CID- 1990's vs present

[Donziweasel]

Just a thought, does it seem that boat builders are becoming more restrictive on engine size now than, let's say, 10 years ago. Case in point-

I had a 1997 21 ft bow rider (Milan) with a stock 454 in 1997. You can't hardly find a BB in a 21 ft bowrider anywhere now.

22ZX's came with BB at one time, not anymore.

18 Classics with Scorpions, now only 6.2L

16 Classics with 350's, now only a 305.

Just a few examples.

Must be liability or fuel prices. Hmmmm.......:confused:

[zelatore]

Liability may be part of it, but consider that better engineering and electronics have given us much better power out of smaller motors.

For example, the 'standard' rating for a 454 inboard was 330-350 hp for a loooong time. Whether that was Merc, Crusader, or Volvo, they were all about the same.

Now look at these number for current small blocks in the same application:

Crusader 5.7 - 320 hp
Crusader 6.0 - 375 hp (we run a lot of this engine btw)
Merc 6.2 MPI - 320 hp
Volvo 5.7 GXi - 320 hp

Factor in that the small blocks are much lighter and take up less space (read easier to service - thank God) and you can see some reasons the big blocks are dropping away.

The biggest negative, at least in my applications, is that the smaller motors don't make as much bottom end torque so when you're manuvering around the docks at idle speeds it seems like nothing happens when you put it in gear. You need to give it a little shot of throttle to get things to do what you want, which just makes thing harder. Especially for new boaters trying to learn how to handle their first large(ish) boat.

My own 32 Carver Montigo has Crusader 454's. Should I keep it long enough that I repower (unlikely) I'd probabalby go with the 6.2 Crusaders since they would offer more hp, lighter weight, lower fuel consumption, and most importantly on this boat better service access!

Oh, and yeah, I think there's a certain amount of legal worring as well. On a couple of occasions we've had customers ask for bigger power in a given hull than was on the option sheet and the manufactuers declined as they were worried about the performance of the hulls at untested speeds. One was an Albin 28 - the guy wanted a 440 Yanmar. That hull just shouldn't run over 30 kts. The other was a Cruisers 3075. It was available with twin 300 hp small block inboards and the guy wanted twin 375's. They said no as they didn't know how it would respond.

I've also had builders refuse to under-power boats - Cruisers refused to build a gas-powered 44 for a guy who even offered to sign waivers, etc as they didn't want to damage their reputation with a poor performing boat.

But that's just my $.02

[rustnrot]

zelatore, I brokered 3 PCM 6.0L engines (same as Crusader, same company now), 2 went in a twin configuration and one is going in a replica Chris Craft Cobra.

The PCM engine is gorgeous, black with red shroud on top, and red covered spark plug wires, styled very nice.

So far, I have been VERY satisfied with them....what is your opinion?

[Sweet little 16]

money

hull design smaller motors cheaper and just as fast with new step hulls

and i think there are more higher hp non stock sterling and zul type motors people are going to my point if more people want big hp a 496ho or 502 mpi just ain't the ticket so the factory makes the 496ho boat but sells a hull unrigged for them to over power it and liability of the factory issue solved altho the factory still wants to make money so you do see a few zr's with 900 hp and more available at the dealer

[zelatore]

Rustnrot -

We've been running the 6.0 Crusaders in 35/36' Carvers for a couple years and have had good results with them with one exception. Earlier this year we had a new boat delivered from Carver with 6.0's and one motor was DOA. It didn't come through my location, so I can't say for sure what the issue was only that it never performed right. Crusader drop-shipped us a whole new motor.

Generally, we've had better luck with Crusader than Volvo. Heck, just today I ran down to meet a buddy with an 8.1 Volvo/duoprop combo in a 28 Cruisers (underpowered, btw). It had died on him in the middle of the bay, so I told him to have it towed to my dock and I'd hop on the bike and run down there. Turned out to be a pretty easy fix, just a bad relay. Too bad his girlfriend had already called a cab by the time I got there.:bawling:

Since we don't offer big blocks in some of the boats like the 36 Mariner, the 6.0 is the top package. It still doesn't have the docking manners I'd like, but all in all, it's a pretty good package for that size boat.

[Donziweasel]

I don't think it is money. Bigger power and drives can be added as an option, and are with many boats in the 24-27 ft range. The option of a 350 mag w/alpha vs a 496 HO w/ bravo 3 can be over 13,000.00. Think it is more liability. Asked a certain Donzi dealer last year if I could order an 18C with a 496 to compensate for my hp at altitude loss, didn't even say the HO version. That would have put me at about 300 hp after you take away for altitude, what a stock 18C comes with. He checked with the factory and they said "no way". I called the factory and offered way more money for the engine, still, "no way".

A good example is the Donzi website. It says max hp for an 18C is 350, but the most they offer is 320. Guess if you want it, you have to do it yourself.

[Sweet little 16]

it is always money
and profitability
to keep the margins the same for the company
on a 350 alpha 18 as a bb bravo 18 the price tag would be something most would not pay for an 18
liability may be a concern
but not has much a concern as can we sell it!!!

[VetteLT193]

I don't think too many manufacturers care about liability as much as making a profit.

If liability were a concern, the 42 Fountain Poker Run wouldn't exist... With stock 525's it runs 95+ MPH, optional 1075 SCI / #6 drives you are at 120+ MPH.

The Donzi 38ZR competition is in the same class, with similar speeds.

What really matters is money... If you want to go 100+, you'll either pay for it or you wont go 100+.

The other huge issue is HP/Cubic Inch. Who needs a big, heavy, and expensive big block when you can just drop a 383 in, get more power than the big blocks of yesterday, have less weight to lug around, and save a bunch of money? Most new boat buyers aren't tuners, they care about what they are buying and how much it costs over possible future upgrades.