Restoration '86 DONZI CLASSIC 22 (2+3)

[BADABINGJR]

Hi fellas,

New member here. Amazing forum you've got here. Anyway, I've just undertaken a restoration project of the above referenced boat. This boat has been in my family since new. My father bought in 1986 and we used it heavily for 10 years. Then we moved onto bigger (not necessarily better things) and neglected her for some time. Now I would like to bring her back to her former glory.

She is red (white deck with red stripe, red hull sides) equipped with a Mercruiser 454 330HP, Borg-Warner Velvet Drive Transmission and TRS or (TR?) Drive. She is in rough shape and I am going to need as much help as possible in locating the parts. I want to keep her as original as possible.

I am going to focus on the vitals to get her running asap so I can use her this season and then I'll go for some nice finishing touches.

Engine:

First things first, I am relatively certain the block is cracked due to poor winterization (thanks dad) so I am looking for a rebuilt longblock or complete drop in motor. I'd like to be in the $2500 - $3000 range.

The block casting # is 14015445. My research shows this is an 1978-1990 production with a 2-piece rear main seal. However, it could be a 2-bolt or 4-bolt. Does anyone know which it is or how to tell before I yank the motor?

Also, what other power options do I have? What other motors will hook up to the Borg-Warner?

Interior:

I need new seats all the way around. The wood is rotted in the fronts (I still have the original mounting hardware) and the upholstery on the rears is all brittle and cracked and the cushions inside are nasty. Where can I find replacements that will look like the original (white with red piping with snaps for the rears)

The original red snap in carpet is also M.I.A. (thanks again, dad). Where can I find that as well.

Windshield:

The original windshild is made of some kind of smoked plastic fastened to the hull with black metal screws and these black plastic washers. The sides of the windshield are intact but the center portion is busted (not sure who to thank on that one) Is a replacement center piece available, I'd just as soon replace the whole thing too. I need the washers and the screws too ( Last time I needed to buy those washers, Al Gore hadn't invented the internet yet)

I guess thats about it for now, I need lots more but who is going to read a post this long :)

[CHACHI]

Welcome to the board. For any interior or carpet, call Bob at Bilt-Rite Upholstery in Roanoke VA, 1-540-981-1711. He will have all the original patterns for a complete interior. Ken

[mrfixxall]

Hi fellas,
New member here. Amazing forum you've got here. Anyway, I've just undertaken a restoration project of the above referenced boat. This boat has been in my family since new. My father bought in 1986 and we used it heavily for 10 years. Then we moved onto bigger (not necessarily better things) and neglected her for some time. Now I would like to bring her back to her former glory.
She is red (white deck with red stripe, red hull sides) equipped with a Mercruiser 454 330HP, Borg-Warner Velvet Drive Transmission and TRS or (TR?) Drive. She is in rough shape and I am going to need as much help as possible in locating the parts. I want to keep her as original as possible.
I am going to focus on the vitals to get her running asap so I can use her this season and then I'll go for some nice finishing touches.
Engine:
First things first, I am relatively certain the block is cracked due to poor winterization (thanks dad) so I am looking for a rebuilt longblock or complete drop in motor. I'd like to be in the $2500 - $3000 range.
The block casting # is 14015445. My research shows this is an 1978-1990 production with a 2-piece rear main seal. However, it could be a 2-bolt or 4-bolt. Does anyone know which it is or how to tell before I yank the motor?
Also, what other power options do I have? What other motors will hook up to the Borg-Warner?
Interior:
I need new seats all the way around. The wood is rotted in the fronts (I still have the original mounting hardware) and the upholstery on the rears is all brittle and cracked and the cushions inside are nasty. Where can I find replacements that will look like the original (white with red piping with snaps for the rears)
The original red snap in carpet is also M.I.A. (thanks again, dad). Where can I find that as well.
Windshield:
The original windshild is made of some kind of smoked plastic fastened to the hull with black metal screws and these black plastic washers. The sides of the windshield are intact but the center portion is busted (not sure who to thank on that one) Is a replacement center piece available, I'd just as soon replace the whole thing too. I need the washers and the screws too ( Last time I needed to buy those washers, Al Gore hadn't invented the internet yet)
I guess thats about it for now, I need lots more but who is going to read a post this long :)
welcome to the board,,,from what ive heard built rite is the guy to talk to for the interior and carpet ..a bit pricy tho..as for the engine its gonna be hard to find a pre 86 marine engine for under $3000 or mabe talk to cuda because hes talking about mabe putting a 496 in his 22 and his 454 is a turn key motor.;.. or just find a pre 86 chevy truck block and transfer all the parts to that block..i suggest to get rid of the cast crank and the p p rods that the 330hp has and throw a decent set of forged pistons in it also...the round port heads are better for torque but the intake valves can be opened up from a 219 to a 221 intake valve which will make more power...im me and ill give you the rundown on a 468 i just did that made 475 hp on pump gas and is vary reliable.....

good luck.

