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gcarter
09-11-2007, 03:13 PM
The Testa Rossa has been proceding a lot more slowly than I anticipated. But I finally broke down and rented a scissor lift to hang some chains from a roof perling some 18' in the air. Here's a few pics of my service manager on the lift drilling some holes in the perling. The idea was to bolt some 2" X 1/4" X 18" flatbars to the perling and then shackle 7' long 3/8" proof chain to the bars. Then I can hang comealongs at whatever height I need. There are three chains at predetermined locations so I can easily pull decks on 18's, Minx, and 22's.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=31576&d=1189541534

Unfortunately I have to go to Cleveland for a national dealer meeting tomorrow and I won't be back till saturday evening. But I will post some pics on Sunday of the deck hanging in the air.:)

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=31577&d=1189541534

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=31578&d=1189541566

MOP
09-11-2007, 04:49 PM
It is about time now tear that bugger apart, you have been dragging butt tooooo looong!

Phil

mrfixxall
09-11-2007, 05:02 PM
The Testa Rossa has been proceding a lot more slowly than I anticipated. But I finally broke down and rented a scissor lift to hang some chains from a roof perling some 18' in the air. Here's a few pics of my service manager on the lift drilling some holes in the perling. The idea was to bolt some 2" X 1/4" X 18" flatbars to the perling and then shackle 7' long 3/8" proof chain to the bars. Then I can hang comealongs at whatever height I need. There are three chains at predetermined locations so I can easily pull decks on 18's, Minx, and 22's.
Unfortunately I have to go to Cleveland for a national dealer meeting tomorrow and I won't be back till saturday evening. But I will post some pics on Sunday of the deck hanging in the air.:)


i built a jig and lifted mine from the ski locker,,its was a safer method and didnt want to put all the stress on the front or rear deck of the boat..try lifting the front of the deck and you will see what i mean..:)

Ed Donnelly
09-11-2007, 05:16 PM
George; Don't you just hate it when work interferes with boat time...Ed

gcarter
09-11-2007, 06:09 PM
i built a jig and lifted mine from the ski locker,,its was a safer method and didnt want to put all the stress on the front or rear deck of the boat..try lifting the front of the deck and you will see what i mean..:)
Actually, I'm doing something similar....through the fuel fill hole, I'll have an I-bolt through a 2 X 4 under the deck supporting it over about 4'. Then at the rear, there'll be two 2 X 6's running transversely just at the front of the engine compartment, under the deck, also with an I-bolt through them on the center line of the hull.
The advantage for me is I need to do a good amount of work on the cockpit bottom. This way I'll be able to support the deck w/the cockpit floor unemcumbered, or, I'll be able to lower the deck onto some furniture dollies and move it around. This is similar to what I did w/the Minx.

Cuda
09-11-2007, 06:25 PM
The Testa Rossa has been proceding a lot more slowly than I anticipated. But I finally broke down and rented a scissor lift to hang some chains from a roof perling some 18' in the air.

Hmm. Didn't someone suggest the lift a couple months ago??:wink:

MOP
09-11-2007, 06:30 PM
Get Em Joe! We all know about dragging butt! Drive over and break some chops, maybe even ask Deb for assistance LOL!

gcarter
09-11-2007, 07:02 PM
Get Em Joe! We all know about dragging butt! Drive over and break some chops, maybe even ask Deb for assistance LOL!
I'm not worried about Joe....., but Debbie, that's different!!!
Maybe Laine will protect me.
Yep Joe, you're right, I just got tired of waiting.

Cuda
09-12-2007, 07:14 AM
It's by far the safest, and fastest way to work that high. We just finished a job at a new Home Depot in Jax. They had an army of these lifts on the job. They'd plug them all in at the end of the day to charge, and if I plugged in the wetsaw, it would blow the breaker. I had to unplug a few of them, while we were using the saw.

gcarter
09-17-2007, 11:28 AM
So I did get the deck off on Sunday, but the camera card was in my computer bag...........
Here's a few pictures from today;

BTW, Mr Fixxit was right! the front deck is a lot more flimsy than the Minx. I started out w/the front support through the fuel fill hole, after just a little while I saw the error of my ways and moved it to the anchor light hole.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=31699&d=1190046501

BigGrizzly
09-17-2007, 03:53 PM
George I would let you do my Corsican fuel tank, but you would tell everyone what is wrong or worse show pictures of my bilge!!

gcarter
09-17-2007, 04:23 PM
Randy, I wouldn't if you didn't want me to.

vonkamp
09-17-2007, 06:44 PM
Looks good George! Are you going to leave the deck suspended or place it on something?

gcarter
09-17-2007, 07:33 PM
Looks good George! Are you going to leave the deck suspended or place it on something?
When the time comes to work on the deck, I'll put it on something. It'll be awhile.

Cuda
09-18-2007, 04:32 AM
G, do you have a plan for power?

gcarter
09-18-2007, 04:48 AM
G, do you have a plan for power?
Yes, the immediate plan is to refresh the 454 that was in it. It was much massaged in '93 and had only 100 hours since.

gcarter
09-26-2007, 06:39 PM
When I removed the 41 gallon tank from the Minx, I thought it couldn't be much easier. I sawed the foam out from in front of the tank and pried upwards on the front of the tank and it slid out as if by magic!!!:eek!: It was as though the bottom of the tank had been coated with mold parting compuond (wax) and who knows???? maybe it had!
Not so with the Testa Rossa 55 gallon tank!
I again sawed out the foam from in front of the tank and tried to pry it out.....no go!!! :bonk:
Well, I tried some other things. At each end of the tank are two small bent up angles welded to the tank that are used w/some small wooden blocks to screw the tank top to the stringers to position it for foaming into place. I chiseled out the blocks and shackled the angles to some chains and attempted to pull the tank out with my engine hoist.
The welded angles ripped right off. But I wasn't really surprised.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=31886&d=1190849962


http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=31887&d=1190849962


http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=31888&d=1190849962

gcarter
09-26-2007, 06:55 PM
Well, next I cleaned out the foam under the front of the tank and inserted a 2" wide pry bar under the tank on one side. I applied quite a bit of pressure sideways and was able to move the tank upwards about 1/2".....
Eventually I had enough space under the front of the tank to get a strap under the tank and choke it so I could pull it out with the engine hoist.
It still wasn't easy, but it came out. It almost picked the bow of the boat off the front dolly.:yes:

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=31889&d=1190850941

gcarter
09-26-2007, 07:05 PM
After removing all the old foam, I found the tank is in excellent condition. After seeing the way the Minx tank was so corroded, this was a very pleasant revelation.
I'm going to replace the tank regardless because I'm planning on increasing the size of the tank as much as possible. I'll probably order a new tank from RDS that's 1" deeper and about 2" longer. It'll probably end up about 60 gallons or so.
If anyone wants to buy this tank, I'll sell it. I'ts very clean inside and no discernable pitting from corrosion.

MOP
09-26-2007, 08:27 PM
George take to a good welding shop and get a price, they will purge it and add what you want. I have seen that done more then once, From the pics I could see no staining of the foam to indicate it had water contact, save your self a couple of hundred bucks. Bringing it to 60 gallons is very little increase it should be 55 as it stands, I can run 95 in mine. I run the 40 gallon aft tank exclusively except on long trips or up at 1k as it makes the boat porpoise using the front tank, I would lose the floor locker and extend it aft 18" to 24" the will kick it up nicely. I find the 40 is fine for local, I can get over 100 miles out of it at a reasonably fast cruise then just switch to the front which I keep a few get home gallons in!

Phil

Cuda
09-26-2007, 09:02 PM
I didn't think you'd find anything wrong with it. The tank in our 1982 22 Classic was in fine shape, but since I had the deck off, I replaced it anyway.

VetteLT193
09-27-2007, 04:39 PM
... would lose the floor locker and extend it aft 18" to 24" the will kick it up nicely. ...
Phil

I agree. The floor locker is pretty useless anyway.

gcarter
09-27-2007, 07:31 PM
Speaking of tanks....this picture explains why water migrates into the tank compartment.
In fact, I've never seen any evidence that water drops down through the foam to the bottom of the compartment.
This picture shows the foam I pulled out from one of the drain pipe ends. If you look closely, you'll see the pipe is sealed through the bulkhead by some double sided rubber tape. Guess what folks......it's guaranteed to leak!!!:eek!:

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=31904&d=1190939488

On the boats I've done tank replacements on so far, I epoxied the drain pipe into both bulkheads. No more water intrusion from those sources anyway.

gcarter
09-30-2007, 03:28 PM
It's amazing how much grease, oil, grunge, and dirt collects on the inside of the hull after 20 years. A few oil leaks and spills, and you have a mess. It took several hours to get all the mess out.
Then I started making progress. I like to grind the entire inside of the hull. It gets rid of the "fur balls" of glass strands, high points and voids in the glass, and gives you an idea of the general condition of the hull.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=31937&d=1191184127

gcarter
09-30-2007, 03:40 PM
Up in the bow, I ground off a high spot and uncovered some filler. I was surprised to find it there. I have to admit it took me a couple of minutes to figure out why it was there. Anyone want to guess what it's there for?
Later, I'll put some more glass on it when I'm making all the corrections and additions.

gcarter
09-30-2007, 03:56 PM
Also I sawed a 1 3/8" hole through the bottom of the bow lifting bulkhead for a drain where there wasn't one before. It's amazing how much water is captured inside the bottom of that bulkhead. When it drains completely, I'll line the drain hole w/epoxy paste.
Also I increased the size of the fuel tank bulkheads drain holes to 1 3/8" from 1" so a 1" pipe can be used for the tank compartment drain.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=31939&d=1191185753

VetteLT193
09-30-2007, 04:01 PM
Up in the bow, I ground off a high spot and uncovered some filler. I was surprised to find it there. I have to admit it took me a couple of minutes to figure out why it was there. Anyone want to guess what it's there for?
Later, I'll put some more glass on it when I'm making all the corrections and additions.

strakes?

gcarter
09-30-2007, 04:05 PM
Yep.
That's what happens when you're only looking at the inside.

MOP
09-30-2007, 06:54 PM
Up to your old tricks! Are you nice and ITCHY now?
George you can bet 99% of the water by the lifting eye bulkhead came down its shaft.

gcarter
09-30-2007, 07:44 PM
Up to your old tricks! Are you nice and ITCHY now?
George you can bet 99% of the water by the lifting eye bulkhead came down its shaft.
Yep....real itchy!!!
When I get through, it won't any more.

MOP
10-01-2007, 12:34 PM
George I am surprised you have not grabbed a couple of paper Dough Boy suits, believe me you can't beat them.

Phil

gcarter
10-07-2007, 12:41 PM
Well, I have finished grinding the inside of the hull for the moment. I found a few voids that I'll take care of.....

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32072&d=1191778841


http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32073&d=1191778841

gcarter
10-07-2007, 12:52 PM
These older 22 hulls really don't have any strength issues like the post '01 boats do. In fact many owners prefer the older hulls. But any production glass boat is going to have some production issues. That's the reason for grinding the hull. Look at the pics and you'll see the voids I uncovered. It seems the stern of the boat always more issues than the bow. But my plan is to fix the voids. Look at the pictures and you'll see they hold moisture. Also the voids do nothing to increase strength in the hull. Think of the relative strength of a phone book as apposed to a solid piece of wood of the same size.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32074&d=1191779543


http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32075&d=1191779543


http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32076&d=1191779543

gcarter
10-07-2007, 12:59 PM
Additionally I'll be adding some large glass filled fillets at the root of the stringers and some glass reinforement both inside and outside of the stringers.
Oh yeah..a new transverse frame aft of the rear seat back along with some additional stringer reinforcement gussets.

gcarter
10-07-2007, 04:45 PM
Just for comparison, this pic was from when I first pulled the deck. I didn't like the transverse frame at all so, the ends were pulling up, so it was the first to go. Also, I removed the pump pad from under the engine, then the electrical pad on the stbd transom. These plywood pieces are 20 years old and weren't in good shape.
http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=31700&d=1190046501

gcarter
10-08-2007, 06:48 PM
I took a break today from working inside the hull to take a look at the outside. The bottom of the hull is badly oxydized and I assumed that was the reason the hull was painted...just to keep from having to keep the gel buffed.
I started out by trying several strippers..including Easy Off. Nothing I tried touched or softened the paint.
So I dug out the D-A and put on some 220 and covered about four square feet down to the primer. Then I switched to 360 because I didn't have any 400. Once all the primer was off that area, I switched again to 800 then 1200. In this picture, I've finished with 1200 and you can see a reflection in it. Now I only have about 20 times this area to go.
I don't mind paint, in fact I like it in the right areas, but this paint doesn't even match the original gel.

Trueser
10-08-2007, 07:08 PM
George,
That transom looks like it was hit by a shotgun.

LOL

gcarter
10-08-2007, 07:10 PM
Next I took a look at the transom. I started sanding off the paint like I did on the port side and it was looking pretty good until I got down into the area where the original Bennett tabs had been located. Then I found out the former owner had attempted to plug the Bennett mounting holes from the outside!!!:eek!::eek!:
Gosh folks...save yourself a lot of frustration and embarrasment and don't do that!!:bonk::bonk:
The proper way is to taper the hole from the inside, maybe with a countersink, and fill it w/glass filled filler. Then all you have to do is use some color matched gel paste on the outside. Sand the outside and buff.
But if you look at the next picture, you'll see that now I have to re-gel the entire transom.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32125&d=1191888596

MOP
10-09-2007, 09:56 PM
Backing up on our conversation I can see the mess the transom! George I have faith:wink:

gcarter
10-10-2007, 03:43 PM
Yesterday I was able to sand off all the paint on the port side w/220 and today I sanded the whole port side w/400, 800, and 1200. Then just for fun, I buffed the port side from the transom to the fuel vent w/ coarse compound.
Take a look.....

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32143&d=1192048977

LKSD
10-10-2007, 06:21 PM
Wow, you have your work cut out for you, but it is looking good..

Want a job?? lol :D :D


Jamie / Lakeside


.

gcarter
10-11-2007, 03:37 AM
Wow, you have your work cut out for you, but it is looking good..
Want a job?? lol :D :D
Jamie / Lakeside
.
Thanks Jamie!:)
This stuff is a break from the cares of the world:yes:, but if I had to do it for a living, it wouldn't be fun any more.:boggled:

BigGrizzly
10-11-2007, 09:00 AM
George, you do have your work cut out for you but the Minx was a good practice run. Good luck, and hope to see you again soon.

LKSD
10-11-2007, 10:11 AM
Thanks Jamie!:)
This stuff is a break from the cares of the world:yes:, but if I had to do it for a living, it wouldn't be fun any more.:boggled:

:D
Come on, thats not entirely true... I still have fun sometimes..lol... :) Jamie

gcarter
10-27-2007, 02:59 PM
I took a week off to go get a truck in Illinois and on the way back I got one of the worst colds I've had in years. Today I felt up to working on it again.
On the stbd side after sanding off the paint w/220 on a D-A, instead on using the D-A for the next course of 400 paper, I bought a roll of 400 paper for my air file. This went real well and I ended up w/the surface being flatter. Unfortunately, 400 is the finest available in this form. Next, it'll get the 800 and 1200 w/the D-A.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32358&d=1193515134

gcarter
10-27-2007, 03:07 PM
What I thoght was oxidation on the bottom was instead, poorly applied paint with a lot of the primer showing. If I could have turned it over, I would have but I do most of this stuff by myself, so that would be difficult. Instead, I raise the legs on the dollies to the highest position and climb underneath on a creeper. It's really no too bad.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32359&d=1193515646

gcarter
10-27-2007, 03:27 PM
There was a lot of discussion on another forum and this one about the changes Donzi made to the 22 hull in '02 or so. One of the characterestics of the changes (before Donzi corrected them) were cracks in the bottom. While under the stern, I noticed at the end of the inner strakes about 2' in front of the transom, there was some spider cracks through the gel right in the transition of the verical and the hull bottom. The inner strake is located directly under the stringers port and stbd. This doesn't concern me because I'm planning on significantly reinforcing the stringers and bottom. Watch this space!
I'm curious though about how many others might have gel cracks in the same place??? This is one of the problems w/trailers is you can't see the bottom.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32360&d=1193516558

gcarter
10-27-2007, 03:35 PM
Another thing I noticed while sanding the vertical sides of the strakes, there was very little gel on those surfaces. I suppose spraying the gel into the mold is harder to get adequate coverage on those vertical surfaces rather than the bottom. I would guess this would vary from boat to boat and day to day,

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32361&d=1193517302

yeller
10-28-2007, 01:24 PM
While under the stern, I noticed at the end of the inner strakes about 2' in front of the transom, there was some spider cracks through the gel right in the transition of the verical and the hull bottom. The inner strake is located directly under the stringers port and stbd.George, that's where (and why) the newer ones are cracking as well. Seems Donzi has managed to come full circle and repeat their mistakes.

MOP
10-28-2007, 02:34 PM
The cracking you are finding is really minor BS, the older ones developed some minor cracking over a period of many years almost all of which was outboard not where the new ones do. The early newer ones with the stringers placed outboard of the strakes cracked very early in life, but Donzi came up with a good fix and have strengthened the new ones. The older 22's had the stringers set at 22" on center and placed directly above the strakes which gave them support where it was needed, the newer spread stringer setups left the strakes unsupported which caused the cracking issue. It has also been pointed out by a few owners and other knowledgeable guys that the lowering of the 496 engine packages made the boats porpoise due to the extra drive leverage, we got a first hand look at just how bad one could be at the 06 1K run. Atomictan "Carl's" boat would literally hop drove him crazy! The bottom fix works great, add a shorty and you are in business!

RickSE
10-28-2007, 11:30 PM
Very interesting George. Thanks for posting. Are you planning on removing the gel at the cracks? It'll be interesting to see what's in there if you do. My cracks looked a little different with a single crack in the corner that didn't fan out until it passed the aft end of the strake. You seem to have some fan cracks coming out of the corner. I wonder if your strake pockets were filled before the stringers were glassed in.

gcarter
10-29-2007, 05:39 AM
Very interesting George. Thanks for posting. Are you planning on removing the gel at the cracks? It'll be interesting to see what's in there if you do. My cracks looked a little different with a single crack in the corner that didn't fan out until it passed the aft end of the strake. You seem to have some fan cracks coming out of the corner. I wonder if your strake pockets were filled before the stringers were glassed in.
Yes they were filled. The port side cracking was worse, but I didn't want to stop and take pictures. I cleaned it completely and it was purely cosmetic.
I will be reinforcing the stringer/bottom joint considerably. I think it's just an indication of the junction of an area that produces a considerable amount of lift (the strake bottom) and an area that doesn't (the hull bottom @ 24*).

RickSE
10-29-2007, 11:55 AM
... The port side cracking was worse, ...

My original gel cracks were slightly more severe on the port side. Now after the repair my port side has cracked again and the starboard has not. The port side definitely seems to take more abuse. Mine may be stress relief from the new lay-up though since the cracks appeared early, after coming back from FL, and never progressed. The keel panel between the stringers definitely takes a beating on these boats and as you've mentioned the outboard corner of the inner strake is the weak point where they seem to flex. Sounds like your corner is outboard of the stringer while mine and the other post 02's is inboard.

On a side note, I'm not sure if this caused the stringer placement change but the 02' SE's have offshore brackets which requires the stringers to be at least 28" apart. This may or may not be when they moved the stringers.

gcarter
10-29-2007, 01:17 PM
Well, this boat is 20 years old, and from '93-to the present, had probably 500 HP in it. I'll be detuning the engine somewhat, I'll be happy w/425-450 HP. At my age, that's a true statement.
Since all the damage is cosmetic, I'm not overly concerned. Particularly as the inside will be significantly stronger.

gcarter
10-29-2007, 01:20 PM
On a side note, I'm not sure if this caused the stringer placement change but the 02' SE's have offshore brackets which require the stringers to be at least 28" apart. This may or may not be when they moved the stringers.
Do all the post '01 boats have offshore mounts?

RickSE
10-30-2007, 02:26 PM
Do all the post '01 boats have offshore mounts?

No, just the SE's. Everything else is using standard mounts.

gcarter
11-02-2007, 02:57 PM
I went a little further on the port inside strake termination and found this.....
There was an indication of delamination in the layup. There was a small chip in it, there was also a little moisture weeping through.
After sanding all the way through the gel in area, you'll see the dark colored area is in the strake pocket is filled on the inside, the lighter yellow area is just outboard of the filled area and it's translucent.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32528&d=1194033242

gcarter
11-02-2007, 03:03 PM
This just happens to be just forward of the forward engine mount hole.
If you look carefully, there's a minor crack in the glass in the fillet of the stringer/hull bottom. It's about 1" or so forward the mount hole.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32529&d=1194033559

gcarter
11-02-2007, 03:08 PM
I'm formulating a fix......but does anyone else want to chime in?????

RickSE
11-02-2007, 07:29 PM
I don't know George, looks pretty similar to our stuff with with the newer boats.

Donzi was looking for voids under the stringers on the newer stuff but it doesn't look like you have any.

Like I mentioned before, I really believe the stringer to stringer keel panel is too weak on these boats. The pounding they take on this panel pushes the panel in like a drum, flexing it in and out and concentrating the stress at the lifting strake corners. I'd have to assume that if this joint flexes enough over time it'll eventually crack the laminate and not just the gel.

You either minimize the drum flexing effect in the keel panel or beef up the corner joint at the base of the stringer. Donzi's fix was trying to accomplish both.

Bigger power seems to enhance the issue.

gcarter
11-02-2007, 07:52 PM
Thanks Rick. Part of my solution will be to cut open the stringer bases and after drying completely, if necessary, then pack it full of glass filled polyester putty, or glass filled thickened epoxy. Then forming large radii of glass filled putty both inboard and outboard of both stringers, followed by a layup of glass across the entire bottom (not just between the stringers) and up the sides of the stringers.

BigGrizzly
11-03-2007, 10:21 AM
George I love the pictures and steps your taking. I also think radius is a stress relieving good idea. Rick, I would like to see pictures of Donzi's fix. Just remember when you strengthen on part it shows weakening in other areas. the trick is to make the weak part easy to fix or non existent for your use. I normally don't drive past this point. If it is too nasty for me I slow down. If people want to pass me I wait till I deem it is good enough to pursue, then I catch up. Discretion the better point of valor. This is a good post!

RickR
11-03-2007, 01:14 PM
gcarter
Engine torque causes a greater load on the port side stringer/motor mount area.
I reinforced the stringers on my 18 w/BBC with some aluminum plate (1/4"x4"x36"). Aluminum angle would be better. GEOO did the same w/Mighty Mouse. If "Blackie" is following the thread mabe he'll post some pics.
Your pic when removing deck showed you do not have any "Floors" near the stringers. I am pretty sure my 95 22 has 2 "Floors" on each side fore and aft of the engine mounts. I put diamond plate over the "Sole"(see pic) so I cannot check for you :(
I have had no issues with the 1995 22. Of course I drive really slow :shocking:
+1 w/Grizz and your plan with the radius. If you reinforce an area make sure you do not create a "Hard Spot", spread the load as evenly as you can.

yeller
11-03-2007, 02:21 PM
Then forming large radii of glass filled putty both inboard and outboard of both stringersGood idea George. The guy that fixed my boat wasn't confident that Donzi's repair would hold up because it only addressed inboard side of the stringers. He felt the outboard side should be radiused as well.

gcarter
11-03-2007, 03:41 PM
do occur, just take a look....
Unfortunately they come from the factory w/them.
1) Port Side
2) Stbd side

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32539&d=1194122494

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32540&d=1194122494

gcarter
11-03-2007, 03:51 PM
Looking at these pictures, first you'd have to assume these stress lines (I don't want to call them cracks) continue all the way to the transom.
I was sort of surprised to find them on both sides. You can see exactly where the stringer is.
My conjecture is they exist from the transom to the inner strakes where the load then spreads out and then causes the hairline cracks up the sides of the strakes for another couple of feet.
Now I wonder how many other boats have the same indication of stress since we NEVER see under the gel?????

RickR
11-03-2007, 04:44 PM
That's what I would call a "Hard Spot" :frown:
Gel Coat must be VERY flexible.

RickSE
11-04-2007, 09:54 PM
George, where's the stringer(s) base in the pictures, directly above the hairlines? Is the base where the dark color begins?

Someone mentioned a while back that hard spots will try to cut their way through the bottom of the boat. Do you think this is what is going on?

RickR, like you state the newer boats have a panel glassed in on the outboard side of the stringer(s) to the chine area.

gcarter
11-04-2007, 10:07 PM
Rick, you're right on all counts. The dark area is the stringers plus unremoved paint, filler, etc.
I'm a little concerned about every one else's boats too. Has any one else ever removed the gel under their stringers? Could this be more common than we might think?
One other note, forward where the strake starts, the strakes are filled with a filler that doesn't harden. It's still pliable. I think that filler acts as a shock absorber. Aft of the strake termination, there's nothing to absorb it, so we get the stress.
Anyone want to chime in?

RickSE
11-05-2007, 10:32 AM
...I'm a little concerned about every one else's boats too....

Bingo :nilly:



...Anyone want to chime in?

I'm also waiting for this. So what is the ultimate solution? A thicker laminate under the stringers before they are laid in? A cored bottom, again before the stringers are laid in? Isn't Mr. X coring the bottom on his 22?

I hate to ask this, but is this boat design/lay-up being pushed beyond its limits at 450 to 500+ HP?

gcarter
11-05-2007, 11:20 AM
Bingo :nilly:
I'm also waiting for this. So what is the ultimate solution? A thicker laminate under the stringers before they are laid in? A cored bottom, again before the stringers are laid in? Isn't Mr. X coring the bottom on his 22?
I hate to ask this, but is this boat design/lay-up being pushed beyond its limits at 450 to 500+ HP?

First, I think it is being pushed a bit. But we haven't had any sink yet as far as I know.
Next take a look at this page;
http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1088&d=1079229036
Keeping in mind no boat has 0* deadrise, it's only an illustration. But let's go through the process of the 80's boats.......
The hull was laid up and the stringers were fabricated outside of the hull along with the transverse frame which was nailed to the stringers. The stringers were laid into the hull and saturated glass was laid over them. With the section of the stringers being made from 1" X 12" pine and having square bottoms, there would be a void under the stringers and they would only touch the bottom on the outboard corners, i.e., a razor edge in contact w/the bottom. I've worked on three of these boats now w/o any variation. They all suffer from lack of support under the stringers (this is only my opinion).
I particularly like the third illustration, keeping in mind that our stringers are wood and not composite. But if an attempt is made to fill the voids under the stringers, build up large radii inboard and outboard of the stringers, and do a multi part layup of glass on both sides along w/strengthening of the bottom, it should help tremendously.

gcarter
11-06-2007, 10:28 AM
Here's a picture of the hull inside above the port strake and you can see the translucense of the 'glass where I sanded the gel off the bottom.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32582&d=1194366470

gcarter
11-06-2007, 10:34 AM
This morning I cut into both the port and stbd stringers.....the good news is that they were dry. The less encouraging news is that there were voids under both. I don't know how bad they are yet but they're better than the Minx which were more than 1/2" off the bottom on the inside of the stringers.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32584&d=1194366854

RickR
11-06-2007, 10:44 AM
gcarter
Do you think the stringers are flexing?
On my current project (87 Supra/ski boat, stringer, sole and floor replacement) I plan on cutting the base, of the wood part of the stringer (2"x6"), at an angle. Then bedding in thickened resin.
Looks like Donzi's solution was install 2 floors (braces perpendicular to the stringers), on each side, fore and aft the motor mounts on the later models.

gcarter
11-06-2007, 12:44 PM
I haven't seen any indication of stringer flexing on any of the Donzis I've worked on. But, when you think about it, why would they???
IMHO, the weakest part of the assembly would be the stringer/bottom joint aft of the strakes.
The transverse frame along with a couple additional gussets are all the reinforcement it needs.
I think the floors are more for utility than strength. The down side to them is the voids become inaccesable.

RickSE
11-06-2007, 01:37 PM
George,
Can you tell if the hairlines in the bottom of the boat are directly under the stringer cross section or under the outboard or inboard edge/corner of the stringer base?

It would seem to make sense that your's would be under the outboard edge of the stringer base while ours, with newer boats, are under the inboard edge due to stringer & strake position. The crack that you showed earlier, inside the boat at the base of the stringer, was this inboard or outboard?

Can you give me some dimensional numbers?
What is the approx. spread of your inner lifting strakes, distance between star. outboard vertical face to port outboard vertical face?
What is your stringer spread again, inboard face to inboard face?
Stringer thickness? 1"??

Something like this.

gcarter
11-06-2007, 07:00 PM
The outboard corners of the stringers are 1" inboard of the outboard edges of the strakes.
But there are other differences in the boats.....in the older boats, the strakes are filled in and glassed over flush before the stringers are installed. Whereas the newer boats inner strakes seem to be left open.
Sorry guys, but my picture won't post so I deleted it.
But, the distance between the stringers is 23.5", while the stringers are 1.25" thick. The distance over the inner strakes is 28", and over the outer strakes is 48".

RickSE
11-08-2007, 12:23 PM
Like this George?

I'll have to check my inner strake spread and confirm that it's at 30".

gcarter
11-08-2007, 01:56 PM
Thanks Rick. I know there's been a lot of discussion about the differences between the older hull and the newer one. This pretty well defines it.

I'm having to take about a week break because I had cataract surgery on my right eye this morning ( I had the left eye done last year).
I did get a lot of grinding of the inside of the hull done yesterday to get it ready reinforce the inside. As soon as I can I'll finish that step and start the reinforcement process.
Stand by......:)

Rootsy
11-08-2007, 02:33 PM
George,
Can you tell if the hairlines in the bottom of the boat are directly under the stringer cross section or under the outboard or inboard edge/corner of the stringer base?
It would seem to make sense that your's would be under the outboard edge of the stringer base while ours, with newer boats, are under the inboard edge due to stringer & strake position. The crack that you showed earlier, inside the boat at the base of the stringer, was this inboard or outboard?
Can you give me some dimensional numbers?
What is the approx. spread of your inner lifting strakes, distance between star. outboard vertical face to port outboard vertical face?
What is your stringer spread again, inboard face to inboard face?
Stringer thickness? 1"??
Something like this.

Ahem, that sketch does not appear to be fully constrained :wink::nilly:

RickSE
11-11-2007, 09:20 PM
Ahem, that sketch does not appear to be fully constrained :wink::nilly:

It's a quickie, not for official use.

I went out and measured my strakes again, 30" for inner and 48" for the outter strakes. So if George's inner strakes are at 28", I wonder when Donzi moved them to 30"?

gcarter
11-12-2007, 12:24 PM
So if George's inner strakes are at 28", I wonder when Donzi moved them to 30"?
'01-'02......I think it's all part of the package, the use of tabs, porpoising, wider stringers, etc.

gcarter
11-18-2007, 02:23 PM
If you look at this picture (void under port stringer), which happens to be directly over the area I sanded the gel off the bottom. The 'glass is translucent enough to iluminate the void under the wood stringer core. As you can see, the stringer core is flat bottomed pine (1") so the outboard corner is the only part that sits on the bottom glass (a razor edge).

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32825&d=1195417424

gcarter
11-18-2007, 02:29 PM
I filled the voids on port and stbd sides w/thickened epoxy.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32842&d=1195417827

gcarter
11-18-2007, 02:37 PM
I took a week off to have cataract surgery on my right eye. I had the same thing done on my left eye about 15 months ago.
If there's anything good about getting older, this is it. I think my vision now is better than any time since I was ten years ald.
Anyway, I'm back at it.
I've ordered some glass which should be in by Wednesday so I can really take advantage of the long weekend.

gcarter
11-26-2007, 03:50 PM
Someone was kind enough to forward to me the Donzi repair procedure for the stringer issues in the late model boats. Don't ask, I'm not at liberty to divulge the contents or post them.
But if you follow what I'm doing, you'll get the gist of it, w/some differences.
For instance, Donzi calls for and supplies long thin pieces of foam to core the built up radius on the inside stringer bases, I'll do that manually w/polyester putty. There'll be a step or two I'll leave out because my stringers are closer together than the newer boats.
But this first step is right out of the procedure, glassing in a strip of 24 Oz. Knytex (double diagonal stitchmat, Donzi calls for at least 17 Oz.) between the stringers.
Donzi doesn't call for any strengthening of the areas outside the stringers, but I'll be glassing in fairly wide strips in those areas.
Afterwards, I'll be filling in the radii at the stringer bases and building up glass above them.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32915&d=1196113651

gcarter
11-26-2007, 03:55 PM
What may look like voids aren't. The glass is thouroughly saturated and solid to the hull. It's apparently some discoloration in the glass underneath.
Also Donzi calls for this piece to extend from the transom to the transverse frame ahead of the engine. But since I haven't built a new frame yet, I extended mine another 15" past that point.

gcarter
11-29-2007, 03:30 PM
I wanted to "fix" the transom problems before I reinforce it with a couple of layers of Knytex. There were about a dozen extra holes through it.
First, I tapered the holes to be filled with a countersink to start with then I widened the taper some more with small tapered rasp in a drill. After cleaning up the mess, I taped off the holes from the outside. Then I filled the holes with milled fiber filled polyester putty from the inside of the transom. There were also some silver dollar sized voids near the bottom of both sides of the transom near the hull bottom.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32965&d=1196371784

gcarter
12-01-2007, 11:10 AM
This morning, I started on laying in a layer of Knytex in the bottom of the Stbd outboard side of the stringer.
A lot of care at this point saves a lot of headaches later

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32986&d=1196529023

gcarter
12-01-2007, 11:28 AM
After CAREFULLY cutting and trimming the Knytex, I started 'glassing it in.
First I carefully laid it into place w/all the edges snug upagainst the outboard at the chine, at the transom, and at the bottom corner of the stringer. Then, I folded the bottom half (longitudenally) up over the top half and started saturating the bottom of the glass that's folded over the top half. After that's done, I spread resin over the hull bottom, making sure it's covered. Then, I carefully picked up the entire length of the inboard edge of the saturated glass (it's just over six' long) and laid it into the bottom of the hull next to the stringer.
You end up getting very intimate w/ the glass, smoothing it w/ your hands, brushes, and whatever else you might have handy to eliminate any wrinkles, voids , stretched areas, etc. It's very time intensive. If you run out of catalized resin, you have to mix it on the fly.:nilly:
After the lower half is in satisfactorally, I laid the top half of the glass over the bottom half I had just installed to saturate that part of the glass w/ resin and cover the top (outboard) part of the hull bottom w/resin. Then the top part of the saturated glass is laid up into its proper position and massaged into place.
This is no time for mistakes, or oversights, or having forgotton something outside the boat!!!!!!!!!!:shocking:

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32988&d=1196530107

gcarter
12-01-2007, 11:32 AM
The marks you can see on the bottom are some small voids I had to putty up before laying in the glass.
Ultimately, I get to do this three more times before I'm done w/ the outboard areas!:smash:
I can hardly wait. It does wonders for my blood pressure.

