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View Full Version : Orion Marine has had my boat for 2 1/2 weeks now!!!



Carl C
09-21-2006, 02:00 PM
This has been defended by dealers here but I still can't understand the crappy service that marinas provide. In two and a half weeks all they've found time to do is take off my drive and take it apart and now they say that my boat has been moved to a storage facility. This is piss poor customer service and if they didn't all do it then none would be able to get away with it. I worked as a dealership mechanic for many years and we never kept a customer's car for two weeks. This boat spent one night outside prior to this! Yeah I'm plenty hot right now. For you who don't know, my boat was rearended at a stoplight enroute to the lake.:mad:

Rootsy
09-21-2006, 02:04 PM
you sure it's the marina or is it the insurance company that is to blame?

Carl C
09-21-2006, 02:44 PM
you sure it's the marina or is it the insurance company that is to blame?In all fairness it has been both. They said that the agent was supposed to OK the work today. We'll see how long it takes after they get final approval. I really hope it isn't returned with the cockpit mildewed or any damage to the finish or I don't know if I'll even want it back. We had porters to wash customer's cars after major repairs but I'll bet this boat gets returned dirty. I should have just brought the boat home and ordered an Imco shorty and new tilt rams from HM and had the prop repaired since I may be stuck with a $1,000 deductible anyway. I'm not too concerned about the $$ as this kept my premium down. I just want the boat back.:(

wrussellw
09-21-2006, 07:27 PM
Katrina dropped a tree on my wifes Expedition August 29th, 2005. Should have been totaled. $26,000 in repairs and 13 months later the car still leaks, you name it. Double whammy car only had 14,000 miles on it, but because of the amount of repairs, its been flagged by carfax and basically is unsellable.
Boat yards are full of boats that customers said fix it and then insurance companies said we arent paying. Most of these guys are small business' and dont have the cash flow to front projects.
Carl's right though, I haven't had to wash the car it is always returned clean:)
Anybody want to buy an one owner, low miles......:eek!:

gpapich
09-21-2006, 07:57 PM
Guys,

Thanks for the word on dealerships and marinas. I've had similar happen to me as well as my former wife.

My project for the winter was going to be to remove the drivetrain and redo all the seals, replace the raw water pump, and all the other things that leak or otherwise look funky.

I hate having to cringe when my bilge pump kicks on after driving for an hour and I leave a film on the water from the oil in the bilge from my leaky front seal.

I figure if I get an engine hoist and some manuals, this shouldn't be too hard. It's just the money thing.

I'd hate to drop hard-earned cash on someone who's going to mistreat the boat and me.

Take care and thanks for the words of warning.

Carl C
09-21-2006, 08:29 PM
In all fairness I need to give them another week and I hope this won't turn into a nightmare. There are reputable dealers and some of them post here and I hope they don't take this personally. I had to go with a local Crownline dealer. I'd like to see the mechanics face when he test drives my boat! The 22C is a trip the first time out.

Morgan's Cloud
09-22-2006, 06:59 AM
Sorry for that Carl :biggrin.:
Could'nt resist it ....
But I can easilly top that .
The Magnum was whacked on Sep 5th 2003 while hauled out for hurricane Fabian. Something travelling at about 130mph broadsided it.
Covered by insurance. $20,000 damage .(That's 37 months ago ! !)
It is still nowhere near done !
And to think that 3 days before the storm I finally got ALL the bugs ironed out .
It has however afforded me unlimited time to continue the resto on the St T.
Don't underestimate though , how badly I need a boat fix :tongue:
Steve

Carl C
09-22-2006, 07:53 AM
Well these stories haven't been very encouraging. How does this happen?????????:confused: Most of my damage was limited to the lower drive housing, prop, and trim rams and some light gel coat damage to the bow. If this turns into a cluster*#@+ I will pull the boat out of there and repair it myself. Then I will post the fiasco on every boating site I can. I bought the boat new. About $55,000 with tax and I intended for it to always be stored indoors. Now it's sitting outside in all this rainy fall weather. Soon there will be leaves stuck all over it. I may go slip a couple anti-mildew pouches into the cockpit; more rain is coming.:( I will be patient for another week and then things will get ugly if there is no progress.:mad:

Rootsy
09-22-2006, 08:13 AM
carl, be patient.... i was a marine mechanic for about 4 years during my early college time... never was a boat left undone intentionally.... we dealt with a lot of insurance claims for sterndrive damage due to bags and underwater obstacles and what not... things take time... plus no one is going to touch the boat if they aren't going to get paid for it... so taht means a written green light from the insurance company... plus they have other customers and they have those boats scheduled and it isn't fair to just drop those boats and work on yours... not to mention it is late september coming into october and there are a WHOLE lot of boats that need to be put to bed for the winter and it is a very busy time of year... i used to put in solid 12 - 14 hour days, 6 - 7 days a week from september 1 to Nov 1... sunrise to sunset basically... so work with them and don't go hollaring or tossing an attitude... you catch more flies with honey than viniger...

Carl C
09-22-2006, 08:32 AM
No attitude yet, Jamie. I'm mainly just bummed out. They should get the insurance OK by today. If I could r&r and rebuild an automatic transmission in one day then why shouldn't this also be a one day job? I will make calls today to make sure they get the go ahead and then I'll be patient for a while but I won't let the boat sit in a storage lot for much longer. I already made some calls on an Imco shorty but they cost a little more then I thought.

Rootsy
09-22-2006, 08:33 AM
No attitude yet, Jamie. I'm mainly just bummed out. They should get the insurance OK by today. If I could r&r and rebuild an automatic transmission in one day then why shouldn't this also be a one day job? I will make calls today to make sure they get the go ahead and then I'll be patient for a while but I won't let the boat sit in a storage lot for much longer. I already made some calls on an Imco shorty but they cost a little more then I thought.

you do know that the guts from your bravo will go right inside the imco case... so if your propshaft is straight all you need is the housing and vertical shaft... and a bunch of special tools to put it all together :)

Carl C
09-22-2006, 08:43 AM
you do know that the guts from your bravo will go right inside the imco case... so if your propshaft is straight all you need is the housing and vertical shaft... and a bunch of special tools to put it all together :) No I didn't know that and that's very interesting. The prop shaft did not appear to be bent but I didn't put a dial indicator on it either. That's an interesting option, thanks. I've rebuilt outboard gearcases and imagine that this would be similar so I may already have most of the tools.

p729lws
09-23-2006, 02:20 PM
I already made some calls on an Imco shorty but they cost a little more then I thought.

Carl,
PM ITTLFLI. He set me up with a guy that got me a deal on a shorty and I'm sure could set you up with a case.
Later,
Dan

need for speed
09-23-2006, 04:19 PM
that sucks... my 22 never sleeps out side... When she get's serviced my Merc guy comes to my house :) I feel the pain...if its just the drive bring the thing home- when they say the drive is ready stop by and have them put it on!

Carl C
09-23-2006, 05:33 PM
Thanks Dan but I think I'm just gonna get it fixed by the insurance and maybe redo the drive in the future. The marina says that Progressive and BoatUS are the two worst insurance companies when it comes to claims. And I thought they were the best. Progressive wants them to weld my lower gear case which is cracked and bent at the cavitation plate. Hopefully the ins agent will OK the proper repairs by Monday and then the marina says the job should be done within a week. If this drags out I will bring the boat home.:crossfing

Sofa King
09-24-2006, 06:04 PM
Sorry Carl that really sux. Betchya can't wait to get it back all fixed up and purdy like. I love my 22 :yes:

Carl C
09-24-2006, 06:19 PM
Would welding the cracked cavitation plate be acceptable? They would grind a V in it and weld it and grind it flush. I better make sure they have a NEW propeller figured in. Yeah it sux to be me right now.:(

MOP
09-24-2006, 07:33 PM
Did they dial indicate the prop shaft and check the bearing carrier for cracks it don't take a lot to bend a prop shaft.

Phil

Carl C
09-24-2006, 08:19 PM
Did they dial indicate the prop shaft and check the bearing carrier for cracks it don't take a lot to bend a prop shaft.

Phil I don't know, but they said they would check it. I think it should be replaced anyway because of the impact it took. I'll make phone calls tomorrow. Both trim rams were bent.

LKSD
09-25-2006, 09:03 AM
carl, be patient.... i was a marine mechanic for about 4 years during my early college time... never was a boat left undone intentionally.... we dealt with a lot of insurance claims for sterndrive damage due to bags and underwater obstacles and what not... things take time... plus no one is going to touch the boat if they aren't going to get paid for it... so t:wink: aht means a written green light from the insurance company... plus they have other customers and they have those boats scheduled and it isn't fair to just drop those boats and work on yours... not to mention it is late september coming into october and there are a WHOLE lot of boats that need to be put to bed for the winter and it is a very busy time of year... i used to put in solid 12 - 14 hour days, 6 - 7 days a week from september 1 to Nov 1... sunrise to sunset basically... so work with them and don't go hollaring or tossing an attitude... you catch more flies with honey than viniger...

Carl, Rootsy is right.. I am not defending the marina where your boat is, but stuff does take time.. Also if they are any good you are probably not there only client.. You wouldn't want them putting someone else in front of you that showed up after you.. I know if we get someone in we try to accomodate as well as we can but there is only so much a place can do.. There is truth in the "honey" saying. After that a lot of places look to get rid of clients that complain and cause them grief when they are doing everything they can, at least we do.. We tell our customer the good, bad and indifferent truth. We give them as much info as possible such as pics, documentation, phone calls & research to give them and an explaination on what is going on and keep them in the loop. Personally I rather know what is going on exactly and why, even if it is not something I want to hear. I hate being in the dark or people that avoid calling you if it is not something you want to hear. Alot of times things are out of the marina's control. Such as insurance companies being involved, waiting for parts, etc...

Rootsy, I am working 12-14hrs a day in my slow time.. 7 days a week. ( I am not even open to the public on the weekends). The busy times of year like now will be pushing 18 hours.

***Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. However there are always two sides to every story. Each party may misunderstand where the other is coming from at times and people get upset & frustrated. Which is understandable. Also at times I am sure that there are marinas that are just run unprofessionally as well. Just like in the real world with people...you can't stereotype every marina based on one. I know we all do it. Just human nature.**** MY OPINION ONLY. Jamie/Lakeside

Carl C
09-25-2006, 11:00 AM
Jamie (@Lakeside), please read post #7. Yes there are good marinas, but I haven't found one yet in Michigan. When I called around about getting a minor recall done the responses were all between rude and indifferent. "Drop it off, we'll call you when it's ready". My parts counter experiences haven't been much better. Still no update on my situation.

LKSD
09-25-2006, 11:16 AM
Jamie (@Lakeside), please read post #7. Yes there are good marinas, but I haven't found one yet in Michigan. When I called around about getting a minor recall done the responses were all between rude and indifferent. "Drop it off, we'll call you when it's ready". My parts counter experiences haven't been much better. Still no update on my situation.

:) yes.. I do agree there are times & places that people do have problems finding reputable shops.. I was agreeing with Rootsy because I know that reputable shops still sometimes have a waiting period and that there are reasons for that... I didn't want you to feel that you were necessarily intentionally being neglected if all is on the up & up.. Again I dont know that marina personally. Therefore you aggrevations there could definitley be 100% warranted.. As a marina owner I just didnt want to see you be given anymore grief to deal with than what you already have.. That is why I also was quick to give you some #'s on the IMCO stuff.. I know it may or may not work for you.. However at least this way you have stuff to fall back upon & think about.. Believe me my reponses in this thread or any thread are not about personal attacks or belittleing anyone.. I am just trying to help objectivley.. Sometimes it will only benefit the site members, somtimes it benefits us both.. Either way I just try to help & guide with the best of intentions where I can.. :) :) Jamie / Lakeside

BTW: Please keep us posted on what transpires..

FYI: If the place your boat is at keeps telling you that they will look at your boat tomorrow & have an answer then, but tomorrow never seems to come... Then I too would be pissed with service like that.. :)

boxy
09-25-2006, 01:17 PM
:) If the place your boat is at keeps telling you that they will look at your boat tomorrow & have an answer then, but tomorrow never seems to come... Then I too would be pissed with service like that.. :)

In reading all of the posts it seems that the insurance company is more responsible for the delay than the marina.
Have they given the marina the green light to make the repairs yet?
If they haven't it may be time to kill this thread, and start a new "BillyBob's Insurance Co has had my boat tied up at the repair shop for 2 weeks" thread....

Good luck, hopefully everything gets straightened out soon.... :D

LKSD
09-25-2006, 01:35 PM
Boxy, you too may be correct... Not that this is necessarly Carls situation. However many times the Ins companies wont tell the dealer anything. The ins co's decide on their own what they will do & just mail a check to their client for what ever they feel like covering (some companies do cover better than others).. Then it is all up to the client to give the answers to the Marine repair faciluty as to what they are to do with the damaged item (repair, replace, nothing, etc...)..

Carl, you may want to drop a line to your ins co & ask if they even looked into your unit yet.. It may help to find out who's end the wait is on to give you the remaining info you need..

:) Jamie / Lakeside

Carl C
09-25-2006, 02:00 PM
No answers yet. There is only one person at the marina today, a salesman. He said something about this being the last day of a boat show and everyone is there wrapping things up. So much for 12 hour days working on customer's boats. I'm waiting for a call back from my insurance agent. Once again, would welding the cavitation plate be OK? I think this is a combination of nobody really caring........except me. I'm sick over this.:(

Rootsy
09-25-2006, 02:07 PM
No answers yet. There is only one person at the marina today, a salesman. He said something about this being the last day of a boat show and everyone is there wrapping things up. So much for 12 hour days working on customer's boats. I'm waiting for a call back from my insurance agent. Once again, would welding the cavitation plate be OK? I think this is a combination of nobody really caring........except me. I'm sick over this.:(

personally? i would demand a new case.. btu that is me... i don't want anythign welded on... not to mention it'll need to be refinished... and since the prop is bent it needs to come apart anyway to inspect all parts... a stainless prop is pretty GD tough and if it took a like hard enough to bend the trim rams... i'd almost want a whole new lower... but that is just me.. and i am anal sometimes...

p729lws
09-25-2006, 02:31 PM
i'd almost want a whole new lower... but that is just me.. and i am anal sometimes...


An anal retentive engineer??? Say it isn’t so…

LKSD
09-25-2006, 02:40 PM
You could weld a case, but on an 05???
Pi$$ on That!!! I would want a new case too.. at minimum... Sometimes ins co's are like this & you have to argue with them to get what you should...

Like I said sometimes it's the other stuff not the Marina, but it sounds like from what you are saying that they are not doing much to help you along with anything either...

Jamie / Lakeside

Carl C
09-25-2006, 03:34 PM
Thanks guys, I will try to insist on a new case which is what the marina wants to do also. I'll be patient a while longer and hope all works out. I think that if I could have taken it to Lakeside or ShanghiedAgain's shop or Pier 57 that I would've received good service so please don't take this personal. But for the #2 (temporarily) boating state in the country it is hard to find good service.

LKSD
09-25-2006, 03:46 PM
Thanks guys, I will try to insist on a new case which is what the marina wants to do also. I'll be patient a while longer and hope all works out. I think that if I could have taken it to Lakeside or ShanghiedAgain's shop or Pier 57 that I would've received good service so please don't take this personal. But for the #2 (temporarily) boating state in the country it is hard to find good service.

Thanks for the mention. That is sad on how service is up there with all the boating on the great lakes. Hope you make out okay. Jamie & Kristin/Lakeside:wink:

Carl C
09-28-2006, 09:35 AM
Progressive will only OK welding the lower gearcase and repairing the prop. Have any of you guys who recommended Progressive ins so whole heartedly ever had to make a claim? You better hope you don't need to. I'm awaiting a call from a superviser (not holding my breath). If I don't get proper repairs OK'd by tomorrow I will bring the boat home and fix it myself and demand my premium back on this worthless insurance policy that I purchased on the recommendation of members here. Yeah, I'm pissed off.

Rootsy
09-28-2006, 09:45 AM
...and demand my premium back on this worthless insurance policy that I purchased on the recommendation of members here.


niiiiiiiiiiice :rolleyes:

LKSD
09-28-2006, 09:49 AM
Progressive will only OK welding the lower gearcase and repairing the prop. Have any of you guys who recommended Progressive ins so whole heartedly ever had to make a claim? You better hope you don't need to. I'm awaiting a call from a superviser (not holding my breath). If I don't get proper repairs OK'd by tomorrow I will bring the boat home and fix it myself and demand my premium back on this worthless insurance policy that I purchased on the recommendation of members here. Yeah, I'm pissed off.

I am not trying to get anyone PO at me, but I have only had 1 good experince with progressive at our shop... All of my other clients that have had Progressive have been treated poorly.. Some of them supposedly got legal help to go after the ins company to get them to pay out a more reasonable claim, especially when the boat is so new... I know I would never ever recomend them to a client or friend to use progressive marine ins...

Maybe some people who recomended them had good experiences with their auto insurance (I dont know, just a thought) and had good auto claim responses.. Maybe they thought the boats policies would be ok too??

In defense of these people on the site, I dont think anyone here would have intentionally tried to mislead you... They may have just been a few of the lucky ones..

My personal favorite ins companies are ERIE (I use), INAMAR & Allstate (slow but usually paid out clims somewhat fairly)..

FYI: I too would be Pi$$ed at what they are offering to cover on your boat... If it was my boat I would be angry too...

:) Jamie / Lakeside

Carl C
09-28-2006, 09:57 AM
Thanks Jamie(Lakeside). I think the recommendations come because of their low rates. I recommend paying a little more for better treatment. Jamie(Rootsy), I'm not laying blame here on registry members. I think that they honestly think Progressive is good. They are not.

Carl C
09-28-2006, 10:44 AM
Just an update. Orion Marine says that the transom plate is cracked and the bellhousing is shattered so there is no point in putting the boat back together and it will cost me $400 to take the boat home as is. (in pieces)

Rootsy
09-28-2006, 10:59 AM
Just an update. Orion Marine says that the transom plate is cracked and the bellhousing is shattered so there is no point in putting the boat back together and it will cost me $400 to take the boat home as is. (in pieces)

welp looks like the engine is coming out and they'll be lookin to replace everything from the transom to the prop... tell em they can pay now or pay later... if they just rig it.. and you go out and in 2 hours break a gear cause they cheaped out.. are they gonna pay to rebuild the drive? ask them that... there is always taht question of whether it was damaged in the accident... pretty simple... and BE THERE when the insurance adjuster is looking things over...

btw, if the transom assy is broken... make damn sure they look at the coupler and flywheel on the engine...

btw, how did they miss a broken bellhousing and gimble housing? especially if the bellhousing is "shattered"?????????????

Morgan's Cloud
09-28-2006, 11:42 AM
You know , other than my own sob story earlier on , I've deliberately kept quiet on this because I just could'nt believe that damage was limited to the gearcase/trim rams and prop.
There is no cheap way out of this one . Let's see how good Progressive are now ..

yeller
09-28-2006, 12:02 PM
Sucks Carl. Doesn't look like there is going to be any way out of this without spending some of your own $, but you may be able to get away several hundred instead of a few thousand.
I'd get an independent certified appraiser to look at it and then ask several different marinas to give you an estimate of repairs based on the appraisers findings. Take all of this to a lawyer and have him/her write a letter to Progressive. Most times, insurance companies will change their tune after a letter from the lawyers.

harbormaster
09-28-2006, 12:28 PM
Carl, I will continue to recommend progressive as a boating insurance company. I base this on my experience as well as the experiences of others.

As for welding the cavitation plate back on drive, We have cases repaired all the time for our customers and you can't even tell that is was repaired. This also does not compromise the strength of the drive. I personally would rather keep the original case than have someone transfer the guts to a new untested case.
Just my 2 cents.

Carl C
09-28-2006, 03:19 PM
I went and got the boat today so at least I know it won't get stolen. It was sitting in a storage lot out in the boonies. Scot, I addressed this in another thread but this is where it really belongs. I believe that a welded repair would be visible and the painted gearcase less durable than the original powdercoat. The marina agrees. The insurance agent does not return phone calls to myself or the marina. The teardown revealed additional damage. I'm also not happy with the propeller being repaired. The new estimate is almost $11,000. Scot, should I be entitled to a new prop? I just want the boat put back the way it was. It was still in brand new condition. Scot, do you have any connections at Progressive? Could you make a phone call to help out a registry member? If not I will have to retain an attorney.

Carl C
09-28-2006, 04:54 PM
Scot, maybe I could live with a welded gearcase but there is newly discovered extensive damage so my boat will need extensive repairs anyway. I am not the one being difficult here the insurance company is. Is a repaired prop as good as new? I could really use advice here.

Cuda
09-28-2006, 05:42 PM
I'd be pissed too! I would want my boat back exactly the way it was when it was wrecked, and I would not settle for anything else. Get a lawyer if you have to. If they are found wrong in court, they will have to pay your attorney's fees also. If they are found to fraudulently misrepresented themselves, they could be liable for triple the damages. I'd sling everything at them and see what sticks.

Sorry that Progressive is giving you a hard time. I might have been one that recommended them, because when I totaled my truck last year, they were right on it, and took care of me well. I don't know how their boat insurance is, though I do have them for my boats, but I carry liability only. Can't afford full coverage here in Florida.:mad:

Good luck. Oh yeah, I'd take it to another shop too. How could they miss some of that damage the first time around.??:mad: