Best & Worst engines

[Donzigo]

I was chatting with a friend the other day about the best and worst engines ever made in the US. It turned from boats to vehicles, etc..........

I said the 4.0 AMC/Chrysler/Damier Benz developed in the 50s and I think still put in some of the Jeeps today, would be a candidate for "best". The engine develops very high torque and after Chrysler put fuel injection on it, became almost perfect!

He mentioned a slant six by Chrysler was one of his favorites.

I'd say the aluminium Buick Skylark engine from the 60s might be one of the "worst".

I also had the first deisel (not a true deisel, a modified gas engine with a centrifical injection system) Cadillac engines in a 1980 Cadillac. That had to be one of the worst. They rebuilt it at least 8 times and then there was a class action suit on it in about 1984. I was going through a divorce at the time and didn't do the paperwork. I always wondered if anyone got anything from it. It was a happy day when I unloaded that lemon.

The OMC fictht engines certainly begs to be a "worst" candidate. My neighbor is one his fourth powerhead and third computer assembly.

Anybody else have any best & worst candidates?

[BUIZILLA]

I gotta think about this one...............

[lee]

80 caddies had 5200 engines and were all junk

[gcarter]

I'd say the aluminium Buick Skylark engine from the 60s might be one of the "worst".
This is ironic but Buick sold this engine to Rover in the late '60's-early '70's and they turned it into a winner. Every large engined Rover car, Land Rover, and Range Rover has one. These vehicles may have problems but the engines are pretty good.

[Donzigo]

Were the 5200 engines that 4/6/8 thing?

[Craig S]

I bet that was the 4200 series. First as a V4-6-8 4.2 liter which morphed into an ok 4.5L and 4.9L just before the Northstar.

Chevy has come out with some poor 4cyl engines of late. Enough to make both Pop. Hot Rodding and Car and Driver worst lists. And lets not forget the alum block steel head Vega 4.

The 4.0 AMC was last put in the '06 Wrangler, fwiw.

Small block ford and Chevys have to make the best list.

I forgot, I had a Y block Ford (292) in the '64 Resorter I owned for 20 years and just sold...and I thought it was a terrible engine although it never let me down. Every time I looked at it (usually working on those wretched dual side drafts!), I wished there was a small light sbf in its place.

[Donziweasel]

I am not sure about all engines, but I know most people think the 496 and 502 in boats were superior to the 454, but I do not think it was one of the worse engines ever made. The 1980's 6.2L Chevy non-turbo Diesel was pretty gutless. If we are talking foreign as well as domestic, can anyone say Yugo?:bonk: If we are talking transmissions as well, the 4 spd manual that came in the 1970's and early 80's Jeep CJ's was a piece of crap in my opinion. I went through three of them in a year and a half in a CJ-7.:mad:

[BUIZILLA]

I bet that was the 4200 series. First as a V4-6-8 4.2 liter which morphed into an ok 4.5L and 4.9L just before the Northstar..the V8-6-4 had absolutely nothing to do with the Northstar series, it was it's own engine, if you disconnected the cylinder cutout interlock, it was actually a very good engine...the 5.0 caddy was really a 307 Olds 4BBL derivitive and it was also a dog powerwise, the Caddy 6.0 was a great engine, the 4.1 252 Buick engine in the Caddy was terrible, with head gasket problems galore, but the 3.8 SFI Buick engine made the all time world 5best engines ever made.

[Cuda]

I'd have to say the small block chevy has to be in the list of best engines. They have been building them for over 50 years. Now, if they could just figure out that the distributor should go on the front of the engine...................................

[Cuda]

Speaking of small block chevys, my dad told me that he bought a brand new Edsel in 1958, and a 55 or 56 Chevy was running up on him. Dad said he knew the biggest engine the Chebby could have was a 265 cubic inch, so dad figured he'd teach him a lesson with this 361 cubic inch Edsel. He said it hurt his feelings badly when the Chebby past him up.:(

My dad was always a Ford man, so naturally, that's what I gravitated towards, but I'm here to tell you those SBC's were damn quick on the street.:eek!:

[BERTRAM BOY]

I'd say the aluminium Buick Skylark engine from the 60s might be one of the "worst".



Actually a company named Repco out of Melbourne,Austrailia used these engines in the mid-'60's as a basis for their Formula 1 engine.


The term "best engine" is so open ended. What is the criteria for best? Most powerful, most durable, or cheapest to manufacture? Best means different things to different people.........

[Carl C]

Best: Small block Ford pushrod motors.
Yes, 4.0 AMC straight six.
Chevy big block pushrod motors.

Worst: Wankel rotary.
Chevy diesels based on gas motors.
All non free wheeling motors with rubber timing belts.

[Cuda]

In the worst category, I'd have to include the Chebby Vega engine. I heard it was designed as a disposible engine, to be replaced after 50k miles. My neighbor had a new one, and he had to turn off the ac to take off from stoplights.

[FOSTER]

Best - cat c16, 600 hp, 2050 torque, 6 1/2 mpg
Worst - detroit 671

[Mac]

the V8-6-4 had absolutely nothing to do with the Northstar series, it was it's own engine, if you disconnected the cylinder cutout interlock, it was actually a very good engine...the 5.0 caddy was really a 307 Olds 4BBL derivitive and it was also a dog powerwise, the Caddy 6.0 was a great engine, the 4.1 252 Buick engine in the Caddy was terrible, with head gasket problems galore, but the 3.8 SFI Buick engine made the all time world 5best engines ever made.

Gotta agree with the Buick 3.8, went for a ride last week in a GN that runs lows 10s on pump gas and 275 MT drag radials, pretty docile around town, puts out over 700hp, pretty cool standing on it at 50mph and having the tires break free.

[BUIZILLA]

who's the MA guy, I may know him?

[gcarter]

Jim, the guy I mentioned previously, John Iwansic, has one of these cars....he knows you.

[hardcrab]

Dodge / Plymouth 225 slant 6 HAS to be among the most durable and dependable engines ever built. :yes:

[Rootsy]

Best - cat c16, 600 hp, 2050 torque, 6 1/2 mpg
Worst - detroit 671


sure they leak oil but damn... there are 671's that are pushin half a century or more old and still runnin... namely the 238 in my mobile air compressor ;)

but then again... growing up i had to live, eat, sleep and often breath in the damn oil runnin out of these things as i crawled around beneath all of the old man's semis... :bonk:

JR

[Donziweasel]

The Detriot Deisel 6V71, 8V71, 6V92 and 8V92 were 2 stroke engines and known as "road oilers". New ones even had blow by. They had two blocks, the green one and silver one. The green was a piece of crap. How do I know? I am running one 8V71 and 9 6V92's. Only really good for about 250,000 miles before at least an inframe has to be done. Cost for inframe- $7,000.00. Cost for a completly pulled engine with crank ground- $14,000.00. Series 60 DDEC a much better engine

One of the best- Cat 3208. Always ran well and had much more longevity than the Detriots. Came in turbo or non-turbo.

[dclassic]

Yes the slant 6 is pretty much unstopable and with the hyper pack actually pretty quick. The other I6 they were working on that ended up in Australia was actually much stronger and more powerful (nicknamed the Hemi 6) althoug not many people know what they are in the states, I would love to have one. The AMC based 258 then 4.0 is also killer, never gave me a lick of trouble in any of my Jeeps.

I am kind of shocked no one mentioned the 426 HEMI yet. It has got to be up there. Not to mention any of the B or RB big block wedges 383, 400, 413, 426, 440. Exceptions being the 361 and 400 which are not nearly as well regarded.

The small blocks were also very tough in any variety 273, 318, 340, 360.

I would say the slant 6, amc based 258 and 4.0, and the Hemi are Mopars most highly regarded. The Cummins ISB6 is also significant, definitely one of the top 10 diesel engines.

As far as Chevy the small block and big blocks are some of the most significant motors ever. Where can't one get parts for them. Not to mention, just where would our Donzi's be without them?

[Magicallbill]

Best..The 300 In-Line 6 from Ford. I had one in my 85 F-150 that went 373000 miles without anything going wrong but wear-and-tear items.
Worst, (No personal Experience) was the 350 Diesel that Chevy had for awhile in the late 70's. I can't remember ANY of them that didn't have to be torn apart before 100,000 miles.

Boat-wise, my 377 Scorpion in my '02 18 is fabulous. I know it's early in it's life, but it is unbelieveable.
Plus, Jason's 350 MAG was turn-key perfect.. A great example of a tried-and-true motor that they have built enough of to get completly right.

[MOP]

Bill I had a 300 in a 4X4 it was a true stump puller and yes super dependable but burned gas like there was no tomorrow, I swapped for a built 390 it was faster more powerful and burned less fuel.
I have to go along with the AMC 4, got rid of the last Jeep with 171,000, 3800 Buick, GM I 6's, slant 6 and Chrysler's hemi along with most Lap stuff would be high on my list. SBC & SBF are hard to beat, another to keep you eye on is the new 5.7 Chrysler it is fantastic as is is but has even greater potential. Bad or quirky to many to list! Much of Euro stuff was poor to say the least!

Phil

[Rootsy]

The Detriot Deisel 6V71, 8V71, 6V92 and 8V92 were 2 stroke engines and known as "road oilers". New ones even had blow by. They had two blocks, the green one and silver one. The green was a piece of crap. How do I know? I am running one 8V71 and 9 6V92's. Only really good for about 250,000 miles before at least an inframe has to be done. Cost for inframe- $7,000.00. Cost for a completly pulled engine with crank ground- $14,000.00. Series 60 DDEC a much better engine
One of the best- Cat 3208. Always ran well and had much more longevity than the Detriots. Came in turbo or non-turbo.

671's were all inlines... green / silver was a varient of the 92 series... (i know very little bout the 110's and 149's)

There's a whole collection of DD stuff sitting around my parent's place... couple of 2-53's, 3-53's, 4-53's, couple of GM blocked 2-71's, couple of 3 & 4-71's, 8V71 block or two, 12V71, and a few 8V92TA Silvers (475's) as well as more cylinder heads, turbo chargers and superchargers than i care to count... There are untold piles of parts and engines spread around detroit, more than i probably care to know about... guess my pop is a DD pack rat... all he's ever owned... though all of his semi's to date are 60 series DDEC's... and of course the first thing he has to do is get them "reprogrammed" so he can get 80 tons of iron moving in a hurry around Detroit... Heck there's even a 440 John Deere Dozer with a 53 series in it sitting outside the shop lookin for some new tracks...

Fond childhood memories of lying on the doghouse of an IH Transtar II bouncing down the expressway with that 475 screaming beneath you humming you to sleep...

[Donziweasel]

As far as straight 6's, Ford's was definetly a good one. Another one was the Jeep straight 258 6. It only had a 114 hp, but gobs of low end torque. I believe this was the same engine Datsun used in the original 240Z, but with weber side draft carbs. Very rarely do you see an US engine jump to a Japanese manfacturer. As far as I know, Jeep used this engine for over 10 years in the base CJ's with the 304 V-8 an option.

[BUIZILLA]

Rootsy, I would be extremely interested in any usable 2-53, 3-53, 2-71, 3-71 stuff..... especially heads and blowers.... or complete engines..... :eek!: :wink:

71 and 92 series blocks are completely different animals, different family and different designs...

JH

[Rootsy]

music to my ears :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1YXx4kytNU

Buz,

you find my pop a 1-71 and you could probably trade for just about anything you want...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTPkeXvJ_HQ

the 2-71 GM's are for a couple of future IH Farmall conversions...

[Rootsy]

Now best gasoline engine... man that is tough... but honestly... most people think they are gutless and are fuel hogs... but be aware that is by FORD's choice in part setup and controls calibration... but my vote is strong for the current family of "modular" motor... the 4.6 and 5.3 litre engines.... 500,000 mile motors if you take care of them with proper regular maintenance... and performance potential is just quietly sitting there waiting to be unleashed... so as far as durability and potential they rank right up there... but they of course are not without fault... (intake manifold coolant leaks, spark plug moisture issues, cylinder head spark plug thread issues, etc etc etc...).

too many "good" designs out there to really narrow it down...



worst engine? man that is a long list for me........

[Donziweasel]

One problem I seem to have with my Detroits, be it a 71 block or a 92, is cracked heads. Not sure if it is the extremes in temps, from 100 degrees to -40, or what. We did switch oil to a manufacturer called Lubrication Engineers and I haven't blown an engine in almost a year. Blow by is way down and the engines are using less oil overall. It is expensive, way more than any regular manufacturer, but worth it if my engines stay together.

Green and Silver were the 92 series. Most rebuild shops, including Detriot, will not warranty a green block. Not sure what the major problem with them were, but over the years, I have switched out all my greens to silvers (mostly because the greens blew up). I also have parts out the wazoo for 92series- blowers, turbo's, starters, etc... Anyone need anything, let me know as some of these parts are getting hard to find.

I am also running some Series 60's, no huge complaints, except that they seem to have a lot of exhaust when first started in the morning. Our are DDEC III's. We have some Cummings 5.9's and these engines just seem to keep running and running and running. They take huge amounts of abuse and I can find very little to complain about with them for thier size.

Once road in a 70 ft Jet boat on the Snake River in Idaho that had 3 8V92's. Pretty amazing sound and power on the river. I was really impressed, especially when we went through Granite Rapid (Class V). The boat had a great tone.

[Rootsy]

Most of the Mackinac / St. Ignace to Mackinac Island ferries are 12 and 16V92 powered... some are still 12V71's... turning big ole jets instead of prop shafts... Everything there is a "We're the fastest to the Island" contest between ferry companies... THey are tough on equipment... My Father trucks a lot of engines he finds around Detroit to them as they are ALWAYS looking for spare and replacement engines...

[BUIZILLA]

Buz, you find my pop a 1-71 and you could probably trade for just about anything you want... ...I have only seen two 1-71's in my lifetime... there used to be one on display in the lobby of Fla. Detroit Diesel down here, but no one today knows where it went :crossfing, yes, I just called and asked them... the other one I saw was on an old shrimp farm on Key Biscayne, but this has been well over 30 years ago, i'll keeping searching...

:yes:

[Cuda]

My dad has always been a fan of diesels as long as I can remember. When he retired from the Navy, he taught diesel mechanics for Cummings for a couple of years.

When I bought my first diesel truck, it was a late 80's Ford, with the IH diesel. When I showed it to dad, I said it wasn't no Cummings. He said, "Nope, and it ain't no Detroit Diesel either". He likes DD, something to do with the ability to sleeve the cylinders or something.

[Cuda]

Now best gasoline engine... man that is tough... but honestly... most people think they are gutless and are fuel hogs... but be aware that is by FORD's choice in part setup and controls calibration... but my vote is strong for the current family of "modular" motor... the 4.6 and 5.3 litre engines.... 500,000 mile motors if you take care of them with proper regular maintenance... and performance potential is just quietly sitting there waiting to be unleashed... so as far as durability and potential they rank right up there... .......