mrfixxall
12-03-2007, 09:38 PM
After CAREFULLY cutting and trimming the Knytex, I started 'glassing it in.
First I carefully laid it into place w/all the edges snug upagainst the outboard at the chine, at the transom, and at the bottom corner of the stringer. Then, I folded the bottom half (longitudenally) up over the top half and started satuating the bottom of the glass that's folded over the top half. After that's done, I spread resin over the hull bottom, making sure it's covered. Then, I carefully picked up the entire length of the inboard edge of the saturated glass (it's just over six' long) and laid it into the bottom of the hull next to the stringer.
You end up getting very intimate w/ the glass, smoothing it w/ your hands, brushes, and whatever else you might have handy to eliminate any wrinkles, voids , stretched areas, etc. It's very time intensive. If you run out of catalized resin, you have to mix it on the fly.:nilly:
After the lower half is in satisfactorally, I laid the top half of the glass over the bottom half I had just installed to saturate that part of the glass w/ resin and cover the top (outboard) part of the hull bottom w/resin. Then the top part of the saturated glass is laid up into its proper position and massaged into place.
This is no time for mistakes, or oversites, or having forgotton something outside the boat!!!!!!!!!!:shocking:
Ya! your glass roller:wink:

gcarter
12-04-2007, 02:17 PM
It's a quickie, not for official use.
I went out and measured my strakes again, 30" for inner and 48" for the outter strakes. So if George's inner strakes are at 28", I wonder when Donzi moved them to 30"?
I previously answered this question ar '01-'02, but Bob came over w/ his '97 and his is at 30" also. So the answer is still unknown.
It probably happened when Donzi moved the engine mounting angles to the inside of the stringers. Also, maybe the outboard shelves happened simultaneously.
Anyone else know when that happened?????

gcarter
12-09-2007, 12:27 PM
It's been a little slow on the boat lately. Too much stuff w/work, Christmas parties and such. But today I got a chance to catch up.
Since the last post I have had the opportunity to lay in the port outboard bottom reinforcement and also one layer of reinforcement on both transom sides.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33125&d=1197224848

gcarter
12-09-2007, 12:33 PM
Some may wonder why reinforce the transom??.......
With the 16" planes on the boat plus the hydraulic outboard steering, I don't think you can be too careful while the boat is this far apart.
Elsewhere Ittlfli posted some photos of his Bennett tabs after a summer of running hard. They look somewhat like pretzels. I think this move is good insurance, after all, the load goes up the cylinder to the mount and ultimately to the middle of the transom.

gcarter
12-09-2007, 12:43 PM
Next, according to the Donzi supplied repair guide, a large radius is formed into the inboard stringer bottom. Donzi uses a strip of rigid foam that is puttied into the stringer/bottom joint. I had to form my own using lightweight polyester based body filler. Then a 12" wide piece of the same 24 oz. Knytex is laid over the radius w/half above and half below the joint. According to the guide this ends at the transverse frame but I extended mine to about 7'.
Again, this is fun stuff w/a piece this long because there's a lot to do before the resin kicks. Fortunately, it's pretty cool today at only about 80*.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33127&d=1197225825

gcarter
12-09-2007, 12:45 PM
Notice in the second picture above that I added a second reinforcement layer to the transom sides.

gcarter
12-09-2007, 12:48 PM
Finally, a picture of the port side stinger reinforcement in place.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33129&d=1197226106

Cuda
12-09-2007, 07:17 PM
Some may wonder why reinforce the transom??.......
With the 16" planes on the boat plus the hydraulic outboard steering, I don't think you can be too careful while the boat is this far apart.
Elsewhere Ittlfli posted some photos of his Bennett tabs after a summer of running hard. They look somewhat like pretzels. I think this move is good insurance, after all, the load goes up the cylinder to the mount and ultimately to the middle of the transom.
Apparently, Ittfli's transom was already strong enough to bend the tabs into pretzels.

gcarter
12-09-2007, 07:27 PM
Apparently, Ittfli's transom was already strong enough to bend the tabs into pretzels.
Yep, you're right, but then the Hynautic Power Planes are a bit larger than the Bennetts and I don't want to take any chances after grinding away so much glass after finding and fixing all the voids Donzi had in them.

gcarter
12-25-2007, 05:46 PM
I have been busy lately getting the Donzi prescribed reinforcing installed. As far as the procedure goes, it only includes the area between the stringers and then only from the transom to the transverse frame. It calls for an inspection of the area under the stringer for voids....duh!!!! And to fill them. Then as I've already mentioned, a layer of 24 oz. Knytex stitchmat in that prescribed area is layed in.Then a piece of rigid foam is glued into the stringer/bottom joints that acts as a radius. A 12" wide strip of knytex is installed into the stringer/bottom joint centered on the foam radius.
The Donzi procedure calls an additional reinforcement (in the form of an additional piece of foam on both the port and stbd side located 7" from the stringer...it looks like a strake on the inside of the hull). The newer boats stringers measure 2" wider than older boats like mine, so I didn't take this additional step. Then two pieces of 34 oz. roving stitchmat are installed, one on each the port and stbd side starting at the top of the stringers and down to past the center line of the hull so that they overlap at the centerline.

gcarter
12-25-2007, 05:51 PM
I've already posted pictures of the Knytex in the bottom, the port and stbd radii, the Knytex 12" reinforcement in the bottom/stringer joint, so here is a picture of the preporation to installing some of the 34 oz. roving stitchmat;

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33362&d=1198626701

gcarter
12-25-2007, 05:54 PM
This heavy stitchmat absorbs huge amounts of resin. One side takes about three pints.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33363&d=1198626845

gcarter
12-25-2007, 05:56 PM
Ditto for the stbd side....

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33364&d=1198626991

gcarter
12-25-2007, 06:05 PM
Unlike the Donzi procedure, I included additional reinforcement on the outside of the stringers. It includes a radius in the outboard stringer/bottom joint, followed by two strips of Knytex, one from the top of the stringers, and the other centered on the joint, followed by a layer of 34 oz roving stitchmat.
In this picture you can see the two strips of Knytex which are 7' long then the large piece of 34 oz roving which runs from the top of the stringers to out past the outer strakes.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33365&d=1198627518

gcarter
12-25-2007, 06:09 PM
Before starting on the outboard sides of the stringers, I removed the old glass in the area of the engine mounts. This was so that the center to center distance wouldn't grow so much that mounting holes would have to be enlarged, or slotted.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33366&d=1198627750

gcarter
12-25-2007, 06:13 PM
This concludes the bottom/stringer reinforcement, but by no means all of the necessary glass work.
I still have to re-cut all the drain holes through the stringers, and build and install a new transverse frame.
I'll be REALLY glad when it's done.

gcarter
12-26-2007, 12:13 PM
FWIW, this reinforcement exercise added about 100# to the boat including the better part of five gallons of resin.
Also, I ground out about 30-40# of glass out of the hull in preporation. I had to empty the vacuum cleaner at least three times.

gcarter
01-21-2008, 06:46 PM
I haven't added any content lately but I haven't been idle. With all the reinforcement done, I needed to add a new transverse frame and some additional stringer reinforcement lugs.
Here are some pics of the frame and lug construction;
1) Frame template.
2,3,4) Building frame.
5) Frame, outboard sections, and stringer reforcement lugs with radii on top, and covered w/two layers of 24 oz. Knytex. Also, the raw wood edges are coated with epoxy to eliminate any chance of rot.

gcarter
01-21-2008, 07:07 PM
Next, these pieces have to be installed into the aft reinforced area of the hull. The pieces were bedded into the hull w/thickened epoxy. Afterwards, I trimmed the excess epoxy w/a sharp chisel. Then I ran a small fillet of polyester putty filled w/milled fibers, because I don't think a right angle bend in the glass tabs is a good idea. In addition to tabbing in the pieces, I cut some specific Knytex pieces to help reinforce the ends of these stringer reinforcements. It seems the end are what always pull loose.
So here's some photographic evidence;
1) Marking location of pieces.
2) Bedding into thickened epoxy.
3) Tabbing in after running polyester putty fillets.
4) Pieces tabbed in and sanded.
5) Templates for end pieces.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33702&d=1200963954

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33703&d=1200963954

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33704&d=1200963979

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33705&d=1200963979

gcarter
01-21-2008, 07:11 PM
Here's a few more of the process:

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33710&d=1200964246

gcarter
01-21-2008, 07:24 PM
While looking in the bow area, I noticed the wood reinforcement of the bow eye was completely rotted away. I cut the glass off the top with a Dremel w/a carbide cutter. This is a great tool for trimming glass, or even cutting holes.
After the old wood had been cut out, I laid in about 8-10 pieces of Knytex. I'll back it up w/a small piece of Starboard cut to fit.

gcarter
01-23-2008, 07:19 PM
Now I'm putting th hull away for awhile and working on the deck.
The first thing to do was remove the foot box.
First, I removed the row of screws in the flanged joint on the bottom of the ****pit.
Next I drilled some holes in the top aft corner of the foot box and installed some bolts in the holes.

gcarter
01-23-2008, 07:24 PM
Next, I cut the glass strips holding the foot box onto the ****pit and remove it.

Note, the next time you see the foot box, it'll look a bit different.

gcarter
01-23-2008, 07:28 PM
Now comes the fun of removing the paint from the deck.

Doin' the D-A dance again......

gcarter
01-23-2008, 07:32 PM
There's lots of cracks in the ****pit bottom.
Watch this space and I'll show you how to fix them.

mjw930
01-23-2008, 08:22 PM
George,

Since you obviously know these boats inside and out could you tell me how thick the outer part of the transom is about where you would normally mount trailer tie downs? (assuming it's roughly the same on 22's with the partial cored transom, mine is an '87 built Sept. '86)

I bought some eye hooks that are different than the normal, run of the mill stern eyes. They are made in England by Wichard and feature a waterproof seal on the outside that does not require any sealant (though I'll use a dab in the holes just to be anal). They are a bit smaller than the normal eyes but they are rated at 9000 lbs working load so I think I'll be fine.

I just want to get an idea whether I can use these along with some 1/2" star board as backing on the Port side. On the Starboard side I plan on mounting it above the wire block on the wood block they already glassed onto the transom.

98shovel
01-23-2008, 08:36 PM
hey g see your making progress on my sister she looks good.
when we did mine to keep the drian holes clean and round I epoxied piecies of pvc pipe through the wood and glassed over them ,then when all done came in with a rotary file and cleaned them out made a nice drian hole completley sealed off from water
patrick

gcarter
01-23-2008, 08:40 PM
Here's a picture of the Minx's eyes. They came from the factory w/1/2" plywood backing. I replaced the plywood w/starboard. The Minx's beam is the same as a 22 if that's any help for scaling. I don't remember, but it seems like they're inboard of the electrical board.
OBTW, the transom is about 5/16" thick.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24272&d=1159816499

gcarter
01-23-2008, 08:51 PM
hey g see your making progress on my sister she looks good.
when we did mine to keep the drian holes clean and round I epoxied piecies of pvc pipe through the wood and glassed over them ,then when all done came in with a rotary file and cleaned them out made a nice drian hole completley sealed off from water
patrick
Do ya mean like this?????

mjw930
01-23-2008, 09:07 PM
Here's a picture of the Minx's eyes. They came from the factory w/1/2" plywood backing. I replaced the plywood w/starboard. The Minx's beam is the same as a 22 if that's any help for scaling. I don't remember, but it seems like they're inboard of the electrical board.
OBTW, the transom is about 5/16" thick.



Yes, the electrical board is about 1/2 way between where those are and the side of the boat. I may mount them inboard and back them with starboard, I haven't decided yet.

Thanks!

gcarter
02-02-2008, 10:18 PM
Today I made an intermediate step in modifying the foot box....

