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Marlin275
07-25-2006, 10:44 AM
NTSB Finds Weight Caused N.Y. Boat to Flip
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: July 25, 2006
Filed at 11:18 a.m. ET

WASHINGTON (AP) -- An upstate New York tour boat was overloaded with passengers when it capsized on a fall foliage tour in October, killing 20 elderly tourists, federal investigators said Tuesday.

The extra weight made the 40-foot Ethan Allen dangerously unstable after it was struck by a wave from a passing boat or boats on Lake George in the Adirondacks, investigators from the National Transportation Safety Board said.

''It appears that there were a large number of passengers on board that seems to exceed the number that perhaps should have been,'' said Capt. Morgan Turrell, an NTSB investigator.

The boat was certified to carry 50 people -- 48 passengers plus two crew -- according to weight limits that have since come under scrutiny and been revised. There were 48 people on board when it capsized.

Turrell said investigators believe the boat, operated by Shoreline Cruises, was rocked by a wake or combination of wakes, but they could not determine the size of the wave. Investigators ruled out any leakage or other problems with the hull and operator fatigue.

The Oct. 2 accident -- in which the boat suddenly flipped on a calm, sunny day -- sparked changes in federal weight rules that could ultimately affect every commercial passenger boat in the United States.

The tragedy also had implications for the Coast Guard's decades-old rule calculating an average passenger weight at 140 pounds, which assumes a mix of men, women and children. New York state watercraft rules on weight followed the federal standard.

But Americans are about 25 pounds heavier than they were 40 years ago and in April the Coast Guard announced it would set a standard of 185 pounds per person. The new weight calculation is voluntary until new rules are created.

On the Net:
National Transportation Safety Board: http://www.ntsb.gov

joel3078
07-25-2006, 01:36 PM
A year or so either the history channel or the learning channel did a special on building big ass cruise ships. I remember a key hazard to them was weight. Not too much weight total, but how weight is distributed. The new cruise ships have many decks to them thus making them very tall. Sudden shift in weight to one side can make them tippy or tip over. Wonder if this happened to that big cruise ship that listed over 15° a couple weeks ago. They reported steering problems was suspect. I have a feeling too many people on the left side of the boat gathered at the same time causing uneven weight distribution. Oh ya, the movie scheduled to play was titanic :eek!:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=2209772

Sad part is, they never figured out what went wrong and let the same ship leave port and go onto the next cruise. It's all about the money!!!!

Marlin275
07-25-2006, 05:52 PM
That cruise ship tilt was human error.

Cruise Ship Tilt Blamed on Human Error
Jul 25 5:58 PM US/Eastern
ORLANDO, Fla.

Human error caused a cruise ship to abruptly tilt at sea last week, sending furniture and debris flying about the boat and injuring 240 passengers, a cruise line official said.
Though federal investigations continue, Princess Cruises president Alan Buckelow wrote in a letter to passengers that "the incident was due to human error and the appropriate personnel changes have been made."

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/07/25/D8J398NO2.html

joel3078
07-25-2006, 07:18 PM
It was also reported earlier last week that the cruise ship was on autopilot at the time and the captain was not at the helm. Sounds more like either a programming error for autopilot or human error is just an excuse to let the boat run again. Gotta cost many millions to let a big ass new boat sit idle with no passangers. Rushing things sank the titanic by the way. Maybe the new cruise ships can turn really fast so they miss icebergs. Tight turn would cause tilting.

OK I'll bite. How do you make a cruise ship suddenly tilt by driving it? Assuming no anchore or dock lines are attatched. Do the bow and side thrusters have that many balls that they can get a big ship to tilt? I just can't see how the main engines/rudders could turn so far that it would cause a tilt situation. But hey, that's just me. I've had so many people BS me that I don't trust much at face value anymore

pmreed
07-25-2006, 10:06 PM
Think stabilizers. I know the old liners had them, and I would assume the cruise ships have them. They're automatic, but if they go on the fritz, they could enhance rolling rather than combatting it. That could happen rapidly, as opposed to a shifting in ballast which would be slow.

Phil

Lenny
07-26-2006, 01:46 AM
We have had a few now, (in the last few years) roll brutally while coming into our Harbour. Enough to empty the pools and clean off the lounges on the decks. Usually, (here) attributed to the entire ship population racing to one side to watch the Killer Whales...

DonziJon
07-26-2006, 09:07 AM
Think stabilizers. I know the old liners had them, and I would assume the cruise ships have them. They're automatic, but if they go on the fritz, they could enhance rolling rather than combatting it. That could happen rapidly, as opposed to a shifting in ballast which would be slow.
Phil

Stabilizers is correct, and they are quite large. They are retracted when entering port. Designed to counter the "ROLL" of the ship in a seaway which would cause the land lubbers to get queezy and not enjoy the trip, and drop less money in the "slots". :lookaroun

Picture yourself tooling along in you Donzi at about 45 with your three year old sitting on your lap...Daddy, Daddy, what are these buttons for??? Son, those are the trim tab buttons. :bonk: John