1968 Classic 18 2+3; V-Drive; Barrel Back

[fastcat]

SOLD!!!! 6-19-07

It was a hard decision, but we have decided to sell our beautiful
boat. This is your chance to own a piece of Donzi history. The Barrel
Back V-Drive is very rare and they come available for sale only once in a
while; especially one that needs nothing, just a nice new home. We have
done a lot of work recently, so you don't have to.
The boat runs strong but we have never actually run it at full throttle so we don't know the top speed- We’ve had it to 48 but since we aren’t in to speed, (on the water anyway), we didn’t push it. It felt like it had plenty more to give.
Here are the details:
350 SBC- previous owner had it rebuilt 8 years ago then only put 25 hours on it, we have added about 30 hours.
Casale V-Drive
Bennet Trim Tabs
All gauges work- all are new except speedometer which is pretty accurate vs. GPS
Driver and passenger seats and rear seat cushion are in excellent
condition; no stains or tears. The back seat back cushion looks good but
upon close inspection you will find a couple of stains and a patch on
the top starboard edge. Most people don't notice till I point it out.
New items within last 6 months:
* Full annual service and tune up performed June ‘06
* Starter
* Fuel Pump
* Shifter cable
* Steering cable
* Demon Carb- 10 hours
* Fuel lines
* Gas tank hose
* Bilge Pump
Includes new, dual axle aluminum trailer custom made to protect the V-Drive system – cost $3,200. Very minimum use- We live on the river so don’t typically need a trailer.
We are asking $17,500 for boat and trailer. MEMORIAL DAY WEEKEND SALE REDUCED TO $15,000.

Lots of pictures at this site: www.pbase.com/catdriver64/donzi_classic_18

[MOP]

Tommy how did I know you would hit this one? Looks like a very sweet deal and love no GD out drive.

[fastcat]

Anyone have any more interest, thoughts, ideas?
You can e-mail or PM me.

[Boatclinic]

I Think you are asking ( Not Enough) , We are restoring a 67 Formula Jr. and by the time were done they will have at least that much in it, then add the fact it's a Classic + new trailer. Just my opinion!! I would have started at 25,000.:confused: Someone is getting a Great Deal.:yes:
Don R.
www.Boatclinic.net

[Just Say N20]

Boatclinic, what you have into a boat, and what it is worth are two completely different things.

A good example is gcarter. He has his Minx for sale for $18,000 Firm, but by his own admission he has over $20K in parts and a 1,000 hours of his time in the boat.

While it would be a wonderful thing to sell a boat at a price that would reflect all the time/money invested in it, that rarely happens, even when it might make sense. gcarter's Minx is a model no longer made, but based on pricing of the new 18 and 22, if it were, it would probably fall into the high $40K/low $50K range. Few would argue that his boat is probably much better than new, because he has addressed/improved many things compared to a new Minx. It makes no sense to me that his boat hasn't sold; $18K for "better than new" when new would be almost $50K, but you can't even get new?

Suggesting to someone whose boat hasn't sold that their price is too low seems odd to me.

[Just Say N20]

BTW, Fastcat is selling a great boat. I have communicated with him that if the boat is still available in the spring, I would very much like to buy it. I have to get a few things done first.

[jl1962]

Really nice boat Fastcat!

Fastcat or anyone - please chime in but:

What are the advantages and disadvantages of V-drives over outdrives?
I can think of a few pros: less drag, no outdrive maintenance, less weight (possibly)
and at least one con: deeper draft possibly restricts ease of ramp launching and/or operation.

Does the boat handle differently w/ the V-drive? Better? Worse?
And what is the draft?

According to old ads - I see that 16's and 18's draw 1' drive up and 2' 3" drive down - what is the draft on v-drives?

If your boat is as clean as it looks, you should stand your ground on price. I truly believe the old boats are special and besides, you can't go back to 1968 and make more! You just need the right buyer.

JL

[fastcat]

Boatclinic- Believe me, I know the pain of putting money into cars and boats and not getting it back. I have done nut and bolt restorations on 2 British classic cars- not for the purpose of making money on a resale, but for the enjoyment of the journey.
I believe the '68 V-Drive I have is fairly priced and hopefully will go to someone that will appreciate the rarity of this specific model.

Just Say N20- Thanks for your understanding words. If it doesn't sell by Spring...I'll be looking for you.

[fastcat]

Really nice boat Fastcat!

Fastcat or anyone - please chime in but:

What are the advantages and disadvantages of V-drives over outdrives?
I can think of a few pros: less drag, no outdrive maintenance, less weight (possibly)
and at least one con: deeper draft possibly restricts ease of ramp launching and/or operation.

Does the boat handle differently w/ the V-drive? Better? Worse?
And what is the draft?

According to old ads - I see that 16's and 18's draw 1' drive up and 2' 3" drive down - what is the draft on v-drives?

If your boat is as clean as it looks, you should stand your ground on price. I truly believe the old boats are special and besides, you can't go back to 1968 and make more! You just need the right buyer.

JL
The draft is about 2 feet. We live on the water and have the boat on a lift so have not had to deal with launch ramps very often, however, have not had any problems launching at any boat ramp we have been to.

Our only other boat ownership has been with outboards so we can't speak to outdrive handling vs. V-Drive. The boat does handle well and turns on a dime.

Outdrive vs V-Drive operation? The V-drive has been trouble free so far.

[FlatRacer, aka BarrelBack]

Really nice boat Fastcat!

Fastcat or anyone - please chime in but:

What are the advantages and disadvantages of V-drives over outdrives?
I can think of a few pros: less drag, no outdrive maintenance, less weight (possibly)
and at least one con: deeper draft possibly restricts ease of ramp launching and/or operation.

Does the boat handle differently w/ the V-drive? Better? Worse?


I've had both (two '67 Barrelbacks nineteen serial numbers apart). Both had 200hp Ford 5.0L engines.

Top speed was the same! The stern drive gave me about 52 mph on GPS at 4600 rpm. The V-drive tops out at 52 mph as well (rpm unknown - the original tach reads WAY off). Mind you, this is in no way a scientific comparison. The engine in the stern drive was built by a machine shop in MI, and the engine in the V-drive is a PCM crate motor.
I thought the V-drive would ride a bit wetter or bow-heavy compared to the stern drive due to the lack of a trimable drive, but it doesn't. Surprisingly, the two boats handle pretty much the same. The biggest difference is in the steering torque. With the stern drive I had to really hang onto the steering wheel to keep it straight during hard acceleration of hight speed running. If I let go of the wheel, it would go into a hard left hand turn. With the V-drive there is no pull on the wheel. I can steer it with one finger at any speed.
Docking is a little harder with the V -drive, as the boat backs to starboard no matter what position the rudder is in. If you plan your approach so that you tie up to the dock on the starboard side of the boat, you can walk the boat sideways by using left rudder and shifting between forward and reverse. Docking on the port side is a challenge to be avoided if possible. Still it's easier than the race boat where you have to shut it off and scramble onto the deck paddle in hand.
Launching a V-drive is not a problem if the boat's on a properly fitted trailer.

Hope the info sheds some light.
Eric

[Scott Pearson]

Ok...my 2 cents. Most of you have seen my 1968 Barelback 18. Its near perfect. I would be shocked to get even close to $18,000 for it. These boats arent worth what some people think.

Look at it this way. Once my Benchseat Hornet is done I will most likely have $30-40,000 into it. I already have over $12,000 into it now. It will be nicer then my 18 and its one of the rarest of the Donzi's. But, I would be hard pressed to even get what I have into it. And I'm not including all my labor time.

I guess something is worth what someone will pay for it. But there is a limit I think on these boats, at least for now.

[Tall Cotton]

Absolutely georgeous! C'mon Lotto...!:crossfing

[FlatRacer, aka BarrelBack]

I guess something is worth what someone will pay for it. But there is a limit I think on these boats, at least for now.

It's hard to know where we stand with these boats as collector's items. The collector car markets is so fad and fashion driven. What makes a Corvette from any given year more desirable than any other Chevy from the same year? You could chalk it up to desirability, or supply and demand.
What is the driving the boom in muscle car prices? The 40 year old factor? Why isn't the same thing happening to boats from the same era?
The Auction houses are getting wild prices for anything from the '60s with a Hemi, while museum quality cars from earlier decades are languishing. The same thing is however, not happening in the collector boat market. Here, mahogany still rules. Chris Craft Cobras were 50 grand fifteen years ago. Today you need twice that to drag one home. Prices on Barrelbacks however, are creeping up slowly. Could it be that most people in the market for an 18" Donzi would even recognize the difference between a Barrelback and the more common design? Couple that with the fact that this hull has remained in production almost completely unchanged (save for drive packages and instrumentation) for 40 years, and you end up with not a lot of reason to seek out the early examples. Despite what we think of them, these Barrelbacks are not as widely desired as the the model as a whole. Let's face it, we're an small exclusive bunch, boasting about a very esoteric design feature.

Eric

[jl1962]

FlatRacer-

You and ScottP make some valid points and this discussion probably merits its own thread, but here are my .02!

You're a guitar player (and so am I), would you rather have a '57 Strat or a '97 Strat? 20 years ago there were no vintage guitars, just used ones. Now people know better.

Granted more people collect old cars and Donzis aren't bigger than the Beatles but collector markets are driven by nostalgia and we've got that. I don't believe our market is as mature as other collectibles - yet. Hang in there, some people GET IT, just don't expect to see 6 figures (well, maybe for the Strat)!

And bring an axe to the Dustoff.

JL

[FlatRacer, aka BarrelBack]

FlatRacer-

You're a guitar player (and so am I), would you rather have a '57 Strat or a '97 Strat? 20 years ago there were no vintage guitars, just used ones. Now people know better.
for the Strat)!

And bring an axe to the Dustoff.

JL

Yes I would rather have the '57. But, you're forgetting the reason the whole vintage guitar scene got started in thr first place. It wasn't because they changed the models every year like the car mfgs. It wasn't out of a sense of nostalgia for old stuff. It was because the bean counters at CBS and Norlin (Fender and Gibson respectively) were foisting crap on us in the name of lowered production costs. The quality, look, feel, and sound of the guitars made by these companies after they were bought up by larger corporations was abyssmal. That's why the old stuff became sought after. I suppose you could say the same thing about Harleys made under AMF.
I don't think however, you could say the same thing about Donzis. The build quality of these boats has remained pretty consistent throughout the history of the marque. Whatever changes Genth or Teleflex made were more on the marketing side. I don't think they meddled much in the constuction methods or materials in the name of cutting production costs. Certainly not to the degree that CBS and Norlin wreaked havoc on the Fender and Gibson products, if at all.
I just don't see the incentive for seeking out earlier examples of this boat other than pure aesthetics pertaining to a very insignificant and esoteric design feature. There isn't enough of a difference, I feel, between the few hundred Barrelbacks and the thousands of later 18s to warrant any significant premium for the rarer examples in the market. Those who seek out a Barrelback either just prefer the look, or they like being different (or they're elitist snobs like me. :wink: LOL!).

On another "note", I have just the perfect guitar to bring to a boat meet. Have you seen the Rainsong? All carbon fiber, not a stick of wood on it. Sounds absolutely fantastic, impervious to humidity. Hell, I can use it for a paddle should the need arise!

Eric

[FlatRacer, aka BarrelBack]

I wonder if this is an indicator of anything pertaining the vintage Donzi market:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=009&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=190058737426&rd=1

Eric

[fastcat]

I wonder if this is an indicator of anything pertaining the vintage Donzi market:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=009&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=190058737426&rd=1
Eric

My boat comes with a set of those...and in much better condition. :)

[Brian Becker]

Im starting work on a similar boat Did you add the trim tabs ? Mine never had any, wondering why and if I need them I see other V-drives without them also Thanks Brian

[FlatRacer, aka BarrelBack]

Brian: Mine doesn't have any trim tabs, and in my opinion it doesn't need them. But then, I'm not trying to wring optimum performance out of this boat either.

Eric

[fastcat]

Im starting work on a similar boat Did you add the trim tabs ? Mine never had any, wondering why and if I need them I see other V-drives without them also Thanks Brian

The boat had the trim tabs on it when we bought it so I cannot give you a before and after opinion. We do use them to help balance the boat for uneven port-starboard weight variances, and on in rough water.

[Brian Becker]

Sorry bout that How does it handle at speed? Stable or does it move around at all? I would prefer to keep mine as orginal as possible Mines a 2+3 By the way awesome boat its beautiful Thanks Brian

[fastcat]

The boat is very stable- never had an issue with feeling loose or squirmy.
Thanks for the nice comments...she really is a beautiful boat.

[OneGM3]

Hi Fastcat
Is the V-drive still available? If so I would like to send my brother over to see it, (from PV Bch)
thanks
OneGM3
It was a hard decision, but we have decided to sell our beautiful
boat. This is your chance to own a piece of Donzi history. The Barrel
Back V-Drive is very rare and they come available for sale only once in a
while; especially one that needs nothing, just a nice new home. We have
done a lot of work recently, so you don't have to.
The boat runs strong but we have never actually run it at full throttle so we don't know the top speed- We’ve had it to 48 but since we aren’t in to speed, (on the water anyway), we didn’t push it. It felt like it had plenty more to give.
Here are the details:
350 SBC- previous owner had it rebuilt 8 years ago then only put 25 hours on it, we have added about 30 hours.
Casale V-Drive
Bennet Trim Tabs
All gauges work- all are new except speedometer which is pretty accurate vs. GPS
Driver and passenger seats and rear seat cushion are in excellent
condition; no stains or tears. The back seat back cushion looks good but
upon close inspection you will find a couple of stains and a patch on
the top starboard edge. Most people don't notice till I point it out.
New items within last 6 months:
* Full annual service and tune up performed June ‘06
* Starter
* Fuel Pump
* Shifter cable
* Steering cable
* Demon Carb- 10 hours
* Fuel lines
* Gas tank hose
* Bilge Pump
Includes new, dual axle aluminum trailer custom made to protect the V-Drive system – cost $3,200. Very minimum use- We live on the river so don’t typically need a trailer.
We are asking $17,500 for boat and trailer.
Lots of pictures at this site: www.pbase.com/catdriver64/donzi_classic_18

[fastcat]

Yes, it is still available. PM me and we can set up a meeting.
Or email ghanley@bellsouth.net
Thanks.

[fastcat]

Still for sale. The weather should be getting nice for you northerners and time to start boating again.
Didn't someone around here win the lottery this winter????

[markdonzi]

in my experience the 18 V-drive is a much more stable boat to drive. There is no pull left or right while at high speed and it seems to land off waves in a more stable manner than the regular outdrive18. now you need to decide which you like better.
markdonzi

[fastcat]

Allright all you Classic lovers. The V-Drive boat has been reduced to $15,000 including the custom built trailer.
We had it out last weekend and it ran great!!
Go for it..

[fastcat]

Still for sale.

[Dregsz]

What was the last year the factory did V drives?

[fastcat]

I believe that '68 was the last year.

[wetspot]

still available?

[fastcat]

still available?

Yes, it is still available. You're close enough to come check it out.

[Rob'o]

Hey fastcat, The northerner has spoken :) I sent you an e-mail, I love your boat and I am very interested. Is the Donzi still for sale? I am new to the registry and have been looking for a classic 18 for some time, your boat is unbelivable, I love it! I am very perticular because everything I own looks like the day I bought it, to me your classic fits that description perfectly. My cell is in the e-mail if you want to talk on the phone. I am located in Michigan

Thanks

[fastcat]

Thanks for your e-mail. I responded, check it out.
I too am very particular about cars and boats....the house, that's a whole other thing.:eek!:
Call me anytime Wednesday if I don't call you first.

[fastcat]

Boat is Sold!!
Thank you for everyone's interest.
A donation will go to the Registry.