A Couple Of Questions

[Carl C]

Long story short, my boat was damaged in a towing accident last september and I have been unable to get it fixed. K&M Marine had it for 7 months and returned it in non-operable condition. Now they are in trouble for insurance fraud and I am back to square one: boatless. Progressive is working with me and I guess someday the boat will get fixed. Meanwhile I have other issues with K&M. My boat was shrinkwrapped and stored outdoors without my knowledge or consent and it was damaged while in their care. There are abrasions around the boat probably from the shrink wrap. There is a chip on the engine hatch (bolt in pic is there to help the camera focus). There are other scratches that won't show in pics. I'm thinking about taking them to small claims court and wonder what my recourses are. I would like compensation for the depreciation they caused to my boat and for loss of use. I'd also like a refund of the $ I paid for the shrink wrap. Any legal beagles here that could help advise on this? I bought the boat new and it was in new condition. (2005 22C) I'd also like opinions on weather these trim cylinders are new. They are supposed to be but they are all chipped up. Thanks

[BUIZILLA]

the cylinders are NOT new, i've got some that are 20 years old that look better than that

[yeller]

Man Carl, it just keeps getting worse. I feel for you. As Poodle says, document everything. I'd definately want a refund on the shrinkwrap and I too would investigate my options for compensation.

[Pismo]

This is why I do EVERYTHING myself. Even if I dont know how, I learn. I have yet to find a boat repair shop I would trust, even ones I worked at.

[Sweet little 16]

Far from a legal eagle , but the workmanship and fraud are one issue best handled by your ins company, the other issues of "pain and Suffering" in a civil case are very hard to quantify and the burden of prove is totally on you

the first item of storing your boat outside without consent, i believe your payment is consent or do you have any paper work to verify inside storage only. as far as neglect they handled the boat with what would be considered a standard in the industry shrink wrap so neglect would be hard to prove. the abrasions are non reapairable?? and how do you put a monetary value on depreciation, every day the boat depreciates
the chip is hard to prove
also how do you value lack of use, the boat is not used for monetary gain is it?? again the 7 months they had the boat could they be considered by most as the off season??
if you are going for pain and suffering it would be the time travel fuel you have expended in this hole fiasco get an estimate to buff out the abrasions and repair the chip build your case around what you can prove
that is where you will quantify your loses

i know the whole situation stinks but be prepared to be jerked around again as you are coming into all the marinas busy time, so find some one who can gaurantee a finish time and can water test when done

good luck

[BUIZILLA]

how could the shrink wrap scratch the hull if it clings to it after it's shrunk?

[MOP]

Carl you need "3" things independent Merc mechanic, your Progressive adjuster and the "bill" in hand do a very close inspection of work and suppsed parts used! You got it good and did not even get Kissed!

Phil

[Carl C]

Yes, they had the boat in the off season and this is when they were supposed to be working on it. Now I'm back to square one and looking at who knows how long to fix it. Can I put a value on loss of use? Yes, the boat payment. The main thing here is that when I took the boat in I asked and was specifically told by the service manager that they were open year round. Just as Donzi was ready to ship the hull kit they shrinkwrapped my boat, put it outside and closed for the winter. They never called me. I bought the boat new to keep it new and I store it indoors. It was never intended to be sw'd and stored outside. It never had a full cover on it before this. I pd the sw fee because I was expecting to pay a $1,000 deductible but that was lowered to $172 :confused: and $168 for the sw made $340 out the door and I'm back on the water :yippie: NOT!! Progressive insurance will fix the boat and K&M is in trouble. I guess right now I like "Poodles and Yeller's idea of giving it all to the ins to work with for now. I'm trying to find a shop that can get me in. I will call Pier 57 monday. Anyway it seems that I should have a civil case too. Thanks for listening.:)

[gcarter]

Anyway it seems that I should have a civil case too. Thanks for listening.:) [/SIZE][/SIZE]
Think about it Carl....Do you have a 18 months and $7-$10K????
Are you ready for the frustration?:confused:
Why not let the Insurance Co. do what they can, get your boat fixed, and enjoy the Summer????

[gold-n-rod]

I agree with George. The paint damage is an insurable item that Progressive can go against K&M for. It sounds like K&M committed fraud to the tune of at least $1400 by reusing the prop shaft and both trim rams.

I'd suggest a long discussion with your adjustor (and maybe his/her boss) about what they are going to do about both the fraudulant repairs and the storage damage.

Rather than go up against K&M yourself, let the big dogs (Progressive) do it. That's what you are paying them for.

[Carl C]

Randy, George, sounds like good advice. Thanks. Right now the main thing is to get the boat fixed asap.:boat: :yes:

[Sweet little 16]

Carl,
as I said the fraud is one thing but what you are building your civil case on is shakey at best and any good lawyer is gonna windle it down the boat payment is what loss ??you agreed to pay it 12 months a year for the term of the loan weather you use the boat or not yes to you it seems to be a loss but in the legal world things are different, and being open all year?? is that 24 hrs a day?? and having it in writting no outside storage?? negligence is proving someone is not taking steps or measures that most would in that situation or total lack of care, had it been left uncovered that's a different story. the advise to let the insurance company handle it is the way to go cause all in all most of any compensation will line the lawyers pockets

and don't let your lust for boating put blinders on you, haste makes waste
I would put pressure on you insurance company to find a shop that they have worked with or comes recomended by MERCURY MARINE or suggest a different tack to them and get as suggested here a remanf'g drive and do the work yourself or with the help of someone.


and make sure every thing is to your approval and test it before accepting delivery of your boat, you noticed a bent prop shaft before you noticed trim rams that look like the were dragged on the ground??? and the abrasion when you got home??? was the boat covered on the way home??? has the boat ever been left at the dock for any period of time??? could those abrasions have come from anything else?? those are the kind of question you would be expected to answer, the boat is new how many hours are on it??what work if any have you done to your boat??
i see it at work all the time they will set you up and then tear you apart piece by piece,leaving a bloody carcass wondering what bus just hit you


just has a suggestion too if you can work with your ins co to work with the shop that fianlly does the repair so that all the red tape and paper work and the stuff they need to do to get paid is handled so they fix it , fix it right to your satifaction then you hand them a check for full payment, this might help expedite the repair as i said before most marinas are in a get ready for the season mode so where do they make their money?? fixing one boat or getting X amount of boats summerized for X amount of dollars

again I feel the whole situation stinks, but just stay positive and think of your first ride

[Carl C]

Sweetlittle16, to answer some of your questions; I don't tow with a cover, the abrasions are only visible when the light hits them right. No I didn't notice the old parts when picking up the boat. I trusted this shop. What I'm considering is a small claims case after all is said and done and K&M has been proven quilty of insurance fraud. This would not involve an attorney on my side. It would be to recoup $ for loss of use, actual expenses (towing etc.), maybe punitive damages and a refund of the shrink wrap fee. It doesn't cost much to file a small claims case and I could get $5,000. I thought maybe someone here has been through this and could advise on what might be recoverable damages. Again, this would not happen untill my boat is fixed and returned. A friend works at a law office and I may be able to consult with an attorney at no charge. Yes, my main problem is getting the boat fixed and I fear that I will lose much of this season. Boating is huge to me, it is my passion and this is litterally making me sick. I should have kept my '85 'Stream for a back-up.:( :mad: :lightning

[Sweet little 16]

Carl,
I was giving advice from what I have seen with sort of thing happening to people I know and work with.
somethings to take into account

time and distance weaken your case the more you use the boat the more the evidence is tainted so to speak so get the boat fixed use it all summer than bring the case up in the off season ??? it is not as strong as it is now then take the time to show up in court more time away from the boat cause the legal calendar grinds away slowly

just cause you are not using a lawyer doesn't mean they won't, or the Judge won't ask the same questions to find out the true amount of damage
remember the old addage a man you represents himself has a fool for a client
if the shop is being charged with insurance fraud that is a criminal case and if they are really being held to the fire don't believe they have not already gotten legal councel on this. your best bet is a conviction in a criminal case then you can base you civil case on that and damages are easier to quantify and to recieve . let the ins co and the state do your work for you then consult a lawyer, small claims is just that , if you feel you have been truely wronged by a criminal act presue that course and punitive and compensatory damages especially if you are becoming sick a visit to the doctor's office for a check up might not hurt as it contributes to the true amount of pain and suffering showing your stress and anguish over the situation

[undertaker]

Think about it Carl....Do you have a 18 months and $7-$10K????
Are you ready for the frustration?:confused:
Why not let the Insurance Co. do what they can, get your boat fixed, and enjoy the Summer????


Well said George....:yes: :yes:

If the boat was shrinkwrapped the RIGHT way I would not be to worried about the boat sitting outside it does a nice job protecting the boat from the weather IMO. Like George said let the ins. co. handle all the BS and get your boat fixed and run the sh.t out of it:) :) :) Good luck


Undertaker:cool:

[BigGrizzly]

Carl, Talked toy sister last night(she is a lawyer and works with ins all the time). She agrees with Poodle. the civil suit won't flush,with a mediocre lawyer, let alone with a good one. The "toy,pastime" is not mental anguish unless prescribed by a doctor before hand. Since shrink wrap is used so universally up there it is a common and acceptable practice. Regardless of your view point it will be thrown our, plus you got it back before you would normally use it, so that is out too. Sorry to tel you this but just get it fixed and enjoy it and forget it happened except when someone says "Where can I get my boat worked on?" If you go to court and they put a gag order on you, then you can't say anything !! Let the INS do their thing. You,(and all of us) paid them a lot of money now its time for them to earn it, let them do it and stay out of it. If you say something to the dealer it can be used against you.

[Carl C]

MadPoodle and everyone, thanks. It helps just to have some fellow boaters to talk to. I'll be making lots of phone calls tomorrow to find a shop. I'll tow it to Pier 57 in Tennesee if I have to.