If someone wants the ski locker, come get it.

gcarter
02-02-2008, 10:26 PM
These older boats suffer badly from what I can only describe as stinginess on the part of Donzi in 'glass layup.
It just makes for a lot of extra work at this point. :garfield:

There should be an extra layer of 'glass under the bottom core, the core should have extended to the corner, or wrapped around the corner. Either way I'm paying the price for it 20 years later.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33939&d=1202012779

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33940&d=1202012779

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33941&d=1202012779

gcarter
02-03-2008, 08:35 PM
As I've already mentioned, I had started to removed the paint from the deck;
http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33755&d=1201138090

gcarter
02-03-2008, 08:39 PM
I used a D-A sander w/220 grit paper just like I did on the hull. It does a good job of removing the paint, but it's impossible to end up w/a completely flat surface.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33964&d=1202092769

gcarter
02-03-2008, 08:48 PM
Also, I had noticed some cracks in the deck near the port gunnel just in front of the ****pit. These are the cracks you see after the collision w/a piling or dock. Once I got the paint off, I found where an automotive body type repair had been done. Normally this type of damage would only extend through the gel. This one went a bit further.
Since the damage is in the glass itself, I'll have to grind the bottom of the glass and add a couple of layers of Knytex to the bottom to reinforce the damaged area.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33965&d=1202093298

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33966&d=1202093298

gcarter
02-03-2008, 08:56 PM
To flatten the deck so it won't be wavey when I re-gel it, I used an air file w/320 grit paper. This was pretty successful as you can see.
This whole operation is pretty time consuming. It took about 10 hours and a whole roll of 220 D-A paper to remove the paint. Then it took about six hours to flatten the surface and remove every bit of paint from every nook and cranny.

cutwater
02-04-2008, 10:14 AM
Wow George looking good. Do you think the significant cracks in the ****pit tub are related to the damage on the deck, or is this just a lack of fiberglass reinforcement? I have some cracks in the tub of my testarossa Minx, but they aren't that bad I don't think.

John

gcarter
02-04-2008, 01:06 PM
Wow George looking good. Do you think the significant cracks in the ****pit tub are related to the damage on the deck, or is this just a lack of fiberglass reinforcement? I have some cracks in the tub of my testarossa Minx, but they aren't that bad I don't think.

John
John, there was a period of time, the actual length of which I'm not sure, where the deck was built as a trampoline and much of the time the ****pit bottom is in contact w/the stringers. The ****pit bottom is just too lightly constructed. Period. If you add another layer of glass, it makes all the difference on the world. A lot has to do with how the plywood core is set up. many times it's too far from the edges and the corners fatigue and break. I've got some dillies in this hull. I'll try to do some illustrations to explain it. Unfortuantely, the only way to "FIX" it is to pull the deck.

gcarter
02-04-2008, 03:48 PM
I think everyone can follow these pictures.
The first is the floor just in front of the rear seat and just to port of the center locker.
The second is the bottom side of the same fiasco. You can see where the stringers are beating on the bottom. Actually you can see light right through the floor. There is only one layer of 'glass on the bottom of the ply core. The top of the floor ripped right along the edge of the 6" X 6" piece of ply core. Obviously I will have to rip out all this damaged area and start over.
I reinforced sections of the Minx's floor bottom and it made a huge difference in floor stiffness.

cutwater
02-04-2008, 04:34 PM
I can definitely see where the stringers were hitting the floor bottom, and I'm almost certain I have the same problems on my Minx. My only question would be were there any adverse effects caused by rigidly securing the ****pit floor to the stringers? Some "give" might be acceptable between the deck sections and hull sections, as long as the floor itself was reinforced. I have very limited knowledge of these things though, and you might have addressed this in your Minx resto threads, I'll look through those tonight.

One day I'm going to send my Minx down your way for a few weeks of "rehab". :doh:

gcarter
02-04-2008, 06:01 PM
I can definitely see where the stringers were hitting the floor bottom, and I'm almost certain I have the same problems on my Minx. My only question would be were there any adverse effects caused by rigidly securing the ****pit floor to the stringers? Some "give" might be acceptable between the deck sections and hull sections, as long as the floor itself was reinforced. I have very limited knowledge of these things though, and you might have addressed this in your Minx resto threads, I'll look through those tonight.

One day I'm going to send my Minx down your way for a few weeks of "rehab". :doh:
There's lots of give in the deck. It acts as a big spring and covers a large area so there's no fatigue like in the floor where it's all concentrated in such a small area.
Send the Minx on down. I'll put it in the "queue" as the Brits would say.

yeller
02-04-2008, 09:17 PM
George, are keeping the pop-up cleats or are you filling the holes. If you're going to relocate, I'd move the front ones aft about 12". Yours are where mine are and I find them too far forward.

Fill the snap holes while your at it. :wink: I hate the look of snaps sticking up on nice smooth deck. :)

gcarter
02-05-2008, 02:28 AM
George, are keeping the pop-up cleats or are you filling the holes. If you're going to relocate, I'd move the front ones aft about 12". Yours are where mine are and I find them too far forward.
Fill the snap holes while your at it. :wink: I hate the look of snaps sticking up on nice smooth deck. :)
Thanks for your input Yeller.
I'm a bit confused though as to how you attach a ****pit cover to the boat w/o snaps. Your post reminded me of my first (and only) trip to AOTH and how it seemed to rain about 6" the first night we were there and how I sure was glad the cover was on the boat.

CHACHI
02-05-2008, 02:52 PM
George, if your filling and relocating, don't forget to move the fuel fill to port. :wink:

Ken

VetteLT193
02-05-2008, 03:06 PM
Thanks for your input Yeller.
I'm a bit confused though as to how you attach a ****pit cover to the boat w/o snaps. Your post reminded me of my first (and only) trip to AOTH and how it seemed to rain about 6" the first night we were there and how I sure was glad the cover was on the boat.

For the amount a cokpit cover actually gets used I'd rather just use a tarp and tie it off to the cleats or don't use one at all.

Even 6" of rain won't come close to draining the batteries... the snaps get in the way, hurt like hell when you step on them wrong, and just don't look good in general. The ones that annoy me even more are the ones on the floor for the carpet. The carpet minus snaps is hard to get out by the time you negotiate it around the seats, it isn't going anywhere without snaps so it seems silly to include them on the floor.

BTW, if you really want a true cokpit cover without snaps, you can do it with pins into the rub rail. Big boats use this method all the time. the tiny holes in the rub rail are virtually un-noticeable.

gcarter
02-05-2008, 03:08 PM
George, if your filling and relocating, don't forget to move the fuel fill to port. :wink:

Ken
Ken, I don't think I'm going to relocate anything. That's a LOT of work and I have enough on my plate already.

Besides, if I were to do that, Poodle would call me wimpy or something.

The truth is, he would be doing well if he were doing as well as me when he gets to be my age.

CHACHI
02-05-2008, 03:15 PM
You are wrong George, we all would be doing well.


Ken

98shovel
02-05-2008, 06:41 PM
center fill is cool
side fill is!!!!!!!!!!!!!

gcarter
02-05-2008, 06:54 PM
When I would go to fill up, I'd throw the short ladder in the back of the Expedition and use it to stand on to fill it.
It's just part of the process.:smash:

98shovel
02-05-2008, 07:18 PM
or just find a tall woman

gcarter
02-05-2008, 07:22 PM
or just find a tall woman
I'm 6' and Elaine is 5'-11", I guess about 6'-6" would do.

98shovel
02-05-2008, 07:31 PM
that would be considerd legs all the way to heaven
how do u want are poster signed

gcarter
02-05-2008, 08:15 PM
that would be considerd legs all the way to heaven
how do u want are poster signed
How about Ed's suggestion....To a true Donzi fan etc.

VetteLT193
02-06-2008, 08:37 AM
When I would go to fill up, I'd throw the short ladder in the back of the Expedition and use it to stand on to fill it.
It's just part of the process.:smash:

I use a 5 gallon bucket turned upside down :nilly:

gcarter
02-06-2008, 09:16 AM
I hung the deck from the port side today!!! :eek:
Here's a few pics;

Trueser
02-06-2008, 10:33 AM
Check out the number of different pieces of plywood in picture 3.

I removed about the same amount and replaced it with 1 solid piece.

yeller
02-06-2008, 10:46 AM
Thanks for your input Yeller.
I'm a bit confused though as to how you attach a ****pit cover to the boat w/o snaps. Your post reminded me of my first (and only) trip to AOTH and how it seemed to rain about 6" the first night we were there and how I sure was glad the cover was on the boat.I was just kidding with ya George. :wink: I know it's a ton of work.
Truth is though, if I had the chance (and the skill) I would get rid of mine. I can get by without the cover. I'd also get rid of the metal plates on the engine hatch. I don't know why Donzi doesn't add a bit of coring where the hatch rams attach and ditch the backing plates. That's just me though.....I'd also ditch the lifting rings.

Oh yeah....definately move the fuel fill to the side. Center fills are for people stuck in the 60's. :)

gcarter
02-06-2008, 01:32 PM
Like Mike said, lots of pieces, and gaps, and mis-alignment, and more gaps. All of these are destructive and were obviously cost cutting measures.
Take a look at #5 where I marked the outline of the individual pieces. Then #6 where the 'glass is destroyed and you can see all the way through the floor. Notice the mis-alignment of the core in the floor to the front of the seat. You can see how big butts bouncing up and down on the seat would fatigue the 'glass and destroy itself.
This will change. :smash:

gcarter
02-06-2008, 02:02 PM
Oh yeah....definately move the fuel fill to the side. Center fills are for people stuck in the 60's. :)
OK Yeller, send the boat down and I'll move yours to the center. $40.00/HR plus materials.

gcarter
02-07-2008, 01:55 PM
Started working on the bottom of the ****pit today. Removed a bunch of glass by grinding around the perimeter of the core blocks and peeling it off.
Afterwards, I started peeling off three blocks of the ply core.
This is when I discovered Donzi put in NO STRANDED GLASS MATERIAL IN THE ****PIT FLOOR!
What a shock I had when I shoved my chisel right through the floor. No wonder these things fail. The layup from the mold goes like this;
gelcote
one thin layer of mat
one sheet of core-mat (adds no strength at all)
3/4" thick plywood core (on the flat surfaces only)
one layer of bi-directional glass/mat material.
If the layup crew that produced my deck had walked by at that moment, they would have gotten a piece of my mind.
I guess it's no big deal, just a lot more work to assure myself it won't happen again.
Keep in mind when you look at the pictures below, if you see a void, there's no reinforcement in the floor.

zelatore
02-07-2008, 04:15 PM
George, what's the theory behind using all the separate blocks of plywood in the floor?

I understand why it's done with balsa cores - by alternating the grain directions they can help mitigate water permeation along the grain from one block to the other. But that doesn't seem to make much sense with ply. I can't see any possible strength gain either. Could they be thinking they'd get resin through the joints to help prevent delamination? That seems a stretch to say the least.

You said you're planning to go back with a single piece, right?

Looks like that not only would be stronger, but would have been faster (ie cheaper) to produce in the first place.

gcarter
02-07-2008, 05:39 PM
I'll replace the pieces I removed with a single piece. But it's so difficult to remove the ones that aren't damaged, I'll leave the rest there.
The accident involving the chisel happened trying to remove one of them.
I think the scheme was to have a single size that could be used anywhere a core was needed, rather than cutting larger specific pieces.
I'd have gone for the dedicated piece.
Keep watching, I have a plan to make the whole thing better.

yeller
02-08-2008, 03:31 AM
Keep watching, I have a plan to make the whole thing better.Oh....that's so unlike you. :wink:

gcarter
02-08-2008, 01:39 PM
Got an early start today. Not often that happens.....after all, this is still a business!!!:propeller:
Today I opened up all the voids under the floor. The voids (unsupported areas) is where the cracks start.
The voids will eventually be filled w/glass strand filled polyester putty and then the whole bottom will receive two or more layers of Knytex.
I also had to cut a chunk of the core from behind the rear seat base. The only thing I had that could get in between the rear seat base and the battery box was a 4 1/2" grinder. No problem w/glass, but it kind of chewed through the 3/4" plywood core material....the smoke set off all the smoke detectors!!!!!!
Here's a few pics;
#18 shows the area of the floor bottom, the center hatch, the rear seat base, and the battery box. Note all the core has been removed in the area.

gcarter
02-08-2008, 01:42 PM
The next is where I shoved the chisel through the floor.:garfield:

gcarter
02-08-2008, 01:54 PM
The idea to repair the cracks and holes is to grind all the edges of the damaged areas at a taper of 1:12.....in other words, if you had a 'glass thickness of 1/4", your ground tapered edge would be about 3" wide. That can be a lot of grinding. Since the floor glass (if you want to call it that) is only about 1/16" thick (I'm not kidding...it's all a big joke) the ground tapered area is only about 1/2" to 3/4" wide. You have to be very careful because it's SOOOOOO fragile.
Then some sort of material can be waxed, or some material like polyethelyne the resin won't stick to is applied to the finished side (usually screwed). This "tool" or "jig" is used to lay up mat bonded glass to the back side. These pieces need to be pre-cut so they can be applied quickly.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=39139&d=1222822995

gcarter
02-08-2008, 01:57 PM
This is the stbd side at the rear seat front.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=39140&d=1222823047

gcarter
02-08-2008, 01:59 PM
This is the port front of the ****pit floor. This might be more challenging because the hole is so wide and there's so much curvature.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=39141&d=1222823097

gcarter
02-08-2008, 02:07 PM
Got me a new carb today that I got on eBay.
It's a new marine 4150 (800 CFM) double pumper. It had been on a display engine and never used. The first thing I did was smell of it, they weren't lying....it's never had gas in it.
Now I get to learn something about large Holleys...I already have an electric choke kit and fuel line on the way.
Onwards and upwards!:smash:

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=39142&d=1222823146

vonkamp
02-08-2008, 03:50 PM
Sweet! Want me to powdercoat it red for ya? :wink::wink:

Trueser
02-08-2008, 04:16 PM
Maybe Pink? George see's red in his sleep.

gcarter
02-09-2008, 12:32 PM
The first step to fixing this eggshell of a floor is to grind all the broken edges and back up the damage w/ something the resin won't stick to.
Now don't laugh at my "tooling".....what ever works is OK.
The white material on the smooth side of the floor is a piece of melamine....you know, the really cheap bathroom and kitchen paneling. Like polyethylene, resin won;t stick to it. Notice I have it screwed onto the floor w/one wood screw that went through a convenient snap hole. This holds all the pieces flat and backs up the new 'glass. The rest of the KLUGE is my attempt to get the shattered flanges all in the same plane. It worked, no matter what it looked like. It just has to stay there until the 'glass and resin sets up.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=39143&d=1222823213

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=39143&d=1222823213

gcarter
02-09-2008, 12:38 PM
The next picture shows the result of the 'glass layup. I filled all the holes and cracks w/several alyers of mat until the surface was reasonably flat. Next I layed on one large layer of mat followed by one layer of Knytex. After all this hardens, I still have to finish repairing the center hatch flange.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=39145&d=1222823260

gcarter
02-09-2008, 12:42 PM
This next picture is of the forward corner of the central hatch opening w/all the bottom skin removed. These voids around the core is why the floor cracks. In fact, if you look carefully, there are cracks showing on the bottom side of the floor. I will be filling all the voids on the bottom w/glass strand filled polyester putty. Then a layer of Knytex goes over the whole botton. No voids. No more cracks.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=39146&d=1222823308

mjw930
02-09-2008, 07:46 PM
George,

Since you have the deck off and know how things were attached I thought I would ask you a question.

I was going to replace the chair sliders on my '87 today with this one

http://www.springfieldgrp.com/uploads/Universal-Trac-lock-Slide.jpg

Because I'm tired of banging my ankle on the tension rod that sticks out and I wanted a more positive locking system but when I got the chair off the mount I noticed is was held on to the deck pedestal with 3 large slotted screws. By large I mean the heads on these tapered screws have to be 3/4" wide. Before I went to town on those screws I though I would ask you how they are fastened. It almost looks like they were mounted before the deck was put on and if they were I doubt I'll be able to screw them off, I'll probably have to drill the heads off.

So, should I just leave what's there on and simple shorten the tension rod or is removing that lower plate something that's viable without major surgery?

BTW, I was planning on using snap toggles and 4, 1/4 x 20 SS bolts to anchor the new base plate.

gcarter
02-09-2008, 08:18 PM
Sorry it took so long to find this, it's been awhile since I looked for it;
http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=33784
One advantage of the Garelick base is that it has a flat, flush base so the bolt pattern isn't restricted to the flanges in your picture.
It works really well.:smash:

mjw930
02-09-2008, 10:15 PM
Ok, so I see what's involved but you never posted what base you installed. Was it this one:

http://www.garelick.com/images/products/75081.jpg

If so then I assume the base plate has a hole in it so you can through bolt it with your mod. I think snap toggles would work also.

I found a thread on the Springfield base and I'm going to pass on installing them. The last thing I need to have it break while I'm running hard.

Since my factory sliders still work pretty well and the only real issue I have is the adjustment arm hitting my shins I think I'll just shorten the arm so it's closer to the side of the seat and clean and lube the sliders that are in there.

Thanks

gcarter
02-10-2008, 04:09 PM
I thought about toggles at the time, but the problem as I perceived it, is if you were to remove them again, the back side of the tgoggles would fall into the bilge.
The large hole has no downside, it's in the neutral axis of the pedistal top so you don't lose any strength. Also, as I mentioned, it's handy being able to reach into the bilge outside the stringers. Saved my butt several times.

mjw930
02-10-2008, 05:05 PM
I thought about toggles at the time, but the problem as I perceived it, is if you were to remove them again, the back side of the tgoggles would fall into the bilge.
The large hole has no downside, it's in the neutral axis of the pedistal top so you don't lose any strength. Also, as I mentioned, it's handy being able to reach into the bilge outside the stringers. Saved my butt several times.

Seeing that it's a block of plywood and as you say, it's on the axis then I agree and if I do change them out I'll drill a hole as well.

BTW, the snap toggles are unique in that they don't drop back out unless you over tighten them at which point the plastic breaks (which is does 90 % of the time ;) )

gcarter
02-12-2008, 03:16 PM
Big Griz came by yesterday on the way to his sister's and let me buy him lunch.....:pizza:

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=39147&d=1222823397

gcarter
02-12-2008, 03:20 PM
For the forward, lower ,port damage to the ****pit, I made good use of a polyester cutting sheet....you know, the kind you use in the kitchen. anyway, I cut a piece that fit pretty well and screwed it in.
Notice the judicious use of the long screwdriver again to get the pieces in place were they belong.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=39148&d=1222823463

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=39149&d=1222823463

gcarter
02-12-2008, 03:25 PM
And finally a couple of layers of Knytex on the corner. This will do until I can get the screws out and the Knytex sanded down. It needs to be reinforced quite a bit yet. Also the stbd side needs to be done. But it's in pretty good shape, it just has one quarter sized hole in it. I'll get it tomorrow.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=39150&d=1222823512

MOP
02-12-2008, 07:50 PM
A note to mjw930! If you are banging your ankles on the tension rods the seats have been switched from side to side, normally the rods are not in the walk way but out of the way on down on the outside within easy reach.

Phil

mjw930
02-12-2008, 08:25 PM
A note to mjw930! If you are banging your ankles on the tension rods the seats have been switched from side to side, normally the rods are not in the walk way but out of the way on down on the outside within easy reach.

Phil

I thought about that but if you swap them you can't get the shaft into the fitting because it hits the side of the ****pit. Unless you can insert them at an angle then swing it back after it's in far enough...... I never tried that, I just assumed....

Thanks, I'll see if I can swap them.

MOP
02-12-2008, 09:12 PM
I thought about that but if you swap them you can't get the shaft into the fitting because it hits the side of the ****pit. Unless you can insert them at an angle then swing it back after it's in far enough...... I never tried that, I just assumed....

Thanks, I'll see if I can swap them.

I have the same boat same seats, the hole where the rod goes through is egg shaped so you can angle it in.

Phil

mjw930
02-13-2008, 08:59 AM
I have the same boat same seats, the hole where the rod goes through is egg shaped so you can angle it in.

Phil

Thanks, and George, sorry to hijack your thread.

gcarter
02-24-2008, 08:40 PM
Business has been really keeping me busy, but I have been able to manage a bit of work on the TR.
I'm still working on reinforcing the ****pit bottom. After reinforcing the badly broken floor itself w/several layers of mat and 24 oz. Knytex stitchmat, I cut some pieces of 1/2" exterior plywood to replace the hodge podge of plywood coring supplied by Donzi.:smash:
I buttered (bedded) all these pieces in milled fiber filled polyester putty. I used quite a bit of the putty so that when I screwed the pieces on from the floor side, I got a nice SQUISH. I used somee 1" long self tapping hex head screws w/fender washers so that I knew I would be able to get the screws back out when the putty hardened.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=39151&d=1222823577

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=39152&d=1222823577

gcarter
02-24-2008, 08:55 PM
Just a reminder, the reason the floor cracks so easily is because there is insufficient reinforcement in the floor and a lot of voids like this;
http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34117&d=1202582562
So to fill all the voids before I lay more glass on the bottom, I used more milled fiber filled polyester putty........more than 1/2 gallon of it. I will smooth all the putty and fair the whole bottom. Some time this week I will turn the deck over on its top. Doing so will allow me to easily reiforce certain "challenged" areas around the ****pit.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=39153&d=1222823662

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=39154&d=1222823662

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=39155&d=1222823662

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=39156&d=1222823662

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=39157&d=1222823662

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=39158&d=1222823673

gcarter
03-03-2008, 12:06 PM
I got the deck flipped over last week and this weekend accomplished a lot.
The deck is setting on four furniture dollies w/a bag of water softener salt on each of them (think of a bean bag).
More pictures to follow.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=39159&d=1222823726

gcarter
03-05-2008, 07:20 PM
The following pictures were taken last Saturday.
Once I got the deck flat on the dollies, I was able to finish filling in around the edges of the ****pit floor before I laid glass over the whole floor.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=39160&d=1222823783

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=39161&d=1222823828

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=39162&d=1222823828

gcarter
03-05-2008, 07:26 PM
I had recently ordered some 52" wide 24 OZ Knytex to put on the ****pit bottom.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=39163&d=1222823905

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=39164&d=1222823905

gcarter
03-05-2008, 07:37 PM
The challenging part is always to get the glass onto the part w/o stretching it badly in the amount of time you have.....
Also notice the reinforcements in the corners of the seat pedistals, plus another layer of reinforcement on the battery box bottom.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=39165&d=1222823968

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=39166&d=1222823968

gcarter
03-05-2008, 07:42 PM
Another area on these boats that require some help is the windshield coaming and the raised area around the rear of the back seat. There's no use trying to fix the gelcoat when it will crack again w/o some more reinforcement.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=39167&d=1222824056

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=39168&d=1222824056

gcarter
03-05-2008, 07:47 PM
Saturday afternoon Ken Ciocci (Minx Guy) dropped by.....
What in the world was he doing out of New England?????
Actually he's repping Spectro Oils at the track in Daytona during bike week.
If anyone else wants to come by and see it, my office # is 352-365-2337. You're always welcome.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=39169&d=1222824116

gcarter
03-06-2008, 07:31 AM
I continued on reinforcing the windshield coaming......
Also notice the deck edge reinforcement where it had been cracked from impact.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=39170&d=1222824213

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=39171&d=1222824213

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=39172&d=1222824213

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=39173&d=1222824213

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=39174&d=1222824213

gcarter
03-06-2008, 07:41 AM
Back to the ****kpit bottom.......
I added another layer of Knytex to the outside corners of the floor, and a 8" wide strip to the area of the stringers/floor support on both port and stbd. sides.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=39175&d=1222824268

BigGrizzly
03-06-2008, 09:40 AM
Work and more work, your making me feel old, and I am 5 hours younger!

Tim Morris
03-06-2008, 01:35 PM
Saturday afternoon Ken Ciocci (Minx Guy) dropped by.....


...and a fine looking speciman he is too!

gcarter
03-06-2008, 01:44 PM
...and a fine looking speciman he is too!
An d if you notice Tim, he is warmer and more lightly dressed than you are....:cool::wink:

gcarter
03-13-2008, 05:05 PM
Trying to wrap up the deck and get it gelled before it gets warm. I did some smoothing around the hatch, the seat back, and battery box.
On picture #58, note the 'glass reinforcement in the area of the hatch hinges.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=39176&d=1222824338

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=39177&d=1222824338

gcarter
03-13-2008, 05:07 PM
And this is what it looks like with one coat of white Bilgekote on it. Ya gotta be careful w/it cause it likes to run like water.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34759&d=1205446013

yeller
03-13-2008, 05:23 PM
Trying to wrap up the deck and get it gelled before it gets warm.Before it gets warm....southeners :rolleyes:

Coming alone nicely George. What's the purpose of the hole at the back seat base?

gcarter
03-13-2008, 06:29 PM
It came with its very own cam changing hole.
Actually, I bought a three piece timing cover, so I could easily change it insitu.:smash:

gcarter
03-14-2008, 08:44 AM
Also, I epoxied a piece of PVC board to the bottom of the deck right behind the instrument panel. This is to be used for mounting wiring terminal strips and ground buss bars.
I really don't like to make unneccesary holes in the deck core.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34765&d=1205502220

mjw930
03-14-2008, 08:54 AM
And this is what it looks like with one coat of white Bilgekote on it. Ya gotta be careful w/it cause it likes to run like water.

Ah, Bilgekote, I was going to ask in another thread but you opened the door here. I need to repaint the underside of my hatch and am planning on using Bilgekote. What's the best way to prep the surface? Do I really need to sand or can I get away with using a cleaner / solvent to clean up the old surface?

gcarter
03-14-2008, 09:00 AM
Ah, Bilgekote, I was going to ask in another thread but you opened the door here. I need to repaint the underside of my hatch and am planning on using Bilgekote. What's the best way to prep the surface? Do I really need to sand or can I get away with using a cleaner / solvent to clean up the old surface?
The stuff will stick to anything. If you want just the minimum of prep, just clean the grease off it.

gcarter
03-14-2008, 01:01 PM
Here's one coat of white BilgeKote on the underside of the fore deck The idea is not show quality, but to just lighten it up under there when you're forced there for some reason. This is one of the things on the Minx I would have changed given the opportunity. :doh:

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34767&d=1205517682

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34768&d=1205517682

gcarter
03-15-2008, 11:54 AM
This morning was surprisingly easy. See pictures below.
I started out by installing the strap again and hanging two of the comealongs. Next I started picking up the port side. The CG of the deck is right at the instrument panel so the rear point doesn't do much except help stabilize it. So it's a few minutes of "one armed paper hanger" up and down the ladders until it starts to flip over on the other side.:eek!: This is really the only tense time because I wasn't exactly sure how fast it would roll over. When you're by yourself 7' up on a ladder, you want to be careful.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34778&d=1205599874

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34779&d=1205599874

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34780&d=1205599906

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34781&d=1205599906

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34782&d=1205599991

gcarter
03-15-2008, 12:08 PM
Fortunately, while the rising side moves upward, the dollies supporting the bottom side keep moving toward the center. Ya just gotta be careful they don't move too far all at once and maybe knock the ladder over.....at least that's what you're thinking while it's happening.
At this point, I reattached the center support (an eye bolt through the anchor light hole bolted through a 2 X 4 on the bottom side) and hooked it up to a third comealong.
When it finally rolled over center (a lot less drama than I expected) I started tensioning the center line lift and letting out on the outboard comealong. I then put the rear scaffold somewhat in place and continued this process until it was somewhat level. Since the aft support point is so light, it's easy to lift the aft deck and position the rear scaffold properly. Then it was just a matter of raising the bow until I could roll the forward scaffold into place.:smash:

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34783&d=1205600824

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34784&d=1205600824

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34785&d=1205600855

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34786&d=1205600855

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34787&d=1205600879

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34788&d=1205600879

ITTLFLI
03-15-2008, 08:20 PM
Looking good George!!!

gcarter
03-16-2008, 08:50 PM
Today was the first time I had a chance to accomplish any positive cosmetic work on the deck since I started on it. All of the work on the ****pit bottom (several weeks) was an absolutely essential, necessary undertaking, but it and of itself didn't do anything for the aesthetics of the deck, only its integrity. So, today I was able to remove paint and automotive style (read Bondo) repairs to the damaged corners of the ****pit floor.
The first picture is of the lower forward port corner after all the repairs. it is ready for filling w/milled fiber filled polyester putty and then gelcote.
http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34814&d=1205718286
Then the next picture is what it was like before I started. Keep in mind, damage like this isn't all that unusual on 22's of this era. I know I have pictures of other boats w/similar damage.
http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33941&d=1202012779

gcarter
03-16-2008, 09:02 PM
Here are a couple of other locations, like both port and stbd sides just in front of the rear seat. These areas were torn all the way through the floor. I don't think it will happen again. The large round repair visible in the middle picture is where I shoved a chisel through the floor from the bottom while trying to remove one of the plywood core blocks.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34815&d=1205719315

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34816&d=1205719344

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34817&d=1205719356

gcarter
03-16-2008, 09:08 PM
I'm leaving tomorrow for two weeks. I'll be going to Vegas for a convention for a week, but first we're going to northern California for a week.

gcarter
04-04-2008, 11:15 AM
Always a problem on older glass boats. I cut out the cracks w/ a Dremel w/a carbide cutter. Works pretty good. Then a little filling w/polyester putty followed by sanding flush w/ a D-A sander. Of course I'm gelling the entire boat so I don't have to take any extraordinary measure like I would if I were repairing gel and filling the cracks w/patch paste.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=35114&d=1207325708

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=35115&d=1207325708

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=35116&d=1207325708

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=35117&d=1207325708

gcarter
04-04-2008, 11:22 AM
Now we get to the hard part.....;
In front of the rear seat on the port side the floor ripped all the way through...
http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34033&d=1202414148
Of course I seriously reinforced it and it's probably about 500 times stronger than when Donzi built it.
However.....the damage to the miniscule amount of glass Donzi included in the ****pit bottom cracked along w/the gel.
http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=35118&d=1207326117
So, does anyone have any ideas what I can do to this area so the cracks from the substrate don't "print" through?

gcarter
04-09-2008, 08:36 AM
Well, I really was sorta waiting for someone to offer a suggestion on what to do..........
So finally I took matters into my own hands once again and used the 4 1/2" right angle grinder w/80 grit paper on the disk and ground out all the original Donzi applied glass. If you happen to remember, there was only one thin layer of mat under the gel, so that's why they crack so easily.
Now there's two layers of mat, two layers of 24 oz. Knytex, one contiguous piece of 1/2" plywood coring followed by three more layers of Knytex in that area.
I don't think the floor will miss the measley single layer of mat I ground out.
Then as you can see, I filled the resultant hollow area w/milled fiber filled polyester putty. It ain't pretty but it's flat and smooth.
http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=35247&d=1207748187
There're a number of places on the deck and hull where I'm planning to sort of "prime" the gelled surfaces w/red gel and go over the surface once more to make sure everything is smooth, filled, and flush w/gel.
I'm ordering my Minicraft Pihrana Donzi red gel (five gallons) next week.
The plan is to gel the ****pit first, cover it, then gel the rest of the deck, hang it out of the way again, and move on to the hull. I gotta get this done before the Love Bug season starts.

MOP
04-09-2008, 12:34 PM
Well, I really was sorta waiting for someone to offer a suggestion on what to do..........
So finally I took matters into my own hands once again and used the 4 1/2" right angle grinder w/80 grit paper on the disk and ground out all the original Donzi applied glass. If you happen to remember, there was only one thin layer of mat under the gel, so that's why they crack so easily.
Now there's two layers of mat, two layers of 24 oz. Knytex, one contiguous piece of 1/2" plywood coring followed by three more layers of Knytex in that area.
I don't think the floor will miss the measley single layer of mat I ground out.
Then as you can see, I filled the resultant hollow area w/milled fiber filled polyester putty. It ain't pretty but it's flat and smooth.
http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=35247&d=1207748187
There're a number of places on the deck and hull where I'm planning to sort of "prime" the gelled surfaces w/red gel and go over the surface once more to make sure everything is smooth, filled, and flush w/gel.
I'm ordering my Minicraft Pihrana Donzi red gel (five gallons) next week.
The plan is to gel the ****pit first, cover it, then gel the rest of the deck, hang it out of the way again, and move on to the hull. I gotta get this done before the Love Bug season starts.

I have to say George considering what you have taken on you are doing a bang up job and at a good pace as usual, and yes hurry before the "Love Bug" bites you!!!

Phil

gcarter
04-09-2008, 02:58 PM
Went ahead and ordered the gel today........
the red Piranha is over $100.00/gallon in five gallon quantities!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek!:

I'm going to try PVA this time....maybe in the ****pit as a trial.

Also, Minicraft has a gel thinner that they claim is a very thin gel so that no styrene or acetone is used that would change or affect the gel composition.

samjannarone
04-09-2008, 04:38 PM
Great looking restoration! Thanks for posting all the pictures, I learned a lot from them and the narrative as well. Can't wait to see the gel.

gcarter
04-11-2008, 01:14 PM
Anyone want to guess what the billl was for these items?????

I'll tell you what, for the person guessing the closest to the actual invoice, I'll buy them one of Mr. Poodles stickers.

There's a big hint above. And the list includes;
5 one gallon cans of Minicraft Piranha gel (Donzi red)
1 pint of PVA
1 pint of wax
1 pint of catalist (MEKP)
1 gallon slow reducer (thinner)

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=35276&d=1207937629

Conquistador_del_mar
04-11-2008, 01:23 PM
You are taking on quite a project! My guess is $785.00 for the listed materials. Bill


Anyone want to guess what the billl was for these items?????

I'll tell you what, for the person guessing the closest to the actual invoice, I'll buy them one of Mr. Poodles stickers.

There's a big hint above. And the list includes;
5 one gallon cans of Minicraft Piranha gel (Donzi red)
1 pint of PVA
1 pint of wax
1 pint of catalist (MEKP)
1 gallon slow reducer (thinner)

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=35276&d=1207937629

glashole
04-11-2008, 01:24 PM
$680 before taxes

Tim Morris
04-11-2008, 02:10 PM
Poodle's sticker is $6.50,
so I'm gonna say $650.

(or was 'billl' the hint?)
maybe a billion pesos.

VetteLT193
04-11-2008, 02:48 PM
$1,150

Edumukated guess based on the fact that gel isn't cheap.:doh:

MOP
04-11-2008, 03:05 PM
$693.50

BUIZILLA
04-11-2008, 03:20 PM
$926

cutwater
04-11-2008, 03:32 PM
$615 before tax. Are we playing Price is Right rules? :)

Ed Donnelly
04-11-2008, 04:12 PM
747 has a nice ring to it................Ed

gcarter
04-12-2008, 07:36 PM
Got in a whole day. Finished up a bunch of details so I could gel the ****pit today.
First, this project is a bunch of work, but there are some rewards;
Before;
http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33941&d=1202012779

After reinforcing the bottom;
http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34814&d=1205718286

And the way it looked today;
http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=35284&d=1208046973

gcarter
04-12-2008, 07:57 PM
Probably many of you have never sprayed gel before. Something that helps a lot is to put a baggy inside the gun's can. DeVilbis makes a kit to accomplish this. The kit includes a plastic fitting that is permanently installed into the throat of the can. A plastic insert is then installed into the bottom of the baggy w/a tool that's supplied w/the kit. Then the same tool is used to install the baggy and insert into the can. Using the baggy, you can even use the gun upside down. One of the things to remember is to not overfill the baggy. Even though the can is one quart, it's difficult to seal the baggy if there's much over one pint of gel or paint in the baggy. Obviously it's also easier to to clean the gun w/the baggy. Ya just gotta remember to let the gun suck the baggy dry before you pull it out of the can.
#24; The tool w/the insert on the of it.
#25; Ditto w/the insert installed in the baggy.
#26; The baggy installed into the can.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=35289&d=1208048217

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=35290&d=1208048217

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=35291&d=1208048217

gcarter
04-12-2008, 08:01 PM
The ****pit is ready to gel. I've washed it down w/acetone about three times.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=35292&d=1208048481

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=35293&d=1208048481

gcarter
04-12-2008, 08:07 PM
Here's the gel and the additives necessary for the gel;
A syringe w/10mL of MEKP
1 oz of wax
3 oz of reducer (thinner)
A one quart container
Gel
The idea is to mix it all together in the container and come up w/not much more than 16 oz of catalyzed gel. Pour it into the baggy installed in the gun. Seal the baggy and spray.

gcarter
04-12-2008, 08:09 PM
And this is what you end up with.
http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=35295&d=1208048948

Ubderstand that getting the gel into the ****pit is just the start of another whole process.

cutwater
04-12-2008, 10:17 PM
All I can offer you is moral support, but dang that looks good! :thumbsup:

rustnrot
04-13-2008, 02:28 PM
George, that is fantastic. My hat is off to you as I will never attempt a gel job.

Is getting the gel on to a critical minimum thickness important? How does one measure this?

BUIZILLA
04-13-2008, 03:43 PM
George.... what is that little access hole behind the battery box for?? :smash:

gcarter
04-13-2008, 03:55 PM
George, that is fantastic. My hat is off to you as I will never attempt a gel job.

Is getting the gel on to a critical minimum thickness important? How does one measure this?
This isn't for the faint of heart as there many pitfalls and I've still a lot to learn.
The thickness is important and there is a scratch gauge you can use. It sortof looks like a comb with varying lengths of teeth.
There is a lot of sanding of the gel to make it look right. If it's not thick enough it's easy to sand right through it. Of course if you do sand through, you just spray some more on.
Spraying it is challenging. It's fairly thick, even though I thin it 25% w/Minicraft's thinner. It produces a lot of orangepeel, but it doesn't run. You just have to understand there's still a lot of work to do after it';s sprayed on.

gcarter
04-13-2008, 04:00 PM
George.... what is that little access hole behind the battery box for?? :smash:
It seems to line up perfectly w/the camshaft.
However, it didn't have a two piece timing cover, so it still wouldn't have been easy to R&R the cam. One of the things I've purchased for the engine is a multi part cover.

Ed Donnelly
04-13-2008, 04:10 PM
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm Sounds like this one is a keeper...Ed

MOP
04-13-2008, 04:48 PM
It seems to line up perfectly w/the camshaft.
However, it didn't have a two piece timing cover, so it still wouldn't have been easy to R&R the cam. One of the things I've purchased for the engine is a multi part cover.


Hmm I see you are making sure you have the option of swapping the cam to something warmer!

gcarter
04-13-2008, 06:22 PM
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm Sounds like this one is a keeper...Ed
Ed, everything is always available.
I've been thinking a lot about vintage bikes.
Also, I wouldn't mind doing a hotrod.

gcarter
04-14-2008, 03:12 PM
$680 before taxes
Shea was the closest with the above bid.
The actual cost before taxes was $671.98. I was amazed at how close he was. I informed him that his rather remarkabe guess was the winner but he declined Poodle's sticker for a beer the next time I get to 1000 Islands.
Sorry Scott. I tried to give one away.:doh:

MOP
04-14-2008, 08:32 PM
George the gel looks great, but when will you learn to spell KOCKPIT!

zelatore
04-15-2008, 10:20 AM
It's looking good! Some day I'm going to go back to Florida and I'm expecting to see that rig in person!

gcarter
04-15-2008, 12:14 PM
It's looking good! Some day I'm going to go back to Florida and I'm expecting to see that rig in person!
By that time it will be finished. LOL :smash:

gcarter
12-24-2008, 03:19 PM
I wanted to try out my new (to me) Hutchins air file to flatten the sides of the hull to prep for gelling soon.
After spending quite a bit of time w/the Hutchins and then about 10 minutes w/a 16" block.......guess what?
The block wins!
It's a lot more work for sure, but it cuts MUCH faster. No comparison between a 3/8" stroke and a 12"-15" stroke.
LONGER is better.
Here's a picture;

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=41406&d=1230153583

gcarter
12-24-2008, 03:25 PM
Do ya wonder what that shiny spot is near the transom?

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=41423&d=1230170301

It's exactly what it looks like.....a "hook" in the side. It apparently originated in the mold...came out too soon.....got too hot? Who knows.
But I'll treat it just like I did the hooks on the Minx bottom......define the perimeter, grind out the gel, fill w/glass filled polyester putty.

gcarter
12-24-2008, 05:25 PM
While repairing the deck, I found a couple of cases of dock rash. When I sanded off the paint, I found someone had tried to repair it from the top.
Folks, don't waste your time trying to do this......it'll reappear pretty quick.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=41414&d=1230164200

The problem with the edges of Donzi decks, is the same problem in the cockpit bottom.....not enough stranded material. In fact, from the edge of the shoebox, to the edge of the plywood core, all of the material is 3/16" mat covered by gel. So if you bump the dock hard, it WILL crack.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=41415&d=1230164200

First, you have to reinforce the deck bottom. I did this while the deck was upside down.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=39172&d=1222824213

Then when it wa right side up again, I ground out the mat (ya gotta get rid of all the broken glass/mat). Then I filled the ground out area with glass filled polyester putty (ya may have to do this two or three times until it's completely fair).

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=41416&d=1230164278
http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=41417&d=1230164278

gcarter
12-24-2008, 06:42 PM
On the port transom corner, there was another spot that was really bad. It had been hit really hard and there was a clean break all the way through the glass at the top of the shoe box.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=41418&d=1230165733

The first thing I did was to reinforce the inside of the shoe box with about two or three layers of Knytex stitchmat.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=41419&d=1230165733

Then I ground out the broken glass on the outside corner

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=41420&d=1230165756

Following that, I filled in the ground out area with glass filled polyester putty.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=41421&d=1230165756

It takes several applications to get it right.

Conquistador_del_mar
12-25-2008, 10:29 AM
I wanted to try out my new (to me) Hutchins air file to flatten the sides of the hull to prep for gelling soon.
After spending quite a bit of time w/the Hutchins and then about 10 minutes w/a 16" block.......guess what?
The block wins!
It's a lot more work for sure, but it cuts MUCH faster. No comparison between a 3/8" stroke and a 12"-15" stroke.
LONGER is better.
Here's a picture;

George,
When you bought the straight line action Hutchins air file sander, I was worried that it might not work like the orbital action Hutchins that I have used with such great results over the years. I want to offer you the use of my Hutchins to see if it makes the difference. I will not be needing it for a while so you can use it. It takes a fairly large capacity air compressor to run it constantly or you can wait for your compressor to catch up if you don't have a large compressor. Just email me your address, and it will be on its way. 80 to 100 grit takes down a surface very quickly. You can use the exhaust on the back side to blow material out of your way on a horizontal surface, but you probably are working on a fairly vertical surface doing the sides so the material will drop out of your way.
On another note, when you have added glass to the back side of the deck lip, do you try to get it back to the same level? In other words, have you ever had trouble with the deck not wanting to fit back on the hull due to having too much material buildup? Great pictures you showed. Bill

gcarter
12-25-2008, 12:19 PM
Hi Bill;
I'm pretty careful about letting the thickness build up too much. Also most boats have quite a bit of gap. But after sitting and hanging for months, it went right back on w/no trouble.
Thanks for the offer of the sander. Addy will be on the way soon.

gcarter
12-26-2008, 09:04 PM
After about two more hours of sanding yesterday, I finished sanding and flattening the port hull side.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=41458&d=1230347029

Then I lifted the transom w/a comealong and leaned the hull over onto the port side to raise the stbd hull side to sand it. And after starting on the stbd side at the transom I discovered another "hook" on that side also.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=41459&d=1230347029

Different shape and smaller also. Really odd though, it is completely flat for about 1" and then sinks.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=41460&d=1230347029

After about 2 1/2 hours, I finished sanding the stbd side.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=41462&d=1230347059

SilverBack
12-27-2008, 01:23 AM
Looking good George!!! Are you fixing this boat up to sell it? What power are you putting in it? What drive??

gcarter
12-27-2008, 08:00 AM
Yeah, I'll sell it.
The boat came w/one of the very first Bravo units available. It has no fluid reservoir and no accomodation for it, and the drain is in the front of the bullet like an Alpha. The drive appears to be in very good condition and my plans are to split it, take it to bare metal, and properly re-finish it.
The boat also came with Hynautic Power Planes, which if you've seen them, are much neater than K-Planes. Additionally, it came w/external Hynautic dual K-5 cylinders which were origionally non-boosted. I plan to re-use the cylinders because they're period correct, but boost them w/the usual Saginaw pump and Eaton Char-Lynn helm (I already have both).
The original owner in '93 (after the warranty expired) had a fairly radical Mark IV 454 built to replace the original. He spent a good amount of money on it but only has 100 or so hours on it. It came w/Gil/Mercruiser exhaust manifolds and dry pipes, a Dart high rise intake manifold topped w/a Holley Dominator carb. I won't even get into the rediculous cam that was in it (it was good for 6500 RPM).
My plans are to refresh the engine, de-tune it slightly and probably follow the Merc "420" guidelines which would also be period correct.
Of course it'll have closed cooling, a transom pickup, and a sea strainer.
The interior will be pretty much stock but w/an updated dash w/Monster gauges and decent waterproof switch gear.
The deck will have a lot of flush fitting hardware and some neat "optical" tricks I'll try with them.

BigGrizzly
12-27-2008, 10:33 AM
Hey,George has your Wife figured out that the only reason you do this is to buy new tools. Hey it worked for me!:wink:

gcarter
12-27-2008, 01:40 PM
Hey,George has your Wife figured out that the only reason you do this is to buy new tools. Hey it worked for me!:wink:
It's worked so far.
I'd never have an air dryer, or two air files w/o this project.

gcarter
12-27-2008, 01:47 PM
Today I ground out the two hooks located at both sides of the stern.
The stbd side was smaller and will be easier to fix.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=41468&d=1230407257

The port side was a different issue. I really think Donzi missed a course of glass there. Take a look at the pictures. At the gunnels once the gel was ground away, the hull is barely 1/8" thick.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=41469&d=1230407257
http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=41470&d=1230407257

I'm concerned when I find things like this. I'll add a course of 24 oz. Knytex along the inside of the hull. What's really amazing is the stbd side at the same spot is at least 1/4" thick

MOP
12-27-2008, 02:44 PM
Wonder what the line boys were smokin that day??????????

Conquistador_del_mar
12-27-2008, 07:07 PM
George,
That really is disturbing. It is a wonder that the hull did not fracture there where it was so thin. That hull has the partial transom - correct? Bill