PDA

View Full Version : Steel Fuel tank....



Goochman
10-12-2006, 10:42 PM
Well I read about Donzi using steel fuel tanks surrounded by foam back in the sixtys, and that they will eventually rust and fail, and sure enough I check my sixty something 21 GT and there it is, foam and all! I don't wanna be blasting along and then have the bilge fill with 98 octane ignited by a spark ya know? Anybody ever change one out to aluminum? Whats involved? Can the engine be pulled and the tank taken out that way or does the deck have to be removed? What are my options. As usual, thanks! :confused:

gcarter
10-13-2006, 03:58 AM
There's only one way.
Take the deck off.
Do it right, it's really easy.
BTW, there's nothing wrong w/foam if the replacement tank is properly coated.
Foam is the BEST support....Period.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=36703&page=1&pp=15

Goochman
10-13-2006, 09:48 AM
There's only one way.
Take the deck off.
Do it right, it's really easy.
BTW, there's nothing wrong w/foam if the replacement tank is properly coated.
Foam is the BEST support....Period.
http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=36703&page=1&pp=15
Thanks, that seems to be the only way. I really don't have the facilities to undertake that type of project as you did. Has anyone ever paid someone to do that work and what was the cost?

gcarter
10-13-2006, 08:01 PM
Why don't you shop around for a rental unit? You might find something you can use for a month or two. You might be surprised.
Cuda just had someone do Debbie' 22.

Tony
10-13-2006, 10:04 PM
There's another discussion, linked here (http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=46952), that addresses this topic. It also has links to three seperate deck-off projects, all very well done, if I don't say so myself!

To have it done would likely cost anywhere between $4k and $8k (just my wild guess), but that would not include any of the extra stuff you can easily renovate while the deck is off.


:beer:

Goochman
10-19-2006, 01:03 AM
There's another discussion, linked here (http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=46952), that addresses this topic. It also has links to three seperate deck-off projects, all very well done, if I don't say so myself!

To have it done would likely cost anywhere between $4k and $8k (just my wild guess), but that would not include any of the extra stuff you can easily renovate while the deck is off.


:beer:

Yeah, Jamie at Lakeside quoted me in the 5K range to replace the fuel tank and reinforce soft spots in the deck plus spray the bilge while the top is off. Not a bad deal for the experience level there. Will keep yoi posted!

LKSD
10-19-2006, 09:16 AM
:yes:
Hmm, let me think about this.. 1 k for tank (VERY VERY VERY generous).. 50 bucks for a gallon of bilgecote.. Lets say, 500 bucks for materials, wire ties etc.. We are up to 1550 in parts...
Rent a barn/warehouse.. Do it yourself.. Pocket the savings... Buy gas :) :)

Oh here we go again.. Lets just take a friendly closer look at this.. I am not trying to offend anyone, I am just trying to help.. :D

( rent a barn or a warehouse per month for x amount of months, plus buy tools if you dont have them, dont forget the hoists for lifting.. Now how many $$K are you up to & the work & time still has to be spent on doing the project.)

Lets see.. I Dont know about any of you, but this is my liveley hood... Who runs a business at cost, or do they do it for a profit & their expertise??

I feel my aproximate estimate (not quote) for 5k is fair. It is a good amount of work to be replacing a tank, winterizing, storing a boat for the off season, cleaning, inspecting & repainting the bilge & reinforcing the deck... But hey who the heck am I, I guess someone else must have been on the phone when I was having my discussion to know all of the little details.. It's really no ones business as to what someone is or will pay me for my services.. I already told the guy that the parts were not the expensive part, its the LABOR thats the bigger part. To be honest it was a private conversation & none of anyone else's business.. THIS is how I make my living, It is up to him if he feels my expertise & services are of value to him... Its his decision & money. I wouldnt like to be told what to spend my money on or how to spend it.. Not all people can do this kind of work on their boat, or maybe he's not comfortable with it or possibly he doesnt have the time. I personally do very little of my vehicle service (car & truck) myself anymore. I basically change the oil & keep them clean & tuned.. Anything beyond that is cheaper & faster for me to let the dealer do... It's not that I am not capable. I am more than capable & I have the equipment. I dont have the time with the amount of work that my shop has. Therefore it cost me more money & time to do it myself.. Therfore I dont cheap out & insult the dealer, I pay them for their services & get to drive my vehicles without problems.. :)

One last thing.. In case none of you here know it. I am in the marine business & yes I actually charge to do work.. I am not a charity, I dont work for free, I do have bills to pay too.. So I admit it I actually make money off of other peoples needs... Now the world can rest, I have spoken the unthinkable.. :lightning :lightning :bonk:

No wonder matty & others have stopped helping & left the site.. :bonk: :yes: I dont understand why some people will just publically insult people in a friendly manner with thier poorly thought out opinions and cheapness on this site. If you have a distaste for a price, person or a project private email may be a better way to express your opinion. So as others wont get upset & have things blown out of proportion..

So game on, Everyone have fun.. Let the games proceede.. :boat:

Those who may need me and understand and are not sickened that I make my living by dealing with & working on boats feel free to call me or email me.. Anyone else not understanding that please dont bother.. :)

Caio...... Jamie / Lakeside

Marlin275
10-19-2006, 10:15 AM
I know this is a very controversial subject !!!
I had the same problem and ran into too many different opinions.
I called Donzi Marine and asked them what was the best way to replace a gas tank.
They told me to cut the liner and pull it out.
My marina agreed when I presented them with all my info and photos of some the deck off projects from this site.
The price with a new tank was about $2500.
Maybe I lucked out because they had a good glass guy, but you can't tell the liner was cut.
They matched my gell coat and NOONE has ever noticed the work.
Ok for those that have to fix deck and other issues, fine pull the deck off,
but for me this worked out great!

Rootsy
10-19-2006, 10:31 AM
5K @ $60.00 (+) / hr + materials (at full retail + shipping + handling + mark-up) probably isn't far off to have it done professionally... plus i ASSUME that includes a warranty on all parts and workmanship.... i do stuff on the side... i need to make a living too and have "some" overhead... i understand your point...

but take a breather chief... i dont believe the poodle was attempting to insult you.... just like me... he has no issue tackling such projects (and then some) and encouraging others to do so if they have the means... as true donzi lovers and afficianados, we would lend a free or cheap hand to someone close to us in such a situation (i do it all of the time).. and that is what MADE this place we call donzi.net great.... just seems to be less and less selflessness these days...

i'll lend a hand whenever possible... but i won't do it FOR you for nothing...
and as a person making your living doing this work... i wouldn't expect you to do it for free either....

JR

kjly63
10-19-2006, 11:09 AM
:boggled: Wow, this is a great post to get someone off the site that just joined last month. I remember when people offered advice and maybe their time if someone was interested in tackling a project like this.

Jamie is entitled to make a living if someone wants to go that route and have someone do it. Not everyone is handy, or has a garage, or better yet---has the time.:shades:

I own my own bussiness and sometimes charge 300 %. I sleep very well at nt. also.

Ken

gcarter
10-19-2006, 11:50 AM
Jamie, you serve an irreplacable role for the folks that don't have the time or facilities to do their own work. I have six vehicles and I don't do ANY work on them.
But there's a tremendous amount of satisfaction in accomplishing a task like this. It's a fairly low tech process, and can give you some real bragging rights.

Tony
10-19-2006, 12:20 PM
Yes, Frank, I did wonder what this job would cost hired out. Between my brother and I we have approximately 100 hours of labor invested, plus about $750 in materials.
At a conservative shop rate of $50/hr. a tank replacement might cost $5k to $6k...but would not include the incidentals that I took care of while the deck was off.
Another evening or three to re-connect the engine and I will be back on the water. Wooooo-hoooo!

The above quote was taken from my "Day 4/5" thread, linked above. So the $5k estimate is very accurate in my opinion. I did it myself because I had the time and, with a lot of help from this site, felt I could tackle the project.

Last summer I spent about about 60 hours wet-sanding the hullsides of my 22. $200 for the sander, $100 for discs, and $40 or so for polish was all the materials cost. In my situation I have the time in the summer, so the labor was something I was able to do.

Pull my engine and tear it down? No way. I'm hiring that out because I do not have the knowledge to do it. Bottom line is...to each his own.


:beer:

LKSD
10-19-2006, 12:31 PM
Thanks guys.. I know some of you get this & understand me fully.. To the person that had the tank done or had an estimate for 2500 for a tank from donzi thats one thing to lift a deck on a classic & swap tanks.. (by the way let me clarify he does not have an 18 classic)... If it was simply replacing a deck in say an 18 classic I would think 2-3k (parts & labor)is about average for that alone.. Also as mentioned earlier it wasn't a 5k estimate for just replacing a tank. It was for storage, winterizing & recoating & cleaning the bilge & stiffening the underside of the deck as well.. That is a lot more work, time & materials... I have no issues or qualms about someone saving an honest dollar that can do the work themselves properly & safley.. If that is not the case that is why there are pro's that are there.. Enter me & other reputable shops.. There is a good reason some things are expensive, it is also a warning if it sounds to good to be true it probably is.When something is expensive there is probably a valid reason behind it, whether it be labor, materials or other.. It all adds up.. I just get very irritated anymore at people who think cheaper or saving a dollar up front is ALWAYS better.. Thats just not necessarily the case..

To George I do agree that if you can do it yourself safely & properly there is peronal satisfaction in doing that if you have the time & the means.

My place here has been to make new friends & add new clients to my customer base.. I never made that a secret, but somethings that I have been involved in here & some things I have seen in other posts that I have not even been involved in make me less interested in lending advice, help or "other" at times.. Like mentioned before, I believe they are some of the same reasons some others have left the board.. Again thanks to those who are understanding & appreciative of me & the others that try to properly help with more than just arm chair quarterbacking it.. As far as anything other than that I will just say that if you dont have anything nice to say dont say anything at all.. Thats my position.. Jamie

PS: Currently my labor rate is $79.95 as are other marinas in my local area--unless they are not legit and work out of their backyard. I should be even more. Places about 1hr from me that I am friends with are 90-120.

ALLAN BROWN
10-19-2006, 12:57 PM
Well I read about Donzi using steel fuel tanks surrounded by foam back in the sixtys, and that they will eventually rust and fail, and sure enough I check my sixty something 21 GT and there it is, foam and all! I don't wanna be blasting along and then have the bilge fill with 98 octane ignited by a spark ya know? Anybody ever change one out to aluminum? Whats involved? Can the engine be pulled and the tank taken out that way or does the deck have to be removed? What are my options. As usual, thanks! :confused:The only legal tank in the middle sixties was terne plate, for Coast Guard approval. Terne plate is lead coated steel. Don't blame us, blame the frickin' CG!

maddad
10-19-2006, 02:15 PM
Hi jw, Ive read through this thread way to many times now, and can't seem to spot the "not nice" thing that was said. Am I as dense as my wife says? Was something deleted?
All I noticed was someone asked a question and some people responded saying have it done, others said do it youself. Some round prices were talked about, yours seemed to be a good deal.
Did I miss something?

LKSD
10-19-2006, 03:03 PM
Hi jw, Ive read through this thread way to many times now, and can't seem to spot the "not nice" thing that was said. Am I as dense as my wife says? Was something deleted?
All I noticed was someone asked a question and some people responded saying have it done, others said do it youself. Some round prices were talked about, yours seemed to be a good deal.
Did I miss something?

You have gotten part of the obvious picture, the other part you need to read in on a bit more closely.. Also read the post before & after this post (quoted below) in this thread.. The other posts after my first one sort of follow me..


Hmm, let me think about this.. 1 k for tank (VERY VERY VERY generous).. 50 bucks for a gallon of bilgecote.. Lets say, 500 bucks for materials, wire ties etc.. We are up to 1550 in parts... Rent a barn/warehouse.. Do it yourself.. Pocket the savings... Buy gas

Ps.. If you still dont get it it's ok.. Iv'e been married a while too.. All wives say that! :D Dont take it personally I have some blank moments myself.. (sometimes it's selective when you are married) :) J

penbroke
10-19-2006, 05:03 PM
:boggled: Wow, this is a great post to get someone off the site that just joined last month.

Goochman: Don't take all this too hard. This always happens when fuel tank replacement is the topic. There are a couple other topics that will get the same results. This is how we learn from each other. It ain't always pretty but somehow it seems to work in the end,,, sort of,,, well,,, just do it my way and you will be fine. :wink: :wink: :wink:


Frank :lookaroun
What was the question again??:boggled:

BigGrizzly
10-19-2006, 06:18 PM
JW no one is trying to under cut you or embarras you. Remember this quote "I though you were just a warrenty guy for Honda". Well I have been on this board since 1998 or there abouts. And warranty is only one of the thing I did another write all the power equipment and Honda Marine flat-rate manuals. Anyone who had a tech problem has had my imput free. I just am tryng to save a guy MONEY by telling him how to do it himself. That is what this board was founded on. People like Forrest, Geoo, CDMA(the kid), Mattyboy, Formula JR, and others too many to discuss now. I don't say take to Grimes Auto Machine to get it done right. I don't make a living at this any more. However we do sell exhaust systems and I don't say this because I feel they need to deal locally or the best bang for the buck, Stainless Marine, who BTW makes the stuff that others sell! I am Ga largest prop stocking dealer. I am Big Grizzly proformance propellers and am on the internet with a poor web page at the moment biggrizzlyperformance.com. However Don't take this personally, but if you want to know about me shoot me an E-mail. don't blast me on the board. Your feelings were hurt so were mine. I was building hot rod engines before you were born. If a higher up wants to delete this go ahead, some people are too sensitive. one thing I do agree the price for the job and who he got it from probably should not have been posted.

Ed Donnelly
10-19-2006, 08:58 PM
JW; I think you are missing a very big point here. This site was made for Donzi owners and lovers to help one another.
I installed my own K-planes before asking for others opinions WHOOPS.
After I posted pics I was told of the errors of my ways(Thanks Big Grizz)
I was not being put down,just, shown where I went wrong.
It was my option to pay to have it done.. If I had of asked beforehand, it would have been a perfect job.
the site is for knowledge and help.
Madpoodle bought a Criterion with a missing front hatch, he asked me to take some pics of my hatch for him.. My time is worth money,so, should I have charged him for my time...I THINK NOT.. He hand delivered a very valuable item from Florida to 1,ooo islands for me ,then it was shipped by another member to Toronto. Cost ZERO.. People helping people..
If a member can't do it himself then by all means, that is what the advertisers are here for.............Ed

LKSD
10-19-2006, 09:16 PM
Ok guys.. Point taken..

Grizzly, I too remember about the Honda thing.. Griz, you & I are cool in my book & we have since then had some cool emails between us on similar interests that we share..

Poodle, I apologize for being a bit rash. I evidentally mmust have misunderstood your post.. I honestly thought that I was casually being bashed on my price regarding this subject. Therefore I thought I needed to defend myself on it.. I obviously took your comment to much to heart & interpreted it in the wrong way. If thats not how you meant it, I will take your word on it at face value.. So we are cool.. Next time I feel I may misunderstand you on something that sits funny with me I WILL call you or PM you first (to make sure I dont misunderstand you).. I dont mind spendin a quarter to call ya, or shooting you an email.. Im definitley not here to make enemies..

In my defense, Both of you do Im' sure remember a supercharger post a while back where I was inappropriatley personally attacked before.. I wasn't even wrong, it was that someone else just had a like for doing the same thinig a different way & they jumped down my throat.. That still to a point has stayed with me causing me to be a bit touchy about some of this stuff causing me to look at some posts in a that could be taken more than one way a bit negatively.. ( I will try to chill more :yes: ).. I think you can understand where I am coming from with that sentiment & sypmathize with me to a point (even if I misread & mistook your post)..

I admit I get wrapped a bit tight at times.. Iv'e been very busy & not in the best of health this year.. (18hrs of work a day for the last 2 years & a stay in the ccu's cardiac unit earlier this year to try to slow me down :( ).. The hospital stay put some fear of god into me to take it a bit easier & digest some things a bit better, but some of this change takes time..

Guys no hard feelings, sorry for what I misunderstood here. Hopefully though you at least understood why I mistook that post earlier in this thread.. :wink: :cool: :) Jamie

BigGrizzly
10-20-2006, 03:07 AM
ED the main web is www.biggrizzlyperformance.com or www.biggrizzlyprops.com both go to the same place. No harm no foul, just remember where this board is comming from and who it is for, DONZI boat owners that want and need help from experience. As most of the old Donzi board knows I had a heart valve replaced back in 99,. What i can tell you is "Step back take three deep breths and than God your still alive. I use to live to work. Honda was my life for 24 years (Donzi and kids my recreation). I never missed a day of work unless it was unavoidable. As I am sure your wife has told you, "it isn worth it".

Rootsy
10-22-2006, 06:30 PM
The perfect cure for any old donzi's steel fuel tank :D

btw, this december 29, 1966 built Fabco 16 Donzi tank was sooooo rotten beneath the foam.... that after 57 rounds the side had holes in it where chunks of rust fell out and the bottom V seam split because it was so thin... this tank was fabbed from Terne btw, as stated on the Fabco tag...

sweet 16 1966
10-24-2006, 05:17 PM
I may be old fashioned but I still love happy endings!!! Still believe the good guys always win!
Rootsy, my Fabco was a leaking when replaced the first time in 1985. I said my blessings!! Replaced the second one in 2004.

f_inscreenname
10-26-2006, 11:51 AM
Sometimes I do not know how lucky I am. To replace a gas tank in mine takes removing 8 screws, a deck cover and about a half hour. Replaced the original last year with a plastic one. Will never have to do it again.

Carl C
10-26-2006, 12:40 PM
Some folks here do take the DIY view too seriously. My boat was damaged in a traffic accident. The parts alone will cost between $4,000 and $8,000 depending on who you talk to. In discussing the incident here several members told me to fix it myself even though I have insurance to cover it.:confused: