Twin ram hydraulic steering on an 18. Full or half ?

[Lenny]

Debating whether I should plumb it with the power steering pump in the system, (which I have to buy) or just settle with a new helm (hydraulic) and twin rams and no additional pump and hang a resevoir.

What to do?

Keep in mind ANYTHING is better than what I have. (stock Volvo 280 cable and a BEAR to drive)

[mrfixxall]

My olr daytona had manuel hyd steering,, just a little tuff to steer but worked fine with out the hyd assist. i vote go manuel, to extra belts to mess with and it wont rob any horse power.

[MOP]

Lenny you can always add it later if you feel you need it, if so maybe that slick electric unit Griz touts so much. No massing with belts and engine brackets.

Phil

[maddad]

The teleflex PA1200 makes steering a one finger chore. I just drove a cc with 2 giant outboards this weekend that had one in it. I probably won't get one only because of the cost. Right around 1500 for the unit. It could also be added later with very little effort.
As for the standard type power steering, I just don't want all the extra hoses, belts and whatnot.
Lenny, when you get around to it, maybe you can share some info regarding the external rams on an old Volvo.:crossfing::yes:

[zimm17]

I went full hyd and I'm glad I did. It takes out the cable which I think is the worst part of the stock system. You still keep your power steering pump, you just add a reservoir, hyd helm, and lots of hoses (4).

[BigGrizzly]

Go twin ram. I have a teleflex Pa unit on my Corsican and love it you can put it on later easly and it just hooks to the battery.

[justleft]

I went with XS dual rams but running assist on the 22c.

That way I still have the cable to limp home if the pump fails.

You can't tell the difference compared to full hydro.

[roadtrip se]

I'm running a dual ram half system on the 18.. The Critter will be full though.. After the Critter is done the 18 gets a full system.. Once you drive a properly setup full system you will never own a half system again...

This is almost exactly what MP said when he got back to the docks from running the SE. I just grinned and said, "yep".

I also heard FarmerTex complaining at AOTH this year about his new half system on the red boat handling "like a tractor". If anyone should know, he would!

[zimm17]

I went with XS dual rams but running assist on the 22c.
That way I still have the cable to limp home if the pump fails.
You can't tell the difference compared to full hydro.

Full hyd still steers without the pump. It's just like a car with the engine off- hard to turn, but do-able. You will have a full failure if you lose fluid or blow a line.

[TXDONZI]

I'm running a dual ram half system on the 18.. The Critter will be full though.. After the Critter is done the 18 gets a full system.. Once you drive a properly setup full system you will never own a half system again...

What is the difference in a full system and a half system on the AQ Volvo drives?

[Lenny]

What is the difference in a full system and a half system on the AQ Volvo drives?

Basically, everything is different. The old AQ's have NOTHING remotely hydraulic, whereas Merc had the assist.

My 280 is getting everything hydraulic on the outside of the transom. And a Hydraulic helm, twin rams etc. I was debating whether or not to add the assist from the power steering pump...


Poodle has the twin ram LATHAM bracket required for the top of the housing on the Volvo drives. And they are a nice piece too. Thanks to Geoo for the initial design and work years ago.

:)

Poodle, did you get any money? I've E mailed you a couple of times but no reply :( Were you away? Just trying to figure out where I stand, Lenny :)

[BigGrizzly]

Just to clear it up a half system isn't even close to a full system and you can tell the difference. I never got the half system out of the drive way. I was in a hurry and was going to install only the half system. when I tried it In the drive way I changed my mind in a hurry. I staied home that weekend a d did it right. Lenny can't wait till its done. Looking forward to seeing you at Sota Too.

[TXDONZI]

Sorry Lenny, yes I have been traveling.. Internet was sketchy, and required me to actually think about how to connect, so I didnt..
I have two boxes of mail from work on the living room floor totalling approx 6 cubic feet.. Mojito's are in order I believe as I plan to start drinking heavily VERY shortly, and go through it all..
If I am not heard from tomorrow, someone please call fire rescue (or AA) for me.. :) :) :)

I sent you a PM about the upper dual ram bracket......

[TXDONZI]

Bump.....

[blueliner]

hey all you mechanical gurus... or guys who have had a steering system installed... what is a ball park estimate to install a dual ram full hydraulic steering system, with full helm in the front, for a 2005 22 classic with a 496 ho and bravo x drive??? how many hours of labor would you say??? thanks for the info

[blueliner]

bump

[Lenny]

I would think about $5K BEFORE the labour/installation. (LATHAM)

[yeller]

Lenny,
Blueliner has the system. He's looking for an estimate on installation costs only.

[VetteLT193]

What is the purpose, other than looks, of the twin ram setup?

A single ram can handle so much power it seems like the best deal is a full single set up over a half dual ram set up. (assuming we're talking Donzi classics of course)

[BigGrizzly]

For one it is stronger. two it supports the Gimbel housing. Three makes the steering even left and right.

[VetteLT193]

For one it is stronger. two it supports the Gimbel housing. Three makes the steering even left and right.

I know it's stronger, but a single ram is already more than strong enough for 99.9% of the classics out there. (there might be a certain handful running well over 80 MPH that might want the additional safety of twin ram, but we're talking about a volvo 280 here) From a strength only perspective, twin ram is like buying a 50,000 pound boat lift for a boat that only weighs 4-5,000 pounds.

I've heard the gimbal thing before, but can't figure out how twin ram helps the gimbal and have never heard it from any of the marine steering manufacturers. Single or twin ram should have the exact same effect on the drive and gimbal, assuming the single ram is strong enough to handle the load.

The steering even thing I have never heard before, can you elaborate? I've been behind the wheel of both single and twin ram setups and never noticed any uneven steering in either.

[maddad]

The cylinders are unbalanced. One side is missing the volume the shaft displaces. Less volume on one side = fewer turns of the wheel to fill. Using two rams lets you push to both sides, with the same volume, vs. pushing or pulling with unequal volumes.
As an example, I use a 9" unbalanced cylinder in my boat. 3 turns to fill one side, 4.25 to fill the other. Because I don't have power steering, I use the higher volume and it's mechanical advantage to combat the prop's torque.

[MOP]

Two rams equalizes the strain on the gimbles vertical pivot which is a lot higher then many would imagine, true one ram will steer almost exactly the same but will only take half the load off the gimble.

Phil

[BigGrizzly]

Maddad and MOP got it right as for not being told by the manufacturers Call IMCO and talk to Fred or call Mayfair and talk to Bret Mays the designer of them and most of the Marine Machine systems they will tell you this in detail. The Volvo is most affected to this because the way the helmet attached and the upper and lower bearing in the transom housing attach. Will single ram work-YES, is it better than dual-NO. As to what I would do I would go with Twin rams. Now Gene who owns Chi-Chi an 18 with a single ran outside steering he made says it is very good, and I have seen this boat and seen it run- it seems to work pretty well. IMO Now if cheap is what you are looking for Uniflex used to make an outside cable for Volvos, never seen one in operation but is supose to be better than normal cable.