[gcarter]

Welcome and good luck with your 22.
While you have the engine out, you might entertain the idea of replacing the fuel tank. Maybe it doesn't need it now but it will eventually (after all, it's 20 years old).
Another thing to look into is the cockpit floor support system. If you have cracks in the gelcoat on either side of the center hatch in front of the rear seat or transverse cracks behind the seat pedistals, maybe some consideration is in order.
Again, good luck.

[farmer tx]

For your windshield I would try Design Plastics 701 N. Andrews Ft Lauderdale, Fl. 33311. 954 462 1510 They did my windshield and I was very satisfied.
MOP (Phil) on the registry has the grommets.

[Cuda]

If things work out the way I hope, I'll have a perfectly fine running 454/330 horse complete drop in engine. I should know within the week. As far as tanks go, I had myself mine was leaking because I could smell gas. After pulling the deck, there was nothing wrong with my tank, I think it was coming from around the sending unit. Since I had to pull the deck anyway, and what I needed done was 2 grand, I'm replacing the tank anyway.

[MOP]

Welcome to the fray & $$ madness, I like Cuda have an 86 22 mine is a SB. You can bolt any GM block in as the bell housing bolt pattern is all the same, so you have a ton of options. You can do a mouse motor and save on fuel or do a BB and go fast. When you get around to playing with the windshield like Kenny said I have the grommets.

Phil

[BADABINGJR]

thanks for all the help fellas. you guys are great. i def have somequestions in response to each of your replies. i'll address them individually. please pardon my newbieness, i haven't got all the lingo down yet :)

[BADABINGJR]

Welcome and good luck with your 22.
While you have the engine out, you might entertain the idea of replacing the fuel tank. Maybe it doesn't need it now but it will eventually (after all, it's 20 years old).
Another thing to look into is the cockpit floor support system. If you have cracks in the gelcoat on either side of the center hatch in front of the rear seat or transverse cracks behind the seat pedistals, maybe some consideration is in order.
Again, good luck.
thanks for the advice, there are some cracks around the center hatch and various other cracks in the corners ofthe cockpit area. they've been there since i last used the boat in the 90's. i do notice alot of creaking as i walk around the cockpit area. what specifically do you recommend i do about it?

also, as far as i can tell, the fuel tank is under the bow, how is that related to the engine being removed? how can i get the tank out? does the whole deck lift off the boat from stem to stern or does just the bow portion come off?

[BADABINGJR]

For your windshield I would try Design Plastics 701 N. Andrews Ft Lauderdale, Fl. 33311. 954 462 1510 They did my windshield and I was very satisfied.
MOP (Phil) on the registry has the grommets.

the shape, color, and material of the windshield in your signature pic looks identical to mine. how much did that run you? also, the holes in the hull where the screws fasten in are all stripped out, whats a good fix for that?

[BADABINGJR]

If things work out the way I hope, I'll have a perfectly fine running 454/330 horse complete drop in engine. I should know within the week. As far as tanks go, I had myself mine was leaking because I could smell gas. After pulling the deck, there was nothing wrong with my tank, I think it was coming from around the sending unit. Since I had to pull the deck anyway, and what I needed done was 2 grand, I'm replacing the tank anyway.

how do you pull the deck? is it a do-it-yourself kind of thing or do i need a pro. i have access to booms, forklifts, extra hands, etc. my father is also a mechanical genius, so just point me in the right direction. also, when i pull the motor, should i disconnect from the tranny and leave the tranny in or pull it out while still conncted to the trans? if i take it with the trans, do i need to do anything with the drive?

whats are the details on your 454 engine? year, hours, cooling system, etc? what do you want for it?

[BADABINGJR]

Welcome to the fray & $$ madness, I like Cuda have an 86 22 mine is a SB. You can bolt any GM block in as the bell housing bolt pattern is all the same, so you have a ton of options. You can do a mouse motor and save on fuel or do a BB and go fast. When you get around to playing with the windshield like Kenny said I have the grommets.
Phil


ok, i am assuming SB=Small Block and BB=Big Block, but what is a mouse motor? Can a 1996 Merc 502c.i./HP500 hook up there with out too much hassle. Pops is repowering his 42' Formula SR-419 (triple HP 500's) and he has generously offered me the best of whats coming out, what do you think?

