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new guy
11-15-2006, 10:56 PM
Is a f150 big enough to tow a 28zx on a three axle trailer for any length of distance?

The Hedgehog
11-15-2006, 11:02 PM
I would not want to tow it far.

I use a F-250 Diesel. It does a great job. The guy I bought the boat from used a F-250 gas (V-8 i think). He said he would like to have had more power. I imagine that you would get pushed around in a F-150 and would dread going uphill on the interstate.

To and from the marina, yes. Lots of lengthy trips would not be good.

new guy
11-15-2006, 11:08 PM
Do you think there is much difference in towing a 28 on a two axle versus a three axle trailer?

Formula Jr
11-16-2006, 02:41 AM
No. Two axle is fine for a 28.
Tires are rated in weight class. A,b,c, e etc. Match the tires to the load and you are good. Make sure one side can handle a flat till you get it fixed. E stuff will do that....
A 150 is marginal. Depends on where you are towing.



Do you think there is much difference in towing a 28 on a two axle versus a three axle trailer?

The Hedgehog
11-16-2006, 06:04 AM
Last Real Texan and I both use tandem axel trailers on ours. They are just fine.

Mr X
11-16-2006, 06:16 AM
It also depends what axles you are talking.....there are different wieght ratings for trailer axles.....

gcarter
11-16-2006, 07:00 AM
Doesnt make any difference how many axles you have, an F150 is not a good vehicle for towing that size boat anywhere. Forget pullling (yes, it will pull it) and think about evasive manuvers or stopping it.. You talking 8000 lbs minimum behind your truck, not an easy load.. A tandem can easily handle the load BTW, it just needs to be properly spec'd out...
This is an interesting subject...
The new heavy duty Toyota Tundra is "supposed" to have a 12,000# towing capacity. Can these ratings from the manufacturers be believed? Are they according to some formula, or is there some government body that certifies these ratings?

Last Real Texan
11-16-2006, 07:05 AM
As stated above it is not the pulling it that will make it all good, it is the stopping of the entire rig, be it evasive or just stopping for a light that has just turned yellow or red for that matter. I tow heavy on a weekly basis ( 40 ft Gooseneck 20,000 lbs ) and have had my share of scares in my one ton dually, wet brakes and getting pushed through an intersection by my trailer. I pull the ZX with this and it does a fantastic job, overkill I know but I already had the truck. As Big Green said to and from the ramp on flat land close by maybe? would I hook up and go 100-200 miles with it? NO. Towing capacity on the F-150 I believe is about 7000-9000 LBs properly equiped, mind you this is for a 2 wheel drive regular cab truck,the more doors and weight you add to the truck cuts the towing capacity down, IE crew cab,4x4,etc.....coolers wife kids gear for the weekend.
I would say 3/4 ton to be safe.....Get the right tow vehicle:convertib now and enjoy the boat not stressing getting it to the lake and back with your family in a potentially hazzardous(sp) stiuation, they will thank you in the long run.
Axles make no matter on the pulling ability. 2 axles fine in the proper weight range ....go to three axles and get ready to buy front and back tires pretty often from tearing them up in tight turns.
I will get off my soapbox now.

Team Jefe
11-16-2006, 07:08 AM
Guy - I've towed a big Donzi "a few miles" to say the least (and I don;t think I am the lone ranger here). Still I have learned a thing or two about this activity.

1. ANY 1/2 ton truck is not adaquate to pull that big a load. Yes it will phisically do it, but stopping, evasive manuvers, etc....the boat will be pushing the truck and in control.

2. Lots of guys use the 250/2500 class trucks and they work fine. Butn I like the added feel of the 1 ton. I've used both on the Revenge and just like the long range feel of using the bigger set up.....Especially now with the Dually MEGA CAB (yes Poodle I have to do it).

3. As for Trailers. I hate triple axles. They have more maintanence, more tires, more expense and Less manuverability. The correctly set up tandem trailer is MUCH better IMHO. All previous posts are correct (they should be as these guys are the experts).

Tire load capacity is a big issue with me. I ran 8 ply 15" trailer tires (several brands) for about a year and blew out 6 tires in that year. Basically at 70MPH the tires were heating up and de-laminating. I even tried 10 ply and they worked well for longer, but still I lost one in BFE Louisiana and that was it for me.

SO, I retrofitted the trailer (really just lifted the fenders) and installed 16" wheels with Radial E-rated Truck tires. Tehse were pull offs from the F-350, 265/70/16 and have had NO Issues since then. They basically have twice the load capacity I need and I love them. I'm one my second set now (I ran the first set about 25K miles), and pull offs are easy to get at the local tire shop, just get them looking for the tires a little before you need them. This second set I paid $35/tire.

