PDA

View Full Version : Marine Engines



Donziweasel
08-15-2007, 01:04 PM
Got a little project in mind (yes it has to do with a Donzi and no it is not my current 16) and was wondering the major differences between marine engines vs. auto engines. I know Marine uses a different camshaft, and carbureted, has to have a spark arrestor and marine carb. Any other differences?

martin22zx
08-15-2007, 01:17 PM
I am not at all certain but there seems to be a great debate regarding bearing clearence on a auto vs boat application due to operating rpm and load and etc.. Ask someone more experienced than me and then we'll both know...

vonkamp
08-15-2007, 02:44 PM
Here's a thread when I asked that a couple years ago.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=37461

Soooo....What you got your eye on John??

mrfixxall
08-15-2007, 04:26 PM
Got a little project in mind (yes it has to do with a Donzi and no it is not my current 16) and was wondering the major differences between marine engines vs. auto engines. I know Marine uses a different camshaft, and carbureted, has to have a spark arrestor and marine carb. Any other differences?

standard bearing clearance in a car is .003/ in a boat .005..piston to wall +.oo2, more nickel content in the block,inconel valves bla lbla lba..

Donziweasel
08-15-2007, 05:00 PM
Thanks for the link Barry, good reading.

I received a good offer on my company last week and am getting close to selling. I need a project to keep me from going crazy in semi-retirement. If not, I would probably start posting in the morning about how my coffee tastes and then it would go down hill throughout the day!:bonk::bonk::bonk:

I originally joined these boards for info on restorations, of which this is an amazing resource. No one told me it would take a year to sell my company.:mad::crossfing: Now that I am getting close, I have some engines laying around my company that I would possibly like to re-build and put in a restored ?:eek!:. I have a 383, 350, 454, and a couple of wierd ones, 345 International, 360 Jeep, 304 Jeep, etc..... They are complete rebuilds as they have been laying around a while. I have now done a complete top end (twice) and think I could handle a build. I am sure Rootsy, Buiz and MP are now cringing at the amount of calls they may get.:wink::):bonk:

Anyway, we have purchased the 3 acres, planned the new house, guest house and most importantly, my new shop. 2000 sq ft and fully loaded. I have wanted to do a resto for a long time and am really starting to think about it. Now I will have the time, space, tools and most importantly, money to do it. I know I could buy a crate engine, but where is the fun (and aggravation) in that? :wink:

I do have my eye on a candidate boat, but have to be quiet for now. In other words I am pulling a GCarter.:idea:

Barry, BTW, ever run the Edel?

Mike, thanks for the info also. From what I have read, it seems most is the same except some clearances. Everything save for the cam and carb on my top end is auto and the engine seems fine. Not sure about the lower end.

mrfixxall
08-15-2007, 05:10 PM
Thanks for the link Barry, good reading.
I received a good offer on my company last week and am getting close to selling. I need a project to keep me from going crazy in semi-retirement. If not, I would probably start posting in the morning about how my coffee tastes and then it would go down hill throughout the day!:bonk::bonk::bonk:
I originally joined these boards for info on restorations, of which this is an amazing resource. No one told me it would take a year to sell my company.:mad::crossfing: Now that I am getting close, I have some engines laying around my company that I would possibly like to re-build and put in a restored ?:eek!:. I have a 383, 350, 454, and a couple of wierd ones, 345 International, 360 Jeep, 304 Jeep, etc..... They are complete rebuilds as they have been laying around a while. I have now done a complete top end (twice) and think I could handle a build. I am sure Rootsy, Buiz and MP are now cringing at the amount of calls they may get.:wink::):bonk:
Anyway, we have purchased the 3 acres, planned the new house, guest house and most importantly, my new shop. 2000 sq ft and fully loaded. I have wanted to do a resto for a long time and am really starting to think about it. Now I will have the time, space, tools and most importantly, money to do it. I know I could buy a crate engine, but where is the fun (and aggravation) in that? :wink:
I do have my eye on a candidate boat, but have to be quiet for now. In other words I am pulling a GCarter.:idea:
Barry, BTW, ever run the Edel?
Mike, thanks for the info also. From what I have read, it seems most is the same except some clearances. Everything save for the cam and carb on my top end is auto and the engine seems fine. Not sure about the lower end.

454, and a couple of wierd ones

Hmmmmmmm,,that would fit in the 16:wink:

Donziweasel
08-15-2007, 05:22 PM
A 454 16, hmmmmm...........? If the back end didn't sink.........:bonk:

mrfixxall
08-15-2007, 05:26 PM
it wont,,,,theirs no replacement for displacement

Donziweasel
08-15-2007, 05:33 PM
Interesting project, but I am on to bigger (at least longer) things. I will say the condidate ain't a classic 16, 18 or 22, but still a Donzi.

BUIZILLA
08-15-2007, 07:42 PM
standard bearing clearance in a car is .003/ in a boat .005..piston to wall +.oo2, more nickel content in the block,inconel valves bla lbla lba.. unless you want the crankshaft in the bilge mating with the bilge pump, you won't use those clearances :toiletpap

vonkamp
08-15-2007, 08:12 PM
Barry, BTW, ever run the Edel?

Not yet. Still have other stuff to do before the engine goes in. It's just too hot and I'm more into fishing for the time being. :yes: :lobster:

mrfixxall
08-15-2007, 10:16 PM
unless you want the crankshaft in the bilge mating with the bilge pump, you won't use those clearances :toiletpap


Ya mabe if you had a buick motor in it:yes:

vonkamp
08-15-2007, 10:44 PM
http://www.nzmaths.co.nz/Measurement/Volume/VolumeImages/popcorn.gif

Rootsy
08-16-2007, 06:40 AM
unless you want the crankshaft in the bilge mating with the bilge pump, you won't use those clearances :toiletpap

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n27/jaroot13/emoticons/yeahthat.gif

Carl C
08-16-2007, 07:47 AM
360 Jeep, 304 Jeep Those are good motors but I don't know how they'd work in a boat. A lot of folks don't know that AMC/Jeep built several of their own motors. The most reliable one was probably the 4.0 inline six. I think any motor can be marinized by beefing it up. Pistons and valvetrain need attention as mentioned. How about an open motor V-drive or jet? I miss seeing those and you could use more automotive components such as WAY cheaper headers mounted upside down and no need to worry about sparks.

BigGrizzly
08-16-2007, 10:13 AM
Gee wiz I have been doing it all wrong for years. I always set up the engines the same as autos, and the specifics on the piston I use. However I don't use Hypereutectic pistons and won't. This is a personal thing with the ring setup they use. Do you guys know that the Honda car engines are set up from the factory at 0.0006" no misprint here. My Criterion is less than 0.002" and the Corsican 351 Cleveland is right at 0.002" Oh yes I forgot my Criterion does not use as much oil as a stock 502 Merc. Remember Guys it is the combination that is the real issue, Wrong cam and everything changes.

mrfixxall
08-16-2007, 11:31 AM
unless you want the crankshaft in the bilge mating with the bilge pump, you won't use those clearances :toiletpap
ok my fingers spoke before my mind did,,,,,.003 max on oil oil clearence,,,.002+ above piston mfr reccomended clearence..

yeller
08-16-2007, 12:07 PM
Originally Posted by Donziweasel
360 Jeep, 304 Jeep


Those are good motors but I don't know how they'd work in a boat. A lot of folks don't know that AMC/Jeep built several of their own motors.

YEA, now your talking! Use the AMC motor. :wink: :wink:

BTW Carl, AMC built ALL their own motors (except the 4 bangers).

MOP
08-16-2007, 12:22 PM
Any engine can be converted for marine use though I would tend to shy away from aluminum blocks. Use the right pistons prefer forged but hypernetic is passable, bearings, proper cam profile and brass casting plugs (Mistakenly called freeze out plugs).
Flagship used IH blocks with very good success a real work horse, still a few kicking around though most were junked when the boats they were in died!

Phil

Ed Donnelly
08-16-2007, 12:34 PM
yeller; 69 Javelin and AMX 390 motors. Not ford???...Ed

Carl C
08-16-2007, 02:20 PM
YEA, now your talking! Use the AMC motor. :wink: :wink:
BTW Carl, AMC built ALL their own motors (except the 4 bangers).And the V-6, 2.8L

yeller; 69 Javelin and AMX 390 motors. Not ford???...Ed No not Ford. The AMC 390 had a bigger bore/shorter stroke than the Ford 390. A lot of people think the 360 is a Chrysler motor-it's not. It's surprising that little AMC made their own motors but when the energy crunch hit they began buying smaller motors from GM like the "iron duke" 4 banger and the POS V-6. They also made a 401.

BUIZILLA
08-16-2007, 02:26 PM
then there's the stickly bellhousing equation...

Carl C
08-16-2007, 02:34 PM
That's an interesting collection of motors but I'd only consider the 454 for a boat:boat:. Sell the others on e-bay to folks who are restoring cars:convertib:.

yeller
08-17-2007, 10:59 AM
yeller; 69 Javelin and AMX 390 motors. Not ford???...EdCarl got it right. All the V8's were small blocks and identical externally.
They also had a 327 in the 60's...not Chevy.


And the V-6, 2.8L You are right Carl. I should have said they made all their own V8's and inline 6's.

A little know fact about AMC. They were very tough contenders in the Trans AM circuit when they entered in 69. Actually won the series in 70 (or was it 71) and were the last of the manufactures to leave the sport.

I have heard that some AMC's had been used in boats, although I've never seen one. I really, really, wanted to put my 401 in my 16 but lack of exhaust (and as Buizilla says) bellhousing held me back.

Sorry for sidetracking DW. Not often I get a chance to talk AMC's though.