AE finally is in the water

[BaldEagle]

What a long story. After many setbacks, AE#2 is back in the water.
updates:
K-Planes w/ indicators
Latham hydraulic steering w/ drive shower
CMI headers w/ diverter
Livorsi shifter
Drive temp gauge in place of old drive trim indicator
Depth sonar
Fuel flow totalizer
relocated stereo
relocated VHF
Labbed 27 Mirage+
I think thats it. it sounds great. Heres a few photos including the custom adapter made so the factory steering wheel and cowling could be used.
Oh yea, one more detail. I lost 5 mph. Still don't know to drive but am I having fun. Only can hit 4800 rpm. maybe a trim thing as I'm not used to the tabs or trim indicators. I thought with the CMIs the 27 M+ lab would be right on.
I'll try again tomorrow.

[Cuda]

Looks great. What do you think made you lose the 5 mph?

[BaldEagle]

Im not sure yet. Im going to try this 27 labbed prop again and trim it up more. I may have misread the drive trim indicator as its range is the usable trim angle range not the total all the way up or down range. If I don't get WOT rpm Ill go back down a prop size. The 3200 rpm 45 mph cruise is nice though. Last year I ran a 25 Turbo with std sport tabs and exh. and was getting 74 Gps at 5100 rpm. the water was very cold last weekend (in the high 50s) and I had some extra weight on board, maybe that slowed it down too. I was thinking I should have picked up a couple mph.
The new Latham steering is great, and so are the K-Planes (they stroke in about 9 seconds instead of the dual ram stroke of 18 sec.). The CMIs look and sound great but i am having trouble getting the riser/tail pipe connection to stop leaking. Also the new shifter seems to have taken the play out of the throttle cable. I had a couple of things to work out with it and Todd and Fred at Livorsi were great to work with.
Im going to make a breakfast run with Donzi Blue in a few hours so I'll learn something more

[Carl C]

I think your tach may be reading high and the 27p is too much prop. Call MadPoodle! I am waiting for my CMIs to come and will go with a labbed prop also. Even on my best runs over 75 mph I'm under 5,000 rpm with 25p M+. Trim according to feel; If you go too high the front end will dance around and you'll feel a little vibration from the u-joints. Post pics of the CMIs. Did you install them? How long did it take? Will you be at Charlevoix/Lake Michigan August 12?

[roadtrip se]

Glad the concept worked for you. It is rock solid on my boat after five years of hard use.

I would think the Mirage 27 would be too much pitch and not enough diameter. Try a 25 or 26 Precision TXP. MP can hook you up.

Hope to see it at Torch. Gorgeous boat.

[BaldEagle]

Yes, I plan on getting to Torch Lake. I will post some pics of the CMIs tomorrow. MP I'll call you Monday. I went back to the Turbo 25 and made a few runs today. Hit low 70s at 4900 Rom. Im wondering if the fuel totalzer could be restricting fuel flow. I need to get more seat time with all the new equipment. I have isolated most of the equipment bugs and should have them corrected by next week.
I was going to put the CMIs on myself but ran out time. It does take a while and you may need to field fit up a few things. I am getting water in the engine compartment and believe it is some of the cooling water manifolding so make sure all the hoses are very tight. I also think the shop left out the gaskets between the riser and tail pipe. They sound great I just have to find the extra Hp.

[BaldEagle]

have a video clip of today with some CMI audio. As soon as I figure out how to upload it I will.

[BaldEagle]

CMI Photos. Hit 75 gps under 5000 rpm yesterday with the 25 turbo prop. Didn't know exactly when as I watch the tach more than the speedo. Must have been out on L. MI. racing one of the turbocharged jest skis. They're quick, but had to look back to see it. Had close to a full gas tank and another person on board. Donzi Blue and I took a good look at the trim and tab settings on land and found the K-Planes for 4.5 and up are negative (up) angle to the hull and the trim shows "0" when it is at the top of the running trim angle instead of all the way up. Knowing that helped.
Here are a couple photos.

[LKSD]

Jeff, The boat looks great.. I guess I am not the only one running late into the season in getting thier boat done.. One of these days I will take off a few days to work on & use my boat..

Btw: It does sound like the tabs were holding you back a bit.. Keep us posted.. & Nice job on the boat again.. :)

Jamie / Lakeside


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[Carl C]

75 mph, under 5 grand and running heavy. Not bad, that's about what I'm hoping for when I get my CMIs on. You should hit 77 on a good day. Congrats.

[BaldEagle]

Thank you all for your help and kind words. I'll get the hang of eventually.

[Trueser]

Jeff,
comming up Thursday or Friday Morning hopefully see you this weekend.

Mike

[Carl C]

Hey, Jeff, I'll start my CMI installation monday. I know you had yours done but do you know of anything I should be aware of? In the pics it looks like you do not have Q&Q. The Corsa diverter kit looks like the worse part to install. Does the EFI use an oxygen sensor? I don't see where one goes. I plan to leave off my cheesy motor cover and dress up the top a bit. Input from anyone who has put on 496 CMIs would be appreciated. Oh yeah, how do they affect the sound? I will start a thread to document the installation process. Thanks.

[undertaker]

Carl your motor does not have Oxygen sensors you have temp. sensors, not sure were they go in the CMI'S....sorry....good luck on the install:):)



Undertaker:)

[Carl C]

Carl your motor does not have Oxygen sensors you have temp. sensors, not sure were they go in the CMI'S....sorry....good luck on the install:):)
Undertaker:) There is a spot on each header where it looks like a sensor goes into the water jacket near the collector. Would that be it or is there a sensor that goes directly into the exhaust stream somewhere?:confused: I thought all EFIs used an oxygen sensor as the main CPU input. How does this system make the constant fuel ratio changes to keep it right? It doesn't seem that the exhaust cooling water temp would change fast enough.

[Donziweasel]

Carl, going out on a limb here, but perhaps they are using something like snowmobile technology. Arctic Cat EFI uses an EGT to make adjustments instead of O2 sensor. Just a thought. Good luck as those are some SWEET looking exhaust!:)

[undertaker]

There is a spot on each header where it looks like a sensor goes into the water jacket near the collector. Would that be it or is there a sensor that goes directly into the exhaust stream somewhere?:confused: I thought all EFIs used an oxygen sensor as the main CPU input. How does this system make the constant fuel ratio changes to keep it right? It doesn't seem that the exhaust cooling water temp would change fast enough.


Carl, I am not even close to being a motor guru so I can not answer your fuel ratio questions, but the temp sensors are on top rear part of the manifold with my new Dana's the port side temp sensor was a tight fit with the stainless riser not much room between riser and top of temp. sensor. sorry if I confused you even more like I said not a motor head...:boggled::boggled:


Undertaker:pimp:

[Ranman]

I thought all EFIs used an oxygen sensor as the main CPU input. How does this system make the constant fuel ratio changes to keep it right? .

It's an open loop system. The ECU is preprogrammed with the fuel curve, spark curve, etc. The system cannot adapt to what's going on like a car's Mass Air system can, it just reads the mapping and goes. This is how they get around needing the oxygen sensors. That's also why you need to re-flash the ECU after engine mods since the system can't do it itself.

[Carl C]

It's an open loop system. The ECU is preprogrammed with the fuel curve, spark curve, etc. The system cannot adapt to what's going on like a car's Mass Air system can, it just reads the mapping and goes. This is how they get around needing the oxygen sensors. That's also why you need to re-flash the ECU after engine mods since the system can't do it itself. Egads!! I did not know that. So it has no way of compensating for altitude? Will I need to reprogram for the new CMIs?:eek!: I'm hoping to get a head start on the install today. Will start a new thread so that Jeff can have this one back.:wink:

[VetteLT193]

Egads!! I did not know that. So it has no way of compensating for altitude? Will I need to reprogram for the new CMIs?:eek!: I'm hoping to get a head start on the install today. Will start a new thread so that Jeff can have this one back.:wink:

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, because I don't have experience with this exact setup but:

Speed density systems have a MAP sensor. This tells the computer manifold pressure... as altitude goes up, pressure goes down and the computer can compensate.

What you have to reprogram for is major changes to the engine, because the compensation done based on manifold pressure is a 'fixed' compensation. In real simple form, the computer is going to put X amount of fuel in at a given RPM. X is adjusted +- based on the MAP sensor's readings.

With the CMI's you'll probably need a re-map. In general, the remap will simply add fuel accross the board... so the X from above is now a bigger number, then that bigger number gets adjusted +- based on the MAP.

I hope this rambling helps:bonk:

[Ranman]

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, because I don't have experience with this exact setup but:
Speed density systems have a MAP sensor. This tells the computer manifold pressure... as altitude goes up, pressure goes down and the computer can compensate.
What you have to reprogram for is major changes to the engine, because the compensation done based on manifold pressure is a 'fixed' compensation. In real simple form, the computer is going to put X amount of fuel in at a given RPM. X is adjusted +- based on the MAP sensor's readings.
With the CMI's you'll probably need a re-map. In general, the remap will simply add fuel accross the board... so the X from above is now a bigger number, then that bigger number gets adjusted +- based on the MAP.
I hope this rambling helps:bonk:

I think that explanation is pretty close.

[Carl C]

OK, I understand now. The motor still has a lot of the sensors but no O2 sensor, instead it uses a preprogrammed curve. I just talked to a tech guy at CMI and he said that the 496 HO tends to run rich and the headers will lean it out a bit but no remapping or reprogramming is needed. I know it does run rich from the soot on the transom and maybe the leaning out is where some of the power increase comes from. I appreciate the info. Now I understand my EFI better and I'll go ahead with the header install.:)

[undertaker]

Carl, FYI Dana recommended I install a adjustable fuel pressure regulator with my new exhaust because they found the 496 at higher RPM was leaning out maybe a little to much so I up my fuel pressure from factory 43 psi (I think) to 46psi I have had no issues so far and my transom is like it was before the exhaust install (a little bit of soot)..... just thought I would bring this to your attention....:):)


Undertaker:cool:

[Carl C]

Carl, FYI Dana recommended I install a adjustable fuel pressure regulator with my new exhaust because they found the 496 at higher RPM was leaning out maybe a little to much so I up my fuel pressure from factory 43 psi (I think) to 46psi I have had no issues so far and my transom is like it was before the exhaust install (a little bit of soot)..... just thought I would bring this to your attention....:):)
Undertaker:cool: I'm going to go for what they told me and if any problems show up I'll deal with it. I don't think BaldEagle did any fuel system mods and he's running pretty good. The engine should have a knock sensor and I'll watch the temp early on.:crossfing:

[BigGrizzly]

Relax This is a dumb ECU it doesn't know anything except engine knock and temperature, etc. Now the adjustable pressure is it, as fare as tuning without remapping. At this point wait for a issue before you fix anything. I would doubt if it would need remapping with only an exhaust change.