It may have been a typo, but just to clarify, Ford had the 4.6 and the 5.4. I have owned both of them. I had a 98 4.6 F150, and a 99 5.4. The only reason I sold the 98, is because I wanted a four wheel drive. I had no problems at all with it, and was at 58k when I traded it for the 99. I still say the 99 is the best truck I ever owned. I put 122k on it, with nothing but oil changes and fuel filters. I did have to change an alternator at 111k. I'd still have that truck, but when I bought the Formula, I needed at least a 3/4 ton. I was worried about burning more fuel when I went from the 4.6 to the 5.4 with 4wd. The difference was 1 mpg less. As far as towing, I pulled a 25 foot travel trailer often with the 4.6, and it pulled it as strong as the 5.4.

[Donzigo]

Oh, I forgot one. I had a 1965 Sunbeam Alpine with a four cylinder English engine. I could take that bad boy down to the crank in about an hour. I'll let you figure out whether it would go in the worst or best category. I think everything the United Kingdom ever made with Lucas parts on it wasn't reliable. I had a buddy from Naples, (rich kid hobby), who raced MGs at Road Atlanta 20 years ago. He said they would take 12 starters for the three day weekend and used most of them during the weekend.............LOL

[Craig S]

Oh, I could take that bad boy down to the crank in about an hour. I'll let you figure out whether it would go in the worst or best category. I

That's what I was thinking about air cooled VW engines!

[glashole]

single cylinder Honda :)

its on every generator, wood splitter, pump etc that we have and you can't kill it

we had a HONDA 4 wheeler that quit half way through a ride, got it going, and kept quitting and the oil light was on

after an inspection we found we lost the oil drain plug out of the bottom earlier that day

put a new plug and oil in it and it works great to this very day

[Cuda]

Oh, I forgot one. I had a 1965 Sunbeam Alpine
I prefered the engine in a Sunbeam Tiger.:wink:

[BERTRAM BOY]

I'm not sure if it's the best engine of all time, but it's one of my all time favorites.......

1951 Chrysler Hemi 331 ci......then there's the Ford 427 side oiler....and the 1969 Ferrari V-12 (tipo 251 4.4 litre).

[wrussellw]

When I was approaching driving age the old man when out and "acquired" one of these beast's to teach my older brother and I to drive with.
Solid black, no window glass, still not sure where he found it, maybe the dump?
The engine spent one long winter in the family being rebuilt, learned alot though. My HD engine weighs more than the powerful 600cc engine it had.

[gcarter]

Several things....
1) Jim and Jamie, the 1-71 gen set...do you think it's running at 1200 or 1800 RPM?
2) Regarding the Rover/Buick V-8, any manufacturer can, if they're really commited, make a good engine. Most of the time the price is too high. For Rover, it worked well, they bought the rights to an engine that was already pretty well developed which made the cost of making it bullet proof affordable. I don't think GM had the will to develop it further. GM very seldom does.The SBC is an exception and an example of 50 years of refinement paying off in that it will continue to be produced for the foreseeable future.
3) European engines often suffered due to legislation dealing with archaic rules like "Taxable Horsepower" which accentuated stroke over bore and made almost any engine built to such rules rather agricultural in nature and very unpleasant to operate.
4) Some European engines were masterpieces because there was a will to do it well. Their small, sub-two liter engines would have to be produced for decades and therefore it was worthwhile. The US never was commited to small engines because there was never an inducement like horrendous taxation. They only paid lip service to small economical engines.

[Donziweasel]

I am not sure if anyone mentioned it yet, but of course the Chevy 350 SB has to be one of the best. Hell, they have been making it for 40+ years and I think eveyone at one time or another has been around one. Boats, cars, hotrods, etc.... I even know of some specially produced motorcycles with the 350 (Just out of curiosity, ever seen the special on Discovery Channel where someone put a Viper V10 in a motorcycle?) How many have been made? 1,000,000? I know some may say the Ford 351, but it was never quite as popular as the ole Chevy 350.

[Donzigo]

Cuda, I saw a Sunbeam Tiger (red) on I-4 near Orlando the other day. He blew past me and I couldn't catch him, even had the Yukon at 80 MPH for a while........what a cool car. I heard you had to take the passenger floorboard apart to change one of the spark plugs. Ford 289 engine. That was a screaming sports car, for sure.

