installation of full hyd steering [Archive]

blueliner

11-01-2006, 12:29 PM

undertaker

11-01-2006, 05:31 PM

A LOT!!!!!!:propeller :propeller :propeller No seriously CMI exhaust plus installation around $5000 - 5500; full hydraulic steering more than $5000 for Latham, Poodle or some others can help you out there. Sounds like some sweet upgrades keep us posted on your progress.

Undertaker:pimp:

Pismo

11-01-2006, 06:06 PM

I agree $10k ish.

blackhawk

11-01-2006, 06:35 PM

hey guys,
all of you that have done mods to your boats: what roughly should it cost to install a full hydraulic system and cmi exhaust upgrade?? i do not have the aptitude to do it myself, so how much is it going to cost me?????
thanks

I think you can get XS full hydraulic system for around $3500 and I have heard good things about the system. I would guess about $600-$700 for labor??? IMO I wouldn't spend the coin on the CMIs on a stock 496 but that's me. But if you wanted them I think you can get them from Trick for about $3200 and I'd guess $400 or so for labor???

LKSD

11-02-2006, 07:32 AM

I think you can get XS full hydraulic system for around $3500 and I have heard good things about the system. I would guess about $600-$700 for labor??? IMO I wouldn't spend the coin on the CMIs on a stock 496 but that's me. But if you wanted them I think you can get them from Trick for about $3200 and I'd guess $400 or so for labor???

BH,
Nothing against the Xs. I prefer the imco external steering. It is a lot of bang for the buck, but is a little more than the XS.. , The Latham systems are great too but $$$$$$.. As far as exhaust, The Cmi 496 header kit is not 3200, you are probably thinking of one of the cmi e tops without tail pipes.. The 496 stuff from cmi is in the 4k range before install / options..

Steve, Did you get the #'s on the steering & Exh that I emailed you a while back?? :) J / Lakeside

ITTLFLI

11-02-2006, 09:24 AM

I think you can get XS full hydraulic system for around $3500 and I have heard good things about the system. I would guess about $600-$700 for labor??? IMO I wouldn't spend the coin on the CMIs on a stock 496 but that's me. But if you wanted them I think you can get them from Trick for about $3200 and I'd guess $400 or so for labor???

I can't remember the exact cost of the XS system but it was far less expensive and has worked flawless for me in the 2 years I have had it!

We just put it on my dads boat that is sold to a fella in Charlotte!

XS is highly recommended! I can get the exact quote for you if you wish?

Rootsy

11-02-2006, 09:28 AM

I can't remember the exact cost of the XS system but it was far less expensive and has worked flawless for me in the 2 years I have had it!
We just put it on my dads boat that is sold to a fella in Charlotte!
XS is highly recommended! I can get the exact quote for you if you wish?

Had an XS cylinder on my 16... FAR cheaper than the rest and a GREAT rebuildable design.... of course... the rest i made myself ;)

p729lws

11-02-2006, 09:41 AM

I can't remember the exact cost of the XS system but it was far less expensive and has worked flawless for me in the 2 years I have had it!
We just put it on my dads boat that is sold to a fella in Charlotte!
XS is highly recommended! I can get the exact quote for you if you wish?

Are the XS systems available again? Lead times were pretty long this time last year. I do like my IMCO system.

Dan

ITTLFLI

11-02-2006, 10:12 AM

Are the XS systems available again? Lead times were pretty long this time last year. I do like my IMCO system.
Dan

It just depends on his demand. He is a one man show, which is good from a quality control aspect but he does get jammed up sometimes.

If a few folks are looking, we could get a group rate possibly?

ThunderMarineDave

11-02-2006, 10:56 AM

CMI headers for 496 are more involved than "normal" headers, as there are relocation kits for several items, and there is a fair amount of teardown to get access. My shop (ThunderMarine) charges about $3000 labor for twins, a single would be less than half of that (as there is more room to work...)

-David

ITTLFLI

11-02-2006, 11:18 AM

Another bonus about XS is he makes a backing plate which was needed on my 1994 and my dads 1986. At least in these vintage 22's the transom is only 1/2 inch thick on the outer 1/3 of transom. He has these plates in stock!

kjly63

11-02-2006, 11:30 AM

Any pics of the xs or others installed on a Volvo 270 drive. I was thinking about it for my 20 Cig. I thought of it alot after running 140 miles in 2 days and wishing I had it:( .

I've seen some external steering and don't care for how it looks.:confused:

Any pics?

Ken

blackhawk

11-02-2006, 12:12 PM

My bad on the exhaust. It was $3800 not $3200 and I didn't realize they were that involved in changing. I was thinking it would be a 3-4 hour job.

yeller

11-02-2006, 11:41 PM

If you're using a short ram and mounting inside of the tab rams, would you need a backing plate?

ITTLFLI

11-03-2006, 01:03 AM

If you're using a short ram and mounting inside of the tab rams, would you need a backing plate?

Yes, My 1994 and my dads 1986 is mounted "inside" the tabs, no plate "needed" but included!

I talked to Brian at XS, he is interested in an group rate!!

kjly63

11-04-2006, 08:29 AM

pics????????

ITTLFLI

11-04-2006, 08:45 AM

pics????????

I am on the road thru sunday night, I will post some pics monday.

BUIZILLA

11-04-2006, 08:45 AM

does XS do outboard stuff??

zimm17

11-05-2006, 11:09 PM

ITTLFLI

11-06-2006, 09:07 AM

Oooooh Ooooooh! Group buy. Just when I thought I'd keep my credit card clear...
I'd be interested if we can get a price too good to pass up on. Full XS system helm to stern. Doesn't XS now have the hardware where the hyd fittings go through the mounting plates so there's less holes to drill? Ittlfly has the separate hyd fittings going through his transom.

XS will do a group buy for you guys. I will get the numbers from him this week.

Yes he does have mounts where the hoses go thru so you have LESS holes. On my installation I got in a hurry and used what he had ready, so I do have more holes than you guys would. I will try to post pics tonight.

ITTLFLI

11-06-2006, 09:07 AM

does XS do outboard stuff??

Not in stock. But I will ask him.

kjly63

11-06-2006, 12:14 PM

Itilfly............I should have thought to look at your set-up when I was standing next to your boat last mo. in Cincinnati:boggled:

There is so much torque running wide-open without a trim tab or hydraulic steering..........my arms were beat by the time it came to pull the boat out and drive 670 miles back home.

What I really want to see is how it attaches to the Volvo outdrive......then sure; I'm up for a group order:propeller

Ken

ITTLFLI

11-06-2006, 06:27 PM

Here is a picture of the XS System installed on my 22.

NOTE!!Keep in mind that the latest design has the hoses going thru the hull at the bracket, so you would have less holes in your transom.

XS also makes a nice helm out of polished aluminum for those that are looking to go full hyd!

I will try to get some pics of the system he just installed on the 1986 22 later this week. These will also show the plates he made for the inside of the transom.

ITTLFLI

11-06-2006, 06:37 PM

Itilfly............I should have thought to look at your set-up when I was standing next to your boat last mo. in Cincinnati:boggled:
There is so much torque running wide-open without a trim tab or hydraulic steering..........my arms were beat by the time it came to pull the boat out and drive 670 miles back home.
What I really want to see is how it attaches to the Volvo outdrive......then sure; I'm up for a group order:propeller
Ken

LOL!

Yeah we did some driving that weekend!! I bet your arms were SORE!!

BigGrizzly

11-06-2006, 07:47 PM

ITTLFLI

11-06-2006, 07:55 PM

What I really want to see is how it attaches to the Volvo outdrive......then sure; I'm up for a group order:propeller
Ken

XS does not have a wingplate made for the Volvo.

However he did say..... that if someone would lend their boat to him for a week or 2 he would make the Volvo guys a special group price also!!

