
10-03-2007, 08:02 PM
Add another one to the line up !:)
I've been busy the last couple of wks.. It was time for a switch from the Alpha system to an Arneson set up on my 1987 22 Classic. The goal was to gain Hyd. Steering,easy shifting and an all round stronger system.

Plan A, Was to use the stock coupler with the stock ft. mounts and a mid-mount engine mount. After installing the engine/trans. I found out the Ext. box was designed for the Arneson coupler use only.

Plan B,Ordered Arneson coupler,Offshore Ft. mount,Arneson rear transom mount.
Then found out the Rear transom mount did not match my Ext.box. Bolt pattern,overall length etc..My stuff is an earlier edition. Then the trick was to center the mount to the drive.This would locate coupler angle,engine height etc..Then add a piece to the bottom of the mount.Then fabricate mounting plates for the Ft. Offshore mounts.
Then order special flange from Huber Marine for the trans to coupler.
A special Thank You to Jeff Hall for some of his R&D info also !:yes:
Here are some pics. of the project. Sea trials this wk. end !:boat:
Enjoy!:)
http://thumb15.webshots.net/t/68/68/3/63/96/2769363960101021175YAkSho_th.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2769363960101021175YAkSho)

BUIZILLA
10-03-2007, 08:09 PM
did you REALLY think I wouldn't ask about that blower motor in the background... come on now...... fess up...

DONZI
10-03-2007, 08:13 PM
:)
did you REALLY think I wouldn't ask about that blower motor in the background... come on now...... fess up...
:) That's for the one under the cover.:convertib:

BUIZILLA
10-03-2007, 08:16 PM
so take the damm cover off :yes: :shades:

MOP
10-03-2007, 10:21 PM
I doubt if Kenny is putting a blown mouse ahead of the Adrive! Ken that looks like it is a bronze unit is that correct? I have seen bronze on larger ones but not on an ADS6, will be very interested in the results.

Phil

Dr. Dan
10-04-2007, 06:42 AM
:eek!:Wow...Kenny.... bring it over to Lake George this weekend...a few of us are doing the Lake George Powerboat Fall Run.

Looks like a serious addition....not sure about that prop...that looks different... keep us posted.


Good Luck

Doc

VetteLT193
10-04-2007, 09:28 AM
Looks awesome. LOA about 30 feet now :eek!: I can't wait to hear test results!

DON N.
10-04-2007, 09:48 AM
That Looks Great Ken, Can't Wait To See It. I'm Also With Jim "whats" Under That Cover.

DONZI
10-04-2007, 05:40 PM
so take the damm cover off :yes: :shades: Jim- Here ya go ! My 1937 Topolino future Rod project.

I doubt if Kenny is putting a blown mouse ahead of the Adrive! Ken that looks like it is a bronze unit is that correct? I have seen bronze on larger ones but not on an ADS6, will be very interested in the results.
PhilPhil, Yes Bronze.

:eek!:Wow...Kenny.... bring it over to Lake George this weekend...a few of us are doing the Lake George Powerboat Fall Run.
Looks like a serious addition....not sure about that prop...that looks different... keep us posted.
Good Luck
DocThanks Dan. I need to complete my shake down runs before any trips. Yes, Propping this will be the final challenge. Of course final power choice will have to be built & dyno'd 1st.:wink:
It looks like a great wk .end for the run. Have fun,be safe.

Looks awesome. LOA about 30 feet now :eek!: I can't wait to hear test results!Thanks V.
The wife said i couldn"t buy a bigger boat with 2 kids in college. Sooo, i had to extend this one !:)

That Looks Great Ken, Can't Wait To See It. I'm Also With Jim "whats" Under That Cover.Thanks Don ! It's the Rod project everyone ask's me "When are you going to stop working on that Boat and start your car ?":)

vonkamp
10-04-2007, 07:55 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_Topolino

WOW!!!:eek: You have some serious structural work to do huh.

MOP
10-05-2007, 08:00 AM
Ken the 500 Belvedere would have been a much better choice to the grocery shopping:cool!:

DONZI
10-06-2007, 03:54 PM
I picked an area that i thought would be safe & secure in R.I. for my Day 1 of testing.
Yes,the very own Bay X that Outerlimit Power boats do there private testing also. After completing some early testing. It was time for a food break in Bristol R.I.. Just after leaving the Dock, i hear "Hey Kenny" coming from a small incognitto boat. I notice the passengers quickly storing away electronics, special vison equip. etc
Well if it isn't a well known Donzi employee aboard ??:):) Hmmmn !:wink: Before i realize what's happening, i have 2 onboard. One diverting me with conversation about how they are in town for a Wedding today.Mean while, this skinny guy is deep inside my bilge.(i swear he had a hidden camera in there):yes:. Then hanging over the transom. The next thing i know we are running all over Bayxthrowing water everywhere with the skinny guy behind the wheel ! I can hear him muttering under his breath "This is ground breaking territory right here".:lightning
I have his picture here. Watch for these Donzi guys. They can find you anywhere !:)

All in All it was a great day. It's a learning curve driving an Arneson. They were no speed records broken, but it performed well. I still have some more things to play with and that to me is the fun of it. I wound up removing the top Fin and going to replace it with a bottom one. This i suspected would be needed anyway.
When you make a Trim adj. the drive actually angles.Like you are strg. it. So,you need to counter steer at the same time. I will take a vid later to demonstrate the geometry of this.The surprise Donzi Rep.visitor:) felt there was a lot of prop torque going on also.Creating a need to counter steer.I took on some good size cruiser wakes w/ a lighter fuel load later in the day. I was surprised how the Boat really acted like it was bigger than what it is.
Enjoy the pics..
http://inlinethumb07.webshots.com/20550/2915438150101021175S425x425Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2915438150101021175nARElc)
Ken -"I can't hide anywhere":)

Lenny
10-06-2007, 07:06 PM
How about "bow lift" ? Were you able to create any??? 87.9 miles of travelling. Great, but what speeds were you seeing with the A drive as opposed to normally configured as reference?

I believe Chris has something quite similar stored somewhere and red... :D

Also, what year is the boat? That looks like an '87 or so LE (Limited Edition) of a black 22 ???

tiger lily
10-07-2007, 08:52 PM
the rooster tails alone that surface drives throw make it worth while, awesome

MOP
10-07-2007, 09:40 PM
Ken what kind of power is ahead the Adrive? Give us some more poop on the whole setup!

DONZI
10-08-2007, 08:45 AM
How about "bow lift" ? Were you able to create any??? 87.9 miles of travelling. Great, but what speeds were you seeing with the A drive as opposed to normally configured as reference?
I believe Chris has something quite similar stored somewhere and red... :D
Also, what year is the boat? That looks like an '87 or so LE (Limited Edition) of a black 22 ???
Hi Lenny,Has some bow lift.I am in need of more and a lil squirrely when over trimmed. So i think the lower fin will cure both.Speed i believe is also faultering because of this.About 5 to 7 mph down at this time.Again Day 1!
Yes,1987 LE. Chris's 22 has been part my inspiration from the start.
It was great to have him on the very 1st shakedown run and he's a lot of fun !
the rooster tails alone that surface drives throw make it worth while, awesomeYes,and the Hyd.Strg.,shifting and reliabity factors have made it worth it to me.Also i was able put this together with used componets.

Ken what kind of power is ahead the Adrive? Give us some more poop on the whole setup!
Hey Phil,
1987 22 Classic, Test mule 454/330 H.P. W/ only 740 hrs.:eek!:on it.B/W 1721 Drop box 1.32 ratio,Velvet drive 1.1,Current test prop 16x 23P
Any short shaft 19 spline props out there ??:)

The Hedgehog
10-08-2007, 09:01 AM
Very nice. This will be one to follow. I love to see Donzi owners goin in to new territory.

mrfixxall
10-08-2007, 10:31 AM
yeppers! i have three of them,,2 16x21 4 blade(paired wont sep) and a 17 x27 L 4 blade..

http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=37016&page=3

yeller
10-08-2007, 11:28 AM
87.9 miles of travelling.
That one caught me at first. I didn't enlarge the pic and thought it was 87.9mph. :bonk:


About 5 to 7 mph down at this time.Down from the stock setup, or down from what you expected?

DONZI
10-08-2007, 11:48 AM
Very nice. This will be one to follow. I love to see Donzi owners goin in to new territory.Thanks B.G ZX !

yeppers! i have three of them,,2 16x21 4 blade(paired wont sep) and a 17 x27 L 4 blade..

http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=37016&page=3Sent ya a P.M. !

That one caught me at first. I didn't enlarge the pic and thought it was 87.9mph. :bonk:
Down from the stock setup, or down from what you expected?
Hi Yeller,
Yes Miles travelled ! Wasn't trying to imply anything with the pic. other than a good days outing with no problems after major surgery.:)
MPH,Down from previous set-up Alpha SS W/Sternjack.
Here's a Youtube demo of the strg. geometry.The drive is simply being raised and lowered in the Vid. It's a lil tricky to adj. trim at speed. You learn to trim & counter steer in small increments.It caught me off guard the 1st few times tho.:eek!:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb-pJKdQiTs

VetteLT193
10-08-2007, 12:16 PM
That seems like a really crazy design. Is it because of where the steering ram is attached?

Air 22
10-08-2007, 12:48 PM
Ken...Very Nice:yes: Keep us posted on the results...speeds and handeling etc...can't wait to see it in LG 2008..:wink: The color RED is just looks great!!!:wink::yes:

roadtrip se
10-08-2007, 01:27 PM
that thing looks to be, Kenny...

I guess I will have to start planning a return trip to Lake George this next spring to see it run out.

I wonder what Haver is going to do when he has roosters coming at him from both sides? Better install windshield wipers Bob.

mrfixxall
10-08-2007, 01:40 PM
Here's a Youtube demo of the strg. geometry.The drive is simply being raised and lowered in the Vid. It's a lil tricky to adj. trim at speed. You learn to trim & counter steer in small increments.

If you add another cylinder to the other side? mabe it will correct your peoblem..or it may brake or bend somthing if the geomtry is off..

Boatless
10-08-2007, 11:32 PM
I don't think, nor have I seen anyone, constantly trim a boat while running so if the trim is set at the proper level, there would not really be a problem would there?

Lenny
10-09-2007, 01:11 AM
This will be our "SPRING" getaway, never been to NYC, never walked it or talked it.

I can NOT wait... :)

Lenny

DONZI
10-09-2007, 05:34 AM
That seems like a really crazy design. Is it because of where the steering ram is attached?
Yes,Here are some pics of the later designs with rams attached lower.

Ken...Very Nice:yes: Keep us posted on the results...speeds and handeling etc...can't wait to see it in LG 2008..:wink: The color RED is just looks great!!!:wink::yes:Thanks Dwight ! I will. The Red seems to be working in traffic quite well !:convertib:

that thing looks to be, Kenny...
I guess I will have to start planning a return trip to Lake George this next spring to see it run out.
I wonder what Haver is going to do when he has roosters coming at him from both sides? Better install windshield wipers Bob. ThanksTodd! I hope to see you as well.I've got some seat time in YELLER FEVER. I don't think he needs to worry about me hosing'em down.:)

Here's a Youtube demo of the strg. geometry.The drive is simply being raised and lowered in the Vid. It's a lil tricky to adj. trim at speed. You learn to trim & counter steer in small increments.
If you add another cylinder to the other side? mabe it will correct your peoblem..or it may brake or bend somthing if the geomtry is off..

I don't think, nor have I seen anyone, constantly trim a boat while running so if the trim is set at the proper level, there would not really be a problem would there?It's just something you need to be aware of. It actually will dart on you with the quick speed of the trim motor.

This will be our "SPRING" getaway, never been to NYC, never walked it or talked it.
I can NOT wait... :)
LennyI look forward to meeting ya Lenny ! :)

HallJ
10-09-2007, 11:29 AM
That seems like a really crazy design. Is it because of where the steering ram is attached?
In the car world it's called bump steer. If you place the inner pivot point of the steering cylinder at the same Z hieght and the same dimension on the X plane While also keeping it parallel from a vertical point of view(looking down at it), it will be eliminated. I believe some of Arneson's newer designs have addressed this problem.
More: http://www.naxja.org/html/techarticles/bumpsteertech.htm
Jeff

VetteLT193
10-09-2007, 12:31 PM
In the car world it's called bump steer. If you place the inner pivot point of the steering cylinder at the same Z hieght and the same dimension on the X plane While also keeping it parallel from a vertical point of view(looking down at it), it will be eliminated. I believe some of Arneson's newer designs have addressed this problem.
More: http://www.naxja.org/html/techarticles/bumpsteertech.htm
Jeff

I was thinking that it was attached to the transom for some reason, and realized that it is fixed mount later. (thinking that he could just move the mount location and fix the problem)

The thing that is a bit confusing to me is with that setup, on twin engine applications you could have each drive pointing in a different direction. Not that it's standard to trim each drive to a different level, but still seems really odd that they ever made it like that. I'm sure you just get used to it and it's no big deal either way.

Boatless
10-09-2007, 07:44 PM
On a twin there is a mechanical tie bar to keep the drive units parrallel. So they cannot be out of sync.

Changing the distance out will not change the arc. Look at arnesons new design. Different geometry.

MOP
10-09-2007, 09:31 PM
Qoute: Hey Phil,
1987 22 Classic, Test mule 454/330 H.P. W/ only 740 hrs.on it.B/W 1721 Drop box 1.32 ratio,Velvet drive 1.1,Current test prop 16x 23P.

Hmmmmmm! Rough guess flat as the hull was riding to achieve 87.9 500+HP is more like it!

Kirbyvv
10-10-2007, 07:02 AM
Nice job Ken, now I know why your boat didn't make it to the Lake George picnic. Looking forward to checking it out at the Dust-Off.

bertsboat
10-05-2015, 12:49 PM
This didn't sell so maybe he will accept an offer.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Arneson-surface-drive-7-complete-setup-with-box-extension-price-reduced-/262026296211?hash=item3d01fbfb93&vxp=mtr