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tmdog
07-31-2007, 05:58 PM
AFR 195 heads. Assembled eng.with ther supplied guide plates and noticed the rockers being cockeyed. Plates do have some lateral movement and adjusted to a happy medium. Have 383 short block on order and the geometry of the valve train bothered me. After tear down did some simple measuring and found this. Does these guide plates look right? AFR says these plates are for my application. I debated that and AFR says I should purchase Isky's adj. guide plates. What do you guys think after reveiwing pics? Jim

BUIZILLA
07-31-2007, 06:13 PM
unusable.. :boggled:

BigGrizzly
07-31-2007, 07:11 PM
They will worl but iski may be better.

tmdog
08-01-2007, 07:51 AM
Thanks. Going with Isky adj. plates.
Score: AFR 1 - Tmdog 0

BUIZILLA
08-01-2007, 08:10 AM
are those heads coated inside the water jackets?

RickSE
08-01-2007, 09:52 AM
You may be OK. The center distance of the valves is obviously further apart than the c.d. of the lifters. The pushrods will be canted outward as they rise so the guide plate c.d. has to be somewhere in between the c.d. of the lifters and valves. I'd assemble it and see what it looks like then. If it seems to bind or the tip of the rocker moves off the valve stem then it's bad.

Rootsy
08-01-2007, 10:18 AM
my 200 CC Dart's were close... had to shift the guide plate to one side when tightening the rocker studs... This is quite common when using the Comp guide plates supplied with the cylinder heads.

I've seen this a bit on other heads such as the AFR's, ProToplines, etc.

Issue is... as the runners get larger you just plain run out of real estate and things move to extreme positions...

Carl C
08-01-2007, 10:23 AM
tmdog, you probably know this but guide plates can only be used with hardened pushrods. I learned that the hard way on a car engine.:(

zelatore
08-01-2007, 10:47 AM
tmdog, you probably know this but guide plates can only be used with hardened pushrods. I learned that the hard way on a car engine.:(

HA! I remember learning that same lesson back when I was in high school... I put a set of Harland Sharp roller rockers on a 302 I was drag racing; first time I needed guide plates, and I tried to re-use the stock pushrods. Being a broke kid, I didn't have cash to tear the motor down to clean up the mess. I changed the oil a couple times and continued to run it for years...

tmdog
08-02-2007, 07:13 AM
are those heads coated inside the water jackets?

You have a good eye, my friend. The pink color you spotted is Arp assembly lube. Used on washers and under bolts to prevent galling of alum. head. I think that is what you are referring to. Answer, no coating in water jackets.
That lube is like old STP with red dye.

BUIZILLA
08-02-2007, 07:49 AM
I saw the lube stain's, I was curious about the water passages though, I *think* I saw somewhwre that AFR made a marine spec alum head with coated water passages...

tmdog
08-02-2007, 08:49 AM
I saw the lube stain's, I was curious about the water passages though, I *think* I saw somewhwre that AFR made a marine spec alum head with coated water passages...

You may be right but not aware of. All waterports look like shiny alum.

mrfixxall
08-02-2007, 09:02 AM
You may be right but not aware of. All waterports look like shiny alum.

thank god for closed cooling Tm:wink:

tmdog
08-02-2007, 09:13 AM
The results are in and AFR and I have agreed that the stock guide plates with the 195's do not properly fit. Here was the conversation the AFR rep had with their shop. After viewing my photos,
the shop mocked up the valve train as I did and got the same results. Their remedy was to either elongate the stud holes in the plate to allow more lateral movement or purchase the Isky adj. plates. I just could not fathom me trying to widen 16 stud holes with a dremel on tempered steel. Hey it was their mistake not mine. I opted for the other choice and buy the Isky's at their cost and free shipping. I would of been happier if AFR would of covered their error or sent me the original guides wallowed out. Hopefully my experience will help others considering buying AFR's.

BigGrizzly
08-02-2007, 09:44 AM
T€here are some aluminum head and intake manifolds that have water jackets either coated and or bronze inserts cast in them. I have seen the 502 heads and manifolds that way. I think they were Edelbrock, but can't remember, Garry does so much I am befuddled. The other part he get so much stuff to try I can't keep up.

