Need stereo upgrade guidance; amp/sub

[Donzi LG]

Hey guys, I'm hoping those with some stereo component knowledge can guide me in adding some power to the sound system in my ZX. Basically, I want to add some "umph" to the sound without going crazy in the decibal or cash dept. I'm thinking of adding an amp and a subwoofer but I have no knowledge of stereo systems anymore. Again, I just want to beef up the sound a little, not looking for an exotic setup. This year I purchased a new Sony head unit and a pair of Sony 6.5s. The stereo model is Sony CDX-R30M and the speakers are Sony model XS-S160CX (Xplod). I'd like to add to this setup.


I've been looking at this amp, a Sony marine model: http://www.xplodsony.com/marine/amplifiers/XM-604M


Also looking into this sub enclosure (model TCE5510D): http://www.mtx.com/caraudio/products/enclosures/TCE5500.cfm

Would these units work well together? Now, can I power both the sub and the existing 6.5 inch speakers with that one amp? Would all speakers route to the amp itself? I really don't know the ins and outs of power amps. I'm thinking of putting the sub up in the cuddy and powering all speakers with this amp if possible. Do you guys think this setup would give me some decent sound? I'm not looking for sheer volume, more to beef up and give body to the existing output. Final setup would be stereo-amp-6.5 speakers-subwoofer. Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated, thanks!

John

[tom freeman]

you may want to try a powered tube subwoofer, the amp is built in. MTX makes them and so does bazooka. they are pretty small and self contained, no cutting.

[mrfixxall]

You really dont need marine speakers because most of them have a coated voice coil and a poly speaker serface..i worked for rockford fosgate in the mid 80,s installing their monster audio systems...

the sony subs your looking at are 6 ohmes and the amp your looking at is rated at 4 ohmes which means that amp wont put enough power to the speaker... if you buy 2 of the subs and mono bridge the amp and parelle the speakers + to + and - to - then this will bring the ohme innpedance down to 3 ohmes which will give you more boom boom but make sure you turn the gains down a tad on the amp so you dont over drive the the woofers and over heat the amp..

the amp your looking at,,i dont like the frequency response for car/ marine audio..a good amp will have a 20-20000 frequency response that one is 10-56000? which will make the speakers sound real muddy and will distort easyier then a anp with 20-20000..you also have to look at the total harmonic distortion per max wattage of the amp,example if the amp puts out 75 watts rms per channel at .01%to .05% total harmonic distortion then you can crank the **** out of the speakers..now if you have a amp that puts out 75 watts rms per channel at .5% total harmonic distortion then you will not be able to crank the **** out of it because it will distort the speakers and will probably blow...

me personally i like infinty speakers,they bump like a sub and have nice crisp highs. ( i got infinty kappa series 3 way's in mine)


amps,,memphis,nice and small and puts out tons of clean crisp power..

pm me if you need help with the wiring..








http://www.infinity.de/car/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=6902M&cat=MAR&ser=MRN&Language=ENG&Country=US&Region=USA

http://www.memphiscaraudio.com/

[tiger lily]

i will 2nd that on the memphis amps!! they are awesome, i have 2 1000 watt amps pushing 4 10" solobarics in my truck, our center console we also have a memphis amp pushing 1 10" in a bandbass box, with 2 6x9's on the side of the console, the system is compact but very very clear and very loud for only 3 speakers, you dont need alot of speakers to make a clear and clean sound system, just the right componets working together

[VetteLT193]

I like the bazooka tube or similar product for ease of installation, and you can get a marine product instead of a car product. Unless your mounting location is REALLY dry, I don't think I'd go with the car equipment. Except for maybe speakers like mrfixxall said... but even a standard car speaker box will be made out of MDF... not the best product in a damp environment.


http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Bazooka-Marine-Sub-Tube-Boat-Subwoofer-MBTA10200-NR_W0QQitemZ110171455267QQihZ001QQcategoryZ32822QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[blackhawk]

I had to start from scratch in the Pantera as there was nothing. I used 4 Infinity Kappa 6.5s(2 ohm speakers) with crossovers hooked to a Profile 1000 watt amp. I also installed 2 Infinity 10" subs wired in parallel to a mono Profile 1000 watt amp. Everything is run in 2 ohms and it rocks. I did a lot of research on the Profile amps and they are a great amp for the money.

[mrfixxall]

I like the bazooka tube or similar product for ease of installation, and you can get a marine product instead of a car product. Unless your mounting location is REALLY dry, I don't think I'd go with the car equipment. Except for maybe speakers like mrfixxall said... but even a standard car speaker box will be made out of MDF... not the best product in a damp environment.
http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Bazooka-Marine-Sub-Tube-Boat-Subwoofer-MBTA10200-NR_W0QQitemZ110171455267QQihZ001QQcategoryZ32822QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


only one problem,,the stuff off of ebay has no warranty:wink:

[blackhawk]

I bought my speakers and amps off ebay, all brand new. I bought my head unit and subs form Crutchfield as they were both on sale. If you buy from a distributor with a store you can still get warranty.

[Jamesbon]

Here's what I did, plain and simple.

One Clarion am/fm/cd player, one Clarion 4 channel 600w amp, 4 6.5' Infinity Kappa 2 way speakers and one non amplified 10" marine Bazooka tube.

I wired all 4 Infinity 6.5's to channels 1&2 on the amp. in series (2 ohm), then bridged channels 3&4 and ran that to the Bazooka tube. It sounds very, very good. Even at full speed with exhaust open you can hear the tunes perfect. She's loud, clear, crisp and pounds bass when I want it to. It's a simple effective, relativey inexpensive system.

And yes, some of the stuff came from Ebay. If it's new, it will carry a manufacturers warranty, so I don't worry much about it...

Hope that helps...

[blackhawk]

I wired all 4 Infinity 6.5's to channels 1&2 on the amp. in series (2 ohm), then bridged channels 3&4 and ran that to the Bazooka tube.

I think you mean parallel correct?

I did something similar in my Donzi. Used one amp and hooked 4 speakers to it and one sub. Put the sub under the bow facing FORWARD and it hit hard. It sounded great and I didn't have a lot of $$$ into it. I used all Sony stuff.

[TXDONZI]

only one problem,,the stuff off of ebay has no warranty:wink:
I have had many relatively nice systems over the years. In all the time and systems I have had I had one component fail with the exception of drivers. The drivers were a Solo Baric 10c after 3 years warranty was most likely out and JL Audio mids in components speaker systems after 2 years. I am sure it was my fault for playing it WFO from Houston to Austin most of the way. The other was a Clarion head unit that the laser went out in. When I inquired about using the warranty I was told ship it back and wait 6-8 weeks. Who is going without tunes for weeks? I went and got a new Alpine the next day. Bottom line I feel warranties are worthless and a waste of the consumers time when it come to car audio equipment. As long as you are getting factor sealed 1st line products in most all cases your going to be ok. The only place you might get an exchange in hand, warranty service is from a big name chain that charges MSRP or more for the same product you can get else where for half the price.

If it blows or smokes replace it!!!
You will still have the same investment you would have and new again not a refurbished they hand you or stick in for you...


Tt

[Jamesbon]

They're wired in series like figure 1A below.

[blackhawk]

They're wired in series like figure 1A below.


Hmmm... I'm confused. Did you use 2 ohm or 4 ohm speakers? Because 4 ohm speakers wired in series would be an 8 ohm load. In parallel it would be a 2 ohm load.

Or were the speakers 2 ohm and you wired them in series to get a 4 ohm load?

[Jamesbon]

Hmmm, I'm not sure what ohm they are, but I did wire them in series. 2 to channel 1 (left side) and 2 to channel 2 (right side) I do know that it ROX though!!

Adding that un-amplified 10" Bazooka made all the difference in the world.

When the tunes are "thumping," the ol'Clarion gets hot to the touch, but keeps on tickin. I like "Tt's" theory, "if it blows or smokes, replace it." :)

[blackhawk]

Hmmm, I'm not sure what ohm they are, but I did wire them in series. 2 to channel 1 (left side) and 2 to channel 2 (right side) I do know that it ROX though!!
Adding that un-amplified 10" Bazooka made all the difference in the world.
When the tunes are "thumping," the ol'Clarion gets hot to the touch, but keeps on tickin. I like "Tt's" theory, "if it blows or smokes, replace it." :)

Well if they are indeed 4 ohm speakers and you wired them in series that would make it an 8ohm load. If you wire them in parallel it will be a 2ohm load. If your amp can support a 2 ohm load it would be MUCH louder that way! Just an FYI ;)

[Donzi LG]

Great comments guys, keep them coming! There's a lot to digest on this topic. Seems like I'm pretty much going after a setup like Jamesbon's. A couple of more questions, any recommendations on which Memphis amp? I checked out their site and there's alot to choose from, I'm not sure which would work in my application. Also, those Bazooka tube woofers, how the heck do you mount them? It would have to go in the cuddy; can they be mounted in an enclosure? I have to admit I find the technical ohm stuff etc. pretty confusing.:bonk: Thanks again for the input, lots to think about!

John

[Jamesbon]

Scott,
I may try wiring them in parallel sometime. They way it's wired now makes your ears hurt after a while... I just use the gain thingy on the amp to fine tune her. Thanks for the tip.

John,
You may have to get creative to mount a 10" Bazooka tube "out of sight" on your boat. In the 22C it's easy... cuz there's so much wasted space in the bow thats out of sight, unless u take the seats out and contourt your body to fit under the deck ;)

What about mounting it in the engine bay?

[mrfixxall]

Well if they are indeed 4 ohm speakers and you wired them in series that would make it an 8ohm load. If you wire them in parallel it will be a 2ohm load. If your amp can support a 2 ohm load it would be MUCH louder that way! Just an FYI ;)

may be louder but less dependable,amp runs hotter distorts easier..if he like the way it sounds i would leave it alone..:wink:

[mrfixxall]

Great comments guys, keep them coming! There's a lot to digest on this topic. Seems like I'm pretty much going after a setup like Jamesbon's. A couple of more questions, any recommendations on which Memphis amp? I checked out their site and there's alot to choose from, I'm not sure which would work in my application. Also, those Bazooka tube woofers, how the heck do you mount them? It would have to go in the cuddy; can they be mounted in an enclosure? I have to admit I find the technical ohm stuff etc. pretty confusing.:bonk: Thanks again for the input, lots to think about!
John

all you need is 1 good 12'' woofer like a memphis will distroy a pair of bazooka tubes..if it were my boat i would make a enclosure in the center of the back seat (you do have a zx style interior?)...in the face of the seat cut your hole and mount a grill their then make whatever cubic box that the mfr reccomends for the amount of air your going to use out of mdf board and give it a coat of resin and glass to keep mother nature from distroying it,you can also paint the box too to keep the moisture out.. a sealed box will handle more power and will give you more snappy bass where a ported box will give you deeper bass and a vented box will give you louder bass and takes less power..

you can also try a kicker woofer, they have one thats call a free air series which requires no enclosure..if this is the route you go i would install two and you can still keep the storage area under your back seat..just cut the holes and screw them in with grills and wire them and your done..ive installed many many steros in boats and this is the route many of my customers have chosen and it still rocked and rattled your nads off.if your building a box for the speaker and they refer th cubic foot,12x12x12 id = 1728 cubic inches.most 12 woofer require 2 cf + or - 10%, so if your back seat isnt deep enough you can go wider and not as deep to get the 2 cf..Leghth x width x height ruel..remember inner diameter.

ok about ohmes,,,lets say you take your rear speakers 4 ohmes and twisted both + wires & both - wire together this will make your ohme inpedance 2 ohmes so take the # and divide it by 2 if wired in paralle..now take your rear speakers again, from the amp you start out with the + wire fron the amp to the + wire on the speaker, now take the - wire of that same speaker and attach it to the + wire on the other speaker,now take the - wire on that speaker and attach it to the - side on the channel of the amp..now you wires the rear speakers in series..so you take the ohme the speakers are lets say 4 ohmes,so you add them together 4+4 = 8 ohmes...the less ohmes the less power it will take to drive them..the more ohmes the more power (safer to)

hope this helps..:wink:

[blackhawk]

may be louder but less dependable,amp runs hotter distorts easier..if he like the way it sounds i would leave it alone..:wink:

I agree if you're happy with the way it sounds I wouldn't mess with it. I was just throwing an FYI out there! :D

[yeller]

may be louder but less dependable,amp runs hotter distorts easier..if he like the way it sounds i would leave it alone..:wink:

Just so your not scaring him....in case he wants it louder. :)
Yes, running at 8ohms is technically more dependable, but that's an unneccessary concern. It's like never, ever revving your motor past 2500 just so it'll last a few extra years. If it's a 2ohm amp, it's designed for a 2ohm load and will have no problem handling it. Now if it's a 4ohm amp run with a 2ohm load....that'll be less dependable.

[blackhawk]

I agree with mrfixxal a good sub will sound much better than the bazooka tubes.

I am not a big fan of free air speakers but if you have to go that route it will work. However, keep in mind they take a lot more power.

I built enclosures under my back seat and sealed it up tight.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=23399&d=1156300443

[Donzi LG]

My God this stuff is confusing!! I thought Bazookas are subs. No? Man it seems like I need an electrical engineering degree just to put together a system with more than 2 speakers. I thought I could buy an amp and a subwoofer to add to my existing head and 2 speakers but this seems waaayyy more involved than I thought at first. I had no idea all the considerations that have to be made just to get better sound!

[blackhawk]

LOL...It can get confusing.

Bazookas are subs and they sound decent. But a "regular" sub enclosure with an amp will sound better. You can add an amp, sub and two speakers easily to your current system. It gets confusing because there are so many ways to do it.

You can use a two channel amp for the speakers and a mono amp for the subs.

You can use a 4 channel amp and bridge channels 3 and 4 for the subs.

Etc, etc. There really is no "right" way. It's all personal preference.

To keep it simple I would probably go with a 4 channel amp and bridge(combine) channels 3 and 4 for the sub. Very easy to do.

[mrfixxall]

My God this stuff is confusing!! I thought Bazookas are subs. No? Man it seems like I need an electrical engineering degree just to put together a system with more than 2 speakers. I thought I could buy an amp and a subwoofer to add to my existing head and 2 speakers but this seems waaayyy more involved than I thought at first. I had no idea all the considerations that have to be made just to get better sound!


IF YOUR SERIOUS ABOUT THE MEMPHIS AMP I CAN GET THEM,,IN REALITY THEIR AOUT HALF THE SIZE OF BLACKHAWKS AMP AND WILL STILL PUMP OUT THE POWER..PRICY THO

THIS ONE IS AROUND 500.00 #MAD 16-3004

http://www.memphiscaraudio.com/

[blackhawk]

Actually they are similar sizes. Mine is shorter but wider. Profile isn't a "high-end" amp but I did a lot of research on them and for the money they are a great amp. My four channel runs 125watts RMS x 4 at 2 ohms. Has high and low pass crossovers. Treble adjustments for the front channels and bass adjustments for the rear channels. I also love how easy the connections were and it has preamp outputs. I don't think you can find a better amp for under $150.

The bridgeable mode and seperate bass and treble adjustments, combined with the crossovers make it a great amp for adding 2 6.5s and a sub. They also make a smaller amp for even less money.

BTW...my intention was not to slam the Memphis or any other amp. I am merely pointing out these are great amps for the money.

[mrfixxall]

Actually they are similar sizes. Mine is shorter but wider. Profile isn't a "high-end" amp but I did a lot of research on them and for the money they are a great amp. My four channel runs 125watts RMS x 4 at 2 ohms. Has high and low pass crossovers. Treble adjustments for the front channels and bass adjustments for the rear channels. I also love how easy the connections were and it has preamp outputs. I don't think you can find a better amp for under $150.
The bridgeable mode and seperate bass and treble adjustments, combined with the crossovers make it a great amp for adding 2 6.5s and a sub. They also make a smaller amp for even less money.
BTW...my intention was not to slam the Memphis or any other amp. I am merely pointing out these are great amps for the money.
No punt takin:lookaroun:) and yes profile is a good bang amp for the buck:wink: its probably as long as your two amps but more narrow, they also have built in cooling fans so if you do mount them under a seat they wont over heat..

[mikev]

I added a Sony Xplode 500 watt 4 channel amp and its pushing two sony explode 6X9's in boxes and two sony explode 6 1/2" speakers. the speakers are great cause there all poly cones so water doesnt hurt them. I spent about $225.00 out the door at walmart. it is loud as heck has decent base for now and i am not out much when something finaly gets to wet and quits working. I do plan on adding a sub one of these days and just running it off the sony amps channel 3 and 4 bridged with all 4 speakers running off the front to channels.