More power needed for 22 Classic

[FlyingDutchman76]

I am in search for more power for my recently purchased 1998 22 Classic. It currently has a Mercruiser 7.4 MPI and it can use more HP, therefore I am considering a new engine or maybe a Procharger. Any suggestions and help is greatly appreciated. I also like to replace all gauges with the Livorsi ones. Anyone familiar with having the Livorsi throttle pod installed on a 22 Classic (The Shelby has the same throttle pod) I have spoken to Jamie and he was very helpful, but would prefer someone in the South East region (GA) since I have limited time to deliver a boat to a performance shop.

If I am deciding to replace the engine the ones that come to mind are the 496HO and the Mercury Racing HP500EFI I would like some feedback from Donzi owners/lovers who have experience with any of the two engines.

[joseph m. hahnl]

Isn't a 7.4 allready a 496????





joe

[MOP]

454 block

[Pismo]

Your current 7.4 engine has cast internals and won't really hold up well to serious mods like a supercharger. The 496 is a 454 stroked to 4.375". A 496 is 8.1L. They don't make the HP500 anymore but a used one could be found. The new HP525 would be a perfect engine in a 22. You will need full hydraulic steering above about 70-75mph so work that into the budget, $3-5k. Any 502/8.2 block with forged internals would be a great starting point for big power and speed. The base 502 will be about 420hp and will push the 22 to around 75mph (I have one) and can be readily modified to 500+hp. It will be fun. Take it easy and the stock Bravo drive will hold up.

[Pismo]

The 496HO is great and will push you into the mid 70s but is not really a very good motor to highly modify (like supercharge) If you are happy with mid 70s this would be the perfect new stock setup and you could probably get away with the stock steering and stock Bravo. The 496 CMI exhaust would add a couple mph and still probably maintain the stock reliability but not the warranty. Sorry, I don't know anything about gauges or sticks.

[Pismo]

Just noticed, please clarify exactly what motor you have now. Is it a 385hp 454 Magnum or a 310ish hp 7.4L. The magnum is a great forged engine and could handle major mods like a supercharger, the 7.4L will not.

[FlyingDutchman76]

It currently has a 310HP 7.4 MPI Mercruiser. This boat definately needs some more HP, but do not want to go overboard, concerning the $$$$. I would like to get a 496 Installed, I found one with the whole Raylar 103 kit which has 527HP, that should be more than plenty, the asking price is a little high though.

What about the Bravo One it has now, does that need to be replaced with something different, or will it hold up ?

[harbormaster]

The 310 - 330 hp 454 is a boat anchor. You will need to unload it and get something else.
A merc 496 HO is its own animal. different block, heads etc..
The exhaust port and bolt pattern are interchangeable with a 502.
There are folks who stroke/bore a 454 to a 496 and call it a 496 but it is not a true "496".
The 496 Mag and Mag HO have quietly developed a reputation for being a very reliable strong motor. Is it a good platform for a performance motor? Probably not. Only the first year or two had forged steel components.
Raylar has based their business on 496 performance parts. I have a customer who spent alot of money on their intake, heads, etc and gained a nominal increase in performance. They are the only authority on 496 performance that I know of.
They also come with closed cooling.
As I tell my customers its a motor for boaters who want to go boat riding instead of boat fixing.
The Bravo one should be fine as long as you do not slam the throttle forward when leaving the local watering hole OR not throttle back when getting air. This is what tears up a drive.
On a side note (tasteless advertisement) If you are looking for an engine
I sell new 600 hp 540 cid engines. ( based on a Merin 502 Block) for $11,800.00
If you do not want to go that large I also sell 535hp 454's that have been bored and stroked to 496 cid for 8270.00
These include intake and carb. You will need to add your exhausts and accessories. I drop ship these engines to most states for$85.00 Call me at 713-910-2000

[Pismo]

The Bravo will hold up if you take it easy. The big question I have is why did someone install a Raylar kit and then want to sell the engine? 527hp would be great. You'll be over 80 and steering will be an issue, if not at first in a couple years when things start to loosen up.

[FlyingDutchman76]

Thank you for your replies. I completely agree with the fact that the 7.4MPI is an anchor, therefore you guys know what the solution of this problem will be, goodbye to the 7.4 :wavey: and looking hard for something FAST.

Scot can you forward me some pictures of the engines you have for sale and what it takes from me to get installed + extra parts needed, etc. ? A 535hp 454 sounds like music (thunder) to my ears. My e-mail address is; johan@1olympus.com

The 7.4 engine currently in my 22 Classic is in tip-top shape, no leaks, etc, etc. Does anyone know someone interested ?

