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cutwater
07-27-2006, 01:02 PM
Two questions. Say I'm looking at a testarossa Minx or 22C (red w/ no stripe) that has been poorly rePAINTED... What would be a reasonable price (materials & labor) to have it stripped and a correct red GEL COAT put on? Anybody know someone who can do this in the mid-south (TN, NC, SC, GA)?

Now, a dumb question from someone who knows NOTHING about gel: Is gel is only used from the waterline up and paint used on the bottom, or do you gel the bottom as well?

John

CHACHI
07-27-2006, 01:19 PM
You can gel the whole shootin' match. Inside, outside, top, and bottom. Ken

FlyingDutchman76
07-27-2006, 01:23 PM
I would try Jamie at Lakeside Restorations his number is 570-639-2628 He also has pictures of work he has done on his website. The show before and aftre pictures and it looks great, just check his website out or give him a call. He is located in PA

Lenny
07-27-2006, 01:32 PM
Now, a dumb question from someone who knows NOTHING about gel: Is gel is only used from the waterline up and paint used on the bottom, or do you gel the bottom as well?
John

The whole thing was/IS gel. I would re-gel the entire hull, NOT just waterline up. Also, if it were to be stripped (removal of paint on hull) maybe there is a prior surface that can be restored with some major elbow grease if it was not brutally sanded.

There is nothing wrong with paint, when done properly, either. That is a MUCH easier and cheaper way to go than a re-gel.

RedDog
07-27-2006, 01:46 PM
There is a good guy in the Knoxville area - I have seen his work and it is very good. Unfortunately I do not know where his shop is. Maybe in Lenoir City?

His name is Mike Henry - if your ask around some of the dealers, such as Travis Marine (ask William), they should be able to steer you to him.

Here are a couple of other options but I don't know the quality:

Misers Fiberglass in Seymour (in the old Camel Tent factory)
Fiberglass repair on Clinton Hwy. Near the Knox / Anderson Co line

cutwater
07-27-2006, 01:54 PM
So, for a 20' Minx - are we talkin $1K, $3K, $5K, ...? Anybody know how much cheaper a QUALITY paint job would be than gel? Is it easy to find paint that matches the Testarossa red?


His name is Mike Henry -

I was given this guy's number by a broker in Knoxville when I was trying to get some info on the 1955 Chris Craft I have... The phone number was apparently wrong and I never found him. I'll ask out at Travis Marine.

RedDog
07-27-2006, 02:04 PM
So, for a 20' Minx - are we talkin $1K, $3K, $5K, ...? Anybody know how much cheaper a QUALITY paint job would be than gel? Is it easy to find paint that matches the Testarossa red?
I was given this guy's number by a broker in Knoxville when I was trying to get some info on the 1955 Chris Craft I have... The phone number was apparently wrong and I never found him. I'll ask out at Travis Marine.

There are about 4 Micheal Henrys listed for Knoxville and Lenoir City. May be worth just trying them all

I can't help you on a cost estimate

cutwater
07-27-2006, 03:04 PM
is the boat going to be kept indoors????left in the water???
Boat will be trailered/covered but not indoors until next year...


paint will not be as effected by the sun as paint will especially in red
???

gcarter
07-27-2006, 03:13 PM
Why not wait till next year and do it right? If you choose to re-gel (or paint), You can do a better job with the deck and hull seperated.
Paint holds up much better to UV than gel.
Neither one is much harder to accomplish than the other. Cost will be similar too.
Gel is cheaper than high end automotive paint. Gel requires more finish work (labor) than paint.
If you can keep the boat inside, the red gel would be really special. What ever you do gel the hull bottom.

cutwater
07-27-2006, 03:33 PM
I probably would wait till next year regardless... mainly I just want to get an idea of cost range for re-gelling before I purchase the boat.

I believe the prior surface was just painted over, since the interior was not painted and still has the original finish. So like Lenny said, there MIGHT even be a good gel coat underneath that could be nice with a LOT of elbow grease.

gcarter
07-27-2006, 04:21 PM
John, last winter I re-gelled the bottom and some other bottom repairs....
So take a look at;
http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=43778&highlight=hook
But in particular, look at the next to last page and you can get some ideas of costs.

Ryan23
07-28-2006, 08:06 AM
I probably would wait till next year regardless... mainly I just want to get an idea of cost range for re-gelling before I purchase the boat.

I believe the prior surface was just painted over, since the interior was not painted and still has the original finish. So like Lenny said, there MIGHT even be a good gel coat underneath that could be nice with a LOT of elbow grease.

John -
There is a ton of labor involved as Gcarter pointed out in his thread. The one quote I got to re-gel (or paint) my 24' Spitfire was between $4000-$8000. That was one color, with a stripe.

If you opt to do it yourself, I can give you some insight. You really have to love her if you go down this road though, lol. Assuming the gel is still good underneath (and this is a BIG if!) you'll need to set aside a few weeks of time.

Here's a rundown of what I've purchased so far:

2 1/2 gallons of stripper. I used Interlux 299. It's made especially for boats and won't hurt the gelcoat. I paid $71 a gallon locally. I'm sure there are cheaper options but I chose to stick with this.

1/2 gallon of Interlux 202 stripper. Used to clean up the surface and neutralize any left over chemicals after stripping. ~$30?

Plastic Home Depot "stiff" scapers. You'll probably go through a dozen or so. They won't scratch the gel like a metal one will. Downside, they dull with time. $20?

Big box o' rags: $10

Sandpaper: 320, 600, 800, 1000, 1200 grit $40?

Rubbing compound. I prefer the 3M stuff. They have a ton of different cuts, I forget the exact name I'm starting with. Ask me later and I can go look. I've always used 3M with cars and it works really well. You can find it at a good paint supply store. I apply it with a foam pad and an electric buffer. $40

Paintbrush, pan, sanding block, wax, misc: $50

That's comes out to around ~$500, give or take. These may not be the best prices but they reflect what's available locally.

I started stripping in a small inconspicuous spot to see what would happen. Sure enough, it ate through a few layers of paint after 5-10 minutes. I stripped down to the primer. I then wet sanded with 320 grit to break the primer and reveal the gel. I made about a 4"x"4 square. Then I progressively wetsanded up to 1200 grit and took the buffer to it. It shined up like new so I started working my way out. I stripped down to the primer, working in 3 foot sections at a time. I then block (wet) sanded it all by hand to remove the primer. You could probably save some labor using a electric sander but I'm paranoid and would rather do it by hand. Your shoulders will not be happy about this ;)

At this point I've go the starboard side down to the original gel. I have ~20 hours of so tied up in it so far. I have another 4-5 hours to spend wetsanding still. Then I'll buff it out and wax it. So I'm figuring about 26 hours per side + the transom. It takes a lot of elbow grease but I'm finding it very gratifying. Not to mention the money saved. However, when you look at your own labor that's involved, it's easy to see where the money comes from.

In my case, I figure I was a bit lucky. A phone call to the second owner indicated my boat was painted prior to 1981. Apparently the original owner's wife didn't like the orange/white look so he had it painted sometime during the first 5 years of her life. My gel looked brand-spanking new after a little love.

Anyways, this is probably more info than you need but I figured I would give you a heads up. If you choose to do it yourself, make sure to pick cloudy days or a shady spot to work!


Ryan

cutwater
07-29-2006, 02:33 PM
Thanks for the replies. Talked to Jamie at Lakeside - really nice up-front guy. I think Ryan23's estimation is 'right on the money' - especially for red (I guess because of the deep pigment). Ouch. I do have access to a nice climate-controlled paint booth with professional tools and a top-notch air filtration system, so I am thinking about doing it myself if I decide to re-gel (assuming I buy the boat in the first place!). Although the only thing I know about the subject is from past threads on the forum.

Ultimately, I think the ideal move would be to strip the paint, bring the gel back to life, and then clearcoat with Awlgrip. Unfortunately, you never know what lies below the paint... :crossfing

How many gallons of gel PER coat do you guys think it would take to cover a 20' Minx?

gcarter
07-29-2006, 04:17 PM
The gel is the least expensive part of the job.
It took one gallon to do my bottom, that's chine to chine.
If you look at;
https://www.minicraft.com/retail/donzimarine.htm
You'll notice that five gallons cost about the same as two gallons of color matched gel. I suppose it has a shelf life of two years or so. I would say you don't do coats like you would paint. If you spray too heavily, you get great orange peel but little else. Instead, mentally mark an area and build up gel in thinner coats that remain smooth until you have the desired thickness, then move on. Keep going till you have a side, bottom side, transom, front or rear half of the deck done. It's really pretty easy.
If you're using a HVLP gun, I would invest in a DeVilbiss bag system. It really saves on cleanup.
After you get all your gel on and all the wax off, start sanding. I used a D-A in several increments ending up w/1200 paper. I sanded it dry and it turned out very well in my estimation. A little 3M compound, some polish and it looked like a new bottom. :)

LKSD
07-29-2006, 05:28 PM
Best of luck to both of you guys.. You already know what you are in for as I told you both in you calls (which you guys also acknowleged ;) ).. Keep us posted as to how you make out.. Who knows what you guys will find under there, but with they way things are today I cant fault you for trying to save some coin.. If I can be of service to any of you in the future let me know.. :) & congrats to both of you on your new Donzis.. :) Jamie / Lakeside :)