I think there are some better 15" tires out there now so investigate that as well.

The X-man is right with the axles too. If you are getting a used trailer, be sure the axles are rated for the load. My tandem has twin 6K lb axles.

Mr X
11-16-2006, 07:51 AM
Well said Jefe.
FWIW......I tow my 28ZX Scorpion with a tripple axle rated at 10,500 Lbs
It does distribute the weight over six tires, so less stress on everything,
and if I have a blowout in BFE, I can limp on 5 or even 4 tires if I have to.
And yes I do carry a spare, soon to be 2 spares.

Cuda
11-16-2006, 08:34 AM
I pulled my 302 Formula with my F 150 4x4 for short distances, and s l o w l y.
As pointed out, it would pull it, but stopping was problematic at best.:eek!: I also think a triple axle seems to drag, or push a tire worse than a tandem when making sharp turns at the ramp etc, and I think a tandem would be adequate for the 28, but given the choice, I'd go triple axle with torsion axles. With torsion axles, if you have a flat, just take the wheel off and go to where you can get it fixed SAFELY, ie, get off the interstate. With leaf spring axles, you have to chain the spring to the frame in order to continue if you don't have a spare to put on, or cannot put it on for various reasons.

Lenny
11-16-2006, 08:57 AM
After towing Buzilla's 30 Scarab @ 10,000 pounds, and pulling it back from the Keys, I have to say, that the Chebby 2500 Diesel, with (now) almost 900 FT pounds of torque :eek: is quite something to say the least.

Leaving from a stop light, 10K in tow, about 1500 pounds of tongue weight, and "lighting up the tires" under the truck with NO trouble whatsoever, all the while pushing you into your seat, ... well, I was blown away.

Gotta get me sump'in like that one day. :yes:

BUIZILLA
11-16-2006, 09:17 AM
aaahemm..... it's a GMC :wink:

the REALLY funny part is, Cliff couldn't even keep up with us out of that toll booth whatsoever in his new Mustang Conv.... in fact, we were pulling away from him.... not to mention it spun both rear tires ALL the way thru first and second gears... :cool: and the head gaskets are oh_so_comfy intact :yes:

JH

jeddski
11-16-2006, 07:52 PM
We used to tow our 12,500lb sailboat (+another 1,000lb for the trailer) with a V8 F-150..... at about 5mph around the boat yard to get it to the crane....


On a more serious note, anyone use a VW Toureg to tow? I've been looking at the V10 Turbo Diesel which supposedly has a 9,500lb towing capacity.
Seems like it would be just the thing for a 5,500lb donzi?

BUIZILLA
11-16-2006, 08:32 PM
I had a Touareg with a V8, and it pulls like a freight train, I won't admit here what I had it up to with the Critter, but it was triple digits...the V10 will outpull the V8...

JH

Donzi Di
11-16-2006, 08:43 PM
aaahemm..... it's a GMC :wink:
the REALLY funny part is, Cliff couldn't even keep up with us out of that toll booth whatsoever in his new Mustang Conv.... in fact, we were pulling away from him.... not to mention it spun both rear tires ALL the way thru first and second gears... :cool: and the head gaskets are oh_so_comfy intact :yes:
JH

Jim,

Two responses...

1. We were just in awe of how well the truck pulled that boat (and very happy knowing that our GMC at home could do that)

AND

2. Remember - we were in a FORD after all.

Diana

jeddski
11-16-2006, 09:39 PM
BUIZILLA

Do you think the V10 is overkill? There is a hefty price difference between the V8 and the diesel V10 (even when looking at them 1-3 years old).
Does it have the brakes to back up the towing capacity?
How long does it take to stop 6,000lbs of boat and 4,500lbs of car going 100+?:eek!:

Lenny
11-16-2006, 11:08 PM
interesting tow vehicle

BUIZILLA
11-17-2006, 07:03 AM
the V10 is total overkill for what you want, and NOBODY knows how to work on them at the dealer level anyways. The V8 will absolutely do the job with the 6 speed tranny.... trailer hitch is about $1100 installed though...

I have a V10 engine on the way to me right now from Barbados, for a good customer that wants me to repair a bunch of bent valves and smacked pistons...

JH

Team Jefe
11-17-2006, 07:05 AM
Well said Jefe.
FWIW......I tow my 28ZX Scorpion with a tripple axle rated at 10,500 Lbs
It does distribute the weight over six tires, so less stress on everything,
and if I have a blowout in BFE, I can limp on 5 or even 4 tires if I have to.
And yes I do carry a spare, soon to be 2 spares.

Good Point Ted, I'd love to have more rubber on teh road during those long trips to LA. Like Cuda Said, blowout?...no problem just keep on goin'
My biggest point is manuverability, I have to make some pretty tight turns lots of times (not to mention every time at home) and I think that stresses the trailer more with a triple. Its kinda, six of one and Half-a-dozen of another. With the right set up both work very well


Jim,
Remember - we were in a FORD after all.
Diana

In my mind's eye I see that sweet smile on that pretty little face, and I look down to see a slender hand holding the hilt of a knife stuck in my chest:frown:

BUIZILLA
11-17-2006, 07:12 AM
My biggest point is manuverability, I have to make some pretty tight turns lots of times (not to mention every time at home) and I think that stresses the trailer more with a triple. I have a triple ONLY because it came with the boat.... I cannot turn it around the circle on the end of my street without buying someones front yard, or 3..., so I have to back down the entire street into my driveway EVERY TIME, pain in the ass, especially at night. With a tandem it would be no problem. The triple tows like a dream, but you can destroy expensive real estate shoeing it around.

Donziweasel
11-17-2006, 02:41 PM
A couple of things-

First, tow ratings are a lot like sleeping bag ratings. A sleeping bag rated for 20 degrees means you will survive down to 20 degrees, it does not say you will be comfortable at that temp. Tow ratings are the same. My wife has a new F-150 with the 5.4 L and although it is rated for something like 7000 pounds, it is only comfortable pulling around 3000. It will pull 7000, but it would be white knuckled driving and very uncomfortable to say the least. She can pull my 16C no problem, but even that small a boat at this altitude is work for her truck.

As far a V-10 vs. V-8 in a 3/4 ton, go with the 10. Although the 5.4 L is rated at 300 horses, it is still kinda doggie in a truck that big. I have had a v-10, and except for bad gas mileage, it pulled everything I needed it to.

Personally, I would never buy a 3/4 ton or 1 ton without a turbo diesel. I own a 2005 F-350 6.0L turbo diesel and love it. Plenty of power. It does cost 5,000.00 to 6000.00 more than a gas engine, but with almost double the fuel mileage. If you ran both trucks (one V-10 and one Desiel) for 200,000 miles, you would save almost $20,000.00 in fuel with the desiel. Makes the initial cost of the desiel seem pretty small overall. Plus, desiels are known for longevity and will run twice as long as a gas engine. Just my 2 cents.

Shanghied Again
11-18-2006, 09:34 AM
I have a Ford F150 new and i tow my 26ZX no problem, I have towed a 28ZX with my truck to Lake Hoptacong up hills from Toms River thats about 85 miles north, I had no problem but I would recomend a F250, I have a 9000lb load pull on my truck and the 28ZX with a trailer and gas is almost 9000lbs when you get to hills she struggles taking off. once rolling I ran 70+ miles per hour with the load. Go with a tandem and get the biggest carry weight so you wheels are larger, the less strain on the trailer the better the pull. makesure you get brakes all wheels, stainless disc, she stops on the dime and puts no stress on your truck.

Magicallbill
11-20-2006, 02:28 AM
Jason bought a Dual Chev.('06) with the Duramax,3:73 gears.
Tows his 23 ZF great.
Donziweasel,could you please clarify,or support your comment about diesels getting"Twice The Mileage" of gas engines? I've never heard of that, and the casual conversations I've had at truck stops and gas stations with other diesel owners do not substiante that.
We towed the ZF to the Keys and back this summer,65-70 or so and got 7-9MPG. The ZF weighed in at 7400 LBS.
My 454 gas engine in my 98 would get that towing the same boat.
There is nothing wrong with Jason's truck. he was amazed at the poor mileage after what he had been told,so he took it back to the dealership, they checked it completly over...clean bill of health.

I'm waiting for Poodle to jump in and say "If you only had an F-350..."

Cuda
11-20-2006, 05:51 AM
Jason bought a Dual Chev.('06) with the Duramax,3:73 gears.
Tows his 23 ZF great.
Donziweasel,could you please clarify,or support your comment about diesels getting"Twice The Mileage" of gas engines? I've never heard of that, and the casual conversations I've had at truck stops and gas stations with other diesel owners do not substiante that.
We towed the ZF to the Keys and back this summer,65-70 or so and got 7-9MPG. The ZF weighed in at 7400 LBS.
My 454 gas engine in my 98 would get that towing the same boat.
There is nothing wrong with Jason's truck. he was amazed at the poor mileage after what he had been told,so he took it back to the dealership, they checked it completly over...clean bill of health.
I'm waiting for Poodle to jump in and say "If you only had an F-350..."
I have an '05 F350 diesel. I get between 17 and 18 mpg with only my tools on the truck. I once hauled about 4000 pounds of tile from Orlando to Tamp and got 17.9 mpg. This weekend I got 15.3 mpg pulling the 22 to Palatka. Towing my Formula 302, I get between 12 and 13 mpg. Compare that to a Ford V 10 that you'd be lucky to get over 10 mpg empty. As for the cost of a diesel vs gas, where you make your money is on the back end. Try selling a HD truck with a gas engine. You can't give them away. A diesel truck with more miles on it will always get more money when it's time to sell or trade.

