New Paint Job

[techspecial]

The gel on my 86 Minx has gotten so tired that I'm "giving up".
I wet sanded and buffed/waxed three times last year...Lasted
about a month.
Have a guy who is going to paint it for me. His procedure is:
D.A. and fill any imperfections. Self etching primer...
Wet sand...Base coat...Two coats of Sikkens clear.
Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated !!!
Thanks, Mike

[98shovel]

mike
da may make things more wavey tell him to use a dual action long board .with out knowing what grit paper he plans on preping with its hard to know how the finish will turn out.
as far as self etching primer its made for bare steel use a heavy build primer so imperfections can block out,sikkens is a good prod. sprayed many hydros with it, ive since changed to standox there clear and base is better in my opinnion, but im shotting mine in imron .you didnt say any thing about color sand and polish for that high luster if he plans on polishing two coats clear is not enough for uv protection once done.
dont forget u get what u pay for dont go cheap repainting if not satisfied will cost way more than good paint the first time

[Scott Pearson]

Who in NJ is doing the job?

[mrfixxall]

listen to shovel,,,no need for self etching if theres somthing for the paint to hang on to..make sure he uses a two part primer perferably 3+1 by sikkens or a urathane primer.reguar laquer primer is like a sponge it absorbs moisture and will blister after time..are you doing the bottom? does the doat sit in the water for any legnth of time? if so i will blister also...me personally would use awlgrip or imron..

[techspecial]

A renowned painter at the local Ford dealership who has shot some boats that I've seen will be doing the job...Everybody seems to be happy with his work.
It seems that I am mistaken about the self etching primer.
I'm going to fix the imperfections myself and leave him 320 grit
sand scratches as "tooth". Then he'll shoot it with the high build
primer and the base/clear coat. Because I'm doing a lot of the
work he's going to throw in another coat of the Sikkens.
What I do after that is what I'm up for suggestions on...
Thanks, Mike

[98shovel]

mike
what primer, is he going to prime comp. or just parts that where repaired.if u are doing the filler work get some v.e. feathering filler if u prime the comp. boat 320 is a bit fine try 220 the h/b should fill that with out any prob.
after paint is complete we color sand and polish. sikkens clears can get hard really fast so u want to start soon after its done ,norton liquid ice polishes real nice stay away from prod for boats u now have an automotive type finish and should be treated like a show car

[maddad]

I'm no expert with paint, but know what I've seen and heard.
When its time to paint my boat, I will talk to Scott Pearson about who in New Jersey is going to paint my boat.
:wink:

[98shovel]

mike
one thing u have not talked about how much of the boat are u painting and will u be disasembling the complete boat or masking off a bunch of stuff.
if your doing a complete i would suggest disasembly for the best outcome and long term durability masking leaves edges for moisture to creep in and start lifting paint.
u keep saying sikkens clear but no mention of what base,primer and wich clear they have several

[techspecial]

Shovel,
I've removed all of the brightwork so I'm basically down to a bare hull.
It's bottom painted and kept in the water so I'm not doing anything below the water line. As for product specifics...I don't know...He'll shoot it with anything I specify. I've run internet searches for some of the products mentioned in this thread and have come up empty...More specifics would be greatly appreciated !!!
Thanks, Mike

[98shovel]

mike
i shot sikkens for 7 years went to standox about 4 years ago sikkens changed thier prod line from autobase to base plus and at that time we were ginny pigs for a prod that did not perform and was 30% more in price,i still have some connections at sikkens to find out info but they are getting limited.
i personaly would ues standox or like i said before im refinishing mine in imron the cost for imron is way more but the paint is almost bullet proof,some guys dont like imron because it can be difficult to work with and must be sprayed in a heated booth with fresh air breathing if u need more info leave me a pm with your # and ill call u so we can discuss over the phone painting by computer is a hard game to play ,continue to do your research before u turn him loose and the out come of your boat will be way better u can never have to much info and the only dumb question is the one u dont ask
patrick

[RobF]

probably a little late on this- but there is no way I would use BC/CC on a older boat.

Donzi gets away with it on brand new boats, sometimes it bites them in the butt.

Use a good paint like a Imron, awlgrip, or something along those lines.
Even PPG concept would be a better choice.

also make sure he is using primer thats going to get sanded.
You will not achieve a lifetime paint job with the products you described.