I def need the screws and the grommets. how do we deal on that?

[gcarter]

thanks for the advice, there are some cracks around the center hatch and various other cracks in the corners ofthe cockpit area. they've been there since i last used the boat in the 90's. i do notice alot of creaking as i walk around the cockpit area. what specifically do you recommend i do about it?
also, as far as i can tell, the fuel tank is under the bow, how is that related to the engine being removed? how can i get the tank out? does the whole deck lift off the boat from stem to stern or does just the bow portion come off?
Here's how it's done;
http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=36703&page=1&pp=15
It's so much easier to do it all at one time. With the deck off, everything is accessible.
The cockpit floor generally needs to be supported in a better manner rather than just fix the cracks.
I'll be happy to answer any specific questions. My email addy is below.

[CHACHI]

Badabingjr, where in NYS do you live? Yoy should try to make up to the Thousand Islands July 14-16 as there will be a Donzi owners meet at A-Bay. There will be a lot of educated people there to drink with. Look under events and gatherings for info. Ken

[mrfixxall]

ok, i am assuming SB=Small Block and BB=Big Block, but what is a mouse motor? Can a 1996 Merc 502c.i./HP500 hook up there with out too much hassle. Pops is repowering his 42' Formula SR-419 (triple HP 500's) and he has generously offered me the best of whats coming out, what do you think?
I def need the screws and the grommets. how do we deal on that?

I would put a bb back in the boat..converting to a sb you will have to reglass & gel the transm to relocate the exhaust holes....I would go with one of those hp 500..Just make sure he gives you the flywheel and the new designed seapump...whyle you have the engine out i woulsd also have thebw trans rebuilt because of the xtra ponys the hp 500 puts out may ware out the trans..

[MOP]

Windshield grommets in link below.

Phil

http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=33502

[Cuda]

how do you pull the deck? is it a do-it-yourself kind of thing or do i need a pro. i have access to booms, forklifts, extra hands, etc. my father is also a mechanical genius, so just point me in the right direction. also, when i pull the motor, should i disconnect from the tranny and leave the tranny in or pull it out while still conncted to the trans? if i take it with the trans, do i need to do anything with the drive?
whats are the details on your 454 engine? year, hours, cooling system, etc? what do you want for it?
Here's the link to my deck off thread.
http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=45332
The engine is a stock 454, 330 horse raw water cooled. I assume it's the origninal. It came from Michigan. I think the only time it's been in salt water was when I took it to Miami earlier this year.

I'd definetely go with the the engine your dad is offering. :)

[Cuda]

Many people on this board have pulled the deck themselves. Gcarter did it with his Minx, and George ain't no spring chicken! :)

[Cuda]

ok, i am assuming SB=Small Block and BB=Big Block, but what is a mouse motor? Can a 1996 Merc 502c.i./HP500 hook up there with out too much hassle. Pops is repowering his 42' Formula SR-419 (triple HP 500's) and he has generously offered me the best of whats coming out, what do you think?
I def need the screws and the grommets. how do we deal on that?
Ask pops what he's going to do with the other two Hp's in case my deal falls through.

[gcarter]

Gcarter did it with his Minx, and George ain't no spring chicken! :)
You young whippersnapper you!!!
Seriously, it isn't hard to do.

[BADABINGJR]

you guys are great, a real riot.

minx, I'm out of NYC. usually in and around the south shore and sometimes in the sound. if i can get her running by then, i'll def be there.

gcarter, thanks for all the advice, i'm sure we'll be talking lots.

cuda, i'll keep you abreast on the status of the HP's.

Here's the question of the moment boys... it seems that I can buy a mercruiser reman longblock for about $6K (i have to each the $1200 core charge) or a can get a NEW GM Marine longblock for about $4K. Problem is the new engine does not have a provision for a mechanical fuel pump (must use electric) and the rear main seal is 1 piece. the original is 2 piece. pops says stay away from the electric fuel pump, don't need the hassle of wiring or the risk of fire, what do you guys think? also, is the 1 piece or 2 piece situation an isssue? finally, can you point me to a thread about a procedure to yank the motor? i'd like to do it this weekend. thanks fellas...

[farmer tx]

BadaB, The windshield will set you back about 2 grand, not including shipping. You could use the next larger screw and a nice stainless finish washer. That is what I did on my 22-C.http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=33502

Also merc makes a seawater pump with a boss attached for a mechanical fuel pump for the gen V and gen VI engines.

[gcarter]

Besides, nothing wrong w/an electric fuel pump, just use an oil pressure activated electric safety switch.

[BADABINGJR]

Hey Guys,

I Made Some Nice Progress Over The Weekend, Almost Got The Engine Ready To Come Out And Got The Drive Pulled Off. The Pistons For The Drive Tilt Were Frozen Solid. Had To Take Them Off To Lower The Drive. I Brought Them To Work And Our 10,000lb Hydraulic Press Couldn't Budge Them, Almost Twisted Them Into Pretzels. Anyway, A Few Questions If You Will;

Which Drive Do I Have? I Know Its Either A Tr Or Trs. The Boat Was Built With The 454-330hp Merc, Borg-warner Velvet Drive, And The Drive. How Can I Tell Which I've Got? Where Should I Get It Rebuilt?

On Pulling The Engine, Should I Do It With Or Without The Trans Attached? Now That I Have The Drive Off, How Can I Get The Driveshaft (looks Like A Cv Joint) That Is Sticking Out The Transom Off? I Figured It Just Pulled Out But It Won't Budge.

[farmer tx]

I pulled my engine without the trans attached. The drive shaft should have come out with the drive. How did you get the drive off without pulling the drive shaft? Can you post a rear view of the transom assembly. If the shaft is stuck and you have the drive off you may be able to pull the shaft and gimble bearing as one piece with a big slide hammer. I just had my drive off yesterday to check the gimble and trans bearing and the drive shaft came out with the drive. Puting it back in its like trying to push a limp noodle into a soda straw. I am guessing since it is a 86' with a 330 that it is a TRS. It could be an 85' model sold as an 86'. Most 86's with the 330 had Alpha 1 drives with 1:36 gears.
What is the HIN number molded into the hull under the rear starboard rubrail?

[BADABINGJR]

Velvet drive, big block,in an 18??? Holy lack o space in the front batman....

its a 22

[BADABINGJR]

I pulled my engine without the trans attached. The drive shaft should have come out with the drive. How did you get the drive off without pulling the drive shaft? Can you post a rear view of the transom assembly. If the shaft is stuck and you have the drive off you may be able to pull the shaft and gimble bearing as one piece with a big slide hammer. I just had my drive off yesterday to check the gimble and trans bearing and the drive shaft came out with the drive. Puting it back in its like trying to push a limp noodle into a soda straw. I am guessing since it is a 86' with a 330 that it is a TRS. It could be an 85' model sold as an 86'. Most 86's with the 330 had Alpha 1 drives with 1:36 gears.
What is the HIN number molded into the hull under the rear starboard rubrail?

i think it was ordered specifically with the TRS drive. How can you tell a TRS from a TR? Anyway, maybe I was using the wrong terminology, the part that i am trying to get out is called the universal joint, (see # 31 in the diagram).

Any idea where I can get the drive rebuilt?

[BADABINGJR]

Alright fellas,

i got the engine out on sunday. It went pretty smoothly save for one little glitch. I missed a hidden bolt between the engine and the bellhousing on the trans, and i snappped off a piece of the bell housing. it appears to be made from aluminium. can i have it welded back on or something or do i have to replace the bell housing? where can i get a replacement bell housing?

also, i still can't get the universal joint (drive shaft) sticking out of the transom out of the transmission. am i missing something, or should i just tie it to the back of my f-150 and mash the gas....

[Sofa King]

Farmer TEXAS, What's wit da calculator on da dash? Do you work deals on your boat? LOL, Gotta lub us TEXANS! No wonder we have da best economy in da country.

YEEEEEEHAWWWW!
Arip

[farmer tx]

A-rip, Thats an antique GPS the calculations are to the right. Where's Big Pimpin when you need him:bonk:

[BADABINGJR]

hey guys, been away for awhile.... still need help of course but just wanted to post a couple of pics for you guys

[BADABINGJR]

can anyone tell me how this shaft is supposed to come out.... basically, i'm just looking for someone to give me the green light to just yank the hell out of it.

[BADABINGJR]

searched the post on this, doesn't seem to be too much info on this....

i want to replace the skeg on my TRS. I have a welder in-house with a tig, who'd i'd like to do the job. my questions are;

1. where can i find a replacement skeg (kit) ?

2. what tips or tricks do i need to know. from what i read, there is an isue about disassembling the whole lower unit. is that becuase the heat will melt seals, etc...? any tricks to get around that?

[BADABINGJR]

when switching the intake manifold over from my blown motor to my remanned longblock, i decided that the conidtion of the manifold was not as good as I had hoped. I now find myself faced with replacing the manifold and the carb as well. the motor is a bone stock 454 with a rochester quadrajet. any suggestions on what i should use as a replacement? merc still sells the intake but the carb no longer....