Classic 16 GPS results - ouch

[The Hedgehog]

Ran the 16 today on the GPS to get a baseline before buildup. The speedo typically shows 52-55mph penging on fuel, weight and chop.

Ran several back-to-back runs. Got 47.6 - 47.7 each time or 53 on the speedo. The boat is a 1990 16 with the OMC Cobra drive. Not sure what the gear ratio is but an spinning a 21" prop (not sure what kind, maybe a SST Viper?) and hitting around 4,600 RPM. The motor is a 2bbl OMC v-6. I am thinking around 175hp.

I know this is not exactly a performance package but I would expect on a nice cool day we could hit 50. I am guessing that with low fuel and nice chop it might happen but I was looking for a normal baseline. This still sounds kind of low. I was wondering with others with a similar package are seeing on the GPS.

[gold-n-rod]

Don't mean to hijack your thread, but a stock 5.0 SBC MPI will run 60 GPS. Given $1K per mph, does it really make sense to spend $11- 12K on a V6 to get to 60?

:)

[smokediver]

that is probably in the ballpark . i am thinking that a different prop might give you a couple , like an omc raker . that is an older tech. V6 . the newer ones with the vortec heads are pretty decent . i think you will be better off with what you have as i don't think there are a lot of internal upgrades for the newer 6es ... it may have something to do with the balance shaft .

[LKSD]

Don't mean to hijack your thread, but a stock 5.0 SBC MPI will run 60 GPS. Given $1K per mph, does it really make sense to spend $11- 12K on a V6 to get to 60?
:)


G Rod,
That may hold true, but I believe he is doing this to be unique & light weight.. :)

Bill,
I wouldnt let the speed currently worry you. It will be just that much of a larger speed increase when you are done.. BTW the cobra drives are ususally just slightly slower than the alphas.. That may account for why you are currently just missing the 50mph threshold.. Once you get the added power in there I believe you will see more of a difference.. BTW are you running thru hull on the v6 or thru prop?? :) Jamie

[blackhawk]

Don't mean to hijack your thread, but a stock 5.0 SBC MPI will run 60 GPS. Given $1K per mph, does it really make sense to spend $11- 12K on a V6 to get to 60?
:)

$1k per mph?!!! :confused:

[The Hedgehog]

G Rod,
That may hold true, but I believe he is doing this to be unique & light weight.. :)
Bill,
I wouldnt let the speed currently worry you. It will be just that much of a larger speed increase when you are done.. BTW the cobra drives are ususally just slightly slower than the alphas.. That may account for why you are currently just missing the 50mph threshold.. Once you get the added power in there I believe you will see more of a difference.. BTW are you running thru hull on the v6 or thru prop?? :) Jamie

Through prop.

[The Hedgehog]

Don't mean to hijack your thread, but a stock 5.0 SBC MPI will run 60 GPS. Given $1K per mph, does it really make sense to spend $11- 12K on a V6 to get to 60?
:)

Doing something different.

That addage is a little more applicable to bigger boats. I have little doubt that I could spend that kind of coin and get to 80+ in a v-6!

Not too worried about the low baseline.

[blackhawk]

Doing something different.
That addage is a little more applicable to bigger boats. I have little doubt that I could spend that kind of coin and get to 80+ in a v-6!
Not too worried about the low baseline.

Not to be rude toward goldnrod but I would not even consider that an adage. $1k per 1mph is even worse than the ever so popular 25hp=1 mph theory! :rolleyes:

In some situations it very well cost that. But in smaller, slower, lower hp boats no way. Especially in your situation starting out with lower hp. Hell, you could drop in a fully dressed marine 350 with 320hp for $6k and be running 70+ mph. That would be less than $275 per mph! :D

[smokediver]

Not to be rude toward goldnrod but I would not even consider that an adage. $1k per 1mph is even worse than the ever so popular 25hp=1 mph theory! :rolleyes:
In some situations it very well cost that. But in smaller, slower, lower hp boats no way. Especially in your situation starting out with lower hp. Hell, you could drop in a fully dressed marine 350 with 320hp for $6k and be running 70+ mph. That would be less than $275 per mph! :D
You might get 65 with that setup , without a alpha ss ... you need about 400 horse to break 70 in a 16 on average ... just my experience with mine ...

[Last Real Texan]

Through prop.
Bill........What gives ? that thing is running those IMCO thumpers and exiting the transom is it not?


Bryan

[blackhawk]

You might get 65 with that setup , without a alpha ss ... you need about 400 horse to break 70 in a 16 on average ... just my experience with mine ...

Really? I didn't realize the 16 was a slower hull than the 18! Well, even at 65mph that's only $350 per mph! :D

[BigGrizzly]

BH It is NOT a slower hull than a 18. A3 50 smbc won't do 70 plus in an 18 without work. A well set up 18 with a 350mag and proped to the hill will bearly see the top of the 60mph. the 350 mag is what 315 hp. Hardly enough. Most of the 70 pluss i8 are worked 383s. Poodles will a Vortex head worked 383 with all the best stuff.As for the 4.3 a good one like pressure drop has will do 52. The OMC is probably the one withthe coil pack if it is ditch it because the partsare no longer available plus they have issues. Put on a distributor and a coil and it will pick up some Bateman's did. The drive vs the merc is so close it isn't and issue. one of our guys switch the drive because someone told him the merc was better. he didn't gain or loose anything but $5000(he had to have presteen stuff) The project can be fun, and the boat is a blast to play in. we still have ours and last night My sister said she will never sell it. If her husband doesn't like it HE can leave. she was serious. Anyway do the project and see what comes out. That is why they call it a project and testing.

[gold-n-rod]

Really? I didn't realize the 16 was a slower hull than the 18! Well, even at 65mph that's only $350 per mph! :D

Stay with me here. A stock 5.0 mpi runs the 16 to 60 (My boat proves that). Your hypothetical hi-po 350 runs the 16 to 65 (per smokediver). So a $6K motor gets 5 mph..... more than $1K a mph.

Sure, there are "things" one can do to a slow boat that cost less than $1k/mph. My point is that starting with a V8 is more cost effective. But that's not Grizz's intent.

BTW, the "addage" referred to earlier is something I picked up over the years. I think it applies to performance boats that are already performing at their peak "stock" performance.

What about the rest of y'all. Does this old "addage" hold true???

[Carl C]

$1K a mph.
Does this old "addage" hold true??? Close enough. Unless you want to dump a bunch of cheap NO2 into the motor but that's only good for short bursts.

[Last Real Texan]

All this makes for good reading......Big Green is , I think doing this to test and do somethings differently than most....My hat is off to him, he has already done the IMCO thumper thing to it and wants to use what he has, I think it is very ambishish (sp) to try and do some things differently than the status quoe. I think he is headed in the right direction and only time will tell how much he picks up with it, Good start Bill and it should scream with the procharger on it next season ( or whenever you get around to it ) until then with the planned upgrades for now it will make an awesome sleeper and something that is a lot of fun to drive and dust off the occasional GAS PUMP, sipping fuel @ 55-60 in a 16 footer will be a blast!
Get to it!
Bryan

[blackhawk]

BH It is NOT a slower hull than a 18. A3 50 smbc won't do 70 plus in an 18 without work. A well set up 18 with a 350mag and proped to the hill will bearly see the top of the 60mph. the 350 mag is what 315 hp. Hardly enough. Most of the 70 pluss i8 are worked 383s. Poodles will a Vortex head worked 383 with all the best stuff.As for the 4.3 a good one like pressure drop has will do 52. The OMC is probably the one withthe coil pack if it is ditch it because the partsare no longer available plus they have issues. Put on a distributor and a coil and it will pick up some Bateman's did. The drive vs the merc is so close it isn't and issue. one of our guys switch the drive because someone told him the merc was better. he didn't gain or loose anything but $5000(he had to have presteen stuff) The project can be fun, and the boat is a blast to play in. we still have ours and last night My sister said she will never sell it. If her husband doesn't like it HE can leave. she was serious. Anyway do the project and see what comes out. That is why they call it a project and testing.

It was my understanding that an 18 with a 350 mag ran 66-68mph. :confused:

[blackhawk]

Stay with me here. A stock 5.0 mpi runs the 16 to 60 (My boat proves that). Your hypothetical hi-po 350 runs the 16 to 65 (per smokediver). So a $6K motor gets 5 mph..... more than $1K a mph.
Sure, there are "things" one can do to a slow boat that cost less than $1k/mph. My point is that starting with a V8 is more cost effective. But that's not Grizz's intent.
BTW, the "addage" referred to earlier is something I picked up over the years. I think it applies to performance boats that are already performing at their peak "stock" performance.
What about the rest of y'all. Does this old "addage" hold true???

Ok, stay with me. Pull out V6 and put in 350 and pick up 17 mph. 17mph for $6k or $350 per mph.

I wasn't implying it is NEVER true I just think many times it's not. These are boats and are very subjective. So, IMO these "rules" simply don't apply. It's a case by case basis depending on weight, hull efficiency, current hp and speed, etc, etc.

[Sam]

Blackhawk, your in the ballpark. Randy Oak's 18 runs a steady 68 all day long and a little faster with a prop change and good water conditions.

[Rootsy]

power for power, drive for drive, out of the BOX.... an 18 is faster... but more so because it is more stable and you can air it out to get the speed that it is capable of.

power for power, alpha SS for alpha SS the 16 and 18 aren't that far apart...

380 cranshaft HP in my 16.. with a Gen II alpha got me 68 GPS... and it was ALLLLLLL i could do to hang onto it and keep it out of severe chinewalk.. no matter which prop i ran AT THAT SPEED...

so i guess it boils down to.... not how much power you have.. but if you can put it to the water and keep the hull under control....

but that's just my worthless opinion...

[pressure drop]

Big,
As Big grizz stated I was doing 54.6 (best run) at Eufala last Sept. This was with myself & wife with 3/4 tank of fuel (tank was full each day prior to leaving Lake Point) This is a GPS reading not spedo. Speedo was pegged. Big Grizz slowed down and kept pace with me (to make me feel fast:hyper: ) And verifies my speed.

My specs last Sept.
Water Conditions: Damn calm (no chop to help lift/reduce drag)
Motor: 4.3LX
Drive: Alpha Gen II 1.81
Prop: ? 23pitch
Max RPM: 4950
Items onboard: Wife, Myself, Life vests, Camera, Dock lines. No anchors (thanks Mr. X) almost full fuel.

Just a side note: Speed is NOT only reserved to the Motor/Drive. Some tricks to the hull help!!

[BigGrizzly]

Heck I wasn't trying to make you feel good, I was trying to get a good picture of your good looking wife. Yes I did GPS speed you and your GPS was within a tenth of a mile per hour of both of mine. I usually drive with at least 2 GPS at all times if possible. One thing I need to note we were testing and as Garry does in the winter he did a water density test usibg temp and specific gravity meter (similar to a antifreez checker and found it to be at a denser stage than the weel of laborday. This has an effect mort on the lower unit than the hull because the drive is pushing through the water as oppose to sliding on top of it. He says the water has more effect on speed than the cool air. Since you guys are two lakes down sterrm it makes sence you will also lose speed. We were down to 114 from 117 mph in September. To my surprise the tach was reading the same. If it is correct. I would not have beleived it if I hadn't seen it. 50+ years on the water and I still learning new stuff. Life is still fun. Maybe the ouch isn't so ouch after all.

[The Hedgehog]

That is the feedback I was looking for. At least with the low baseline, I can feel good about the gains we will be getting.

[BigGrizzly]

Green this is the fun stuff. You'll besurprised what you learn and what you already know but didn't know you knew! If I can help Give me a shout. Keep the board informed so we can all benifit from the project. IMO a 16 at 55 can be as much fun as a 22 at 80->90. When I take my Corsican out the people in cove call it the 4 seat jet-ski.

[Cuda]

Water's most dense point is at 4 degrees Celsius. Colder than that, it starts losing density, hence ice floats.

[BigGrizzly]

Scott, I forgot that Sanford trip. that was when we first met Ted. That was when our wives and Donzi Di got together and deasribed our garages and basments. they though we were all pack rats. I prefer the term selective storers/ Cuda you are exactly correct!

[Cuda]

I'm kind of doing the same thing with Debbie's 22. We made a couple of baseline runs, on different days, with the same load (full tank, Deb and I in the boat) on the same stretch of the river. Both times we got 59.4 on the gps, with no trimming. I'm going to do the upgrades one at a time, to see what make what difference. I'm doing the exhaust now, and get a number, then if it's all good, I'll do the intake and carb. If that satisfies us, I may have to find another HP 500 to put in the Formula. :wink:

[sweet 16 1966]

My stock 302 will run 51. GPS'ed only once. If I want to go faser, my preference would be a larger boat. Grizz is right about the fun factor of a 16 in the 50's! Good luck with the experience and keep us posted with the results. Grizz, I have a good 8 X 10 of your boat last summer I need to bring you.

[jl1962]

My boat runs mid - 50's and it's plenty lively !!!! Whether it's my own "unique" skill set as a driver or the boat's "unique" handling characteristics, no one on board is clamoring to go much faster!!!

Speed is all relative. My most memorable ride was as a 9 year old driving a 13' Whaler w/ a 50HP Merc, THAT boat ran about 50MPH!

16's are like old wooden roller coasters - not the fastest but tons of fun! I always tell people the boat is not as fast as it looks and no where near as fast as it sounds, but everyone leaves happy!

Still wanna try a Solas this summer.

JL
1967 Ski Sporter

[Pismo]

You might get 65 with that setup , without a alpha ss ... you need about 400 horse to break 70 in a 16 on average ... just my experience with mine ...


400 prop hp in a 22 will get you solidly into the 70s so why is a 16 such a slow hull?

[smokediver]

I think a lot has to do with the hook in the hull and less running surface . Also there is probably more torque in the big block that is in the 22 . My engine has a lot of torque but it is mostly in the 3-4000 rpm range . I think all the wiggling around in the 16 at those speeds also has a little something to do :propeller :yes:

[Diesel Dog]

They make a Stroker kit for the 4.3, I think it comes out to 277cid?
That would give you a little more go and you could use your stock bore.:shades:

[Rootsy]

400 prop hp in a 22 will get you solidly into the 70s so why is a 16 such a slow hull?

400 prop HP in a 16 will get you solidly into the mid to upper 70's... IF YOU CAN HANG ONTO IT.....

[Pismo]

400hp in a 22 is a handful, must be nuts in a 16.