Team Jefe
11-20-2006, 07:15 AM
A few more things from my expereince:

Frank in on the money with the trailer brakes. I pulled the Revenge for a couple of years without brakes. The F-350 stopped it fine....I thought. Well, live and learn. All that "Great" stopping power had a price. I had to completely replace the truck's brake system, pads, calipers, rotors, lines, everything....WAY more expensive than fixing the trailer brakes:bonk:

Bill - regarding MPG. First I have ZERO experience with the Duramax.
Here is what I do know.

2001 2500 HD 4X4, 6.0L Gas, Auto, 36K miles, Avg MPG 11.2 (14 empty, 7-8 w/ trailer). About 50-50% loaded vs. empty.

2002 F350 4X4, 7.3L 96K miles, Auto, Avg MPG 15.2. 70% of that was pulling the Revenge (9,000ish). The MPG didn't vary as much as with the gas motor.

2006 MEGA CAB 4X4 (actually to be fair it is a 6-speed manual), 5.9L Cummins, 1093 Miles. I havn't even broke it in yet. So far empty, 18-19 mpg (When I'm not driving it like a sports car) and about 16 pulling the boat.

So, for me it is the way a gas motor pulls that makes the difference. at 70 MPH, My 6.0 Chevy was around 3500 RPM towing in 3rd gear (w/ tow/haul engaged). The F350 was at 1900 RPM in overdrive (no issues at all pullinig in OD). The MEGA is at 2200 RPM, but being smaller that the Ford, int makes sense to me that it will get better mileage.

Also, my "Need" for 4X4 costs MPG (no news there). Just to compare. My dad had a 2001 7.3L 2 wheel drive (crew cab LWB like mine) and got 21-22 MPG with a minimum of 5K loaded in the truck at all times

Also, as I think about it, it seems the Weeeaasel was really talking about the Ford V-10 vs. the Ford Diesel.....I think????

I too am AMAZED (to say the least) about the Duramax only getting 7-9 MPG. That is WAY less than they advertise. What does it get empty?

Magicallbill
11-20-2006, 01:01 PM
T.Jefe;

I am amazed at yours and Cuda's& Poodle's numbers.
It's Jason's truck..
Empty,he gets 15-17MPG. It goes South when he hooks the 23 ZF up to it.
We did notice that when we slow to 55-60,like in construction zones, MPG goes up to 10.
I just don't get it;the truck is computer-perfect.

Unless...

It's just that the Duramax's get lousy mileage.
The Fords and Dodges have been working with the diesels longer,maybe they have 'em dialed in better.
Plus, I forgot to mention the center-console T-top that would be catching air with the cover on it, as opposed to lower-profile boats giving less drag.
Just pisses me; we spend all that extra for a Duramax,and the only time it gets good mileage is when we are NOT towing anything,and there's no point in driving around in a Diesel if your not gonna pull something.
I'm sure Cuda's right on the trade-factor, heck, I'd like Jason to keep the thing for awhile.
Thanks all.

MB.

BUIZILLA
11-20-2006, 01:26 PM
My 2006 Dmax bobtail at 78mph gets exactly 20mpg...

towing my 9,200# Scarab to KW and back last weekend netted me 15.8 going down, and 15.3 coming back...

I have had 3 Dmax's now, and they all, including the 2002 dually, got better than 14-16 around town. My 2002 dually pulling a 12,000# trailer got 10.8 at 75 mph.

JH

gcarter
11-20-2006, 01:57 PM
Gearing?

Magicallbill
11-21-2006, 02:17 AM
3:73 Mr.Carter..
We must have a truck put together by some guy at GM who was mad at his girlfriend that week or something. I don't know what else would cause that big a swing in mileage with similar engines and loads.
Sorry, I realized I've been changing the subject of this thread..It's not all about me, believe it or not.
To the gent who posted this first, buy bigger than you need..at least somewhat.I've never been sorry about overkill in vehicles..(Except when they get 7-9MPG.)

gcarter
11-21-2006, 06:03 AM
Do you know for a fact your transmission goes into overdrive?
Have you had the fuel management system checked?
It's fascinating yours is so different.

Magicallbill
11-25-2006, 02:06 AM
George;
It's got the Allison..Jason says it shifts 6 times.
I don't know whether the Fuel Management System has been checked. He took it into the dealership,as I said earlier, to have the poor mileage looked into, and they said it was perfect. I'm assuming they looked at all relevant aspects of the problem.
It may be "One Of Those Trucks," I dunno....
It was one hefty fuel bill, pulling the ZF to the Keys this summer from Indiana with the prices the way they were..$80.00/$90.00 a pop every 300 miles or so. There was a tank or two where it got 7 MPG. Now that sucked....

Avialanche
11-26-2006, 07:58 AM
My 04 Chevy Avalanche 2500 w/4:10 gears & 8.1 Gas V-8 gets 10 mpg avg with 9,000lb boat/trailer combo, 13.5 avg without, tows really well, stable & awsome brakes.

Any 02 to 06 Avalanche 2500 w/4:10 axle ratio is rated for 12,000 lbs
Any 02 to 06 Avalanche 2500 w/3:73 axle ratio is rated for 10,500 lbs

The 2500 series Avalanche were only availabe with the 8.1(496cu.)gas engine

BUIZILLA
11-26-2006, 02:07 PM
George;
It's got the Allison..Jason says it shifts 6 times. I don't think so, that would make it a 7 speed...

Avialanche
11-26-2006, 07:07 PM
Lots of people mistake the last shift as a gear shift when it's really the torque converter going into lock-up mode(direct coupling).

Donziweasel
11-27-2006, 09:20 AM
Magic-
I have a fleet of many vehicles, but included are 10 Ford Vans and 7 Ford Excursions, as well as my personal F-350. We see around 11-12 mpg with the V-10 in an Excursion and 12-12.5 in a E-350 Van w/V-10. Our power strokes consistantly get 19-21 mpg in the vans and I get around 20 MPG in my truck. Not double, but close. This is enough for me to switch my fleet over to deisel, which I have been doing for the last three years. When your fuel bill is $145,000.00 per year, it just makes sense. I feel I am saving huge money over the life of the vehicle in fuel plus getting a higher re-sale value when I sell. Also, the diesels don't even break a sweat while the V-10's struggle a little at this altitude, esepcially going over the mountain passes. Hope this helps.

BTW- Ford has announced thier new 6.4 L TWIN turbo for the 2008 Superduty family. I am on the Ford Fleet program and have been getting bulletins on it. Supossedly it has 650 Ft #'s of torque, the most in the industry, and is quieter and more fuel efficient than the Cummings and Dura-max. Also, they took care of all of the problems associated with the 6.0L. Something to watch as I have already been talking with Ford about a new 2008 F-350.

Magicallbill
11-27-2006, 09:18 PM
Thanks, D.Weasel
We have talked to some of our friends who have similar rigs here locally,and they get single-digit mileage like us.
Then there's you all who get better, so I guess this is the deck we've been dealt. Apparently, they turn all kinds off the assembly line,and we have, well, we have what we have....

Madcow
11-28-2006, 09:38 PM
Just keep this in mind, if you pull more weight than you truck is rated for and somthing happens your insurance will not pay for it. And they will do all they can to figure out how much weight you were pulling. I have seen it happen.

Magicallbill
11-30-2006, 02:42 AM
Madcow, I have heard that.
I wish that was the problem.
The frusterating thing is that the ZF we tow weighs 7400Lbs. Well below the Dual-Wheel Durmax's capacity.

Oh yeah, George, I towed Jason's ZF up to Michigan yesterday, got 8.2 with my 98 454 K2500..Same as the Duramax.
I guess when you pull Jason's boat,you get 8MPG.
My truck pulled the boat well, but you could feel it jerk the truck around a bit,where that push-pull sensation was non-existent in the Dual-Wheel.
Another reason for the gent who started this thread to buy a bigger truck for his ZX, or whatever it was.

Magicallbill
12-05-2006, 05:59 PM
23 ZF had to go back to Michigan again..More work..
Jason went to get it today.
Up;Empty--16 MPG.
Boat in tow coming back---8 MPG.

Cut In Half....

Judas....

Donziweasel
12-07-2006, 07:15 PM
I might be running less fuel because of altitude. With less 02, less fuel dumped via fuel injection. But you also lose about 18-20% of your hp. This is one obvious reason my Donzi is so damn slow. It does go drop pretty bad when towing, especially over passes. Diesel is 2.77 a gallon ou there today, unleaded 2.60.