[Cuda]

Donzigo, they had the Hi Po 289. I used to drag race back in the 70's in Oldsmar at a place called Twin City Dragstrip, there was a Tiger that used to come there a lot.

[BUIZILLA]

Cuda, I used to race my '70 340 Duster at the same strip in the 1971-72 years...

[Cuda]

Cuda, I used to race my '70 340 Duster at the same strip in the 1971-72 years...
Jim, it was probably 72, 73 when we raced there. One car that always was there always comes to mind when I think of those days, it was a green GTO named Pyro.

Yep, Twin City Dragstrip-- Home of the Action Traction
:cool:

[gcarter]

When I was approaching driving age the old man when out and "acquired" one of these beast's to teach my older brother and I to drive with.
Solid black, no window glass, still not sure where he found it, maybe the dump?
The engine spent one long winter in the family being rebuilt, learned alot though. My HD engine weighs more than the powerful 600cc engine it had.
DKW?

[wrussellw]

You got it George, DKW. Wound up turning it into a dune-buggy. Died out in the desert of southeast Washington State. Walked back to the highway and never looked back.

[yeller]

Couldn't hold out any longer. Have to toss in my 2 cents.

Best Auto: AMC inline six.
Best small: Briggs & Stratton single cylinder 4 stroke
Worst Auto: VW air cooled. Everyone used to rave about the reliability of the Beetle, but I never saw one that lasted more than 50K without a total rebuild.
Worst MC: Going to get killed...but...70's/80's Harleys. Leaked oil in the showrooms and needed a rebuild waaayyy too soon.

[Graham]

I'm not sure about "best" and "worst", I tend to love them all. I'll vote for the "all time most important American motors for the performance enthusiast":
1. Small block Chev - Proof: Even though it has past its 50th birthday, the SBC continues to be, by far, the most popular choice for anyone hotrodding a boat or car and looking for cheap and reliable power.
2. Chrysler 426 Hemi - Proof: Just check the sale prices at Barret-Jackson for any original hemi-powered Mopar car built during America's hotrodding heyday.
Any arguements?

[WA-LO]

How about 427 SOHC fords, they are quite a piece.

[gcarter]

How about 427 SOHC fords, they are quite a piece.
Unfortunately, they were NEVER available!!
Also, it sucked to set the valves.....upside down cam follower buttons w/ shim stock inside...totally trial and error. Old Jags used a similar set up.

[WA-LO]

That was on the very early cammers mine is a 66 and is fully adjustable.

[BUIZILLA]

a '64 triple black Marauder conv with a 427 SOHC and 4 speed just sold recently in Scottsdale :yes: :cool: ..... i'll try and find the pic's :crossfing

[WA-LO]

Mines in a 33 ford 3 window coupe ive been building it for 8 years and
finally got it finished last year if I had a decent camera I would take some pics.

[DON N.]

I Thought In 1969 The 427 Sohc Came In A Boss 429 Mustang .

[WA-LO]

They were built for nascar but nascar didnt allow them, so they were sold to
the drag race boys connie kalleta was given them to race and they did awsome, but were a little to exotic and production I think was limited to around 5000. Boss 429s however were produced in the mustang so ford could
race them in nascar there had to be at least 500 in production cars for this.

[f_inscreenname]

I'm sorry if anyone has said this but I think the 4.3 Chevy is one bad a$$ motor. I know its just a 350 with a couple cylinders knocked off but the last one I had never lacked power (it was in a 3/4 ton cargo van that hauled a lot of cargo over the years). I put 140,000 miles on it and I still see the guy now and then who bought it back in 2003. He says it still runs like a champ. Its on light duty now but in a day of disposable cars and motors it was like having a bic lighter that never dies. :wink:
As for the worst, Any motor that its parts cost 10 times what a Chevy costs.