[Scott Pearson]

This board has really changed....:confused: :frown:

[Dr. Dan]

This board has really changed....:confused: :frown:


An understatement! :wink:

Hope all is well Scott!

Doc :bonk:

[RobF]

This board has really changed....:confused: :frown:


elaborate?

[Cuda]

elaborate?
Yes, please do.

[The Hedgehog]

I got to say that I have been lurking on this board for quite some time and have not really been active until the last year. Folks here have been extremely helpful with a number of projects. I hear conflicting viewpoints from time to time but that is what it is all about. There is always more than one way to do things. I have also had some pm discussions with some of the gurus and they have shared ideas with me that have saved me tons of both time and money.

[98shovel]

hey bg zx
im with you on that. people can be helpfull and sometimes not but its every ones opinion ive been around this for awhile and usually dont pipe up, but sometimes whene u see info that u know is in a wrong direction u just cant keep your piehole shut but it is still ones opinion ihave not said much about what i do because it doesnt really matter but custom painting is what i do know but still my opinion and many poeple know moore than I thats how i learn more, when someone wants to start slamming please go somewhere else I dont have time for it or care about it
patrick

[BUIZILLA]

if Pearson told me to use BC/CC, i'd do it, even if it meant painting it upside down and underwater in a fish tank to do it... :yes:

[RobF]

only thing is he did not offer advice, just asked who was doing the job, then commented that the board has changed, thats fine if he is "in the business", but dont assume that others are not just because they have not been members of this board.

Some of us are also "in the biz" and can offer advice as well :cool!:





"None So Blind As Those Who Will Not See" and "None so deaf as those that will not hear"

[Dr. Dan]

:wink: Guys, really...I don't think anyone is slamming anyone....fact is there are alot of talented people here...it's an overall very good group of people. Some of us get excited because no matter what...someone always gets insulted or irritated about something...and they feel compelled to respond. That's the rub... part of the charm of the written word...alot is up for interpretation...often it's misinterpreted.:spongebob

I am sure there was no malicious intent on any of these posts...so relax...eat some pop corn and lay off the coffee.:wavey:

Pearson is one of the most talented people in a myriad of disciplines...not the least of which is anything related to a car or a boat...so don't be so quick to judge. We all garner alot of knowledge from each other... on occassion some of it is even useful! :bonk:

The fact is that the Registry is a Dynamic Environment and it has changed...some for the better...some not...it's an opinion kinda thing... alot of great people and close relationships have been formed here over the years...and I am sure many more will continue.

Post some pics of your work or projects...we all like pics.... don't mind us opinionated folks....we are mostly harmless...all except Phil and Poodle, they are certifiable!

Good Luck With Your Projects...Spring is just around the corner!

Doc of Philosophical Differences :beer:

[Cuda]

Pearson is one of the most talented people in a myriad of disciplines...
That is a fact. When I first came on doniz net, he used to post regularly, and we all benefitted from his knowledge. He doesn't strike me as a person to just guess at what he says, I pretty much take his word as the gospel. Some of his work is just incredible.:cool:

[Cuda]

only thing is he did not offer advice, just asked who was doing the job, then commented that the board has changed, thats fine if he is "in the business", but dont assume that others are not just because they have not been members of this board.
Some of us are also "in the biz" and can offer advice as well :cool!:
"None So Blind As Those Who Will Not See" and "None so deaf as those that will not hear"
If I'm not mistaken, he is in the paint business.

[The Hedgehog]

I guess that I was confused by the :( which implies to me that it has changed for the worse. That would be bad if some folks that have been around quit posting. I hear that Pearson is good but that is from reading old posts. I would imagine that many of the newbies don't know many of the players that have been around.

As for me, I have fairly thick skin and hope that everybody sticks around so I can learn something. I know that there is more than one way to do things and I don't minds hearing about it.

[RobF]

some of us make a living doing this type of thing as well, how do we all learn? from others and thier mistakes.

guess when I see someone saying things have taken a turn for the worse when all I was reading was friendly advice towards the poster's paint job, it does strike a bad chord with me. If I took that the wrong way- fine and apologize.

[techspecial]

Fellas I really didn't mean to start anything...
I have restored and painted exactly one car in my life.
It came out really nice, but it was 10 years ago so I'm basically new at this.
I realize that you "get what you pay for" but I don't have unlimited recources.
I just have too many hobbies! I'd like to know what the best high build primer is.
I'll wet sand it and then I guess we'll shoot it with awlgrip and then clear coat it a couple of times. The guy who's doing my painting won't touch imron because
the shop we'll be using isn't equipped for it. I also don't want to be out of the water until the fourth of July so we'll be moving pretty fast once the weather breaks here in the northeast. All I'm asking is what are the best products out there. Please go easy on the acronyms and abbreviations remember you're dealing with a dummy... Thank you everyone for your help!!! :)

[98shovel]

mike
go to your local auto paint store most of the people that work there can help u select prod.
ppg,has a primer used to be k 36 mite be k38 by now i havent shot ppg for 15 plus years their dbc base coat is also a good prod i think their good clear is 2000 or something like that stay away from any hispeed stuff dries to fast to get completely around
sikkens has the same colorbuild was thier good primer auto base plus was base clears cant remember
standox has hs system filler just one base and i use the hs priemium clear
i have pianted boats with all the above using base clear wouldnt do it any other way just my 2 cents
dupont has alot of good prod as well just havent used them in 20 years
went away from ppg to the to sikkins and standox becouse i like the finish better with the german paints k36 if not left to dry at least 72 hrs had a problem with shrinking the others dont seem to have that problem
if u need any moore help please fill free to ask
patrick

[Morgan's Cloud]

Mike ,
What makes your friend's shop unsuitable for Imron but OK for Awlgrip ?
In terms of formulation/mixing/application and toxicity they're pretty darn similar.
IMO I would'nt bother clearcoating Awlgrip. Been there ..... On the other hand , if you keep your boat stored indoors I guess it would'nt hurt.
Also IMO Awlgrip is a far better choice for the marine environment.

Oops, almost forgot.......
think about 'down the road' as well .....
Regular 'Awlgrip' is a non repairable finish , Awlcraft 2000 is repairable . This might affect your choice as to which one you use today.

[realbold]

Mike ,
What makes your friend's shop unsuitable for Imron but OK for Awlgrip ?
In terms of formulation/mixing/application and toxicity they're pretty darn similar.
:yes: Thats what I was wondering.......

[98shovel]

could someone tell me why everyone is against auto paint on a boat from what i know most of the top custom boat painters in the country use some form of auto paint.
i have not personaly ever painted awlgrip so i know nothing about it prob a very good prod .I do know auto paint holds up to the marine use have painted many boats with it and never any problems when properly cared fore
the paint job is only as good as the prep. most paint jobs fail because of poor prep not choice of paint

[Morgan's Cloud]

I've only ever used Awlgrip for the boats I've done, so that's all I can speak to.(just to clarify where I'm coming from) To be honest I would'nt use Imron on a boat .. at least out here.
BUT as I pointed out on a different thread a long time ago you guys have a far far greater selection of automotive paints over there than I have ever heard of so I try to keep out of that fight :yes:

[98shovel]

whats wrong with imron

[RobF]

whats wrong with imron


having painted over 50 boats, I can tell you there is nothing wrong with Imron, and having repaired boats with auto systems I stand by my advice.

again- if your dealing with a "toy" thats going to sit in the garage or in covered storage its not that critical.

The go-fast boats painted new in the factories use BC/CC for a few simple reasons- one is the transition is finer, you dont get a build up of paint between the stripes/graphics. The other is speed- you can put 10 colors on the boat in one day and clear coat it and be done with it.
With Imron or Awlgrip your limited to one color per day.
For a intricate super fancy graphics paintjob it is best to use basecoat, but I would still use Imron clear and I would be doing my graphics over a properly primed and painted surface.

[Morgan's Cloud]

whats wrong with imron
Again , from a personal perspective ..........
When I painted my car many , many years ago I used Imron. At that point in time it was a very high end automotive finish. I have no doubt that it has evolved into an even better product today.
It stood up very well indeed , in automotive use in our conditions.
Awlgrip was developed for the aerospace / marine industry and it holds up very very well in our marine environment.
Our auto environment would be the equivalent of your severe marine environment with the possible exceptions of Florida. Our marine environment is off the scale and remember our boats don't live in garages in between uses , they stay overboard ! No-one out here Imrons boats.
Come to think of it , if you refer to the technical data on the custom yachts in 'Showboats' magazine , you only ever hear of Awlgrip or Sterling and a little Interlux.
Again , I'm talking of personal experience , and yes that means simple single colour finishes ... no fades , flames , metallics etc etc. That's when those other types that are easier to work with come in.

And , true ... It's all in the prepwork :wink: