Restore or modify?

[1996Z15]

Last question for the day? Does it hurt the value of your boats if you modify them? Scott Pearson's Donzi is the most beautiful 18' I have ever seen but, is it worth as much to a collector as a faithfully restored 18' would be?
Is this something I need to consider with my Minx or is there even a collector market for our boats? I know we all love the boats that we own but, I am referring to a collector market similar to the wooden Chris Crafts have. Does anyone think that the classic Donzi's will ever reach that point?

[MOP]

This should draw a lot of opinions, my feeling is no matter which way you decide to go it is how well it comes out. I sell boats and the biggest thing that sells them is condition, that first few minutes the boat sells or does not sell in the buyers eyes. Do it right and it will have good value, but rarely do any of us recoup our labor of love! If we get two or three good seasons the little we lose is not to bad and then we can buy another DONZI!

[Cuda]

I have a Minx that I am also working on. I'm building a new engine for it right now. I'm going to stay withe the original gel for now, probably redo the interior all white in case I want to change the color of the boat later. I'm thinking of changing to yellow to match my other boat. Even though I don't think yellow Minxs were made (never have seen one), it is a Donzi color.

[FlatRacer, aka BarrelBack]

The answer to your question is really a matter of opinion and consensus. In the case of Pearson's boat I don't really think he's hurt the value of the boat by improving it, especially if he intends to continue enjoying it as a working pleasure boat. The improved usability by the addition of power trim alone justifies, to me at least, the changes he's made.
Another reason I don't think it matters, right now at least, is the fact that we haven't seen much, if any interest in absolute time warp boats. There aren't that many "true collectors" out there. I don't remember reading any post by people looking for boats that "must be in mint original condition". However, that may change. If there were to be a national "Concours" fiberglass boat show, analagous to the Lake Tahoe ACBS woodie event, where boats were judged on originality, and winners were handed coveted trophies, then the premium on originality will rise.
There are currently the beginnings of a movement afoot in the ACBS to recognize classic fiberglass boats from the '50s and '60s. I don't quite know how they would accomodate such boats in their classification structure but I do believe they want to. If that happens, I could easily envision the creation of a very prestigious "best in class" honor at the Tahoe Concours that would certainly become something a lot of classic Donzi owners would aspire to.
So I guess the answer to the question of whether Donzis will ever reach that point is: It depends. It depends on what the ACBS wants to do, and it depends on what we want to do.
If we want to go that route, we can start handing out trophies at AOTH for "Best Original Donzi" along with "Best Restored Donzi" and "Best Modified Donzi", etc. (They don't do that there, do they? I haven't been to that event yet.) And then, I think things would naturally move in that direction. But remember, if that happens, then there must be a funding source for the trophies which means membership fees and the whole bureaucracy that comes with it. Do we want to do that?

FR :p

[olredalert]

-------Those of you who came to the 1000 Islands this past year may remember my friend Jack who was with Jan and I. Jack is an avid Corvette guy and an originality freak. He kept yackin about how these boats should be restored as original as possible,and a couple of us got tired of listening after a while.
------- My point being;a restored original boat now and then is great and good for the hobby,but the reason I like the DONZI hobby is that modifications (done well) are totally OK! If an 18 Corsican or a bench seat Hornet gets an engine transplant with a bunch more horsies and the boat can handle those horsies OK,then to me,the boat is worth more,or at least certainly not worth less. How much would I like my El Pescador if it still had the antiquated Iron Duke 4cyl motors and ancient Merc drives? Not near as much as I enjoy the twin 350/Alpha combos,I can tell you. We are all joined together at the hip here on the DONZI Registry because all of this DONZI foolishness is a bunch of fun.PERIOD! Values are more determined by condition than originality.Just my opinion.............Bill S

[MOP]

Bill S has bragging rights on a sweet boat, I got great shots of it at the 1000 Islands. It looks like most agree thats it is how well the job was done, there are many fine boats on the board. I can only try to come close but still distant from the really fine ones!

[Scott Pearson]

Thanks for the great complements everyone. I guess I will give my 2 cents here. On my 1968 18 I did alot of upgrades that are no where near original. But I kept all the original hardware and the original "Classic" look. Now...as far as my 1971 18 I will never touch and will always leave it original. Why? Because it is a 100% unmulested boat. I guess what I am saying is if the boat is all there and has never been touched then leave it alone.

My Bench Seat Hornet needs Everything....But I will have all 100% original hardware, Gauges, Helm etc. But, It will not be repowered with the original engine set-up. It will be left a V-Drive no question.

As far as what these boats are worth...Its worth what someone will pay. I would rather see a modified 55 Chevy thats done tastefull then an all original 55 Chevy. I guess thats why I hate Corvette shows...once you have seen one...you have seen them all. I really like tastefull modifications....I gives you more to look at!

(NJ)Scott

[Scott Pearson]

Ohh...one more thing...most wood boat people are nuts! Except Tom Lang...he is an exception. But my point being....They will pick a Chris Craft apart all day long for the smallest thing and they hate us fiberglass guys. Soooo my next project will be a double cockpit Chris Craft that will be powered with an blown,injected BB chevy with water jacketed Zoomie headers poking throught the hatch. This should piss the wood nuts off!


(NJ)Scott

[1996Z15]

Thanks for all the replies, I don't know what my plans are for my Minx, other than enjoy ot for now. It is nice to know that if I do decide to make some changes that it won't kill the boats value as long as I keep the mods tasteful and well thought out.

[FlatRacer, aka BarrelBack]

Great shots GCarter! I had not seen those before. Where did they come from???

FR :p

[rustnrot]

Thanks for the compliment, Scott Pearson!! I have read this thread with interest as I have spent several years thinking and living it both ways. I owned a classic Corvette in the 80's but finally sold it in the '90's partly because it screamed Bureaucracy! every time I looked at it. When I first got into the wood boat thing about 15 years ago one of the attractions was the laid back attitudes about originality (at least compared to Corvettes). Recently however, that is changing for the worse, IMHO. That said, I did two really correct Chris Craft restorations but got tired of that. There are many things that can be modified on these old boats that unless you scrutinized very carefully (e.g. 12 volt conversions, Pertronix solid state ignitions), (These things did not even have fused circuits originally), one would never know, that make them run much better. Of course there are those that even cry foul at that! Finally I gave up trying. I wanted to restore a rare Chris Craft barrelback I had, I finally decided to sell it before I even got started. Too many rules, and with a rare model like that it could effect its value. And then I get to drive around in a 35 mph boat (Ho Hum).

That said, and I know this cannot be so easily applied to cars and fiberglass boats, was to build a replica. Not only is it easier to build a new wood boat than restore some of old ones, the sky is the limit. A Street Rod on the water so to speak. 50 mph+, (that's better).

Where are I going with this, I don't really know there is no answer. But I will say this, there are more "cool dudes" than you may think at the old boat shows. Kind of like the division of red and blue states in this country.

[FlatRacer, aka BarrelBack]

rustnrot:
Not only is it easier to build a new wood boat than restore some of old ones, the sky is the limit. A Street Rod on the water so to speak. 50 mph+, (that's better). Amen, Rusty!

My Dad and I wanted to buy an original late '30s 16' Chris Craft racing runabout, but we were talked out of it. Instead we had Pete & Bill Fish http://www.adirondack.net/products/mahogany/ build us a replica using the original for reference. I built a nice 4.3 liter Buick V6 (slightly modified, of course) for it, and the combo made for a nice boat. Looks great, sounds even better and NO SOAKING!
http://www.geocities.com/kool_toyz/38special.html

Sometimes I think it's met with an unspoken snobbery by some people for being a replica, but that usually disappears when they go for a ride!
The best, however is the look on the faces of Jet Boat owners when I blow by their flabby 455 Olds powered Baja squirt guns! eek! I just live for that ****! :D
BTW, the glass stern pole globe I bought from you will be the finishing touch on the vintage look for our little "sleeper". Nice Father's day present.

FR :p