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View Full Version : Is this a Donzi? New/old hull needs to be finished.



Little GTO
06-02-2007, 01:41 AM
Hi Gang,
Just acquired a new project for my boy and I to work on for the next few months (....years..:wink: ). It's a 16.5' measured right down the middle, almost 7' beam with a 30" transom depth. Transom is about 1.25-1.5" thick double layer of plywood with glass matt/cloth covering. I can't find any markings at all indicating who may have made it. I've been told by 3 local people now that it looks like a Donzi. Can someone help me confirm/deny this?
2. What power plant and drive system should this boat have? I don't ski or wakeboard much, mainly fishing and running up on sandy beaches for camping. It's going to be a lake boat mainly but may go to the west coast for some salmon fishing once in a while. I have had many I/O boats over the years but I am thinking about having more of a speedy (read, fun, loud etc.) boat this time. Not sure what leg I/O performance can be had vs. V-drive or jet drive. I have had one jet boat which was fun but didn't manoeuver well at low speed. I have not had a V-drive but my neighbour has a Hondo which he loves and is trying to convince me to put a V-drive in this. I am a mechanic so leg maintenance isn't an issue.
Look forward to hearing your thoughts on this.
Cheers
Paul
:canada:
http://www3.telus.net/radioboy/DSCN1927.jpg
http://www3.telus.net/radioboy/DSCN1929.jpg
http://www3.telus.net/radioboy/DSCN1931.jpg
http://www3.telus.net/radioboy/DSCN1919.jpg
http://www3.telus.net/radioboy/DSCN1918.jpg

yeller
06-02-2007, 02:23 AM
Hi Paul,
I see you're from Vernon. Almost bought some property there a couple years ago. Sure wish I had.
That's a Donzi (copy) hull. There a few molds kicking around from a company(ies) that popped them from the real thing back in the 70's. A friends dad has a set and I used it to build my 16 in 1988. He also had two options for the deck. One was the original style (which I chose) and the other was very similiar to yours.
So you don't have the real deal, but you'll enjoy it none the less. It's a great boat for that lake, especially at your end where it doesn't normally get as rough as Kelowna area. I head up there a couple times a year. Have relatives in Summerland.
BTW: I put a jet on mine and it works great on that hull. Pulls skiers out almost as hard as a tournament boat. A friend used to have a summer place on the reserve in Vernon. We did A LOT of skiing there.

Barry Eller
06-02-2007, 06:54 AM
Looks like a Donzi, even if its not the real thing it will be fun. I have a 16' Tahiti that I will be putting a jet drive in sometime in the near future.

Is that a 1968 Firebird Convertible in the photo? Sweet.

tigweld
06-02-2007, 09:34 AM
It looks like an outboard hull to me. V6 outboard would be easy and fast:lightning

MOP
06-02-2007, 03:23 PM
It is not a Donzi but looks like is has great potential, best of luck with it.

Phil

Lenny
06-02-2007, 04:50 PM
It's a "splash" of a 16 DONZI. There were a few molds around that people were making copies (without inner liner/tub) of this boat a number of years ago.
You found one.
Short of the lack of originality, it will be a GREAT, proven hull for your son to go crazy in...
:)
If you want a REAL 16 I/O DONZI 16 that needs a LOT of work, I have one you can have for $1G note...with parts. LOTS of work mind you...

Formula Jr
06-02-2007, 05:44 PM
This hull troubles me a little. We know its popped off of a Donzi 16 hull. Was it a good pop?


It doesn't look like it was ever rigged.
That makes me wonder why it was never rigged. Is there any history on it about who made it?

I'm not seeing a nice thick transom here in the pics. And you are saying 1.25 to 1.5 inch.
Nor are we seeing any of the interior stringers and other structural
components of an engineered, company made boat.

Can you give us pics and some measurments of the interior and structural parts. Does it have a sole or is the hull still completely open? Was it layed up so glass follows throught the right angle connecting topsides to the bottom? In other words, how well is it tied together?

This one has to be looked over very carefully by someone that knows how glass boats are put together and if this pop was done correctly and what may or may not have been completed.

A 1.25" to 1.5" transom isn't enough to hang an outboard past a long shaft 20 HP or a modern stern drive. The V-drive will work with some backing for the rudder and hard points in the stringer system. I'm guessing from the pics that V-drive was how it was supposed to have been rigged, with a dog house over the engine.

In this case, you are also going to want to completely grind out, then rebuild to flat the molded chine tabs and then grind some more get to a slight rocker hull. They moved the passengers closer to the front and your static CG is all changed.

p729lws
06-02-2007, 11:03 PM
And is the Firebird a '67 or '68?

RickSE
06-03-2007, 12:48 AM
And is the Firebird a '67 or '68?

67's have wing windows in the doors, so it must be a 68.

Barry Eller
06-03-2007, 05:48 AM
67's have wing windows in the doors, so it must be a 68.

Correct. Also 1968 was the first year for side marker lights. But you can't see them in the photo.
Nice John Deere too...

p729lws
06-03-2007, 10:16 AM
Would love to have a '67-'68 convertable Firebird but they're getting pricey.

Little GTO
06-03-2007, 10:44 AM
Hi Gang,
WOW! cool group of knowlegable guys here. Thanks!! I have been out of town all day...with my boy.

Let's see, where to start...well from top to bottom..

1. Yeller, where are you? Kelowna? Yes, north OK lake is pretty calm, especaily the west side leg. I have been there many times in the last few months and only a minor chop. Of course, I hail from Vancouver where I ran across Georgia Stright in my 28`when even the ferries were shut down, so what I consider `chop`may shut down 75% of the OK boaters. :)

2. Barry, ya baby. You nailed it. It`s a `68 rag with a 4 speed that I put in 20 years ago. Had a column power slide in it. put in PS and posi and disk brakes and bigger suspension. It`s nice but needs work again.....:boggled:

3. Lenny, yes, thanks for the info on the hull. Thinking of a 4.3L with either jet or leg. Yes, I would like to buy yours. Let`s chat offline here, my email is in my profile. Going to be heading to Van in a few weeks and could hit the Tswassen ferry on my way back. Let me know some more details on your craft.

4. Formula JR, no history at all on this, which is why I am posting here. It has never been finished, it was left on my neighbours property when the previous owner moved. Only 2 stringers running the length, that you can see in on of the photos. I will get some more pics of the interior and post. Hull is still completey open, no floor, nothing. You can see throught the hull in bright sunshine (WELL where there are thin spots in the glass. Transom is about 1.25`thick double layer of plywood, glass roving on the inside, same as the rest of the interior roving. Top deck is not glass matt or roving to the bottom. It looks like it was either glue (Sika) or glassed to the hull ( Resin only)

That`s about it for tonight..I`m beat.

Thanks guys. look frward to some more replies Sunday.

Cheers

Paul

Formula Jr
06-03-2007, 04:42 PM
Ah, but what is the car behind the Firebird?

Little GTO
06-03-2007, 06:08 PM
Ah, but what is the car behind the Firebird?
ah, good man for spotting it. You should be able to tell from the photo what it is.
I hate to do it but here is a picture of them together. I know I have one taken in the summer time but I can`t find it. Rember, they are just cars. :wink:
Cheers
Paul
http://www3.telus.net/radioboy/DSCN8662.jpg

Little GTO
06-03-2007, 06:21 PM
Hi Gang,
Lenny, yes, thanks for the info on the hull. Thinking of a 4.3L with either jet or leg. Yes, I would like to buy yours. Let`s chat offline, my email is in my profile. Going to be heading to Van in a few weeks and could hit the Tswassen ferry on my way back. Let me know some more details on your craft.
cheers
Paul

Formula Jr
06-03-2007, 09:27 PM
Paul, you are new here.

Just rememeber that the $%!^ storm you are about to get for leaving gems like that out in the snow is all good natured.

:wink:
:yes:
:propeller:

Little GTO
06-04-2007, 12:21 AM
Oh ya, I know, that`s why I prefaced my statement with`I hate to do this`...
I had a friend about 15 years ago, who helped with with cars, getting them painted and looking pretty, and I was one who only drove them when sunny and treated them like June bride`s and mostly just watched them sit in the garage. My friend told me hey, get out and use them every day, enjoy them and don`t just let them sit and rot away. `They`re just cars`
Well, I didn`t believe him and kept them in storage and under wraps until I went thru my seperation last year and realized there is a whole lot more to life than things automotive and marine and saving things for just the RIGHT time or a SPECIAL occasion. Every day we can enjoy our hobbies, kids or whatever, is a special day, and all that can be yanked away with no warning.... so I learned to just enjoy it today..and that`s it. Oh man, sorry, SOAP BOX MODE OFF.
I have a wonderful 5 year old boy who loves boats and cars and we are going to rebuild the Firebird and GTO together and I will strap in his car seat and they will be our daily drivers. And we will enjoy them..and like I planned to do with my ex 10 years ago, Michael and I are going to cruise Route 66 one day when he is older and get to Woodward Avenue in Detroit and take a picture of OUR GTO, going the wrong way on the one way street. Let`s see how many true Pontiac fans there are here and who has that `68 Road and Track ad.
oops....this is a boating forum. Sorry :bonk:
Thanks guys for having a wonderful place to hang out and share so much info and have great time. :boat: :convertib:
cheers
Paul

yeller
06-04-2007, 12:45 AM
1. Yeller, where are you? Kelowna? Yes, north OK lake is pretty calm, especaily the west side leg. I have been there many times in the last few months and only a minor chop. Of course, I hail from Vancouver where I ran across Georgia Stright in my 28`when even the ferries were shut down, so what I consider `chop`may shut down 75% of the OK boaters. :)
Live in the lower mainland. My mother was born/raised in Summerland and I've been going to the OK since I was born. I never went much past Kelowna (on water) till I was in my 20's. My friend, who had the place in Vernon kept bragging about how great the lake was for water skiing. I kept telling him he was full of it! That lake is only good at 6am I'd say. Finally went to his place and couldn't believe it. Warm, calm water usually everyday. It was like a totally different lake.

Back to the drivetrain. After 18yrs and several different motors, I personally wouldn't put a jet on that boat if you're only using the 4.3. I think you'll be disappointed in the performance. With a jet, you'll want a V8 with (at least) a solid 300hp. Also, because (with that deck style) your centre of gravity will be further ahead, you'll definately want a place divertor. The boat runs a little wet (or bow heavy) with the jet. I gained a couple mph just by moving my fuel tanks back 20". Keep in mind, your driving position will be further ahead than mine.

Actually...as I type this and think about...as much as I loved the jet on mine, I think I'd have to recommend against using one for your boat. With the weight being further ahead on yours, I doubt you'll like the performance.

Regardless of your choice, make sure you keep us posted of build. :yes:

Formula Jr
06-05-2007, 06:59 PM
I think the transom thickness is going to limit your options on how you want to rigg this boat, unless you plan to rebuild the transom and make it strong enough to carry an outdrive of some kind. If it was just me using the boat, then I would be comfortable going that route, but if it is destined as a boat for your son to use, then that is a different level of safety concern. We simply don't know how well made this is....we only know that it was abandoned.
If it had any sort of provenance, then there are comparitives that could be looked up. You might have a form that was never intended to be made into a fully working boat: a proof of concept, first lay-up, mock-up, or some test project... These are usually distroyed.
The 1 1/2 inch transom leads me to believe this is the case as do the two stringers with out any side ribbing, built-in hard points or bulkheads of any kind and that a floor, sole, wasn't put in before the deck was attached. Unless you posted another photo else where, I can't see any stringers in the photo set provided here.
I looks like they just wanted to test the fit of an alternate deck mold. There isn't one hole drilled in this that I can see. That is what is sending up the warning flags.

I know I'm derailing some of the investment you have in this as a project. It isn't my intent to rain on a parade. This item might not be what people think it is....it might not be a real boat.

Little GTO
06-05-2007, 10:18 PM
Hi Formula Jr,

First off, what's your name dude?

Secondly, I can't beleive my feet can find the floor somedays when I get out of bed. What a dough head. I didn't post the pics of the interior. Well, here they are, stringers, motor mount and all. :bonk::propeller:

NOW, let me know what you think. That yellow thing across the boat is just the big strap holding it to the trailer.

Appreciate the honesty and good advice in your last post though. My boy is only 5 so I will be the one driving the boat (for now) but safety is still the ultimate concern.

Cheers

Paul
http://www3.telus.net/radioboy/DSCN1921.jpg

http://www3.telus.net/radioboy/DSCN1923.jpg

http://www3.telus.net/radioboy/DSCN1925.jpg

yeller
06-06-2007, 12:10 AM
Man, rain a guys parade Formula. :wink:

The only thing I'd be concerned about would be the thickness of the overall layup. If you feel it's strong enough then stringers, bulkheads, transom is easy enough to do...even with the deck still on.

Paul, what is the story on this hull as you know it?

Little GTO
06-06-2007, 12:35 AM
Hi Yeller,
Well, I know nothing about this hull. My neighbour gave it to me..it was left on their property by the previous owner and they know nothing about it either. It was destined to become a planter but i talked them out of it. :wink: It was stored upside down, leaning against a tree. It took three of us, with some grunting and groaning to drag it onto the flatdeck. I have no idea how old it is, but looking at the weathering of the top of the plywood transom, at least 15-20 years??? but probably more?? There is lot's of roving in the structure, transom, up and over the stringers etc. It LOOKS strong but like formula said, why was there no floor installed?? Maybe the fuel tank needed to go in first and wasn't at hand??
Who know? It's kind of fun piecing this together, sort if like a treasure hunt.
When are you planning a trip to OK lake next? Is your buddy still on Westside road? I'm about 12 minutes away from the junction of Westside Rd and HWY 97.
Thanks
Paul

yeller
06-06-2007, 12:52 AM
The boat could have been a left over from when the company closed or someone had access to the molds and made the deck/hull and never got around to finishing.

I wouldn't worry about it too much. Just get started!! :wink: ......unless you're buying Lenny's. :)

I'll be in Vernon sometime in July. I'll let you know and take you out for a spin.
Also, September long weekend I hook up with a few boats and we do the Summerland to Vernon run. Takes us 3 days. Stay overnight at Kelowna and Vernon Yacht Clubs.

Glen

Lenny
06-06-2007, 02:02 AM
I have contacted him about my "16" I bought from the Harbourmaster a few years back... THAT deck, redone, or the whole thing mind you, and a son that needs to be busy, "might" just be the ticket...

$1000.00 is what I paid and then it was a $.61 cent dollar. Now it is $.94 and it is still $1000.00

I need to pay $3000 for steering in my "X" now, so this could help... :rolleyes:

What a sport :rolleyes:

:D

Little GTO
06-06-2007, 11:11 PM
Well, I've decided to pass on Lenny's boat as it is more of a project than I want to tackle, but damm, with all the research on my hull, I'm now bit by the Donzi bug and want one. So, I'm on the prowl for a 16' or 18' in whatever condition, but must be mostly complete, i.e. all the fundamental components like engine, drive, upholstery, etc. trim stuff or minor hardware stuff missing is no big deal..prefer west coast or the first couple of states or provinces into the continent. Either :canada: or USA. I am not interested in exepensive cream puffs, just something reasonable like the one that went on ebay this week for $2075. Not sure what to expect to get a 18' 2+3 for but that would be my fav right now I think. I also love the 16'. Oh man, so many boats, so little time.
I will post in the proper section as well, just thought this needed some closure here.
Still interested in Formula's thoughts on my hull as I may still build it upthis year but think a complete Donzi might be a faster, cheaper project to get us boating.
Thanks guys!!
Cheers
Paul

Formula Jr
06-07-2007, 04:37 PM
This doesn't look as bad I as thought it might be. It was clearly intended to be a V-drive boat or stringer mounted I/O, and they didn't yet know where the cross members were supposed to go: Where the transfer case, stuffing box, or the gas tank was going to be. It could still be made rather quickly into an outboard by building up the transom, and cutting the knotch in.

They were intending the sole to be a structual part and act as a low bulkhead, glassed in directly to the hull.

This is very doable as an outboard in the 90 to 110 hp OB range. It will probably go about 35 to 40 MPH with that power and be fairly safe.

Making it a V-drive gets expodentially more complicated and expensive. This is what they may have discovered and then not know what to do with it.

Little GTO
06-08-2007, 07:30 PM
As I am not a big fan of outboards, I think I will try to find a good used 4.3L V6 and Merc or Volvo leg setup for this boat. I am still going to keep looking for a real Donzi in the mean time.
Thanks guys!
Paul
:boat: