vonkamp's Barrel Back 18.......

[gcarter]

I needed some funds for the 22 Testarossa so I took on rebuilding Barry's (Baron Kamp) late 60's 18 Barrel Back (#18219). It's all the usual stuff, replace the original small tank, move and replace the rear tank bulkhead and install a new RDS 41 gallon tank, clean up the inside of the hull, check for rot, install a new battery box in the rear STBD corner just in front of the transom, paint the inside of the hull w/white Bilgekote, refinish gimbal (Volvo 270), install a Stainless Marine through transom water pickup, install a Groco sea strainer, ditto closed cooling, etc. etc. etc.
The boat, for its age, is amazingly solid....no recoring decks or replacing stringers on this boat.:)

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=28144&d=1176053916

[gcarter]

One thing I've noticed w/Donzi's is that there is HUGE differences in glass layup quality.......this boat while solid, looked inside like some five year olds had done the glass. It was rough as a cob, in fact, any self respecting cob would take offense at the comparison.
The outboard gussets ran almost to the chine, and the excess glass was simply wrapped around the gusset ends.
I decided that w/all the investment Barry was making in the project, it should look the part. I ground down all the high spots in the engine compartment area and started filling the low spots with filler. Then I cut the ends of the gusstes at 45*.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=28145&d=1176054033

[gcarter]

After cutting back the gussets, I refinished the ends. I cut a template from a manila folder to cut four pieces of mat bonded glass. After lightly grinding the new glass, I filled it also. It's now virtually invisible.

[hardcrab]

Yeah, talk about glass lay up by 5 year olds; I was suprised and a little disappointed by what passed for construction on my '66 18' 2+3.
The leading ends of the stringers and gussets looked like someone hurled a fistfull of snot into the general area and called it good enough. Hey, it lasted 40 years ! What the hell do I know ?! :crossfing:

[Sagbay32]

It is very interesting to see how the older hulls were manufactured. I am sure there were many different hands working in production throughout the years.

I am looking forward to watching the progress. Keep up the good work.

Mike

[gcarter]

Yeah, talk about glass lay up by 5 year olds; I was suprised and a little disappointed by what passed for construction on my '66 18' 2+3.
The leading ends of the stringers and gussets looked like someone hurled a fistfull of snot into the general area and called it good enough. Hey, it lasted 40 years ! What the hell do I know ?! :crossfing:
Yep, the front of the stringers were the same way, but since they are out of sight, I didn't touch them.

[gcarter]

I am sure there were many different hands working in production throughout the years.
Yes, and this is my point, I know the '80's boats would change in glass quality from hull to hull.
But we're here to fix them, aren't we?????

[gcarter]

Here is a picture of the inside of the hull ready to paint. Also the battery box is installed.
The box sits on two wedges cut from a 2 X 4 epoxied into the corners of the transom and the rear side of the rear gusset. The wedges are also encapsulated in epoxy. The plate is cut from some 1/2" Starboard and screwed to the wedges. The battery box came from Mr Poodle and is screwed to the plate...literally as the starboard is threaded. Additionally, the box is through bolted to the Stbd stringer for a total of eight screws. I don't think it's going anywhere.

[gcarter]

As already mentioned, another part of the restoration is a new RDS 41 gallon fuel tank. Since the original tank was only 25 gallon ???? (I never saw it since I didn't remove it), the rear tank bulkhead has to be replaced and moved to the rear.
I made a new bulkhead from clear 1" pine and glassed it before tabbing it into place. Then I "buttered" the bulkhead into place using thickened epoxy. A few days later I found the time to tab the bulkhead into the boat.

[Sagbay32]

What made you decide on pine, or wood for that matter?

Is there a non-organic product that could be used instead? I know nothing about this stuff.....just gathering info.

Mike

[gcarter]

It could, in this application, just as easily been plywood or just about anything. But in structural applications, like stringers, solid wood of a particular thickness has an advantage over plywood in that half of the various layers are running in the wrong direction to the stress. Also, plywood has end grain on all the edges, not just two like solid wood. If the plywood isn't thouroughly sealed on all its edges, and water penetrates, it can easily get rot everywhere.
But the real reason I used clear pine is that was the material of choice for Donzi stringers for years.

[Sagbay32]

Thank you for clearing that up. I too believe in the "why fix it if it ain't broke" philosophy.

Is there some type of starboard type material that could have the same structural integrity as the pine?

Mike

[gcarter]

There're lots of different foam products, you just have to use substantially more glass for strength.
Also, when foam is used, careful core reinforcement is required in the area of motor mounting bolts and other high compression areas to eliminate the possibility of core crushing.

[gcarter]

I like to foam in tanks.....I think I've solved any problems w/this method.
But first, preporation....I sanded the new RDS tank to bare metal on all surfaces of the bottom and sides and primed it w/R-M EP789 two part epoxy primer. This particular primer has a lot of zinc chromate in it. Then I put two coats of coal tar epoxy on the primered areas. This material makes it completely water proof.
After I tabbed in the aft tank bulkhead, I used a 1 3/8" hole saw to cut a hole in the very bottom of this part for the drain pipe. The 1" PVC drain pipe was then epoxied into place through both bulkheads. The original pipe was installed using double sided rubber tape. This is a common entry point for water and therefore corrosion.
Two 4' long pieces of 2" X 2" X 1/4" aluminum angle were temporarily bolted onto the outboard sides of the stringers.

[gcarter]

I asked Phil Reed to come over and help me get the tank into place....it's a bit of a hand full to do it by yourself. Once in place, I clamped two 2 X 4's, along with some shims, accross the tops of the temporary angles to control expansion of the foam. Two additional 2 X 4's were layed accross the stringers and the tank was suspended from them.

[JimG205]

Very nice work George! Keep the photo's coming.Do you spray or roll the bilgecote on in the engine compartment?? Did the 18's cockpit liner stress crack as do the Minx's????? Looks like you have a nice shop to work in.Regards,Jim

[gcarter]

Very nice work George! Keep the photo's coming.Do you spray or roll the bilgecote on in the engine compartment?? Did the 18's cockpit liner stress crack as do the Minx's????? Looks like you have a nice shop to work in.Regards,Jim
Hi Jim;
I brushed and rolled the paint. Bilgekote on a smooth, hard surface likes to run!!!! What a mess. On rough glass it brushes just fine. Rolling does well but it tends to leave a few air bubbles in it from the foam roller. The bubbles mostly settle out though. I've neve tried to spray it as there's always too much other stuff around.
I've not really looked at the cockpit as it's still in Jax. I'll know soon. But first I need to install some hardware to the roof perlings so I can hang the deck.

[gcarter]

Immediately after taking the picture above, I started pouring foam.
Attention!!! You MUST be ready to do this before you start!:eek!::eek!:
I've foamed in one other tank with this same product and it went very well. This particular batch however was a little slow to kick.
On the Minx's tank, the foam would start kicking in about 30 seconds. This batch didn't seem to do anything for about five minutes. Talk about being hard to judge!!
You'll notice in the last pic the two small measuring cups and the single large cup, simply measure similar amounts of Part A and Part B.....pour both into the large cup and mix. I would do so and it would just sit there and do nothing. How frustrating. It took a little longer than I remembered to get it done, but eventually it was done. However it kept expanding for quite awhile.
I don't know if the batch chemistry was off a little bit, the conditions weren't right, or if I wasn't mixing thouroughly. But hey, it's not hard to mix.
The next day I cut the foam back, let it sit another day and painted the inside of the hull.

[MOP]

No sweat George it is now a very integral part of the boat, sticky is it not!!!!

[gcarter]

Thanks Phil.
And below is the hull painted;

[gcarter]

And one more...

[vonkamp]

Looking great George!! We will be down with the engine in the morning. :)

[gcarter]

Saturday morning Barry braught down his new SBF which is almost ready to install. We hooked it up to the hoist and lowered it into his 18.

[gcarter]

Barry had bought a Stainless Marine transom pick up. I made a template of the mounting flange w/ all the holes. We carefully looked for the best place to mount it so that all of the mounting screws go through the thick part of the transom. Once that was determined, we taped the template onto the transom. I marked the center of the 1" pipe and removed the template.

[gcarter]

I used a 1 3/8" hole saw to cut a clearance hole for the 1" pipe that penetrates the transom.

[gcarter]

I attached the pickup temporarily with a couple of wood screws and mocked up the inside plumbing to the Groco sea strainer which includes a 1" SST ball valve for positive incoming water shut off.

[gcarter]

I really like the red work bench... :smash::smash:
Yep, that's all it is right now.

[ChromeGorilla]

Shesh... with friends like these right George? :wink::D Ask Poodle, just how much will someone pay for a 20 year old copy of boat trader? :propeller: :D



Nice job George, I'm enjoying this thread. And like MP eluded.... can't wait to see the Testarossa project..... thanks for sharing the progress.:yes:

[jl1962]

Love that hull color! :yes:

Thanks for the pix.

JL

[gcarter]

Today, Barry came and picked up the 18 because, for the time being, it's finished.
A little later I'll be doing some work on the deck, and after Barry gets the engine finished and in, it'll all go together.
So here are the final pics of the work on the hull;
The transom pickup, outside and in.
The bilge pump mount. The original acted as a dam for water in the bilge and wouldn't drain completely. This is a piece of 5/8" thick acrylic. I hate using wood for this application. It always rots and stays saturated. This will be sanded lightly, painted, and the pump and switch will be screwed to the piece of acrylic. Bilge water will run under it.
The 18 hull on its trailer.
Now I have room to spread out with the 22 Testarossa.:)

[vonkamp]

...and George did a great job as allways. :):yes: I just about had to break out a shoehorn to get it in my garage.

[gotboats]

Just wanted to comment on how clean your bilge looks. Very nice work. I am about to embark on taking my deck off and change fuel tank and repair/replace old wiring cables ect. !969 18'2+3. Also where did you get those hull stands?? Thks Bill

[Greg Guimond]

Welcome and I thought I dragged old threads back to the top.

[gcarter]

The bilge did turn out well. I filled and faired the surface in the engine compartment area. A good bit of work, but the effect was worth it.
Here's a link to the dollies;

http://williamsengineering.net/7m.html

[gotboats]

when are you available to come to Cal and work your magic on my69?? Ha Ha Thanks for the link!....Bill