BUIZILLA
08-02-2007, 10:32 AM
soooo, ARP ships the wrong parts, offers a MickeyFix, you smartly decline, and now you have to PAY for the correct parts that they didn't send the first time ?? did I miss something here ??

please remember that the Isky plates REQUIRE slightly longer studs since they are double stacked thick the stock studs will PROBABLY yank the threads out with those Isky plates, then your really in a heap of ****...

tmdog
08-03-2007, 06:35 AM
please remember that the Isky plates REQUIRE slightly longer studs since they are double stacked thick the stock studs will PROBABLY yank the threads out with those Isky plates, then your really in a heap of ****...


Here's the Isky plates. Double stacked??

BUIZILLA
08-03-2007, 07:18 AM
those are the good ones, they used to have a set that was different than that...

DonCig
08-03-2007, 07:44 AM
I saw the lube stain's, I was curious about the water passages though, I *think* I saw somewhwre that AFR made a marine spec alum head with coated water passages...
Jim, yes, AFR offers hardcoat anodizing of their heads, including the water passages, for marine use. I think that they charged me $160.00 for the additional coating on my AFR 210 SBC heads.

Don

TXDONZI
08-03-2007, 08:01 AM
Jim, yes, AFR offers hardcoat anodizing of their heads, including the water passages, for marine use. I think that they charged me $160.00 for the additional coating on my AFR 210 SBC heads.
Don

Don,
Did you have the same alignment issues with your AFR heads? I am gathering info on building either a 383 or possibly 427 SBC and that is the head I have pretty much decided to use. Since I will most likely go with a carbed whipple from reading and article I was thinking of have them built with 2.05 intakes and 1.80 ext. valves.

How do you feel about your 427? I worry with so much rotating mass in a boat at prolonged higher RPM's it will tear its self up in short order.

Tt

mrfixxall
08-03-2007, 10:16 AM
Don,
Did you have the same alignment issues with your AFR heads? I am gathering info on building either a 383 or possibly 427 SBC and that is the head I have pretty much decided to use. Since I will most likely go with a carbed whipple from reading and article I was thinking of have them built with 2.05 intakes and 1.80 ext. valves.
How do you feel about your 427? I worry with so much rotating mass in a boat at prolonged higher RPM's it will tear its self up in short order.
Tt

TX if your worried about the xtra mass then dont cheep out on the rotating assembly...Buy the light weight stuff (brandt crank and oliver rods or callis prolite and oliver rods) its twice the price but you only have to do it once:wink:

TXDONZI
08-03-2007, 11:02 AM
TX if your worried about the xtra mass then dont cheep out on the rotating assembly...Buy the light weight stuff (brandt crank and oliver rods or callis prolite and oliver rods) its twice the price but you only have to do it once:wink:

Does Brandt have a website? I can't find one for them....

rmbuilder
08-03-2007, 01:12 PM
Does Brandt have a website? I can't find one for them....

TXDONZI,

The name is not spelled correctly,it is Bryant Racing, Here is a partial listing of high end crankshaft manufacturers.

Bryant Racing 714-535-2695
Winberg crankshafts 303-783-2234
Moldex 313-561-7676
Velascos Billet crankshafts 562-862-3110
Crower 619-661-6477

Any of these will accommodate the most extreme applications.

Bob

MOP
08-03-2007, 02:30 PM
Is the Lunati Pro Mod assy still available through Holley? I am running the full kit a bit pricey but removes a lot of sweat. The problem of pro longed high RPM in an I/O is even with a shower the drives just don't do well, rule of thumb is max 5K over that and keep your hand on your wallet. In boats build for torque in cars build for RPM.

Phil

DonCig
08-03-2007, 03:34 PM
TX if your worried about the xtra mass then dont cheep out on the rotating assembly...Buy the light weight stuff (brandt crank and oliver rods or callis prolite and oliver rods) its twice the price but you only have to do it once:wink:
I used Oliver lightweight 600 H.P rods, Callies Forged Dragon Slayer crank and lightweight Mahle Pistons. Also used a shaft rocker arm system in the top end. Used ISKY springs and very good locks and retainers.
As long as the engine does not have any weird harmonics going on; I have no reason to be worried about runnning it at high rpm for a lot of hours. I run the engine at 5,200 to 5,500 rpm. It seems to like the 5,200 rpm point. 427c.i.

MOP
08-03-2007, 09:24 PM
Don that is exactly what I am talking about 5K range, both you and I have bottom ends that will turn double that but they will never see it in a boat!!!


Phil