Let's do some troubleshooting on the ol' 454

[Lineleader]

I'm still scratching and clawing my way back to the boat ramp. I'm trying hard to get the old girl up and running smooth again. After my most recent debacle with the TRS out drive (situation now stable, fingers remaining crossed after recent weld job), I'm back to engine issues.

Starts up easy and runs pretty good. After about 10 minutes or so (up to assumed operating temperature) engine begins to idle rough and stall out. After several more failed attempts to start and run at idle, ignition switch will not start the engine (no clicking, just turn the key and nothing). You can hear the electric fuel pump running with the key on.

What you think? Is this a fuel or ignition problem or both? I've replaced plugs, old fuel, battery, filters, fuel pump, etc. Temp and tach gauges not working, will trace wires and sending units tomorrow.

Ideas??

[Cuda]

Key switch?

[Moody Blu']

yea mine did that but i got it to work again, the old ones are pretty darn good if you clean them. try spraying some wd 40 in the key hole and disconnect the battery and turnit off and into start back and forth a couple times and see if it starts then. if not it sounds like the solenoid went bad?

or perhaps the shifter fail safe cut off for the trs is not allowing it to start?maybe im not understandign this? is the motor cranking when you say nothing?????? or you turn the ignition and no clicking or cranking of the motor it just does nothing?

[Audiofn]

Sounds to me like a voltage issue. Check with a multi meter to see what your voltage is. My guess is that your battery is sitting for a while and allowing you to start up the boat but then after it runs for a little bit the thing starts to drop in voltage and then there is not enough to keep the spark going. You may also have corroded wires from your battery to the engine. Check your ground and power wires. If you see ANY corrosion at the ends replace them. Donzi used crappy wire and one of mine corroded in the middle of the wire. :bonk: So just because your wires look ok does not mean that they are ok. Check your connection at the battery also. Is it good and tight and clean. Even if it looks clean hit it with a wire brush and do the same at the engine. Your voltage test will tell us a LOT. Could be a bad alternator.

Jon

[Audiofn]

Oh and I would not do a thing tell those temp and tach guages are back working.

Jon

[Lineleader]

yea mine did that but i got it to work again, the old ones are pretty darn good if you clean them. try spraying some wd 40 in the key hole and disconnect the battery and turnit off and into start back and forth a couple times and see if it starts then. if not it sounds like the solenoid went bad?

or perhaps the shifter fail safe cut off for the trs is not allowing it to start?maybe im not understandign this? is the motor cranking when you say nothing?????? or you turn the ignition and no clicking or cranking of the motor it just does nothing?

B. Once it gets warmed up and stalls, turning the ignition does not crank motor, no clicking, no cranking. That's what lead me to think of changing the ignition switch, but the problem is intermittant. After many atttempts, it may catch, but motor will only run for a few seconds and stall.

[BUIZILLA]

coil overheating?

[LKSD]

Do you have any junk floating in the fuel tank... ??

[Moody Blu']

its def electrical

you CAN(not saying its the smartest thing) hot wire the ignition to see if its the switch. did you spray anything in the key switch like i said?

audio fn has a point too. if its not cranking its one of 3 things 1 could be the switch 2 bad battery 3 time for a new starter and one other thing you need to check is your alternator cuz it sounds like the motor is running off the battery and then dying when theres no juice so def get out your multimeter cand check the alternator to see if its putting out amperage to charge your battery

so go put a charger on your batt and make sure the batt is topped off with fluid (de-ionized water?)- i forget and start the motor and check the alternator first i think they put out about 12-14 volts if its any lower you need a alt. (and you may need a battery cuz running off the battery can kill the cells in them) then what happens is the battery is shot and runs too much off the alternator and fries that out again....(i had a big block caddy that loved to eat up starters alternators and batteries)

i def suggest a new battery for the new season
if you want to know what i do, every new season i end up taking my 1000 CA battery back to walmart(everstart maxx battery) and return it for a new one(they come with a 3 year waranty but what they dont know is the waranty starts from the sticker on the battery so the waranty gets renewed ;) but any way, i return my battery and get a fresh one EVERY season. I also bring my old batteries indoor in climate controlled house so they last longer.

so check those 3 things one thing is for sure ITS DEF electrical

[Lineleader]

Thanks very much for your suggestions. The temp guage is now operational, in fact the only one not working is the tach. We basically ran a can of carb cleaner throught it today, adjusted the choke and fuel mixture settings and it ran pretty good. Put in a fresh 12 gallons and can of Gumout. Ran good enough to launch for a test drive with a back up boat.

Started and ran really well. Temp guage registered 160-170 and ran really smooth. After a while it struggled at idle and cut off a few times. Everyone on board felt that at low speed and on start up it was not hitting on all eight. Then it would just "kick in" and lurch to a smooth running engine. The general feeling is now it must be electrical. Either spark plugs or wires, distributor cap, rotor, previously mentioned battery cables or maybe even timing off a bit.

Sound reasonable at this point?

Seriously, I thank you for your comments. I'm really getting close and it was GREAT to get her running. We clocked about sixty with four big boys in her tonight.

PS: The battery is only a couple of months old.

[Cuda]

What did you do to fix your TRS problems from before?

[Moody Blu']

hmmm now it sounds like a dirty carb

its starting up fine now? so it must have been a dirty connection and now that your using the ignition itscleaning up the switch? hard to trouble shoot without bein there

might as well put fresh dist cap,rotor,wires and plugs on it i just did mine, last set was in good shape but was 3 years old and felt like freshing it up plus its always good to have spares

[Lineleader]

What did you do to fix your TRS problems from before?


Oh you know, the usual, bought what I believed to be a working TRS drive, complete with upper and lower units, merc trans II transmission, inner and outer transom mounting plates, and two electric shift motors. Everthing worked fine, problem was it was a TR outdrive not a TRS. Oh well, lots of spare parts and the shift motor was sorely needed. Anybody need a working TR outdrive??

Went to a local prop shop who told me they weld cracks in outdrives basically in their sleep. Long story short, $80 later I was back in business and it seems to be working fine. Go figure.

Thanks for the help Cuda, you lead me in the right direction.

[Lineleader]

hmmm now it sounds like a dirty carb
its starting up fine now? so it must have been a dirty connection and now that your using the ignition itscleaning up the switch? hard to trouble shoot without bein there
might as well put fresh dist cap,rotor,wires and plugs on it i just did mine, last set was in good shape but was 3 years old and felt like freshing it up plus its always good to have spares


It started pretty easy before.

The ignition switch seems to work fine now.

Thats the next step, new cap, wires, rotor, plugs. I do think the carb was or possible still gummed up some.

Thanks

[Moody Blu']

It started pretty easy before.
The ignition switch seems to work fine now.
Thats the next step, new cap, wires, rotor, plugs. I do think the carb was or possible still gummed up some.
Thanks


i know my last carb did the exact same thing and it was completely gummed up inside with nasty crud, i soaked the carb in cider vinager for 2 hours it was so bad. put it back on after cleaning it and it started right up! ;)

what kind of carb and how long since its been looked at/cleaned?

[Lineleader]

It a weber carb. It was put on new a couple of years ago, but has since sat around idle way too long. We basically tried to clean it best we could and did indeed encounter varnish. I guess it still could have some junk in it causing the problems. That why the added Gumout, fresh fuel and running the whole can of carb cleaner through it, hoping to flush out whatever was left in the carb.

[Moody Blu']

well, i would say take it apart and clean it theres no telling whats in there... after two summers and winter of no rebuild my edelbrock(carter) was filthy

[mrfixxall]

It a webber carb. It was put on new a couple of years ago, but has since sat around idle way too long. We basically tried to clean it best we could and did indeed encounter varnish. I guess it still could have some junk in it causing the problems. That why the added Gumout, fresh fuel and running the whole can of carb cleaner through it, hoping to flush out whatever was left in the carb.

Heres a old trick for cleaning out the idle circuit in your carb,pinch off the rubber fuel line going to the fuel pump then run the carb out of gas...get a can of superx non clornated brake cleaner cleans carbs vary vary well,fill the vent tubes in the venturys,this will fill the float bowls with the brake cleaner..leave it sit and soak for a whyle..un pinch the fuel line and rev the engine to clear out the brake cleaner rev the engine 3-4000 rpm and snap the choke shut almost stalling the engine(do this several times) this will suck any crap thats in the idle circuit out and walla it should run smooth again...