BigGrizzly

11-07-2006, 04:34 PM

Poodle has them. but then one guy making the whole thing sounds neet.

Mr X

11-07-2006, 05:43 PM

Here is a pic of my Latham twin ram system installed last Saturday.

BUIZILLA

11-07-2006, 05:48 PM

An X18 Diesel....

cool beans..

JH

Mr X

11-07-2006, 06:01 PM

Yup,
should be good for about 52 MPH.....but my cruise range will be around
470 miles!

BUIZILLA

11-07-2006, 06:14 PM

dual exhaust diesel huh....

twin turbo ??

:bonk:

Mr X

11-07-2006, 06:56 PM

Actually, twin Yanmar 3 cylinders, don't ya see the 2 props??

kjly63

11-07-2006, 07:19 PM

XS does not have a wingplate made for the Volvo.
However he did say..... that if someone would lend their boat to him for a week or 2 he would make the Volvo guys a special group price also!!

Sure............wait a minute:convertib where?

ken

ITTLFLI

11-07-2006, 09:02 PM

Sure............wait a minute:convertib where?
ken

North side of Cincinnati:)

Maybe someone closer could lend their boat even if they don't want/need a sysytem :crossfing

kjly63

11-08-2006, 06:55 AM

KJAY63, I have internal hydraulic with a power assist unit all by teriflex on my Corsican with a Volvo drive. the power assist is all electric no pump on the engine. you can steer it with one finger at WFO. Ask Scott Bolts how he liked it he spent two days driving it with no problems.

That setup sounds more like what I would want. I'm not sure how the external hyd. would mount to the Volvo(the merc installs look solid); and I like the clean look of how my boat is now.

Any problem fitting the internal steering system by the rear of the motor? I'm thinking the exhaust manifold would be the only issue?????

Ken

BigGrizzly

11-08-2006, 10:26 AM

The internal teleflex cylinder fits exaxtally where the cable use to be. The easies thing I have deone lately. Since it is Telefex uou know it is tested completely. We at Honda have testedit for two years befor it was on the market.Their hydraulic cylinders have been around since forever on all types boats including large cruisers. bleeding it was the hard part. However If you follow the instructions it works fine. DON'T ask, my brain had a moment that day. So if you get one follow the instructions to the letter and there will be no issues. Ask Scott Bolts how it works. Ted looks like the twin yanmars are set inline with an inner and outter drive shaft(LOL)!!!! Great looking wing plat for the drive

Mr X

11-08-2006, 11:40 AM

Only a true engineer would pick up on that Randy......Thanks.

yeller

11-08-2006, 12:29 PM

That's the nicest wing plate I've ever seen. Excellent idea Mr X. :yes:

BigGrizzly

11-08-2006, 06:40 PM

Ted you never did know how to do anything 1/2 a**, always top drawer with you or not at all. Nice rig Looking to see it live one day.

ITTLFLI

11-09-2006, 07:13 AM

here is the latest thru hull from XS.

kjly63

11-09-2006, 07:50 AM

I'm on the edge of my seat.............any Volvo external steering pics:propeller

Ken

Mr X

11-09-2006, 08:35 AM

Thanks Griz and Yeller. If you get to AOTH you will see it.
Who knows, with any luck my super secret skunk works project will be there too! :eek!:

p729lws

11-09-2006, 09:47 AM

here is the latest thru hull from XS.
That's a nice looking set up on the XS system and similar to the IMCO's.

zimm17

03-03-2007, 04:51 PM

What ever happened to the group buy? Anyone get a price. I'm looking to go XS full hyd this spring.

MDonziM

03-03-2007, 06:33 PM

The xs looks interesting. I was considering the zeiger full/ dual ram setup. (3,400 from trick marine)Anyone have first hand experience with them?

ITTLFLI

03-04-2007, 07:23 AM

What ever happened to the group buy? Anyone get a price. I'm looking to go XS full hyd this spring.

Give me a call. I will PM you my number.

CHACHI

03-04-2007, 09:19 AM

The xs looks interesting. I was considering the zeiger full/ dual ram setup. (3,400 from trick marine)Anyone have first hand experience with them?Sccording to Paul Everett at Zeiger, they are the OE supplier for Donzi on the 22C. I am also looking at the Zeiger sustem.
Ken

MDonziM

03-04-2007, 10:09 AM

Minxguy,
When I spoke to Trick about the Zeiger system they claimed to be the quality of Latham or Marine Machine at a lower cost. I think I will buy unless the XS is cheaper and available.

MDonziM

03-04-2007, 10:14 AM

Give me a call. I will PM you my number.

I spoke to you 2yrs ago right when you pulled your 22 off the mkt. In the market for full hyd, could I call you as well on the XS system info? Thanks. MM

LKSD

03-04-2007, 05:58 PM

IMO.. The Latham Is top notch, but very $$$$.. I personally like the Imco set ups they are put together well, they look good & are reasonably priced.. The Zieger & Xs are good systems as well, However we have been most pleased with & sell mainly the Imco & Latham set ups.. Again this is just My 2 cents on the topic.. ;) Jamie / Lakeside

gero1

03-04-2007, 09:43 PM

loan him a boat for a week or two???? now thats funny, wonder how long it would be before you got it back? if you have a $10 head you can wear a $10 helmet! go with lathum, imco or marine machine. i went with marine machine at the time they were the only one who would make a plate for a black hawk drive to keep the rams inside the trim tabs. that is a very very high x dimension on mr. x boat.

Pismo

03-05-2007, 05:40 AM

With Imco systems you have to drill and tap two holes in your outdrive. How lame is that. I like how the hoses go thru the mounting plate with IMCO tho. XS does that now too. Zeiger makes systems that need only 6 5/8" of clearance past the transom assembly which is great for us with those silly dual ram trim tabs that take up so much space. Other companies small clearance systems are "special order" and are much more money than their regular systems. The OEM setup on the Shelby at the Miami Show was a Zeiger.

FlyingDutchman76

03-05-2007, 08:58 AM

I am interested in the Group Purchase as well. The more buyers, the better negotiating power we will have.

Count me in.... :hyper:

LKSD

03-05-2007, 09:16 AM

If you are talking about the extra bolt on each side of the rear Bravo steering cap it adds stability to the cap & upper. The cap & upper would be less likely to flex with the extra reinforcments.. Shure it's nice not having to drill, but the extra reinforcment is nice too.. ;) Jamie

roadtrip se

03-05-2007, 09:42 AM

Latham makes backing plates.. So does IMCO :) :)
XS looks good, the delivery tales I have heard would scare me off.. Matter of fact, they did. Installed Latham on my 18.. Critter is next in line...

I know of at least two situations where this was an issue.

What good is a great price, if you can't get the stuff.

I may be getting involved in let's just call it an "intervention" on someone's behalf here in the next few weeks, because I am in the supplier's geographic area pretty often.

I am always baffled why someone would go cheap on a safety item, but that is just my opinion. Safety vests is the other one that comes to mind...

roadtrip se

03-05-2007, 10:01 AM

Zeiger makes systems that need only 6 5/8" of clearance past the transom assembly which is great for us with those silly dual ram trim tabs that take up so much space. Other companies small clearance systems are "special order" and are much more money than their regular systems.

My Latham system is plugged in between the two ram bennets and wasn't special order. No bubble-gumming done to make it work either. Four years and counting. I bet if someone asks here, there might be a good deal to made on a Latham system group purchase here too...

undertaker

03-05-2007, 02:42 PM

Ok I will ask.....HOW ABOUT A GROUP LATHAM BUY:eek!: :eek!: ....anyone...anyone...bueler, bueler:)

Undertaker:cool: :cool: :bonk: :propeller :pimp: :yes: :boat: :lookaroun

Pismo

03-05-2007, 03:56 PM

Yea, Latham will probably give you $1 off for a group order of 100 units. When I called them with my dimensions they quoted $7200 for a system with "special" short rams. Great stuff but run.

ITTLFLI

03-05-2007, 05:21 PM

I talked to Brian from XS. He is checking his inventory and supplies. He will get me a price late tomorrow. If we can get 5 Donzi buyers he will commit to a guaranteed delivery date! This will eliminate the 3rd party involved in the transaction and make the process smoother for us Donzi FREAKS!

I am willing to facilitate this just to make it go smooth. You will send the check directly to him and he would send the merchandise directly to you. Just to be clear...I would not make a penny from the deal.

Just an FYI.....my $.02....you might be able to find a good deal on some other systems. Keep in mind that the XS comes with a full wingplate, as well as others. This does not come cheap! Make sure you compare apple to apples. Some come with the cap that bolts in place of the cap in the back of the bravo upper housing. I would say neither is "weak" but the wingplate setup is clearly stronger in my opinion.

Bottom line is I think they are all good systems but some have better value. ;)

Byron
itllfli@fuse.net

BigGrizzly

03-05-2007, 05:29 PM

I love my IMCO, but than I love almost everything I still havr.

roadtrip se

03-05-2007, 06:50 PM

Yea, Latham will probably give you $1 off for a group order of 100 units. When I called them with my dimensions they quoted $7200 for a system with "special" short rams. Great stuff but run.

Who said anything about calling Latham, Pismo? UT knows what I am talking about.

And by the way, I did not spend $7200 for my stuff. I used "stock" 9-inch rams and the normal bravo wing plate. What did you specify, titanium aircraft quality?

Pismo

03-06-2007, 07:04 AM

Who said anything about calling Latham, Pismo? UT knows what I am talking about.
And by the way, I did not spend $7200 for my stuff. I used "stock" 9-inch rams and the normal bravo wing plate. What did you specify, titanium aircraft quality?

I wish I had asked for something extra, then I could understand the price...

LKSD

03-06-2007, 07:16 AM

Some food for thought. The middle man is not always more money.. Genrally the MFG sells at retail. Also many times the middle man can be more easily accessable to the public. Also usually the buy ins are fairly large to get any worth while discount.. ;)

Pismo you are not that far off on your earlier statment of saving a dollar on 100 units.. I am with you on that one.. I dont know what some mfgs think, half the time some of these places dont do anything for the dealers either.. :) Just my opinion.. Good luck to you guys.. :) Jamie

ITTLFLI

03-06-2007, 07:49 AM

Some food for thought. The middle man is not always more money.. Genrally the MFG sells at retail. Also many times the middle man can be more easily accessable to the public. Also usually the buy ins are fairly large to get any worth while discount.. ;)

Jaime,

I apologize if you took that middle man comment personally.

I was more specifically refering to a particular middle man that was involved with XS.

LKSD

03-06-2007, 07:52 AM

No problem. No offense taken. I do appreciate the clarification. I don't do much of XS systems anyway. My 2 main ones are IMCO and Latham. Jay:pimp:

Cuda

03-06-2007, 08:09 AM

I was quoted about $3500 from WPM on their full hydraulic system.

BigGrizzly

03-06-2007, 09:04 AM

Most companies try to protect the middle man, distributor etc. so they quote SRP. This way they avoid the extra time it takes to educate the public. In fact some companies will not sell to the public or dealers, you must go through their distributor / dealer network and quote high prices.

ITTLFLI

03-06-2007, 07:56 PM

I talked with Brian from XS tonight. He said he will commit to a 5 systems delivered 5 weeks from this weekend. He has 3 that will be ready in 2 weeks.

If you are interested email or call me for pricing.

Byron
itllfli@fuse.net
513-470-8480

zimm17

03-07-2007, 06:00 AM

I plan on getting one of those XS systems. He includes 1" thick backplates to reinforce the transom where the rams mount.

Brian at XS answers emails- I had to do some serious internet searching to find his email address though. I'll let you all know when I order up the system- hopefully by the end of this week.

ITTLFLI

03-07-2007, 07:56 AM

Err, no offense, but based on folks prior experiences, why doesnt he call us when he has 5 systems ready to go... Hell, I can go to Latham and pull the parts off the shelf in a week...

Did you get my PM on a different subject?

Latham is a good system....I 'd go pull it off the shelf also if i couldn't wait.

zimm17

03-07-2007, 04:41 PM

Did you get my PM on a different subject?
Latham is a good system....I 'd go pull it off the shelf also if i couldn't wait.

...and I could afford it....

zimm17

03-13-2007, 04:44 PM

oldandtired

03-13-2007, 05:43 PM

It should come with some kind of template. In any event, I found that a laser level is incredibly useful for laying out the transom. Everything doesn't have to be perfectly level, you are just using the laser for some measurments on the transom. Once you shoot your level line at the height you want on the transom, measure reference points on the hull to the line to make sure that everything is square. Change air pressure on the trailer tires to adjust transom height side to side. That's basically how I did mine and I think that it came out great.

Rene

PS. To clarify that everything doesn't have to be perfectly level means that it doesn't matter if the laser line is out of level. It will definitely be perfectly straight (assuming a flat transom). You are going to adjust your tire pressures to ensure that it is perfectly level on your transom.

p729lws

03-13-2007, 06:54 PM

XS steering is on order! Should ship on the 19th. Now the million dollar question is how to measure up where to mount the rams on the transom? Anyone have good measurements I can start with? Then how do I refine it from there?

Like Oldandtired mentioned, I think the length of the rams is more or less going to dictate where the connection to the transom is going to be. You probably need to coordinate that with XS before they get too far with your order to make sure you're not going to have interference with your tabs, etc. I think most manufacturers offer different lenght rams.

Dan

David Hartmann

04-16-2007, 11:45 PM

zimm17

04-17-2007, 05:25 AM

So this may be craxy coming from someone that is only a few weeks away from buying a steering system.
but what is XS or who are they? does anyone have a website or any source of information from them.
Davidh@deckfastener.com

Brian's pretty much a one-man show. Doesn't take credit cards, that's how small his business is. I picture a guy in a barn with a machine shop...

Anyway, like I said, he's a little slow on getting you everything, but the quality is top notch, the system fits great so far, and you can't beat the price. He's even making me an adaptor plate to cover the hole from my teleflex steering for free.

His email is xspm02@hotmail.com but don't expect much of a reply. He likes to do business on the phone.

zimm17

04-17-2007, 05:27 AM

Like Oldandtired mentioned, I think the length of the rams is more or less going to dictate where the connection to the transom is going to be. You probably need to coordinate that with XS before they get too far with your order to make sure you're not going to have interference with your tabs, etc. I think most manufacturers offer different lenght rams.
Dan

To check for room, the plates mount 9 1/8" from the outer edge of the bravo gimbal to the inner edge of the backing plate for the rams. I double checked the throw of the rams before drilling, but the XS instructions were right on.

gcarter

04-22-2007, 06:43 PM

Can anyone post a schematic of the hydraulics of any of these systems?
Are any of them power assisted?

zimm17

04-22-2007, 07:09 PM

They are all power assisted.

I don't have an electronic schematic. Basically you have a high pressure line from your engine driven pump to a filter, to the helm. Then you have a high pressure left and right line from the helm to the rams. Then there's a return line from the helm to the low pressure line on the pump. Finally, a fluid tank has a line to a bolt on cap on the pump to increase capacity.

The left and right pressure lines go to opposite sides of the pistons in the rams- so turning left pushes on both rams from the opposite sides. One "pushes" and one "pulls".

gcarter

04-22-2007, 08:01 PM

I suspected there was a piloted valve located at the transom that was actuated by a low pressure signal from the helm. I thought the piloted valve routed the high pressure fluid to the steering cylinders. This is why I was hoping someone could post a hydraulic schematic.
You live and learn.