[Cuda]

The stock 454 may not be a fire breather, but it's damn reliable, and nearly impossible to blow up. You have to make a decision if you want to go steady medium speed ALL the time, or go real fast SOME of the time. Deb's 1982 has the original 454/330, and it still runs like a top. I just feel the need for a couple more mph. I'll probably regret going big, but I'm keeping the 454 as back up. :)

[FlyingDutchman76]

The stock 454 may not be a fire breather, but it's damn reliable, and nearly impossible to blow up. You have to make a decision if you want to go steady medium speed ALL the time, or go real fast SOME of the time. Deb's 1982 has the original 454/330, and it still runs like a top. I just feel the need for a couple more mph. I'll probably regret going big, but I'm keeping the 454 as back up. :)

I prefer to go FAST all the time, I know it sounds crazy, but I am always bymyself at the lake and just like to go fast, faster than I am able to do now with the 7.4MPI. It currently tops at approx. 65mph, I would like to go to the mid 70's maybe low 80's.

[Cuda]

I prefer to go FAST all the time, I know it sounds crazy, but I am always bymyself at the lake and just like to go fast, faster than I am able to do now with the 7.4MPI. It currently tops at approx. 65mph, I would like to go to the mid 70's maybe low 80's.
Going fast and always running is an oxymoron. Unless you want to step up to the plate and dish out $30+ for a new 525 Efi. :) Actually, a 496 HO will get you to mid seventies, for around $13k or so. If you start tinkering the the 496, I would question the reliability, but that's just me. :) I've spent too much time messing with that Minx, when I should have just bit the bullet from the beginning and bought a new 5.7. I guarantee you I have that much in the engines, and it's STILL not running at the present. A fact that I hope to rememdy tomorrow morning. :)

[FlyingDutchman76]

Going fast and always running is an oxymoron. Unless you want to step up to the plate and dish out $30+ for a new 525 Efi. :) Actually, a 496 HO will get you to mid seventies, for around $13k or so. If you start tinkering the the 496, I would question the reliability, but that's just me. :) I've spent too much time messing with that Minx, when I should have just bit the bullet from the beginning and bought a new 5.7. I guarantee you I have that much in the engines, and it's STILL not running at the present. A fact that I hope to rememdy tomorrow morning. :)

I am not brave enough to step up to the plate and put down $30.000 instead, I have found two 496 converted with the 103 Raylar kits which brings in to 527HP on the dyno according the owners. I think that should be more than enough HP for the 22 Classic. By-the-way the gas station attendant at the lake loves me for $4.38 a gallon for premium twice a week fill up, that's one of te disadvantages for wanting to go fast all-the-time :eek!:

[Cuda]

I am not brave enough to step up to the plate and put down $30.000 instead, I have found two 496 converted with the 103 Raylar kits which brings in to 527HP on the dyno according the owners. I think that should be more than enough HP for the 22 Classic. By-the-way the gas station attendant at the lake loves me for $4.38 a gallon for premium twice a week fill up, that's one of te disadvantages for wanting to go fast all-the-time :eek!:
I saw a Raylar on Oso for 12 something. Is that the one?

[FlyingDutchman76]

I saw a Raylar on Oso for 12 something. Is that the one?
There are two on there, one for $12 and one for $12.5 :hyper: Is there anyone here in the South East that has one of Scot's engine's installed, would like to know to get some more details on it.

[BigGrizzly]

Dutch, I live in the Atlanta area on Lake Lanier. I have done extensive work on my 22 Croterion with a procharger and My son has put a Wipple on his 7.4 on his 22ZX. As for a 496 it is a good engine but nothing special. It has smaller ports and smaller valves thab a 502. The 496 has its own set of issues. It is much harder to make go fast and stay together under big power. My engine has 650+ HP and has been together for over 400 hours. My son's has been together over 3 summers and still runs well(he runs his hard). What I am telling you is fact. I have no love affair with the Chevy big block I'm a Ford guy. If you give me a call or swing by the the lake an we can talk. My phones are cell-770-318-1136 home is 706-216-8194. Nuff said

[FlyingDutchman76]

Dutch, I live in the Atlanta area on Lake Lanier. I have done extensive work on my 22 Croterion with a procharger and My son has put a Wipple on his 7.4 on his 22ZX. As for a 496 it is a good engine but nothing special. It has smaller ports and smaller valves thab a 502. The 496 has its own set of issues. It is much harder to make go fast and stay together under big power. My engine has 650+ HP and has been together for over 400 hours. My son's has been together over 3 summers and still runs well(he runs his hard). What I am telling you is fact. I have no love affair with the Chevy big block I'm a Ford guy. If you give me a call or swing by the the lake an we can talk. My phones are cell-770-318-1136 home is 706-216-8194. Nuff said

BigGrizzly;

Thank you for your reply. I will be in touch in the next week or so, to get some of your input which way to go. I am looking forward speaking with you.

[Pismo]

Why are these Raylar kit 496s for sale. What didnt they like about them after the conversion that made them want to sell? They cant be more than a year or two after the conversion.

[harbormaster]

Why not ask the guy who is selling them....

[Pismo]

Because he is first a foremost trying to sell them.........and therefore may not give you the whole story. Just curious, I have heard nothing negative about the Raylar kits.

[Cuda]

They probably just didn't get him where he wanted to be. He most likely went with bigger inches.

[blackhawk]

Why are these Raylar kit 496s for sale. What didnt they like about them after the conversion that made them want to sell? They cant be more than a year or two after the conversion.

It's called the speed bug aka "twomphitis"! :D You always want just 2-3 mph more. Then you get it and you're happy...for awhile. Then you want another 2-3 mph. Etc, etc. It's a vicious cycle! :D

[FlyingDutchman76]

I did speak to the seller, he is looking for more power, I believe he has a 28 Advantage. I also spoke to Ray from Raylar and he confirmed the story.

The sellers boat needs more, for a 22 Classic this would be perfect. Anyone out there with different suggestions on engines ?

[ITTLFLI]

I always recommend and prefer forged compenents as come in the "mag" motors.

However in our 22's unless going with a supercharger, nitrous, or spinning above 5000rpm forged compenents are not necessary. Really, how long can you hold these boats at a sustained 75-80mph. If you have a good 7.4/310 shortblock, you could add a set of good aluminum heads, a decent cam, intake, and carb and have a good running 454! This is recommended for the budget minded folks.

500's and 525,s are excellenst choices if budgets are no object!

Just my $.02

Byron :boat:

[RickSE]

HP500.. Not modded, bulletproof reliable factory HP....

Ditto. Take-outs can be had for a fair price.

I'd ask some of the guys here what to do to beef the boat up for more power. I really think an offshore bracket is where you start.

[FlyingDutchman76]

I always recommend and prefer forged compenents as come in the "mag" motors.
However in our 22's unless going with a supercharger, nitrous, or spinning above 5000rpm forged compenents are not necessary. Really, how long can you hold these boats at a sustained 75-80mph. If you have a good 7.4/310 shortblock, you could add a set of good aluminum heads, a decent cam, intake, and carb and have a good running 454! This is recommended for the budget minded folks.
500's and 525,s are excellenst choices if budgets are no object!
Just my $.02
Byron :boat:

Thank you for your message. I will certainly explore that option. Do you know of anyone in the South East that can perform that work on my 7.4 engine ? I found a 496 Magnum on oso.com I would need to send it to Raylar to get that kit installed which is an additional $6k, gets an expensive but great hobby ;) Your suggestion sounds good. What do you think I can expect after the recommended upgrades ? HP and speed ?

[FlyingDutchman76]

Ditto. Take-outs can be had for a fair price.
I'd ask some of the guys here what to do to beef the boat up for more power. I really think an offshore bracket is where you start.

What is an offshore bracket ???

[ITTLFLI]

Thank you for your message. I will certainly explore that option. Do you know of anyone in the South East that can perform that work on my 7.4 engine ? I found a 496 Magnum on oso.com I would need to send it to Raylar to get that kit installed which is an additional $6k, gets an expensive but great hobby ;) Your suggestion sounds good. What do you think I can expect after the recommended upgrades ? HP and speed ?

No problem. I can not recommend anyone in the southeast. Give me your email and I can send you some pics and details.:pimp:

[LKSD]

Just read this thread thru today.. Just my 2 cents, Im not looking to make waves.

The truth be told The 7.4 mpi while not as good as the MAG can handle a low boost SC. But everything must be done moderatley. The mags obviously make better platforms. The more reliable power you want the more it costs. The reason he was told about the 7.4 mpi SC kit is he asked & there are ones out there with many hours on them, but they are set up conservitavley. Sometimes adding an SC is still cheaper & better than going the route of a take out.. there are trade offs with most things. What it comes down to is preference & available money. Repowering & Supercharging are both good ways of going, you just need to decide what you preference is & what funds you will be comfortable spending.. :) Jamie / Lakeside

[undertaker]

"""Im not looking to make waves. "" Yeah right Jaime:wink: :wink: :wink:



Just kidding.....:) :) :propeller :propeller


Undertaker:boggled: :bonk: :yes: :pimp: :boat:

[LKSD]

"""Im not looking to make waves. "" Yeah right Jaime:wink: :wink: :wink:
Just kidding.....:) :) :propeller :propeller
Undertaker:boggled: :bonk: :yes: :pimp: :boat:


:D :D .....:propeller :) J

[ITTLFLI]

The truth be told The 7.4 mpi while not as good as the MAG can handle a low boost SC. But everything must be done moderatley. The mags obviously make better platforms. The more reliable power you want the more it costs.

True! :)

[ITTLFLI]

What is an offshore bracket ???

I assume this is what he means. It is a solid engine mount aka offshore mount.

[RickSE]

Yes that's it. I really think it helps beef-up and tie the stringers together. Makes engine alignment a bitch though.